Love for Sisko?

[AdmiralMemo]

I'm planning on making my first forays into the world of Star Trek books with A Stitch in Time, since that one was written by Andrew Robinson himself. I'll probably branch out after that, so I'll add Hollow Men to my list of future books to read. Thanks!

I haven't read A Stitch in Time myself, but I have read "The Calling," also written by Andrew Robinson, which is its sequel short story in the Prophecy and Change omnibus. I'd like to fore-warn you that if the Garak in A Stitch in Time is anything like the Garak in "The Calling," then you need to realize that this is not the Garak you remember from the show. Andrew has changed a bit in the intervening years since playing Garak, and he has taken the character with him in his writing. That's not to say that this Garak is bad, or anything. It's just not quite the same Garak. It's an older, different Garak who has had more life experience and has re-evaluated where his life is taking him. (This is similar to the fact that the Ezri Dax who commands the USS Aventine in the DS9 Relaunch series is not quite the same Ezri Dax we met in Season 7 of DS9.) Oh, you still see the character and the original traits underneath, but if you're just expecting a straight-up story about another adventure of the Garak you knew, you may be disappointed. This is a Garak who's been through the Dominion War and has had time to reflect. This is a Garak from after the near-destruction of Cardassia by the Dominion. So, just prepare yourself for some of the changes to his character that his experiences have led him through.

If you do want a straight-up "Garak you knew from the series" story, then Hollow Men is perfect.

Also, if you want a good look into Cardassian culture in general, I recommend The Never-Ending Sacrifice. It's a look at what goes on on Cardassia Prime through the eyes of a Cardassian orphan that was left on Bajor, after his father, who thought he was dead, finds out he's alive and takes him back "home."

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

I'm planning on making my first forays into the world of Star Trek books with A Stitch in Time, since that one was written by Andrew Robinson himself. I'll probably branch out after that, so I'll add Hollow Men to my list of future books to read. Thanks!

I haven't read A Stitch in Time myself, but I have read "The Calling," also written by Andrew Robinson, which is its sequel short story in the Prophecy and Change omnibus. I'd like to fore-warn you that if the Garak in A Stitch in Time is anything like the Garak in "The Calling," then you need to realize that this is not the Garak you remember from the show. Andrew has changed a bit in the intervening years since playing Garak, and he has taken the character with him in his writing. That's not to say that this Garak is bad, or anything. It's just not quite the same Garak. It's an older, different Garak who has had more life experience and has re-evaluated where his life is taking him. (This is similar to the fact that the Ezri Dax who commands the USS Aventine in the DS9 Relaunch series is not quite the same Ezri Dax we met in Season 7 of DS9.) Oh, you still see the character and the original traits underneath, but if you're just expecting a straight-up story about another adventure of the Garak you knew, you may be disappointed. This is a Garak who's been through the Dominion War and has had time to reflect. This is a Garak from after the near-destruction of Cardassia by the Dominion. So, just prepare yourself for some of the changes to his character that his experiences have led him through.

If you do want a straight-up "Garak you knew from the series" story, then Hollow Men is perfect.

Also, if you want a good look into Cardassian culture in general, I recommend The Never-Ending Sacrifice. It's a look at what goes on on Cardassia Prime through the eyes of a Cardassian orphan that was left on Bajor, after his father, who thought he was dead, finds out he's alive and takes him back "home."

I'm pretty prepared for a less fun Garak, since the book's cover features him looking serious and introspective. I really liked Robinson's comments on how he interpreted the character, so I'm interested in seeing where he takes him.

Of course reading more about good old sneaky, quipping Garak will be fun too.

So, I thought Ezri had a lot of potential as a character, and I was more intrigued by the Bajorans and Cardassians than any other Star Trek cultures because they were less easily summed up in a sentence or two than the rest were. (Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, it's just nice to have more complexity sometimes.) And so now you have me interested in The Never Ending Sacrifice and the books in the Relaunch series that feature Ezri. Dammit! I have video game forums to be complaining on, I don't have time for all these books!

 

[DrOswald]

I get why DS9 is some people's favorite. You don't get the same experience going back and watching on Netflix as you do when you grow up watching Star Trek week to week. DS9 wasn't exactly in the "DVR age" but if your formative years had that show in it (and not your post college years like me) then it could easily be a your favorite. And there's nothing wrong with that. Some people (it seems awfully prevalent here on the escapist) think "nostalgia" is some kind of bad word. Like it's not a legitimate reason to like something. Most of the stuff we talk about here exists as a hobby, pastime, or favored activity (books, tv, movies, and of course games.) And if ENJOYMENT is the point of these things (and it is) then why is it a BAD thing when nostalgia makes someone enjoy something MORE?

But that's a little off topic. If that's why DS9 gets "best Star Trek" from someone then sure, it makes a difference. I personally never got DS9. First and foremost Star Trek was about exploration and discovery. And sorry, YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN A SPACE STATION. It doesn't move, yes "the wormhole" but still. Just go with a new sci fi IP and I'd be ok with it. It would have been a decent sci-fi show about a space station that wasn't as good as Babylon 5.

DS9 is my favorite, and it is the only one (besides enterprise) that I didn't watch growing up. I first watched it a couple years ago, about 3 years into college. There is no nostalgia for me, and I think it is the best.

I think the difference is in how we see Star Trek. For me, exploration and discovery are interesting, but the best of science fiction is always going to be about character interaction and interesting conflict. You are right that every other Star Trek series was first and foremost about exploration and discovery, and that is why DS9 is the best. It had the most developed alien races, it had the most interesting characters (with the exception of data, who is the best character) and it had the best conflicts.

It probably also helps a lot that I like Avery Brooks acting style.

 

[Wereduck]

My gripe is less with Ben Sisko then it is with Avery Brooks. If Steven Williams or Andre Braugher had been cast in the role then The Dominion would have looked for someone else with whom to fuck -zero perspiration baby.

EDIT: Also, +1 to what Smiley Face said below. It's not just a matter of projecting menace, Williams & Braugher can act.

 

[Smiley Face]

I love DS9, definitely my favourite of the Star Trek Series. It's got a great ensemble dynamic, something that TOS never bothered with with their Three Musketeers, and that TNG never quite nailed down. It doesn't just return to the status quo at the end of each episode, and being in one spot allows for intrigues, plot arcs, and interesting recurring characters. Almost all of the main cast is fantastic - Odo, Dax, Worf, Quark, O'Brien, Bashir, Kira, etc., and they have some of the best recurring characters in the series - Garak, Dukat, etc.

But I HATE Sisko. He's one of the few things about that series that I hate. First and foremost, as an actor - his performance is almost always off, his cadence, the inappropriate intensity, the faked joviality (Have you heard him laugh?) - maybe it's just the fact that the rest of the cast and supporting cast is, relatively speaking, so much better, that brings it out - but I can't stand it. And now that I think of it, that criticism colours pretty much the rest of my reasons for disliking him as well. I mean, with the stories involving him, there are some good ideas - there's the Oracle schtick, and his transition to come to terms with that, there's the fact that he shows a more human, less idealistic side than the other Captains, what with his kid and his ability to make wartime decisions, his ability to cooperate with various factions while obviously not trusting them - but ultimately, to me, many of them fall flat because, as an actor, Brooks can't pull it off in a way which makes me think "What an interesting character development", just "wow, I cannot stand this guy".

 

[AdmiralMemo]

And so now you have me interested in The Never Ending Sacrifice and the books in the Relaunch series that feature Ezri. Dammit! I have video game forums to be complaining on, I don't have time for all these books!

Sorry about that. You're just in the same boat I am now... So many books and games calling me!

Books I've read:

Books I have yet to read:

Actually, add about half a dozen more to that "yet to read" image, since I've bought some more since then.

(I wonder how many books out of those images people can name, despite being barely visible.)

 

[Mid Boss]

We're sorry that you don't find our show entertaining. We officially allow you to not watch. Hope that helps.

Masterful! I gotta use this some time. XD

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I'd like to see what people thought of the medical officers on each show. That would be a very interesting debate. McCoy, Crusher, Bashir, or the Doctor (screw Phlox you genocidal lunatic).

I really found myself drawn to Bashir after the first episode of Star Trek that made me physically ill, The Quickening.

Recap: Bashir and Dax travel to a planet in the Gamma Quadrant that is suffering from a blight caused by a Dominion bio weapon deployed two hundred years earlier. Bashir wants to stay behind and find a cure for the people, being drawn to a pregnant lady who wants to volunteer for his tests. The healer on the planet knows that once a person's condition has "quickened", they will die soon, so he mercy kills them. Bashir still tries to cure the disease, but his actions only end up causing the blight to rapidly accelerate, causing his entire medical center to start bursting veins across their bodies and having seizures, until all but the pregnant lady have died.

He stays behind, determined to find a cure, and at least keep the lady alive until her baby comes. She dies giving birth to the child, but the antidote had been absorbed through the lady's placenta, rendering her child immune. While Bashir can't save the people already infected, he gives them a future that their children can live without the disease.

Back on the station, he continues for hours, looking for ways to find a cure for the others, with no success. He doesn't stop however.

That episode really struck me. The aftermath of WMDs and their affects on generations long after the initial incident is so reminiscent of the atomic fallout from the Japan bombings. And the disease itself was extremely unsettling.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

I actually found Phlox funny and likable. McCoy was the perfect good-old Southern doctor. Crusher was your friend, but didn't lose sight of the big picture when it was crunch time. Bashir was grating on me at first, but he started growing up and became quite good. The EMH was a good character as one of the "outside characters" that Star Trek is known for. Also, you're forgetting about Dr. Pulaski from second-season TNG. (Though maybe for good reason! :-D)

Out of all, if I had to choose, I'd pick the EMH as the best doctor.

 

[wulfy42]

Ds9 was my favorite star trek series, followed by Next Gen (Warf is probably my favorite over all character).

As far as captains are concerned, I didn't like Picard much at first but he grew on me, and eventually surpassed Kirk, but Sisko won by a large margin. I couldn't stand Janeway and the guy from enterprise (Scot bacula's char) sucked as well (could only watch 3-4 episodes before giving up on the series all together.

Next gen really had alot of great characters though, and was pretty awesome when it came out...but.....I missed episodes of that series. I didn't miss ONE episode of DS9 and I didn't have a DVR or anything like that...I was working and going to school and made sure I always got home in time to watch the show.

I can count the number of shows I have been that interested in on one hand.

So Ds9 is an easy winner for me. I'm about to watch the whole series over again with netflix...with my wife. She has never seen it...and I have not watched any of it in over 10 years.

God I love netflix

 

[Mr_Terrific]

I see we're bringing up lying to the Romulans again. On NOOOOO, Sisko lied to a bunch of pointy eared Hitlers. IT'S THE F***ING ROMULANS! LOL. Can you blame him for lying to the Romulans. Picard basically lied to them what with sneaking into Romulan space to search for Spock. Watch those few episodes in TNG and tell me you feel bad for the poor Romulans.

So let me tell you something about Picard. He pussed up and didn't do what needed to be done with the Borg. He had a Borg and a plan to shut them all down but was too self righteous to do what need doing, thus causing the extinction of god knows how many civilizations...but that happened off screen, so it's not as bad as lying to the dickbag Romulans...who were scheming and plotting with THE DOMINION!!

What's interesting about this lie and Garrock fabricating the evidence...sprinkled with a little murder..is that it was all for the greater good, and it showed for the first time that Humans are not this shining beacon of light and goodness, but a species that willing to get down in the dirt with the Klingons and Kardashians...I mean the Cardassians.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

I see all the hate for Enterprise. I say that if you started watching it from the beginning and didn't like it, then ignore Seasons 1-3 and watch Season 4. You'll find it much, much better. If they'd gotten the Season 4 writers back in Season 1, they wouldn't have lost their fanbase.

 

[dharmaBum0]

You are the worst debaters of all time. Everything is sloppily done, you seem to have very limited knowledge about the material you debate on, and you come across as extremely unprofessional and a little mentally challenged. This is not limited to just this debate, but includes any debate I've seen you do.

Thank you for actually providing insight on the background of how you prepare for the episode, and explain how little you actually do.

We're sorry that you don't find our show entertaining. We officially allow you to not watch. Hope that helps.

Well, that's a relief. Here I was, actually feeling a bit embarrassed for these boys over how awful this series is.