I have heard of Lovecraft before but I have never really made an effort to look into it. This thread piqued my interest; I might consider looking into it some more myself. I'm learning new things everyday.
Lovecraft is not really scary.
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Beautifully put, and I've never even read any Lovecraft, or like horror stories much, but this makes me want to.Ordinaryundone said:
Only experience I've had with Lovecraftian tales is the game Call of Cthulhu, which was an excellent game btw.
As others have said, times have changed. I agree with that, for the most part.
Lovecraft's writing does hold up, though. They're still wonderful stories... maybe a little melodramatic... but wonderful nonetheless. And if some of them seem cliché by today's standards, just remember that it's because people have been using Lovecraft as inspiration. He was in a class of his own in his own time.
If you want a truly good scare from a modern author, might I suggest Thomas Ligotti? Unlike other authors who try to make you afraid of the dark or a monster or the unknown... Ligotti makes you fear your own existence.
Lovecraft's writing does hold up, though. They're still wonderful stories... maybe a little melodramatic... but wonderful nonetheless. And if some of them seem cliché by today's standards, just remember that it's because people have been using Lovecraft as inspiration. He was in a class of his own in his own time.
If you want a truly good scare from a modern author, might I suggest Thomas Ligotti? Unlike other authors who try to make you afraid of the dark or a monster or the unknown... Ligotti makes you fear your own existence.
Yknow what Ive been mulling it over some more and I believe the biggest flaw is that his works combine giant kaiju monsters but bonks you over the skull not so subtlety with nihilism philosophies. Im just sure theres a better way about it. I mean I believe the problem is the delivery such as him explaining/talking to much about how horrible said monsters by characters(humans) who arent really your average people combined with the fact that the monsters dont do shit and are blobs and sea creatures.
In short, bark worse than bite.
In short, bark worse than bite.
Prolly been said already but I'm gonna say it anyway.
OP you are right.
Lovecraft is freaking old.
It's reasonable modern audiences would find the style a drag, I do... but I still dig the whole mythos.
The mythos is sound, it's vast and rich and very interesting.
Plenty of modern writers putting out good Lovecraftian stuff, then there's all the meta crap with the various "real" necronomicons and that whole scene.
Plenty of better writers than Lovecraft have written mythos stuff through the ages.
It's really evolved into something greater than just one dudes writing... he may have had the ideas but that doesn't mean his interpretation was "the best".
It's become more of an experience in suspending disbelief with a lot of writers going for a sort of literary "found footage" style with excerpts and manuscripts presented as genuine discoveries.
The readers role is to buy into this myth for the duration of the reading.
If you have any fave horror authors from back in the 20th century (lol) I'm pretty sure you'll find many of them have written mythos stuff.
The really great, great mythos writing is hidden away in short stories by some real heavy hitters of horror.
There have been revivals and slumps through the years but I thought the 80s was the peak of the Lovecraft mythos in horror, in terms of quality and quantity.
...or if the whole Lovecraft mythology just isn't your kind of weird, but you still wouldn't mind some weird kinda like that.
The King In Yellow.
That's all I can say... Same rules apply, pay homage to the creator but get the real good stuff from talent who took up the mantle down through the years.
OP you are right.
Lovecraft is freaking old.
It's reasonable modern audiences would find the style a drag, I do... but I still dig the whole mythos.
The mythos is sound, it's vast and rich and very interesting.
Plenty of modern writers putting out good Lovecraftian stuff, then there's all the meta crap with the various "real" necronomicons and that whole scene.
Plenty of better writers than Lovecraft have written mythos stuff through the ages.
It's really evolved into something greater than just one dudes writing... he may have had the ideas but that doesn't mean his interpretation was "the best".
It's become more of an experience in suspending disbelief with a lot of writers going for a sort of literary "found footage" style with excerpts and manuscripts presented as genuine discoveries.
The readers role is to buy into this myth for the duration of the reading.
If you have any fave horror authors from back in the 20th century (lol) I'm pretty sure you'll find many of them have written mythos stuff.
The really great, great mythos writing is hidden away in short stories by some real heavy hitters of horror.
There have been revivals and slumps through the years but I thought the 80s was the peak of the Lovecraft mythos in horror, in terms of quality and quantity.
...or if the whole Lovecraft mythology just isn't your kind of weird, but you still wouldn't mind some weird kinda like that.
The King In Yellow.
That's all I can say... Same rules apply, pay homage to the creator but get the real good stuff from talent who took up the mantle down through the years.
IMHO, Lovecraftian stories generally completely fail to be scary. Yeah, big tentacled beasties that are going to awaken and devour all humanity bwah bwah bwah.
On the other hand, stories written by Lovecraft often were scary. He didn't use big monsters in lieu of actually writing a scary story, which alot of people do nowdays.
Aliens that had come from the unknown vastness of space to settle on a planet beyond Neptune isn't scary. Even aliens that come to Earth aren't scary, if they are here just to quarry stone that doesn't occur where they live, and go out of their way to avoid humans isn't scary. But they were scary when written by Lovecraft.
...
On the other hand, Lovecraft is also unsettling because of of his issues. Half his stories seem to be about good, clean humans being corrupted by interbreeding with degenerate races. Lovecraftian fish people do not fight for their rights as US citizens, and interbreeding does not happen after a human and alien hook up at a party.
Sure, product of his times and all, but that doesn't stop his stuff from seeming very dubious at times nowdays.
On the other hand, stories written by Lovecraft often were scary. He didn't use big monsters in lieu of actually writing a scary story, which alot of people do nowdays.
Aliens that had come from the unknown vastness of space to settle on a planet beyond Neptune isn't scary. Even aliens that come to Earth aren't scary, if they are here just to quarry stone that doesn't occur where they live, and go out of their way to avoid humans isn't scary. But they were scary when written by Lovecraft.
...
On the other hand, Lovecraft is also unsettling because of of his issues. Half his stories seem to be about good, clean humans being corrupted by interbreeding with degenerate races. Lovecraftian fish people do not fight for their rights as US citizens, and interbreeding does not happen after a human and alien hook up at a party.
Sure, product of his times and all, but that doesn't stop his stuff from seeming very dubious at times nowdays.
Ordinaryundone gets it. The Lovecraft world is frightening, but you have to get into the mythos and appreciate the whole that he is conveying. This isn't about a scary monster, no this is about the inevitable decline of all that is normal, all that we consider good. If you attract the attention of these entities, if your family line gets polluted, you are f*cked. If there are rats in the walls of an old estate you inherited, if you receive a correspondence from an old gentleman whose dogs keep dying, doom approaches.Ordinaryundone said:
A lot of horror isn't scary, but Lovecraft is very good at description and in creating a setting. I think Japanese horror is generally spookier, but Lovecraft is a wonderful mix of sci-fi and horror. Some of this tales, like the ancient world tales are also not meant to be scary, they are more travel pieces that take you on a journey.
Also if murder, rape and digestion by fish-men, ghouls or shoggoths doesn't scare you, I guess you must be tough. You might be just keeping distance and preventing yourself from getting into the material though.
Ha ha! Well put.thaluikhain said:
"interbreeding does not happen after a human and alien hook up at a party."
Lovecraft isn't mass effect.
An insect that cannot even begin to stop eating its little leaves to see what is the truth!ThePenguinKnight said:
I mean, horror aside, your judging a work of entertainment by modern standards.
It's like being a present day WWE fan and going back and watching a wrestling match from the 50's. Watch wrestling today, it's a LOT more actiony then it was in the 50s. More jumps, bigger moves, way less headlocks.
Also, Lovecraft scary is mostly scary just in the idea of it... like the whole idea of creatures that drive you insane is suppose to make you feel like an insignificant powerless human in the grand sheer scope of the universe. The horror is these are beings that can use/manipulate us and we don't even have the luxury of trying to rebel, because we'll go insane just looking at them. The horror is in the sheer hopelessness of it all.
It's like being a present day WWE fan and going back and watching a wrestling match from the 50's. Watch wrestling today, it's a LOT more actiony then it was in the 50s. More jumps, bigger moves, way less headlocks.
Also, Lovecraft scary is mostly scary just in the idea of it... like the whole idea of creatures that drive you insane is suppose to make you feel like an insignificant powerless human in the grand sheer scope of the universe. The horror is these are beings that can use/manipulate us and we don't even have the luxury of trying to rebel, because we'll go insane just looking at them. The horror is in the sheer hopelessness of it all.
I would be honoured to be eaten by Cthulhu.I say old chap said:
Also, anyone looking for a cosmic horror story which probably will make you lose control of your bowels, Saya no Uta is the best there is.
True. A lot of modern audiences are all about cheap scares. Stupid dead stupid teenager films.Waaghpowa said:
Mmmmyep. You hit the nail on the head with that one.Kaulen Fuhs said:
I loved the stories personally. The locales seemed to be the main characters, all with their own personalities and mysteries. I loved all of the stories taking place in the dreams of Randolph Carter, a recurring character in the mythos. Lovecraft is the only author whose writings have given me actual nightmares. Reading the stories really isn't that bad but thinking about them later and, having the situations and, locales fresh and simmering in the depths of the unconscious mind were enough to give me actual nightmares. I love the stories for that.
As much of a fan as I am Lovecraft, I have to admit I wasn't scared by many of his stories. That doesn't diminish his importance, however. As Neil Gaiman put it:
"HP Lovecraft built the stage on which most of the last century's horror fiction was performed"
And of course, when the stories were actually scary, they were REALLY scary. The Rats In the Walls, The Lurking Fear, The Colour Out Of Space, At The Mountains Of Madness and The Dreams In The Witch-House all creeped me out considerably.
"HP Lovecraft built the stage on which most of the last century's horror fiction was performed"
And of course, when the stories were actually scary, they were REALLY scary. The Rats In the Walls, The Lurking Fear, The Colour Out Of Space, At The Mountains Of Madness and The Dreams In The Witch-House all creeped me out considerably.
I think that one of the reasons Lovecraft's brand of horror is less "scary" today is that, sans monsters, the whole "we are tiny monkeys living on a tiny rock floating through a universe we do not (and probably cannot) understand" thing is something that we have basically come to terms with over the last century.Ordinaryundone said:
That's not to say that I don't think Lovecraft is worth a read - his stories are absolutely fascinating in terms of how influential they were over the SF and horror genres. IMO if you can get past the racism there's some really good writing there.
If you're taking Lovecraft on face value, then you're missing the point. Lovecraft's stories are simply about the fragility of human existence, the idea that around the corner something larger than you, something older and higher up the chain is waiting for you. Life is fragile, you are doomed, everything is for nought. That's Lovecraft. Cuts pretty close to the truth, that's the unsettling part.
I would say that if you were racist you would find them even scarier.Kahunaburger said:
I never really found them scary, maybe occasionally unsettling but as others have pointed out they were from a different time.
Think Orson Wells and War of the Worlds and compare it to stuff that goes on now.