Mac vs PC's - Not a poll

[Jernau]

This thread is a DISCUSSION. SO DISCUSS. I don't want to see any comments saying, "macs r gay lololol" READ this post and then answer it.

So anyway, me being a hipster douche bag and all, I use a mac. It's not the newest model, second newest, but it works fine. And so I was watching those hilarious "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" and it got me thinking. At this point in our modern era, it does not matter. Sure, 10 years ago it would be a HUGE difference in choosing between the two, but now, both sides are losing their definitive aspects. Any smart PC user won't get (m)any viruses, they'll use a decent graphics card, and they know how to do everything simply. Macs are introducing video games with Steam and whatnots, the awesome applications like imovie aren't free anymore and they're getting more compatible with programs. The discussion has been redundant. Regarding hardware, with macs, you'll be paying for quality, but any smart computer user will tell you that it's overpriced and it's purely for the aesthetics, but it's not considerably more powerful. The hardware with PC's can range from excellent to terrible, so it's really much more flexible. Comparing the two operating systems, they've gotten even more similar since snow leopard and windows 7, with nothing that's ever really bugged me from either side. Now don't get me wrong, these are two different computers, but all the arguments and debate over which is better has long passed the point of it mattering. Now a mature person will tell you that it never mattered, but shut up; my thread!

So, the question is: Which one do you use and how does it affect your usage of the computer? Could you do everything you normally do on your current computer on the other? Are there any myths that you would like to explain that aren't true?

P.S. I know nothing about Linux so that's why it wasn't discussed here but feel free to talk about it.

There is only one way I know to solve this, as highlighted in this video. Seriously watch it to the end, it's awesome.

http://www.wimp.com/newfight/

Fear them. Fear them all.

 

[AugustFall]

My dad uses macs because it's what the university uses and tbh I could never get used to them. I agree with what you are saying that macs and pc's are getting more and more a like but I still prefer Windows, even vista. I'm hopefully upgrading to 7 soon with a new computer.

 

[Acryllos]

I bought a [very overpriced] macbook pro for the program I'm going into (Graphic Design). The screens pretty damn nice, and I can just attach a usb mouse to it for working in photoshop and stuff. Personally, I don't like it very much for gaming. Not many choices of games (that I like), the ported version of audiosurf I have for it is less than adequate in performance and that whole multiple OS thing isn't working out for me. I at least have Starcraft 2 on it and it runs as well as it does on my not-so-great HP Desktop.

I definitely prefer gaming on my PC (but that's probably just a laptop vs desktop thing) and I find both OS to be pretty comfortable. Mac was easy to adjust to and I'm no computer expert so all that fancy customization jazz means little to me. Chances are I will use my macbook for my entire university career and then buy a Mac Pro when I get a job. As for my PC, I definitely want to replace that junk with a far better gaming rig (I sincerely regret buying HP instead of having my friend build me one) sometime next year.

So all in all, I take no sides in this "war". As far as I'm concerned both do certain jobs, and they do them well. Mac will always be for my graphic design work/video editing and Pc will always be my gaming rig (not that they can't switch roles).

Acryllos...signing out

 

[TehCookie]

I personally hate macs with a passion, I had to use one for the first time yesterday and it was a huge WTF do I do? I was logged in as a different user as school and I didn't know now to log out, and I couldn't even find the mouse options (it was extremely unsensitive and I wanted to change it). Or any options for that matter. It took me a while to find a file browsing and I still couldn't find the harddrive, I know I'm an idiot especially when I was looking for a C: drive (or any letter really). It was just completely unfamiliar and unintuitive. I like there being words on my OS so I can read what things do, when the start bar says start that seems like a good place to click first. Then again I hate windows 7 to because it looks like a mac, but at least being windows I know what it can and cannot do and some of the basic are still there.

If I got use to a mac it might be different, but I don't like things you have to get use to. Where at an age where technology should be intuitive like they were 10 years ago. Half of it is I like reading, I don't understand hieroglyphics, what the fuck does that picture mean.

 

[Aeshi]

I Prefer OSX,the extra games isn't much of an advantage when you realize most of the games not on OSX can be summed up in one or more of the words "Shit(ty)" "Console" and "Port" and the few that aren't will be buried under a stream of pop-ups from Windows.

The fact that just about every anti-Apple/Mac argument I've ever heard can be summed up as "Macs are overpriced because <insert shitty reason that was false years ago and proves I'm just a mindless bandwagon-jumper has no idea what I'm talking about>" while not listing the advantages (either due to "forgetting" to add them or just plain lack of research) doesn't hurt either.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

If you're a gamer, and you only own a Mac, and you haven't set it up to dual-boot into Windows, then you are not in fact a gamer. Or rather, not a particularly voracious one, as Macs are not very good for gaming at all - if you play a lot of games, you aren't using a Mac to do it[footnote]Or if you are, you've paid way too much money for your "PC", because you've just put Windows on it and are running that to play your games.[/footnote]. Not due to hardware deficiencies necessarily, the issue is there are just not that many titles released each year that are available on the Mac - the sheer overwhelming majority of all games released for a computer system are Windows titles.

Now there are ways to run games in a non-native environment (things like Wine in Linux for example) and modern Macs are based on Intel hardware, which means they're x86 based and Windows can be loaded onto them now[footnote]The older Macs used Motorola-branded RISC processors, which were incompatible with traditional PC environments, as those had adopted the more general purpose (but potentially less efficient) x86 architecture.[/footnote], so if you have a Mac and you want to play games on it, you can get around the limitations your OS places on you by just not running it, but if you aren't technically savvy (or don't have a spare Windows license around or something), gaming on the Mac is limited to the comparative handful of titles available with Mac versions.

Things like the recent release of Steam are great news for folks who, for some reason or another, find themselves saddled with a Mac but still want to actually play games on it, but the titles that are now available are still just a drop in the ocean that is all the games you can find on the PC that aren't on the Mac. Clearly there isn't any reason Macs can't run those games, should anyone take the trouble to port them to the Mac OS, but for the most part nobody does anymore; Macs are, for all the recent success Apple has enjoyed, still a very small minority of computers in use compared to Windows PCs, and the platform itself isn't perceived as a particularly viable gaming system.

Gaming enthusiasts tend to be the sort who will build their own systems and comparison shop (we find concepts like "I have the second newest model" to be ridiculous - computers are conglomerations of components, not "models"), and anyone with the technical know-how to understand the hardware that goes into a decent gaming machine will know that, for the money, Macs are a horrible choice: Apple charges a significant premium for hardware that is, once you get past their "sleek" case designs, the exact same components you could find on a shelf for a fraction of the price Apple expects you to pay. You also have far fewer options, as Apple only writes drivers for the very limited selection of hardware they offer in their products and nothing else (top-down control is a big part of Apple's philosophy; the idea that a user could put together a Mac themselves is something that gets companies who try it sued into oblivion).

So in essence, if you bought a Mac specifically with the intention to use it to play games, you've paid too much money and you're the owner of a system that doesn't actually have a whole lot of games available for it. Nobody with common sense buys a Mac to be their "gaming computer", and the people who own them now are languishing in the "here be no games" wastelands; internet wags are fond of igniting the whole "PC gaming is dying" fallacy, but Mac gaming isn't dying because it was never alive in the first place.

If you own a Mac, you're pretty much a graphic designer, a hipster, or somebody who either doesn't know any better or simply doesn't care - gamers and Macs do not really go hand in hand.

[small]Note that here I'm discussing desktops, Apple makes fairly decent laptops and a lot of the 'issues' with Mac desktop hardware are less problematic when you're in the arena of portable computing, where the options are more limited no matter which platform you adopt.[/small]

 

[Jaded Scribe]

Macs are great for creative work, such as photo-editing, creating computer artwork, music/sound mixing, film editing, etc.

Please explain this. Every time there's a Mac Vs PC topic, this comes up. No-one ever justifies it. It's just "Macs is better at the photos, lol", and that's the end of it. Why? What makes them better?

Also, Mac Vs PC topic, lolololololololololololololol

First and foremost, the display of colors on a Mac is better, and closer to what you'll see when you print.

Second, is that Mac used a variety of psychologists in the development of features to make working with a mac more intuitive for non-techies to use, particularly for artists.

Adobe and Apple have a love/hate relationship, but the simple matter is that their products (which are at the forefront of the various arts industries) run much better on a Mac.

There is a lot of very good hardware compatibilities and tools not widely available on PC.

These and more are why Apple is the standard for the art industry, and when working at home, it's best to have the same devices as your work uses for compatibility. And if it's the industry standard, a freelancer, or someone working on their own would do well to use it.

 

[Sebenko]

First and foremost, the display of colors on a Mac is better, and closer to what you'll see when you print.

Second, is that Mac used a variety of psychologists in the development of features to make working with a mac more intuitive for non-techies to use, particularly for artists.

Adobe and Apple have a love/hate relationship, but the simple matter is that their products (which are at the forefront of the various arts industries) run much better on a Mac.

There is a lot of very good hardware compatibilities and tools not widely available on PC.

These and more are why Apple is the standard for the art industry, and when working at home, it's best to have the same devices as your work uses for compatibility. And if it's the industry standard, a freelancer, or someone working on their own would do well to use it.

That doesn't make much sense. Is it not possible to buy a good monitor for a PC?

Psychologists? what? To eject a CD you put it in the bin. That makes no sense.

And run better on a mac? Surely the money you'd save on not buying a mac could be put towards a more powerful PC.

Hardware tools and compatabilities? such as?

Yeah, using the same a work as at home is probably a good idea, though.

 

[zehydra]

Just a note: Macs = PCs. That is, a pc is a personal computer. Macs are personal computers.

Anyway, I use Windows Vista, and I've had it for over a year now, and it is quite reliable, haven't really had any OS issues come up since I got the service packs. The only things that bug me about Vista is how it wants to put everything in user's my doc folders by default, and when searching for files during a "load file" or "save file" window dialog, by default it has the directory display minimized, like on a mac (something I didn't really like when I used Macs).

 

[Jaded Scribe]

First and foremost, the display of colors on a Mac is better, and closer to what you'll see when you print.

Second, is that Mac used a variety of psychologists in the development of features to make working with a mac more intuitive for non-techies to use, particularly for artists.

Adobe and Apple have a love/hate relationship, but the simple matter is that their products (which are at the forefront of the various arts industries) run much better on a Mac.

There is a lot of very good hardware compatibilities and tools not widely available on PC.

These and more are why Apple is the standard for the art industry, and when working at home, it's best to have the same devices as your work uses for compatibility. And if it's the industry standard, a freelancer, or someone working on their own would do well to use it.

That doesn't make much sense. Is it not possible to buy a good monitor for a PC?

Psychologists? what? To eject a CD you put it in the bin. That makes no sense.

And run better on a mac? Surely the money you'd save on not buying a mac could be put towards a more powerful PC.

Hardware tools and compatabilities? such as?

Yeah, using the same a work as at home is probably a good idea, though.

Color display has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the monitor. It has to do with how color is processed and the code used to display it. They don't use the same color palettes, and Mac's palette is far superior to PC when you're working at the level of detail as an artist.

For the psychology, check out Apple Human Interface Guidelines. It details how Apple used the psychology behind human-computer interactions to build their interfaces. There's more to it than just ejecting stuff. A lot of the features really are better designed around how humans think. For a lot of us, who are avid PC users, we don't see it as much because we've been using PCs all our life.

Just having a more powerful PC doesn't help. It's how the programs are allowed to interact with the OS and communicate with the hardware. It's the same reason why the port of MS Office runs so poorly on a Mac, they can't utilize the computer in an optimized way as it can on a PC.

As for tools, I've rarely had to install hardware to a Mac the way you do a PC. Most hardware devices (that are designed for Mac, not just generic products) are completely plug-and-use. No installation, no drivers, none of that. For artists and musicians and the like, this is important due to the large amount of hardware they exchange between. Would suck having to install and/or update drivers for each and every one of them.


These qualities make Mac better for artists. It doesn't mean it's a better computer. Just a better tool for a job.

 

[zehydra]

Macs are great for creative work, such as photo-editing, creating computer artwork, music/sound mixing, film editing, etc.

Please explain this. Every time there's a Mac Vs PC topic, this comes up. No-one ever justifies it. It's just "Macs is better at the photos, lol", and that's the end of it. Why? What makes them better?

Also, Mac Vs PC topic, lolololololololololololololol

First and foremost, the display of colors on a Mac is better, and closer to what you'll see when you print.

Second, is that Mac used a variety of psychologists in the development of features to make working with a mac more intuitive for non-techies to use, particularly for artists.

Adobe and Apple have a love/hate relationship, but the simple matter is that their products (which are at the forefront of the various arts industries) run much better on a Mac.

There is a lot of very good hardware compatibilities and tools not widely available on PC.

These and more are why Apple is the standard for the art industry, and when working at home, it's best to have the same devices as your work uses for compatibility. And if it's the industry standard, a freelancer, or someone working on their own would do well to use it.

1) How can you make a statement that Macs have superior printing quality over PCs? There is a GREAT diversity amongst printers for non-mac computers, unless the mac printer has been tested against ALL of them and been shown to have better than ALL of them, you can't make a statement like that.

2)Artists != non-techies. I fail to see how bubbles on a bar at the bottom of the screen is more intuitive for a particular profession. (I do like that bar, btw. I downloaded it for my Vista)

3)I've used Adobe Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements on both machines, and I really have noticed no difference in my experience with it.

4)Explain

To be honest, I have several artistic programs on my laptop that are just as good as Apple's products. I'm not trying to say that Windows or Linux/Ubuntu are in any way better for artistic use than Mac OS, but I've never seen reasonable evidence that suggests that Mac is superior for artistic use.

 

[Sebenko]

Color display has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the monitor. It has to do with how color is processed and the code used to display it. They don't use the same color palettes, and Mac's palette is far superior to PC when you're working at the level of detail as an artist.

Really? Evidence? And a screenshot of a Mac with "Millions of colours" selected in them thar settings won't do.

For the psychology, check out Apple Human Interface Guidelines. It details how Apple used the psychology behind human-computer interactions to build their interfaces. There's more to it than just ejecting stuff. A lot of the features really are better designed around how humans think. For a lot of us, who are avid PC users, we don't see it as much because we've been using PCs all our life.

That's... interesting.

Just having a more powerful PC doesn't help. It's how the programs are allowed to interact with the OS and communicate with the hardware. It's the same reason why the port of MS Office runs so poorly on a Mac, they can't utilize the computer in an optimized way as it can on a PC.

I seriously doubt that photoshop will run better on a similarly priced Mac than on my PC.

As for tools, I've rarely had to install hardware to a Mac the way you do a PC. Most hardware devices (that are designed for Mac, not just generic products) are completely plug-and-use. No installation, no drivers, none of that. For artists and musicians and the like, this is important due to the large amount of hardware they exchange between. Would suck having to install and/or update drivers for each and every one of them.

That might have been true not so long ago, but Windows 7 is bitchin' for installing drivers and the like automatically.

These qualities make Mac better for artists. It doesn't mean it's a better computer. Just a better tool for a job.

I still don't trust Macs. They don't come in black.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

1) How can you make a statement that Macs have superior printing quality over PCs? There is a GREAT diversity amongst printers for non-mac computers, unless the mac printer has been tested against ALL of them and been shown to have better than ALL of them, you can't make a statement like that.

I believe Jaded Scribe it talking about Print as in the Print Industry not a bog-standard office printer... and Macs are way easier to colour calibrate to actual printing inks... which is why they're still industry standard in the printing industry... which is also why most people designing for print use macs... which is why Macs have a massive share of the graphic designing market... which is why most graphic design degrees will teach you on Macs (or at least if you major in designing for print).

 

[Jaded Scribe]

Color display has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the monitor. It has to do with how color is processed and the code used to display it. They don't use the same color palettes, and Mac's palette is far superior to PC when you're working at the level of detail as an artist.

Really? Evidence? And a screenshot of a Mac with "Millions of colours" selected in them thar settings won't do.

For the psychology, check out Apple Human Interface Guidelines. It details how Apple used the psychology behind human-computer interactions to build their interfaces. There's more to it than just ejecting stuff. A lot of the features really are better designed around how humans think. For a lot of us, who are avid PC users, we don't see it as much because we've been using PCs all our life.

That's... interesting.

Just having a more powerful PC doesn't help. It's how the programs are allowed to interact with the OS and communicate with the hardware. It's the same reason why the port of MS Office runs so poorly on a Mac, they can't utilize the computer in an optimized way as it can on a PC.

I seriously doubt that photoshop will run better on a similarly priced Mac than on my PC.

As for tools, I've rarely had to install hardware to a Mac the way you do a PC. Most hardware devices (that are designed for Mac, not just generic products) are completely plug-and-use. No installation, no drivers, none of that. For artists and musicians and the like, this is important due to the large amount of hardware they exchange between. Would suck having to install and/or update drivers for each and every one of them.

That might have been true not so long ago, but Windows 7 is bitchin' for installing drivers and the like automatically.

These qualities make Mac better for artists. It doesn't mean it's a better computer. Just a better tool for a job.

I still don't trust Macs. They don't come in black.

Palettes: Windows and Mac both use 256 colors as the basis of all colors that they can display. 216 of these are standards (also known as "safe" because they are compatible with browsers and cross-platforms). Mac and Windows do not use the same colors for the last 40 colors. The Mac palette is usually preferred by artists. Mac also allows for the remapping of the color palette, which makes changes to how colors interact. Windows does not allow this functionality.

My personal experience is that Photoshop does run better. It's not about how fast it runs, but in how you can maneuver and control the environment. Things like how the OS allows it to interact with other programs etc etc.

Yes, Windows 7 is bitchin. But Windows is only just now making headway in these areas, when Mac has been doing it all along.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

1) How can you make a statement that Macs have superior printing quality over PCs? There is a GREAT diversity amongst printers for non-mac computers, unless the mac printer has been tested against ALL of them and been shown to have better than ALL of them, you can't make a statement like that.

I believe Jaded Scribe it talking about Print as in the Print Industry not a bog-standard office printer... and Macs are way easier to colour calibrate to actual printing inks... which is why they're still industry standard in the printing industry... which is also why most people designing for print use macs... which is why Macs have a massive share of the graphic designing market... which is why most graphic design degrees will teach you on Macs (or at least if you major in designing for print).

^^This.

The color quality and differences have nothing to do with the output hardware (printers, monitors). It has to do with how the operating system defines these colors, and manipulates them.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

These qualities make Mac better for artists. It doesn't mean it's a better computer. Just a better tool for a job.

That depends on the artist and their chosen medium. Finding a 3D modeller who prefers Macs would be about as uncommon as finding a print artist who prefers PCs.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

These qualities make Mac better for artists. It doesn't mean it's a better computer. Just a better tool for a job.

That depends on the artist and their chosen medium. Finding a 3D modeller who prefers Macs would be about as uncommon as finding a print artist who prefers PCs.

True. I was just using "artist" as a very general term. I really don't want to deal with breaking it down to the exact mediums and varieties.

All this arguing, and all I was saying was that Macs and PCs are equally good. Neither is generally better, it all just depends on what you're doing, and how you intend to utilize it.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

All this arguing, and all I was saying was that Macs and PCs are equally good. Neither is generally better, it all just depends on what you're doing, and how you intend to utilize it.

The Mac's real strength is that it straddles the Industry Standard in several creative industries... and in some of those it's purely because the accepted industry standard software is Mac exclusive. Hell, even when the IS software changes to another, non-exclusive program most of that industry will stay with mac because by that time the entire pipeline from education to industry service to output is all geared towards the mac.

 

[Wicky_42]

First and foremost, the display of colors on a Mac is better, and closer to what you'll see when you print.

Second, is that Mac used a variety of psychologists in the development of features to make working with a mac more intuitive for non-techies to use, particularly for artists.

Adobe and Apple have a love/hate relationship, but the simple matter is that their products (which are at the forefront of the various arts industries) run much better on a Mac.

There is a lot of very good hardware compatibilities and tools not widely available on PC.

That all seems wrong and unsubstantiated.

Colour: http://don.blogs.smugmug.com/2007/02/14/this-is-your-mac-on-drugs/
"Turns out the right sRGB profile isn?t included by default on the Mac"
lol...

"The PC is a soldier. When Direktor Gates demands color #e3823c, PC responds ?Sir, Yes Sir!!? Color #e3823c looks identical on the PC whether it?s in a JPEG, GIF, PNG, CSS, or HTML.

The Mac Thinks Different. Color #e3823c is different on Macs. Except sometimes"
Sounds really reliable and useful for everything...

I think psychologists were more involved in the marketing campaign and product design than interface design and use - I mean, you have a single bar to hold all your program icons otherwise you have to browse through the file structure, and when you mouse over one it goes all big n stuff. Minimised windows go onto the same bar, crammed onto the end beside the bin - Mum couldn't find them whilst she can use a PC just fine. Gogo psychologists.

Photoshop and flash run crap on Macs compared to PCs, I can say from personal experience. I've had state-of-the-art Macs crash repeatedly trying to handle flash videos I've been making whilst my four-year-old desktop had no issues with the same files. And no, the files were started on the Mac, so there's no compatibility issues there. I've found photoshop to run slower, have more crashes and to be unable to handle as large files - that last count probably because I put enough ram into my computer when I built it.

Hardware-wise, I'd direct you to my rant halfway down page 2 about Apples successful attempts to stop me putting a CD onto an iPod. Windows 7 plug and plays with... well, everything. I doubt very much you could plug half as much hardware into a Mac and have it work straight up as you could on my PC.

What hardware tools are you talking about? Screwdrivers? Fan control units?

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

What hardware tools are you talking about? Screwdrivers? Fan control units?

Hip-o-meters.. for measuring the background levels of Hipness in your house using a poseurtron particle detector.