MacBooks: How I became jelly

RhombusHatesYou

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Griffolion said:
And of course the only other type of people who want Macs are those under the delusions of "they are easier to use", "they don't get viruses", and "they look nice".
Don't forget the uninformed that listen to their Apple Cultist friends who tell them that Macs are better made and higher tech than PCs.

As I said to my step-da "You can listen to someone who thinks his new iPad is magic or you can listen to someone who can build a PC in half an hour."
 

Chrono212

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fix-the-spade said:
Chrono212 said:
I don't have time.
£500 please! :D
No, it's mine!

I'm going to play on a bitchin' weekend away, and you can't stop me because you're Jelly!

(insert maniacal laughter)
 

Griffolion

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Chrono212 said:
Well, I would counsel you to perhaps change such an attitude. It does confer benefits, primarily financial, in the long run.

RhombusHatesYou said:
Well, tablets are another matter, we're on about Mac based PC's here. As far as tablets go, Google have superior tablets for cheaper in the Nexus 7 and 10. Simple. Done.

But yeah, I agree. You can listen to the guy who says "My Mac just works". Or you can listen to the guy who says "My PC just works, and I know precisely how it does".
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Griffolion said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Well, tablets are another matter, we're on about Mac based PC's here. As far as tablets go, Google have superior tablets for cheaper in the Nexus 7 and 10. Simple. Done.
Actually the iDrone (my term for Apple Cultists) in question was not only trying to convince my step-Da to by an iPad but also buy my 2 Macs to replace the 2 PCs she has in her home office... oh and a Macbook to replace her netbook... and an iPhone to replace her Samsung Galaxy. Apparently my 'rents shit money and noone told me.

So yeah... they bought a Galaxy Tab 10 (was the only non-Rotten Fruit tab on the market at the time) on the recommendation of one of my sisters and a couple of my nephews who are into mobile platform tech.

But yeah, I agree. You can listen to the guy who says "My Mac just works". Or you can listen to the guy who says "My PC just works, and I know precisely how it does".
My fam know if they stick with Windows based PCs they get free tech support as well as custom desktops built at cost (or even loaned out to them if I have a spare).

Anyway, yeah, my original point was that you'll rarely find a techhead these days that uses a Mac unless they have a very specific reason to do so. Macs lost of lot of their techheads when they switched to x86 architecture.
 

samnoxid

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Griffolion said:
Vault101 said:
It's a social stigma thing, that's the only reason why many will remain with Mac's in the creative industry. The only industry where you do need to still have a Mac is the music industry. The reason being that Pro Tools, the industry standard in music production, is Mac exclusive. It's Mac exclusive because Mac OS have a decent set of native drivers for MIDI interfaces, which, for some reason, is still the industry standard interface even after like 25 years. Windows has some, but they are third party and very unstable.
I have pro tools 10 on windows which works like a charm, it's not that exclusive :p
 

Smeatza

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If you like supporting the shittiest business practices of the 21st century then go ahead and buy yourself an apple product.
 

Griffolion

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samnoxid said:
Oh, I have been silly. It may not be Pro Tools, could you tell me what piece of music software is Apple exclusive and still an industry standard? Is it Logic?
 

samnoxid

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Griffolion said:
samnoxid said:
Oh, I have been silly. It may not be Pro Tools, could you tell me what piece of music software is Apple exclusive and still an industry standard? Is it Logic?
Well pro tools has only recently come to windows. Also there is logic which is apple exclusive, but logic is more DIY software then standard industry. There are no doubt others but i can't think of any right now.
 

Nigrescence

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Buy a good PC laptop with a second hard drive bay that does not come occupied. Buy a SSD and install it in the laptop (size doesn't matter too much, but you can get a good 120 GB one for a decent enough price). Reformat the hard drive that came with the laptop. Install Ubuntu on the SSD drive and make it your boot drive.

Congratulations, you are now doing it right.
 

Baneat

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Nigrescence said:
Buy a good PC laptop with a second hard drive bay that does not come occupied. Buy a SSD and install it in the laptop (size doesn't matter too much, but you can get a good 120 GB one for a decent enough price). Reformat the hard drive that came with the laptop. Install Ubuntu on the SSD drive and make it your boot drive.

Congratulations, you are now doing it right.
Ubuntu has shite battery life. gentoo with a custom built kernel can compete but really anything that's easy to install and is foss destroys your battery.

Vault101 said:
Trull said:
I own both.

As a graphic designer, OSX wins by a landslide.
.
jsut out of interest...whys that?
It isn't, it's a marketing gimmick from powermac days and their excellent screens which beat most other ones.
 

Vault101

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Baneat said:
It isn't, it's a marketing gimmick from powermac days and their excellent screens which beat most other ones.
so I dont have to feel like a fool for drawing on my PC?
 

Jfswift

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Hmm I've owned both. I think Macs are fairly reliable and easy to use. This is based on the one I had years ago. I generally go with pcs though, because they're cheaper and they boot up just as fast if you use standby mode like I do. It comes down to preference. If using the Mac or PC makes you happy then go grab one.
 

bananafishtoday

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Dryk said:
Chrono212 said:
Apple's theology that old is bad and new is better, they say what you can and can't do.
Microsoft's been doing that too

In general consumer electronics seem to be moving from "Here are some tools, use your imagination" to "You want this thing, you want to use it this way. Why? Because we said so" and I really hate it
Thiiiiis.

Apple's vision has always been "computer as household appliance." Microsoft has never really had any vision (besides "capitalism, ho!") so they've been playing follow-the-leader of late just because they're losing marketshare and mindshare.

I don't like that most people who object to Apple do so on a largely superficial level: Macs are overpriced, they're ostentatious, form over function, pretentious, blah blah blah. Who cares. That shit don't matter. What does matter is that Apple's whole philosophy is incredibly hostile to the entire idea of general-purpose computing. The walled garden, the hermetically sealed cases, the App Store censorship, the curtain thrown over any hint of what's going on beneath the glitzy surfaces of their OSes--all those things are symptoms of an approach to technology that I find abhorrent.

(If you couldn't tell by my crazed polemics, I run Debian.)

Griffolion said:
The only industry where you do need to still have a Mac is the music industry. The reason being that Pro Tools, the industry standard in music production, is Mac exclusive. It's Mac exclusive because Mac OS have a decent set of native drivers for MIDI interfaces, which, for some reason, is still the industry standard interface even after like 25 years. Windows has some, but they are third party and very unstable.
One of my best friends works in the music industry, got a Windows laptop because she didn't have the budget for a Mac. I don't remember the specifics because it was a few years ago and I know nothing about music (troubleshooting via extensive googling,) but I had a hell of a time getting her up and running so she could cut/mix tracks. At least half a dozen different drivers/patches/encoders/whatever after a few hours of researching the errors her software was throwing. But one thing I learned was that PC laptops apparently tend to have really shitty sound cards. Most of my work was finding software that would emulate hardware features (support for a certain number of channels or something) that her machine's sound card just didn't have, and a lot of people with a lot of different laptops had similar problems.

Edit:
Vault101 said:
Baneat said:
It isn't, it's a marketing gimmick from powermac days and their excellent screens which beat most other ones.
so I dont have to feel like a fool for drawing on my PC?
Nah, PC and Mac are exactly the same on that front. The reason so many graphic designers/artists/"artists" use Macs is vendor lock-in. Macs were better back in the 90's, design houses bought Macs, future designers learned on Macs. Now that the tech is the same across platforms, it's just a feedback loop: students buy Macbooks and learn on OS-X because that's what the design houses use, design houses use OS-X because that's what their employees know and what the students are learning. That plus the switching costs: if a company were to replace all their infrastructure at once, it'd cost a ton of time/money up-front for some savings down the line and zero tech benefit 'cause the tech's all the same.

So nah, you're fine.
 

Baneat

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Vault101 said:
Baneat said:
It isn't, it's a marketing gimmick from powermac days and their excellent screens which beat most other ones.
so I dont have to feel like a fool for drawing on my PC?
So long as it wipes off no.
 

Griffolion

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bananafishtoday said:
One of my best friends works in the music industry, got a Windows laptop because she didn't have the budget for a Mac. I don't remember the specifics because it was a few years ago and I know nothing about music (troubleshooting via extensive googling,) but I had a hell of a time getting her up and running so she could cut/mix tracks. At least half a dozen different drivers/patches/encoders/whatever after a few hours of researching the errors her software was throwing. But one thing I learned was that PC laptops apparently tend to have really shitty sound cards. Most of my work was finding software that would emulate hardware features (support for a certain number of channels or something) that her machine's sound card just didn't have, and a lot of people with a lot of different laptops had similar problems.
That was my point. However I've since been corrected by another poster who tells me Pro Tools is now cross platform, and it's Logic that is the Apple exclusive software I was referring to.

And you do answer your own point there. Your friend bought a cheaper laptop, and is having trouble with hardware emulation issues that are typically found in high end laptops. The sound cards in laptops (and most desktops) are simply made to provide sound at a passable level. Everyone knows that if you're into pro audio, you make sure your DAC's and SP's are top notch, for instance, from Asus.

And as I said, it's also to do with that Apple have included native drivers/encoders for many things Windows simply doesn't have in there, that does confer an advantage. Getting the same functionality on Windows requires a lot of know-how and patience. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me you had that sort of trouble, and it's why people will still go for Mac in the music industry (and rightly so in most cases). It's just the rest of the creative industry that I have a problem with the "Mac or die" mentality.

That said, I'm not a fan of Windows 8. It's nice, and runs very well, faster than Win 7 ever was, but I'm just not into the software approach MS is taking. It's just a clone of Apple's approach. Do things our way, or we're going to have a problem.

I'm perfectly okay with a centralised area of approved software, but don't make that ALL there is on offer.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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Griffolion said:
It's a social stigma thing, that's the only reason why many will remain with Mac's in the creative industry. The only industry where you do need to still have a Mac is the music industry. The reason being that Pro Tools, the industry standard in music production, is Mac exclusive. It's Mac exclusive because Mac OS have a decent set of native drivers for MIDI interfaces, which, for some reason, is still the industry standard interface even after like 25 years. Windows has some, but they are third party and very unstable.
Pro Tools is on Windows and is only the "standard" in extremely high-end studios. You do see it in cheaper ones sometimes, but I work with Cubase and Logic a LOT more. [small]EDIT: I see this has already been pointed out. Sorry. :][/small]

Logic is Mac-exclusive but is by no means standard. It's fairly popular because it's (shockingly) relatively cheap and has a fantastic in-built library of virtual instruments and effects. But considering the fact that Reaper and even Garageband are free*, have plug-in support and that some of the free plug-ins out there sound amazing it's not really a great reason to go for Logic. Also, a lot of audio interfaces come with a "lite" version of Ableton that works great with both MIDI and audio as well as having support for VSTs and other plug-ins. I think it can be downloaded as well.

Working with audio in Logic is horrible, too, but that may just be me being too set in my Cubase-worshipping ways.

Third party ASIO drivers for Windows are absolutely fine. ASIO4ALL has extremely low latency and runs reliably and most decent audio interfaces come with downright fantastic drivers. Mac is easier because you don't have to install a third party driver to get low latency but that's it. It should be noted that I have an easier time of it because my PC was purpose built for music. Gaming is it's secondary function.

And MIDI is still the standard protocol because it does everything we need it to. Depending on how they're programmed to interpret the MIDI data, virtual instruments are capable of an incredible range of articulations. Like so:
[small]I need it, but I have so many orchestras already... but I need it :[ [/small]

*Garageband comes free with Macs, but you have to buy it again if you find that you have to reinstall the OS. The full version of Reaper is technically free, but after the "trial period" has ended, they'll beg you for money.
 

niknar266

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I bought a Macbook pro because it's the only way to do iOS programming. I've grown to love it and it's a really well built machine but I still can't really justify it's price even with 15% student discount making it £860 with 3 years applecare.

The customer service of Apple is really good though. The 2 times I've been in for repairs at an Apple store 1 for iPhone and 1 for my Macbook they've been really good at sorting out my problem. The Macbook had water damage as well which isn't covered under warranty but since it was only 3 months old at the time it was still a free repair.

The one thing about Apple products I've came to believe is it's OK to own them but don't be a fanboy. Apple fanboys seem to be in a class of their own for fanboyism. I remember when I first got my Macbook I was looking for a way to do Windows 7 style window snapping and some of the forum posts I found through google were like big circlejerks of "Ew why do you want a windows feature?".