Magic The Gathering: Should Standards be standard

[Mr Pantomime]

In terms of casual play, how do you feel about people using non-standard cards? Ive been playing a lot of Magic recently, and a friend keeps pointing out that some of my cards aren't standard. We are both quite new players, only playing for a few weeks, so im not sure on the etiquitte. So id like to hear some opinions on non-standard cards.

Note: Non-standard means they aren't used in standard play anymore ie they can't be used in tournaments. From what I know, only the last 3 sets are used in actual competative play.Don't quote me on this though.

 

[Bertylicious]

Disclaimer: I am pretty periphery to the hobby, but I appreciate it none the less so I'm going to weigh in with my 2 cents.

I think it all comes down to how competetive you and the groups you play in are. There are well established rules for this sort of thing on the competative circuit, but really when you're playing with friends I think the objective should be fun.

For instance, stuff like multiplayer magic with 3 or 4 people playing can be excellent fun, as is matching up different sorts of decks for the simple joy of playing them.

That said, if you're more keen on setting up leauges, playoffs and that sort of thing then you've got to establish firm ground rules which, in my limited experience, translates into restrictions and limitations on the number of certain cards you can have.

 

[Kermi]

What the hell is a "non standard" card? I know there's some cards that aren't allowed in tournaments, but if the card came out of a starter or booster deck it should be permitted in casual play.

The kinda shit I won't put up with is proxies. People wanted the shit-hot decks they read about in Scrye magazine but couldn't find/afford the specific cards they wanted, so they just put slips of paper in the card covers with land cards or whatever and said "oh, this is my black lotus" or whatever.

At that point you find other people to play with.

 

[Bertylicious]

What the hell is a "non standard" card? I know there's some cards that aren't allowed in tournaments, but if the card came out of a starter or booster deck it should be permitted in casual play.

The kinda shit I won't put up with is proxies. People wanted the shit-hot decks they read about in Scrye magazine but couldn't find/afford the specific cards they wanted, so they just put slips of paper in the card covers with land cards or whatever and said "oh, this is my black lotus" or whatever.

At that point you find other people to play with.

I totally understand the sentiment. Part of the hobby has got to be about the collecting aspect and using proxies makes a mockery of it all.

People can be cunts sometimes.

 

[Grygor]

I'm curious what exactly is meant by "non-standard"...

Can't really say much more without knowing what that's supposed to mean.

 

[Mr Pantomime]

What the hell is a "non standard" card? I know there's some cards that aren't allowed in tournaments, but if the card came out of a starter or booster deck it should be permitted in casual play.

The kinda shit I won't put up with is proxies. People wanted the shit-hot decks they read about in Scrye magazine but couldn't find/afford the specific cards they wanted, so they just put slips of paper in the card covers with land cards or whatever and said "oh, this is my black lotus" or whatever.

At that point you find other people to play with.

I'm curious what exactly is meant by "non-standard"...

Can't really say much more without knowing what that's supposed to mean.

I think its usually referred to as "not in standard". In tournament play, the only legal cards are from the last 3 sets, which is something like the lat 3 years. From what I know anyway.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Non-standard is what makes casual play fun. Nothing beats dropping your shit-hot green/red beats right down the jaw of a Kamigawa deck, it's a blast from the past, and you get all those memories and nostalgia coming through along with an unexpected challenge outside of the usual enemy decks.

I'm putting together my old Orzhov and Golgari decks for the new ravnica set coming out, lets see how the new kids stack up to the might of undead bankers and zombie farmers.

 

[Grygor]

What the hell is a "non standard" card? I know there's some cards that aren't allowed in tournaments, but if the card came out of a starter or booster deck it should be permitted in casual play.

The kinda shit I won't put up with is proxies. People wanted the shit-hot decks they read about in Scrye magazine but couldn't find/afford the specific cards they wanted, so they just put slips of paper in the card covers with land cards or whatever and said "oh, this is my black lotus" or whatever.

At that point you find other people to play with.

I'm curious what exactly is meant by "non-standard"...

Can't really say much more without knowing what that's supposed to mean.

I think its usually referred to as "not in standard". In tournament play, the only legal cards are from the last 3 sets, which is something like the lat 3 years. From what I know anyway.

Well I wanted to ask to be sure, because new players are rarely up on tournament format and whatnot.

That said, Standard consists of the current core set - Magic 2012 - and the two most recent blocks of expansions (expansions are grouped into blocks of related exapnsions, typically 3 or 4 expansions per block), Scars of Mirrodin - which contains the Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged, and New Phyrexia expansions - and Innistrad - which consists of the Innistrad, Dark Ascension, and upcoming Avacyn Restored expansions.

However, there is one important caveat: reprints. Cards from older sets can used freely if they were reprinted in a set that you can legally use; they are treated as having the most-recently-printed card text though. For example, I can use my Birds of Paradise in Standard, even though its from Revised (i.e. the third edition) and thus was printed in 1994, because Birds of Paradise was reprinted in Magic 2012 - and it will be treated exactly like a Magic 2012 Birds of Paradise (of course in this case, the only change from the very first Birds of Paradise is the removal of a line of text that is no longer relevant).

(When the next core set, Magic 2013, is released in June, it will also become legal in standard; and when the first expansion of the next block is released in October, the Scars of Mirrodin block and 2012 core set will no longer be legal in Standard.)

Please note, of course, that Standard is not the only tournament-legal format, just the most common.

There's also Extended - the three most recent core sets (2010 on up) and the four most recent expansion blocks (everything from Shards of Alara on up, Modern - basically, everything from Eighth Edition, printed in 2003, on up, and Vintage and Legacy, which are open to every set ever printed. Right now, every format except Standard also has a short list of banned or restricted cards.

When in doubt, you can check the official card database at gatherer.wizards.com, to see what cards are legal in what formats and what the current card text is.

As far as etiquette goes in casual play, just make sure that whoever you're playing knows if your deck isn't Standard-legal and be willing to remove non-legal cards (or substitute legal cards in, as needed) if they object.

 

[Kermi]

What the hell is a "non standard" card? I know there's some cards that aren't allowed in tournaments, but if the card came out of a starter or booster deck it should be permitted in casual play.

The kinda shit I won't put up with is proxies. People wanted the shit-hot decks they read about in Scrye magazine but couldn't find/afford the specific cards they wanted, so they just put slips of paper in the card covers with land cards or whatever and said "oh, this is my black lotus" or whatever.

At that point you find other people to play with.

I'm curious what exactly is meant by "non-standard"...

Can't really say much more without knowing what that's supposed to mean.

I think its usually referred to as "not in standard". In tournament play, the only legal cards are from the last 3 sets, which is something like the lat 3 years. From what I know anyway.

Wow, I last bought Magic cards over 13 years ago. I guess I'd have to start over.

 

[Dryk]

I always thought that that rule was genius with regards to making money... the fact that your friend is trying to enforce it in casual play is a little weird to me, but maybe it's because I don't know much about Magic's balance

the reason the Standard format exists is to preserve a consistent level of balance. if you have a bunch of more powerful cards from older sets, it can be hard for someone just starting out to compete with you and that's no fun. since you're both pretty new players though, it's probably not that big a deal.

Doesn't that require the older sets to be consistently more powerful to work as a justification though? I mean there are some horribly broken cards in old sets for sure, but is this really the best option?

 

[cobra_ky]

In terms of casual play, how do you feel about people using non-standard cards? Ive been playing a lot of Magic recently, and a friend keeps pointing out that some of my cards aren't standard. We are both quite new players, only playing for a few weeks, so im not sure on the etiquitte. So id like to hear some opinions on non-standard cards.

Note: Non-standard means they aren't used in standard play anymore ie they can't be used in tournaments. From what I know, only the last 3 sets are used in actual competative play.Don't quote me on this though.

the reason the Standard format exists is to preserve a consistent level of balance. if you have a bunch of more powerful cards from older sets, it can be hard for someone just starting out to compete with you and that's no fun. since you're both pretty new players though, it's probably not that big a deal.

 

[uhddh]

The kinda shit I won't put up with is proxies.

I'm cool with proxies if they have the card but don't have slips for that deck. For example my friend ran a deck with 2 or 3 plainswalkers in it but didn't have slips for the deck. So he just used different lands to represent them so the cards wouldn't get damaged by shuffling.

OT: My friends and I run standard decks for more serious games and non standard decks for messing around with and just improving upon if we can. I'm running a white removal deck at the moment which is most certainly not standard (still limited to 4 of one type of card e.g. max of 4 O-Rings [I love those cards]).

 

[Atmos Duality]

Conformity to Standard is only absolutely necessary if you're practicing for Standard.
In theory, Standard is supposed to be balanced by exclusion of the older, broken cards, but WotC has proved to be hilariously inept in balancing the format since the end of Time Spiral.

(and the flagrant power creep isn't helping)

 

[lapan]

In terms of casual play, how do you feel about people using non-standard cards? Ive been playing a lot of Magic recently, and a friend keeps pointing out that some of my cards aren't standard. We are both quite new players, only playing for a few weeks, so im not sure on the etiquitte. So id like to hear some opinions on non-standard cards.

Note: Non-standard means they aren't used in standard play anymore ie they can't be used in tournaments. From what I know, only the last 3 sets are used in actual competative play.Don't quote me on this though.

the reason the Standard format exists is to preserve a consistent level of balance. if you have a bunch of more powerful cards from older sets, it can be hard for someone just starting out to compete with you and that's no fun. since you're both pretty new players though, it's probably not that big a deal.

Funnily enough the new card seem much more overpowered compared to 90% of the old cards except maybe the first 3 editions.

Shit like this is just silly:

OT: Me and my friends never gave a shit about MtG Standarts. I myself stopped playing magic after mirrodin when all those silly flip Legend creatures came out.

 

[cobra_ky]

In terms of casual play, how do you feel about people using non-standard cards? Ive been playing a lot of Magic recently, and a friend keeps pointing out that some of my cards aren't standard. We are both quite new players, only playing for a few weeks, so im not sure on the etiquitte. So id like to hear some opinions on non-standard cards.

Note: Non-standard means they aren't used in standard play anymore ie they can't be used in tournaments. From what I know, only the last 3 sets are used in actual competative play.Don't quote me on this though.

the reason the Standard format exists is to preserve a consistent level of balance. if you have a bunch of more powerful cards from older sets, it can be hard for someone just starting out to compete with you and that's no fun. since you're both pretty new players though, it's probably not that big a deal.

Funnily enough the new card seem much more overpowered compared to 90% of the old cards except maybe the first 3 editions.

Shit like this is just silly:

OT: Me and my friends never gave a shit about MtG Standarts. I myself stopped playing magic after mirrodin when all those silly flip Legend creatures came out.

15 mana, plus it won't stay in the graveyard so you can't get into any reanimation shenanigans with it.

Now, you want to see something really scary:

<img src=http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/280.jpg><img src=http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ex/93.jpg>

Mirrodin was pretty broken thanks to affinity (that's about when i quit, too), but man, doesn't anyone remember the Urza's block anymore?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Who the heck sticks to the type 2 banned list when playing casual? Standard is nothing but Wizards' way of making sure anyone who consistently plays in tournaments completely replaces their card base every year or two, it's not something that I've ever known anyone to worry about when playing casually.

Now I know that there's some broken crap that has rotated out (Urza block, Mirrodin block, Eldrazi block, the power 9 from Alpha and Beta...) but casual players generally aren't dropping enough money to get the really broken stuff (again, the power 9; unless you've got several grand to drop on something you're just doing for fun, you're not gonna see those.) The blocks I named that are broken are less of a problem mainly because they're old enough that casual players just aren't going to have a large cardbase for them, unless they've been playing since those blocks were in standard, in which case they still probably aren't going to do much that's unfair with them. Besides, there's been a bit of power creep in recent years; as my mention of the Eldrazi block in the list of broken blocks shows, modern blocks can generally hold their own or better.

TL;DR: Your friend is nuts. Unless you're planning on playing in a standard constructed tournament, you really don't need to worry about it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

In terms of casual play, how do you feel about people using non-standard cards? Ive been playing a lot of Magic recently, and a friend keeps pointing out that some of my cards aren't standard. We are both quite new players, only playing for a few weeks, so im not sure on the etiquitte. So id like to hear some opinions on non-standard cards.

Note: Non-standard means they aren't used in standard play anymore ie they can't be used in tournaments. From what I know, only the last 3 sets are used in actual competative play.Don't quote me on this though.

the reason the Standard format exists is to preserve a consistent level of balance. if you have a bunch of more powerful cards from older sets, it can be hard for someone just starting out to compete with you and that's no fun. since you're both pretty new players though, it's probably not that big a deal.

Funnily enough the new card seem much more overpowered compared to 90% of the old cards except maybe the first 3 editions.

Shit like this is just silly:

OT: Me and my friends never gave a shit about MtG Standarts. I myself stopped playing magic after mirrodin when all those silly flip Legend creatures came out.

15 mana, plus it won't stay in the graveyard so you can't get into any reanimation shenanigans with it.

Now, you want to see something really scary:

<img src=http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/280.jpg><img src=http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ex/93.jpg>

Mirrodin was pretty broken thanks to affinity (that's about when i quit, too), but man, doesn't anyone remember the Urza's block anymore?

The thing about Eldrazi block is that it had completely ridiculous levels of mana acceleration. There were so many non-standard ways of getting mana, so many tokens you could sacrifice for mana, that 15 converted cost was really not all that much. That's actually the last block I even played casual during because the power creep had made my old cards uncompetitive, and I couldn't afford to buy enough to get back in the game.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

In terms of casual play, how do you feel about people using non-standard cards? Ive been playing a lot of Magic recently, and a friend keeps pointing out that some of my cards aren't standard. We are both quite new players, only playing for a few weeks, so im not sure on the etiquitte. So id like to hear some opinions on non-standard cards.

Note: Non-standard means they aren't used in standard play anymore ie they can't be used in tournaments. From what I know, only the last 3 sets are used in actual competative play.Don't quote me on this though.

It depends on who you're playing with or why you're playing.
If you're at a tournament or are playing tournament style with your friends, if the rules are you can only use cards from the current block then well thems the rules.

But in general for casual play you can use just about anything, unless you're playing unglued http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9764 ...but again that just depends on what deck rules you're using.

In general, go with whatever allows you and your friends to have fun. If you have a tonne of old cards, being told you can't use them and you have to spend lots of money on new ones isn't very fun.

But at the same time just because you CAN use any card doesn't mean you have to. In my circle of friends if you spend £30 on one card, or spend even £30 on a playset of 4 of the same card, you're a prick and you're ruining it for everyone else because not everyone can spend that much money to match your pro level deck.

 

[smearyllama]

I think it's fine unless you're trying to emulate a tournament for practice or something. I have a deck somewhere around here that has a Broodstar (x/x where x is the number of artifacts you control), a Darksteel Forge (All artifacts you control are indestructible) and a Platinum Angel (Artifact creature that makes it so no one besides you can win and you cannot lose). Is it tournament legal? No. Is it still fun to play with? Yes.

I say allow using nonstandard cards as long as it's not some stupid and broken Unglued card. Those are okay for collecting and giggling at, but playing with them causes issues, and it's no fun to go searching through rules when you could be playing.

 

[tippy2k2]

I prefer when people use Standard during casual play...

...but then again, I just got into playing Magic with Innistrad so I'm a bit biased. I don't recognize any old cards : (

FEAR MY TWO DECKS! FEAR THEM!!!