Magnus Did Nothing Wrong.

[vallorn]

Magnus also inadvertently wrecked the big E's webway project, nearly caused earth to get flooded with demons and necessitated the Emp. to spend the Heresy sitting on that goddamn throne rather than taking the fight to Horus

See, to me, that was one of the first signs that 40k and I were going to have a falling out.

Magnus was originally written as a tragic figure. His crime was to try and use sorcery (the magic of chaos) in the service of mankind, because he believed that with his vast occult knowledge he could control it. The Emperor disagreed and send Russ to purge the thousand sons, because the Emperor was kind of ruthless and uncompromising and ruled over a xenocidal fascist empire which killed billions. The siege of Prospero was so atrocious that, in a great example of dramatic irony, Magnus lost focus and was overwhelmed by the sorcerous power he had called on, being consumed by Chaos. It's a neat little story in which every character is flawed and it isn't clear who is right. Magnus is arrogant and careless with the incredibly dangerous things he's doing, Russ is a hateful bigot who murders planets because daddy told him too, and even the Emperor is flawed, and ultimately his own actions end up causing the very thing he is trying to avoid.

Then the Horus Heresy books came along.. and the Emperor is not allowed to be flawed in any way. He is perfect and beautiful, and if he ever did anything questionable it is entirely justified. He is a very special boy, and if only everyone had just listened to the Emperor and obeyed his every command without question, nothing would have gone wrong.

And I have two problems with that:

1) It's just fundamentally less interesting. The Horus Heresy always had this hint of mythology, where there was a good side and an evil side but ultimately the good side were a bunch of flawed human beings who were doing their best and were maybe even responsible in some ways for all the bad things happening. Now, it's become like judeo-Christian scripture, in fact it's become a fairly straightforward retelling of the fall of lucifer.

2) 40k is a setting about literal space fascism. To appreciate that, you need a layer of detachment. You (the player) do not have to root for the Emperor just because the people in the game literally worship the Emperor. It is not necessary for a genocidal warlord to be perfectly right and justified and always sympathetic, in fact it's weird.

I don't think you've actually read the Horus Heresy books because that's NOT how they portray the Emperor, he's untrusting, doesn't tell his sons anything important, flat out butchers the Thunder Warriors, manipulated the Mechanium in a massive long-con, EVERYTHING IN THE LAST CHURCH, etc. Hell, Russ is only so easy for Horus to manipulate because he IS a massive fuckwit who butchers star systems on the flimsiest of orders without asking why. Magnus Did Nothing Wrong is a meme because the guy was an arrogant idiot who got drunk on his own power, thought he knew better than everyone else, and was willing to go to absurd lengths over daddy issues. But at the same time his fall is a tragedy because he wasn't trying to do anything bad.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Magnus also inadvertently wrecked the big E's webway project, nearly caused earth to get flooded with demons and necessitated the Emp. to spend the Heresy sitting on that goddamn throne rather than taking the fight to Horus

See, to me, that was one of the first signs that 40k and I were going to have a falling out.

Magnus was originally written as a tragic figure. His crime was to try and use sorcery (the magic of chaos) in the service of mankind, because he believed that with his vast occult knowledge he could control it. The Emperor disagreed and send Russ to purge the thousand sons, because the Emperor was kind of ruthless and uncompromising and ruled over a xenocidal fascist empire which killed billions. The siege of Prospero was so atrocious that, in a great example of dramatic irony, Magnus lost focus and was overwhelmed by the sorcerous power he had called on, being consumed by Chaos. It's a neat little story in which every character is flawed and it isn't clear who is right. Magnus is arrogant and careless with the incredibly dangerous things he's doing, Russ is a hateful bigot who murders planets because daddy told him too, and even the Emperor is flawed, and ultimately his own actions end up causing the very thing he is trying to avoid.

Then the Horus Heresy books came along.. and the Emperor is not allowed to be flawed in any way. He is perfect and beautiful, and if he ever did anything questionable it is entirely justified. He is a very special boy, and if only everyone had just listened to the Emperor and obeyed his every command without question, nothing would have gone wrong.

And I have two problems with that:

1) It's just fundamentally less interesting. The Horus Heresy always had this hint of mythology, where there was a good side and an evil side but ultimately the good side were a bunch of flawed human beings who were doing their best and were maybe even responsible in some ways for all the bad things happening. Now, it's become like judeo-Christian scripture, in fact it's become a fairly straightforward retelling of the fall of lucifer.

2) 40k is a setting about literal space fascism. To appreciate that, you need a layer of detachment. You (the player) do not have to root for the Emperor just because the people in the game literally worship the Emperor. It is not necessary for a genocidal warlord to be perfectly right and justified and always sympathetic, in fact it's weird.

I don't think you've actually read the Horus Heresy books because that's NOT how they portray the Emperor, he's untrusting, doesn't tell his sons anything important, flat out butchers the Thunder Warriors, manipulated the Mechanium in a massive long-con, EVERYTHING IN THE LAST CHURCH, etc. Hell, Russ is only so easy for Horus to manipulate because he IS a massive fuckwit who butchers star systems on the flimsiest of orders without asking why. Magnus Did Nothing Wrong is a meme because the guy was an arrogant idiot who got drunk on his own power, thought he knew better than everyone else, and was willing to go to absurd lengths over daddy issues. But at the same time his fall is a tragedy because he wasn't trying to do anything bad.

Didn't Emp's quotes about Angron come from the HH books? Like the one where he flat out says the primarchs are tools?

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Look, it doesn't really matter now does it? Magnus has his soul back, the Fyodperor is on his way back to us, thing are looking up.

 

[jademunky]

snip

Nitpick: The Emperor originally sent Russ to arrest Magnus. It was the manipulation of Horus that led to the burning of Prospero.

But yeah you do need a sense of detachment to really appreciate 40K in all it's beyond-over-the-top-silliness. (And yes, as a fan, I can totally admit that 40K is very very silly)