Mainstream games these days are more about making money and appealing to the masses since gaming as a whole has become more popular. You know what all this high end technology means ? Developers can let graphics and mechanics sell their game instead of gameplay and story. Modern games barely keep me interested long enough to justify having rented/pirated it.
I'm very thankful that no matter how bad games get I can still play the snes/genesis/nes games I've played 100 times before and know that they're going to be more enjoyable than the generic crap they pump out today. That's not to say all modern games are horrid but it's extremely rare for me to consider a modern game better than decent.
I think we have reached the originality saturation point. Most of the good ideas have already been done...to death. It isn't just with games but with all media. Music, TV, movies and literature has reached a point where we are being bombarded with clones. And at the same time we expect more since we have better technology.
That is a fallacy. There are a ton of good ideas no one has thought of (don't make me give examples, that is the "no one" part). The problem is that most mainstream games (and movies, TV, etc) cost a lot of money, so the risks of new ideas coming from that direction are very controlled.
Among the fodder labelled mainstream, I will say that there is so much MEH material out there labeled as a great gaming experience. But lose not faith less you condemm yourself to a private hell <3
i'd say that because of the general hype, people tend to buy more mainstream games, just like tuna follows it's own bank of tuna, or a sheep that follows it's flock.
This argument comes up every generation, maybe because you tend to forget all the crap old games while all the crap new ones are still fresh in your memory.
On the other hand the costs of games are increcing and some developers are less likley to risk that much money on a game that potentialy won't sell.
Personally, a good percentage of the 'worst games I have ever played' have been in this current generation. But, then again, that might just be because I'm getting old and grumpy and harder to please.
I would argue that Assassin's Creed 2 was a pretty amazing game, but that's not the point of this thread, is it?
It's not because they're mainstream, but it's because making a linear "play it once and buy another one" means people buy more, so that's probably how people who make games approach making said games.
I think there's something wrong with your equation, friend. Frankly, I don't trust the mainstream public when it comes to whether or not a game is 'good', because for the most part, their views don't coincide with mine. Therefore, popular doesn't always equal good.
Example - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Amazing sales. Extremely popular. Good? Not in my opinion. Lacks story and innovative gameplay. Not BAD, but certainly not good.
You seem to forget why mainstream games became mainstream in the first place... it is because they were PRETTY DAMN GOOD.
Granted, MW2 is not something to write home about but, when it first came out, Call of Duty was a lot better than any other FPS in the market. Name me one console FPS that had a better multiplayer than the first Halo when it came out. People start following franchises because they are good, voice spread, and other people hear they are good (or because they have a pretty good marketing). Its the reason why Batman (despite the original disbelief) sold a ton of copies and is going to became a franchise; its the reason why games like Valkyria Chronicles and Demon's Souls are going to became franchises despite poor sales on the first weeks.
And people seems to overwrite originality with nostalgia. Sure, now we have an oversaturation of rythm and FPS clones, but it is hardly new. Back in the NES era, it was a time of platformers/Mario and Contra clones. The SNES and PS1 saw the time of the JRPG clones (where everyone was trying to be Final Fantasy). The arcades had the time of the Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat clones (some of which were actually better than Street Fighter, but no one played them). So, stop saying "in the good old times, games were more original and people recognised that."
@hermes200 - I agree with you to an extent. It takes a great original IP like Halo to start a super-popular series. Unfortunately, especially in the case of Halo, the companies begin to milk the IP until it becomes stale. Halo 1 was the best in the series - it was all downhill from there. Halo: Reach? Excited? You might get one or two new weapons, some new maps, but ultimately, you're playing the same game from years ago.
I agree that Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles were great games, regardless of poor sales. I wouldn't consider them mainstream popular, but maybe that's a good thing - hopefully their respective developers have enough sense not to destroy the magic...
Not because they're mainstream, but just...because. I'm not sure why, but my recent forays into popular games like Call Of Duty and such have just ended badly.
The popularity or "mainstreamness" of a game is a bad thing to use for judging criteria, because they are totally arbitrary and do not relate to quality. It's like Mark Twain said, "Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident."
That said, I, too, find games that people consider mainstream to be of much lower quality recently than games have been in the past. There's just not enough to them to make them interesting to me. It's the same problem with TV shows. Too much production run by committees: bureaucracies in charge of bureaucracies.
Star Ocean 4 was a very crappy rpg. Awesome games nowadays are sporadic at best but there are tons of awesome games out there. Such higher production values nowadays. Epic and fun games that come to mind....
Saints Row 2
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Brutal Legend
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Fallout 3
It seems we have a different taste in games here. Star Ocean 4 is a very good game IMO. And of the ones listed I only like Fallout 3, and maybe Lost Odyssey. I'll bet all your examples of good RPGs are western ones, excepting Lost Odyssey.
Star Ocean 4 was a very crappy rpg. Awesome games nowadays are sporadic at best but there are tons of awesome games out there. Such higher production values nowadays. Epic and fun games that come to mind....
Saints Row 2
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Brutal Legend
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Fallout 3
It seems we have a different taste in games here. Star Ocean 4 is a very good game IMO. And of the ones listed I only like Fallout 3, and maybe Lost Odyssey. I'll bet all your examples of good RPGs are western ones, excepting Lost Odyssey.
Star Ocean 4 was a very crappy rpg. Awesome games nowadays are sporadic at best but there are tons of awesome games out there. Such higher production values nowadays. Epic and fun games that come to mind....
Saints Row 2
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Brutal Legend
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Fallout 3
Star Ocean 4 was a very crappy rpg. Awesome games nowadays are sporadic at best but there are tons of awesome games out there. Such higher production values nowadays. Epic and fun games that come to mind....
Saints Row 2
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Brutal Legend
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Fallout 3
I will admit I did enjoy the story AND I wanted to know what happened after the last battle with whats her name (emo girl) but I could never get past those fucking crow trees
I'll make it short.
New games are definitely improved for the most part at least in gameplay and graphics. Some games are better because they improved over time with each iteration; see Tales of Vesperia.
Older games are great because they were the first to give great experiences, that's how we remember them, and some remain better than some of today's games.
Most new games, try to recreate the magic from the old games. Chiches are hard to avoid, and there are many new ideas and unique perspectives to use, which can make unique experiences.
They just don't do this because it's easier to make a generic cash grab that relies on making money first, being shiny second, and new ideas last.
Half the damn time they don't even bother with story, which is one of the biggest mistakes they make.
I should add that in my opinion big companies like Bioware at least try to make new experiences; places like Bungie are beating their dead horse, and companies like, but in particular, Nintendo are doing the same as Bungie but also squeezing rocks for blood.
Star Ocean 4 was a very crappy rpg. Awesome games nowadays are sporadic at best but there are tons of awesome games out there. Such higher production values nowadays. Epic and fun games that come to mind....
Saints Row 2
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Brutal Legend
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Fallout 3
It seems we have a different taste in games here. Star Ocean 4 is a very good game IMO. And of the ones listed I only like Fallout 3, and maybe Lost Odyssey. I'll bet all your examples of good RPGs are western ones, excepting Lost Odyssey.
Yes I have. It was fucken rad. Tho I got half way thru and ZSNES (or whatever its called, its been ages) crashed and then I accidently saved state instead of loading. And I have it on PSP aswell and the 2nd one on PSP is very high on my if-I-see-it-I-must-buy-it list. I have the other 2 aswell. My uncle sold me the 2nd on for like $10 (which he regrets after looking at the eBay prices) and I got the 3rd one practically the day it came out. I sank 110 hours into the third one and I think the 2nd one is probably the best. So if you think I am not a real Star Ocean fan, your dead wrong. Yes, it might not be as good, but its still a very good Star Ocean game.
You a big Star Ocean fan? You seem to have played the first one and I'm not sure from what you said if you like it or not..
Oh, and for the book, my order of greatness is: 2, 1, 3, 4. I think
Ghostwise said:
stok3r said:
Ghostwise said:
Star Ocean 4 was a very crappy rpg. Awesome games nowadays are sporadic at best but there are tons of awesome games out there. Such higher production values nowadays. Epic and fun games that come to mind....
Saints Row 2
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Brutal Legend
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Fallout 3
It seems we have a different taste in games here. Star Ocean 4 is a very good game IMO. And of the ones listed I only like Fallout 3, and maybe Lost Odyssey. I'll bet all your examples of good RPGs are western ones, excepting Lost Odyssey.
Not even close my friend. I'm taking a vacation to get my FFXIII fix. Another amazing JRPG is Tales of Vesperia. One of the best if you ask me. Resonance of Fate is gonna kick ass too. The thing is, is that I like good games and SO4 was a MAJOR letdown.
Ah touche, I take that back. I've heard from people (well, mainly Dom, and I think hes one to trust) that it is a letdown too, tho, it is Final Fantasy, and I'm gonna play it. And Tales of Vesperia? Haven't had much to do with the Tales games. I have the first(?) one on PSP and its quite good. Also, I live in Australia and in a country city (i think thats the best way to describe it) so games like Tales arnt really in often.
If your judging Star Ocean from previous ones, yeah it might be a letdown, but its still very good.
Haha yeahh maybe I deserved that. If you can use the remote thing, there are good games on it. Zelda, for example. But there are just sooooo many crap games on wii. The only ones I would get from the top of my head:
Zelda
Metroid
Silent Hill (idk, depends on what the PS2 one is like, I havent looked into it)
I think theres a few more but i cant think of them atm. But anyway, the remote renders them unplayable to me. IMO (and lots of other peoples for that matter) is that Nintendo is just releasing casual games to increasing their money pile and when they do release an actual nintendo game, they are beating a dead horse for more money. EG, the New Mario Bros. is ABSOLUTELY SHIT. I agree with Yahtzee and it has NO reason to exist whatsoever! It is one of the worst games I have ever played. And yes, I have played it, and I felt like Murdering someone because its just so GODDAMN FRUSTRATING!!
hermes200 said:
And people seems to overwrite originality with nostalgia. Sure, now we have an oversaturation of rythm and FPS clones, but it is hardly new. Back in the NES era, it was a time of platformers/Mario and Contra clones. The SNES and PS1 saw the time of the JRPG clones (where everyone was trying to be Final Fantasy). The arcades had the time of the Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat clones (some of which were actually better than Street Fighter, but no one played them). So, stop saying "in the good old times, games were more original and people recognised that."
Yeahh ill give you that. Personally my nostalgia goes back to the N64, and the best games on that was CBFD (also in my best games ever list), the Zeldas, Perfect Dark, and a few more, I havent touched the thing in ages. It might just be me and it might be a factor in why I think the games are cat shite, but JRPGs are my pet genre. The one I feed big chunks of meat to which take the form of my wasted life. But thats the exact reason why I love the PS1 and SNES so much, because of all those Final Fantasy "clones" (not all of them are, they can stand on their own you know). And you cant call that nostalgia because I didnt own a PS1. The time I started playing PS1 games was when after the PS2 came out.
(BTW, I think Mario 64 is shit aswell. I've never been able to finish it because it makes me want to break a neck)
*prepares for a bashing*
Also, sorry for the book-length double-post. I had alot to say.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Another amazing JRPG is Tales of Vesperia. One of the best if you ask me. Resonance of Fate is gonna kick ass too. The thing is, is that I like good games and SO4 was a MAJOR letdown.
