Mangaka Claims Kill la Kill Plagiarizes His Manga

[chikusho]

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Isn't the absurdly powerful student council thing something of a prevailing trope in anime?

The answer is yes, yes it is.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbsurdlyPowerfulStudentCouncil

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

 

[Scarim Coral]

While I have not seen his work but I wouldn't called the situation to be plagiarism (Nick Simmon Incarnate however is) just more like the said work is similar to many other tropes out there already. Even then, comparing his character to Nui Harime is not a good example of plagiaring, sure the two are abit (both child like and suppose to be cute) similar but not an outright copy cat.

 

[mindfaQ]

Many anime and manga stuff is interchangable and clicheed (especially those catering to young or midaged males), overlaps are bound to happen in a scene like this.

 

[Zeldias]

Having watched the first episode it actually reminds of Project AKO. Probably a bit before most of you kittens time though.

-old timer high five-

 

[chikusho]

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

He said he had "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer." That is a pretty bold and most likely untrue statement. Maybe it was the translation or maybe it was an unfamiliarity with the term, that I could understand.

But comparing PTSD to the shock of seeing a trailer of something that is in some ways related to a comic you wrote a while is hyperbolic and downright insensitive.

 

[chikusho]

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

Which is obviously hyperbole to the insane degree.

Maybe it just faulty translation into English which is the culprit or being unfamiliar with the connentations that come with the phrase PTSD, but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that the guy did not experiance it while watching a silly anime trailer.

It would likely be hyperbole if he said he now suffers PTSD which he contracted from watching a trailer.

However, he did not claim any such thing (according to this article). He said he had: "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer."
Which, if we look at it medically, could mean a combination of anything from a very long list of symptoms that might, or might not, be connected to a traumatic event in his past.

So, for all the people in this thread would know, his claim could be entirely accurate. And you have no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

Which is obviously hyperbole to the insane degree.

Maybe it just faulty translation into English which is the culprit or being unfamiliar with the connentations that come with the phrase PTSD, but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that the guy did not experiance it while watching a silly anime trailer.

It would likely be hyperbole if he said he now suffers PTSD which he contracted from watching a trailer.

However, he did not claim any such thing (according to this article). He said he had: "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer."
Which, if we look at it medically, could mean a combination of anything from a very long list of symptoms that might, or might not, be connected to a traumatic event in his past.

So, for all the people in this thread would know, his claim could be entirely accurate. And you have no reason to believe otherwise.

Alight, lets say he suffered symptoms of PTSD.

You still do not say you suffered from PTSD symptoms. It implies that you have PTSD.

Yes, it's technically true, but him saying that is like me saying I had "radiation sickness like symptoms" after eating a half cooked fish at a shady stand under a dock. Its hyperbolic and ultimately misleading. Like I do not have to deal with cancer this guy does not have to deal with the soul crushing depression that comes from real PTSD.

 

[chikusho]

Alight, lets say he suffered symptoms of PTSD.

You still do not say you suffered from PTSD symptoms. It implies that you have PTSD.

Yes, it's technically true, but him saying that is like me saying I had "radiation sickness like symptoms" after eating a half cooked fish at a shady stand under a dock. Its hyperbolic and ultimately misleading. Like I do not have to deal with cancer this guy does not have to deal with the soul crushing depression that comes from real PTSD.

There's a big difference. Firstly, radiation sickness is caused by radiation, and cancer is a long term effect of radiation exposure, not a symptom of radiation sickness. Also, I completely understand the parallel between the two and would not consider it misleading at all.

PTSD, on the other hand, can be caused by an enormous amount of experiences that can vary wildly between each individual. The same with what triggers it after it has set in. This is a psychological affliction with much more abstract and hard to pin down cause and effect. Ultimately, the only person who can determine whether or not his reaction to this particular event is like PTSD or not is Ooshima himself. And you, not only doubting his reaction, but also reacting to a single word of his description out of context, is very unseemly.

 

[Korolev]

Even if it is Plagarism, good luck proving it. A lot creative works borrow from each other - there's very little new under the sun and if we crucified every single new bit of media that resembled something else, we'd be crucifying darn near everything.

I've never seen Kill La Kill and I've never read whatever Manga Ooshima claims it rips off of, but I've watched a lot of movies and I've read a lot of books and the thing Ooshima is complaining about - taking the basic premise and themes from a work of fiction and using parts of them to make a new work of art - is INCREDIBLY common. As common as dishwater.

Is Pacific Rim "plagiarizing" Evangelion? Are The Hunger Games "plagiarizing" Battle Royale? Is the recent Tomb Raider game "Plagiarizing" the Uncharted games? Are the Uncharted Games "plagiarizing" from the older tomb raider games?

Ooshima might be right that the creators of Kill la Kill saw his earlier work and decided to make something similar, but that is NOT plagiarism. At the very worst it's creatively bankrupt, but not evil and in reality it's usually a pretty standard, normal thing that artists do. Many, many great books, films, games and shows have used earlier works to inspire them.

 

[lacktheknack]

It would likely be hyperbole if he said he now suffers PTSD which he contracted from watching a trailer.

However, he did not claim any such thing (according to this article). He said he had: "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer."
Which, if we look at it medically, could mean a combination of anything from a very long list of symptoms that might, or might not, be connected to a traumatic event in his past.

So, for all the people in this thread would know, his claim could be entirely accurate. And you have no reason to believe otherwise.

Accurate or not, he's still being a massive asshole to people who suffer major PTSD symptoms over things that actually matter (no, a trailer to an anime that looks similar to yours does not matter). If it's accurate, that's even worse, because it more effectively trivializes the harrowing moments that actual PTSD sufferers experience. He was saying, in effect, "This trailer so closely resembles my old anime that it gave me horrible twinges based off a previous traumatic event", which makes the reader not take PTSD with the seriousness that they should.

Whether he "suffers symptoms of PTSD" or not, pointing out that you have them for the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work makes you a massive ass. He shouldn't have bothered bringing them up. I mean, reading your response gave ME "symptoms of PTSD", but do you care? I don't.

You do realize that splitting hairs so thin that they're strings of atoms doesn't make you clever, right? You prove nothing and annoy people.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Alight, lets say he suffered symptoms of PTSD.

You still do not say you suffered from PTSD symptoms. It implies that you have PTSD.

Yes, it's technically true, but him saying that is like me saying I had "radiation sickness like symptoms" after eating a half cooked fish at a shady stand under a dock. Its hyperbolic and ultimately misleading. Like I do not have to deal with cancer this guy does not have to deal with the soul crushing depression that comes from real PTSD.

There's a big difference. Firstly, radiation sickness is caused by radiation, and cancer is a long term effect of radiation exposure, not a symptom of radiation sickness. Also, I completely understand the parallel between the two and would not consider it misleading at all.

PTSD, on the other hand, can be caused by an enormous amount of experiences that can vary wildly between each individual. The same with what triggers it after it has set in. This is a psychological affliction with much more abstract and hard to pin down cause and effect. Ultimately, the only person who can determine whether or not his reaction to this particular event is like PTSD or not is Ooshima himself. And you, not only doubting his reaction, but also reacting to a single word of his description out of context, is very unseemly.

I can say I have PTSD or cancer till the cows come home. Still doesn't make it true and still makes me look like and asshole when its not.

I'm not going to say that seemingly harmless things like trailers to action shows can't set some people off but consider the context of the article. It implies that he suffered PTSD symptoms not because of the big flashy action sequences but because he was apparently so shocked at how similar his manga was to the show, which seems incredibly unlikely. What is much more realistic is that he hoped to garner some sympathy by linking his reaction to the trailer to that suffered by military veterans or rape victims.

Don't call me unseemly because I can see bullshit when I read it.

 

[PunkRex]

My girlfriend actually has PTSD and after reading his comments, now I'm pissed off. What an ignorant silly butt to claim he has feelings similar to PTSD after watching a trailer.

You win one internet for calling him a silly butt.

OT: Really, really, REALLY? PTSD from a freaking trailer!

I feel for any artist who have had their work copied but come on fella, Kill la Kill's as much a rip off as Gurren Lagann is a Gundam clone. It's really well animated shit and giggles with some memorable lines thrown in, almost a parody... kind of, the good type that actually takes itself seriously... not in terms of subject matter but in actual effort... derp!

 

[chikusho]

Accurate or not, he's still being a massive asshole to people who suffer major PTSD symptoms over things that actually matter (no, a trailer to an anime that looks similar to yours does not matter).

So, are people who suffer from lesser PTSD symptoms are also being massive assholes?
Also, who are you to decide "what actually matters" anyway?

If it's accurate, that's even worse, because it more effectively trivializes the harrowing moments that actual PTSD sufferers experience. He was saying, in effect, "This trailer so closely resembles my old anime that it gave me horrible twinges based off a previous traumatic event", which makes the reader not take PTSD with the seriousness that they should.

PTSD covers a large spectrum of symptoms and varying degrees of severity.
By your argument, if someone lost a finger and called himself an amputee that would trivialize the term for people who lost a hand, who in turn would trivialize it for people who lost an arm.

Also, those are your words, not his. Your emphasis is on "trailer". It would be an equally likely assumption to make that he meant: "Being blatantly robbed of my life's work, knowing that I'm powerless to stop it, is causing me extreme levels of stress and depression / triggering feelings of utter helplessness from past trauma."

Whether he "suffers symptoms of PTSD" or not, pointing out that you have them for the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work makes you a massive ass. He shouldn't have bothered bringing them up. I mean, reading your response gave ME "symptoms of PTSD", but do you care? I don't.

I've never said anything about whether or not you should care about his feelings. In fact, I don't care. I have no vested interest in this anime or his old manga.
But, I mean, obviously you do, since otherwise you wouldn't be attacking him for having that reaction.

Also, it could just as likely be "the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work" as "the sole reason that it was his honest reaction". You have no reason to suspect either, yet you've obviously made your decision, based on next to no information.

You do realize that splitting hairs so thin that they're strings of atoms doesn't make you clever, right? You prove nothing and annoy people.

You do realize that making unfounded assumptions about other people in order to judge them doesn't make you clever, right? It proves nothing and makes the world a worse place.

I can say I have PTSD or cancer till the cows come home. Still doesn't make it true and still makes me look like and asshole when its not.

By this logic, since you don't have PTSD, Ooshima can't have it either? What are you trying to say?

I'm not going to say that seemingly harmless things like trailers to action shows can't set some people off but consider the context of the article. It implies that he suffered PTSD symptoms not because of the big flashy action sequences but because he was apparently so shocked at how similar his manga was to the show, which seems incredibly unlikely. What is much more realistic is that he hoped to garner some sympathy by linking his reaction to the trailer to that suffered by military veterans or rape victims.

If PTSD was only about violent trauma, you might've had a point.
Although, it's not, and you don't.

Don't call me unseemly because I can see bullshit when I read it.

Oh, I'm not. I'm calling you unseemly because you're ready to call bullshit on something that you know nothing about.

 

[lacktheknack]

Not gonna bother with your whole post, because we clearly don't see things on the same level, but:

Also, it could just as likely be "the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work" as "the sole reason that it was his honest reaction". You have no reason to suspect either, yet you've obviously made your decision, based on next to no information.

It is not "just as likely" and to say it is is to completely fail at both probability and basic human psychology.

Suffering genuine PTSD symptoms because someone makes a similar product as you is an unusual (and pathetic, I maintain) situation with literally no comparable examples that I can think of.

Being a jackass to make a point, however, is VERY common and I can think of hundreds of examples off my Facebook wall alone.

From that alone, no, I can feel VERY safe thinking that he's being a jackass to make a point. Heck, I'd put my life's savings on it.

 

[Cybylt]

I've been reading manga since the 90s. I can't even beging to tell you how many times I've felt like I've already read something before. It's all large collections of tropes that imitate eachother. For example:

*Dragonball Z + Yu Yu Hakusho = Hunter x Hunter.
*Hunter x Hunter + .hack// + Diabolo = GetBackers.
*Hunter x Hunter + food porn = Toriko.
*Slayers + gender swap = Gokudo & Orphan Revenge.
*Slayers + ecchi = Dragon Half.
*Petshop of Horrors + Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro = Black Butler.
*Legal Drug - CLAMP + guns & smoking = Wild Adapter.
*Marmalade Boy + Chou Gals = Peach Girl.
*Fist of the North Star + Devilman = Zero Apocalypse.
*Gunsmith Cats + outer space = Dirty Pair & Project A-Ko Battle Versus.
*Cutie Honey + violence = Devilman Woman.
*Yu-Gi-Oh + Pretear = Card Captor Sakura.
*DNA 2 - ecchi + homoerotic tension = DNAngel.
*Azumanga Daioh + all boy's school = Sukigake Cramortie High.
*Sukigake Cramortie High + Great Teacher Onizuka - Onizuka = Gukosen.
*Kino no Tabi + gender swap = King of Bandit Jing (moreso in the anime version).

Pretty much. Anime's been getting increasingly insular since the later 90's, on top of a lot of stuff being very formulaic. So I don't get why this guy is crying foul in an industry where "genre" pretty much means almost exactly the same show.

It's not like he made something out of the box or original in the first place either. As others pointed out, Utena was the ur-example of this particular subgenre and both Noise and KlK have a lot in common with it.

Hell you don't see Akira Toriyama bitching that Bleach and Naruto are plagiarizing Dragon Ball or DBZ.
You don't hear about Go Nagai or Ken Ishikawa claiming PTSD after watching Gundam, Eva, or a Magical Girl show. I mean, Ishikawa isn't going to be claiming much of anything what with being dead, but still.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Oh, I'm not. I'm calling you unseemly because you're ready to call bullshit on something that you know nothing about.

And you know soooooo much more about it I'm sure.

You talk a lot about not jumping to conclusions. How the hell do you know that I'm not an authority on the subject? You assume that I'm not and you would be correct even though you have no evidence to prove that I'm not.

Like lacktheknack said, the odds of him actually having PTSD-like reaction from simply watching a trailer that reminded him of one of his old mangas is absurdly low. Again, what is MUCH more feasible is that he is trying to garner sympathy by using PTSD as a sort of short hand for tragic victim OR, and I grant him this benefit of the doubt, he is unfamiliar with the connotation which comes with the word or was mistranslated, as that seems more likely from my rather optimistic viewpoint than someone really trying to claim they experienced PTSD from an anime trailer.

Don't believe everything people say.

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

this Ooshima person sounds like an asshat.

I recommend Ooshima actually watches Kill la Kill before making such a serious claim. There are many anime/manga that use of the same tropes and cliches as each other while still different enough not to be called a plagiarization. I have not seen Kill la Kill or read this his manga but I know claiming Plagiarism based off a trailer makes one sound like an asshat.