March Mayhem 2011 Is Over, Mojang Wins!
- Thread starter Spinwhiz
- Start date
Now for my opinions on the actual contest:
I wouldn't call myself much of a gamer (which raises the question as to why I joined a gaming forum (although it has other things; I still get a kick out of ZP)), so consider this an outsider's view.
Now, as I understand it, Indie and Mainstream are two separate leagues of game making. I'll come back to this later.
As we all know, it's easy to call the titans that are the mainstream game companies soulless. But as we also all know, they have made some truly outstanding games. Some companies have created gaming legacies that have spanned decades. So when an indie developer gets to dethrone 6 legacies with an unfinished game (It's a great game, but let's call it what it is), people are going to feel more than a little ripped off. Indie games aren't even in the same league, so why should they even get to compete? Let alone win.
That's the reasoning I went with, and if I stopped there, it would seem obvious that Mohang shouldn't have made it past the 1st round. But there's a nagging doubt in the back of my mind. There are flat values, and then there are percentages; in golf, there are scores, and then there are handicaps; good, and good for you category.
Indie games lack the luxury of being able to throw money at a problem (not that throwing money at a problem is necessarily a bad thing; you don't need innovation to fill in potholes, so to speak), so they have to resort to innovation. Mohang has roughly 1% of the employees BioWare has, and doesn't have a budget you could run a small town on, and has still managed to create a very popular game, without much in terms of an advertising budget. The same way I can lift 100 pounds, but an ant can lift 50 times it's own body weight, the assumption seems to be that if Mohang and BioWare were on even footing, Mohang would be making better games than BioWare. However, an ant my size wouldn't be able to lift 10,000 pounds, and as companies get bigger, the rules change. You trade flexibility for power.
Where do i stand? With comments like "I'm not voting for BioWare, I'm voting against Mohang" being used as reasoning for votes, voting based on the actual merits of developers, if it was ever present, was diminished after the first round. The same way the side length of a cube grows progressively, while its volume grows exponentially, things don't always scale evenly. Both indie and mainstream developers have merits, but they don't play by the same rules, and thus I don't think they can be compared fairly.
I wouldn't call myself much of a gamer (which raises the question as to why I joined a gaming forum (although it has other things; I still get a kick out of ZP)), so consider this an outsider's view.
Now, as I understand it, Indie and Mainstream are two separate leagues of game making. I'll come back to this later.
As we all know, it's easy to call the titans that are the mainstream game companies soulless. But as we also all know, they have made some truly outstanding games. Some companies have created gaming legacies that have spanned decades. So when an indie developer gets to dethrone 6 legacies with an unfinished game (It's a great game, but let's call it what it is), people are going to feel more than a little ripped off. Indie games aren't even in the same league, so why should they even get to compete? Let alone win.
That's the reasoning I went with, and if I stopped there, it would seem obvious that Mohang shouldn't have made it past the 1st round. But there's a nagging doubt in the back of my mind. There are flat values, and then there are percentages; in golf, there are scores, and then there are handicaps; good, and good for you category.
Indie games lack the luxury of being able to throw money at a problem (not that throwing money at a problem is necessarily a bad thing; you don't need innovation to fill in potholes, so to speak), so they have to resort to innovation. Mohang has roughly 1% of the employees BioWare has, and doesn't have a budget you could run a small town on, and has still managed to create a very popular game, without much in terms of an advertising budget. The same way I can lift 100 pounds, but an ant can lift 50 times it's own body weight, the assumption seems to be that if Mohang and BioWare were on even footing, Mohang would be making better games than BioWare. However, an ant my size wouldn't be able to lift 10,000 pounds, and as companies get bigger, the rules change. You trade flexibility for power.
Where do i stand? With comments like "I'm not voting for BioWare, I'm voting against Mohang" being used as reasoning for votes, voting based on the actual merits of developers, if it was ever present, was diminished after the first round. The same way the side length of a cube grows progressively, while its volume grows exponentially, things don't always scale evenly. Both indie and mainstream developers have merits, but they don't play by the same rules, and thus I don't think they can be compared fairly.
I like Dragon Age 2. And pretty much every BioWare game I've played.
Never played Minecraft. If I wanted to spend my limited free time creating random stuff, I would just do what I normally do: draw or animate. If I wanted to build a castle, I could just model it in Maya and it would look... at least twice as good as any Minecraft castle.
BioWare games provide a story and an experience that I can't create for myself and I appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into that.
But... for what it's worth, congrats to Mojang--er, Minecraft and Notch actually--for whatever this contest means. The advertising deal is a nice thing for The Escapist to do and I think they probably would benefit most from it, considering they don't have the marketing muscle of EA or Activision.
Just make sure you live up to this, Mojang. Don't start sucking and make me have to start saying "I told you so" to anyone.
Never played Minecraft. If I wanted to spend my limited free time creating random stuff, I would just do what I normally do: draw or animate. If I wanted to build a castle, I could just model it in Maya and it would look... at least twice as good as any Minecraft castle.
BioWare games provide a story and an experience that I can't create for myself and I appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into that.
But... for what it's worth, congrats to Mojang--er, Minecraft and Notch actually--for whatever this contest means. The advertising deal is a nice thing for The Escapist to do and I think they probably would benefit most from it, considering they don't have the marketing muscle of EA or Activision.
Just make sure you live up to this, Mojang. Don't start sucking and make me have to start saying "I told you so" to anyone.
Unexpected outcome, but I never really followed this year's (or lats year's) MM. I don't really care about it enough.
I hope Notch adds something special to Minecraft, like how he won Indie Game of the Year on MODDB and he added cake.
I didn't expect it either, really suprised me.
I hope Notch adds something special to Minecraft, like how he won Indie Game of the Year on MODDB and he added cake.
SinisterSpadeV2 said:
I didn't expect it either, really suprised me.
That's exactly what I said on one of my posts on the main thread. It would be like comparing a couple animators who made an awesome short to the entirety of Pixar. The realities just aren't the same and can't be compared without some significant qualifiers and asterisks coming into play.Duncan Belfast said:
Oh and it's "Mojang".
How just how they don't even have a signal complete game yet.
I know that dragon age 2 was bad and all but did not think it would damm Biowear.
I know that dragon age 2 was bad and all but did not think it would damm Biowear.
OK, that's it, I'm starting a new studio named Slamurai. We're releasing an alpha of a game called Super Slam-o-Rama Robot Monkeycraft that costs 25 dollars to download. It may not be a full game, but it has full Nintendo 64 graphics and you play as a monkey who farts out rainbow zombie crackheads. But the game is fully customizable in how many ways your monkey can fart out rainbow zombie crackheads. I plan on releasing the full game for 50 dollars sometime in 2026, where I hope to have upgraded to PS 1 graphics.
Can't wait to be in MM next year, maybe Slamurai can beat Nintendo and Valve too!
Can't wait to be in MM next year, maybe Slamurai can beat Nintendo and Valve too!
I think it's great since Mojang could use the advertising space more than the titans it toppled. Minecraft is a fun little sandbox, and this should really give Mojang a chance to add a lot more to it with all the new attention they will be getting.
Sure, Blizzard/Valve/Nintendo could have won, but what would it have done for them? We all already know them and whatever ad space the Escapist could give them would be insignificant for them. Better I say that a little indie developer take the win in this competition, it gives them a chance to really better their company.
Frankly, I don't really see a reason for big studios to even be included in this tournament; their popularity is already established after all. Congrats Mojang, now make the best of it.
Sure, Blizzard/Valve/Nintendo could have won, but what would it have done for them? We all already know them and whatever ad space the Escapist could give them would be insignificant for them. Better I say that a little indie developer take the win in this competition, it gives them a chance to really better their company.
Frankly, I don't really see a reason for big studios to even be included in this tournament; their popularity is already established after all. Congrats Mojang, now make the best of it.
Hee hee. Called it. Well done, Mojang!
Here's to new and interesting ways to corrupt a competition and to the joys of human conflict and argument. I wonder if any developers will give the big four a run for their money next year. Portal 2 may just grant Valve the ability to say, "I win forever. Get used to it." Although if Duke Nukem does finally arrive, maybe Gearbox...ah, but those are debates for a year from now.
Thank you, Escapist, for giving us a competition that was truly worthy of the name "Madness". And thank you, fellow forumites, for fighting tooth, nail, and earlobe for the ones that own your souls.
Now I'm off to play Stacking. One day, my precious Double Fine, one day...
Here's to new and interesting ways to corrupt a competition and to the joys of human conflict and argument. I wonder if any developers will give the big four a run for their money next year. Portal 2 may just grant Valve the ability to say, "I win forever. Get used to it." Although if Duke Nukem does finally arrive, maybe Gearbox...ah, but those are debates for a year from now.
Thank you, Escapist, for giving us a competition that was truly worthy of the name "Madness". And thank you, fellow forumites, for fighting tooth, nail, and earlobe for the ones that own your souls.
Now I'm off to play Stacking. One day, my precious Double Fine, one day...
