Marines posed with Nazi SS symbol in Afghanistan

Terminal Blue

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Tomeran said:
That isnt the SS-symbol. Its similar, but its not identical. To all that argue that its an exact match, it even says in the article that its only "similar".
Look it up at wiki and you'll see what im talking about.
Now go and look for replica flags, you'll see the sig runes used in many different ways because flags aren't always exactly the same. In fact, you can buy exactly the same flag from a german-oriented memorabilia site, here [http://www.totls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:close-out-corner&catid=1:home&Itemid=30], clearly marked as a replica SS flag.

Some marine went on the internet, went to a site specializing in Axis memorabilia (quite possible that one, but even if it wasn't a specific SS flag variant is extremely unlikely to show up in a general memorabilia retailer) bought a flag and decided to pose with it.

I could buy that this was a mistake, but to claim as such means that someone bought a flag from a memorabilia site where it's surrounded by flags with swastikas and the hinomaru and then posed with it because they didn't understand what it was. That's not just a bit absent minded, that's criminally stupid.
 

Akimoto

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Is it wrong of me to assume they slept through history class? The symbol looks cool sure, but the association with the Nazi SS guarantees the symbol a place in the dustbins of history.
 

Patrick Buck

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I love the way the chaplain says they couldn't have known, because they're marines.
I read that as "They're too stupid to know." or "They are the shining saints of all that is holy."
Either way, that makes the chaplain sound like an arsehole.
And this really isn't the first time i've seen things like this, so his point is invlaid anyway.
Hope I didn't sound to much of an arsehole posting that.
 

JoesshittyOs

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LetalisK said:
Pimppeter2 said:
Elemantary - Dear Watson said:
Looks more like the Kiss logo to me...!

And they didn't say they thought it meant that... they said their SS meant sniper scout... Sounds like you have right and truely jumpend on the media over exaggeration already...!
Oh, and my me sticking my middle finger at them I'm not saying Fuck you. No no no.

No, to me it means "Good job boys". Yeah, that's it...
Because symbols have universal meaning, right? I doubt the Marines weren't somehow cognizant of what it may have been tied to, but that is a horrible counter-argument.
Don't try to bullshit anyone. An army group, especially the marines, who fought in that exact same war which incidentally was the last time we could undeniably call ourselves the good guys, know what that symbol means.

There are 10 people there. 10 soldiers who undergo some of the toughest training the US military has to offer. You can't become a sniper by being as dull-witted as that.

They know full well what that symbol means.

As for the people who are calling for an investigation... Investigation of what? What are you planning to punish them for? Bad taste?

Anyways, the Nazi flags and symbols popped up a bunch around the Vietnam era. People just tended to turn a blind eye back then, though apparently they were using it for more ironic means.

But for fuck's sakes, what the hell is going on with the Marines nowadays? I think we've seen enough in the passed month to realize that there are way too many morons in this branch of military to think that this is normal. First the pissing on the dead soldiers, this fiasco, and (while I realize this is much more personal) one of the marines that I knew ended up posting a Facebook post telling friends and family to "grow up" over a kid who had gotten killed by a drug dealer no more than four hours earlier.

The brainwashing and type of people it attracts is clearly a problem.
 

teebeeohh

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wow, a lot of people pointing out how this looks cool. maybe it's because i am german and get "nothing even vaguely related to nazi Germany may be cool" into our skulls from a young age but i don't see it.

while i don't think that everyone needs to know what the SS insignia looks like at least one of the guys in the picture should have realized what a major fuckup this may turn out to be
 

GoaThief

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I honestly can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. It's like a perfect storm of national pride, blind patriotism, ignorance, children, and the downright disingenuous.

Fact; that is a replica SS flag.

It's completely fucking unacceptable.
 

JoesshittyOs

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[zonking great said:
]
Buretsu said:
[zonking great said:
]God. I can't believe some you people are defending those moronic snipers.
American ignorance much?
Anti-american bias much?
Bringing the truth. It often hurts Americans. *ruffles Buretsu's animephile hair* It's ok sonny, just close your eyes. Everything will go away. Patronisation Man, AWAY!
Oh Garsh. Look! It's another European who judges an entire group and culture of people based on preconceptions he's never actually experienced! Haven't seen one of you in about 15 seconds!

My turn!

Europeans. They like cheese and being poor! AMIRITE?!
 

Sarcastic_Applause

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Elemantary - Dear Watson said:
Look... As an Officer in the military I have been deployed with guys like this, and you know what... they do stuff like that all the time without knowing! I had to get a guy to recover some folders once because he put pics of Templar Knights all over them, but didn't even think of the imagary, he just liked the pictures...

You got to understand the media put shit spin on all things like that... The story is probably not anything like it says, and it probably is the SS from the Kiss logo.. The Marines probably didn't put the two and two together, that's now that they are trained to do... on the other hand, what they are trained to do they are damn good at! I'd like to see you keep your obviously far superior head while its being fired at...

That's the difference between them and you... it seems obvious to you.. it doesn't to them.

And yes, I would defend this to the bone. The guys fuck-up from time to time, I know that, but it's my job to understand why they do, and to steer them from doing it again! And even though I am not of the same country as these guys, I have worked with them and understand that yes... that can be a naive mistake!
From this perspective, i can understand how they could've made this mistake.
I'm guessing, to the soldiers, thats the way they perceive it, it's only when people attach a bigger meaning to these things that it becomes an issue
 

Staskala

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Spartan1362 said:
That's wrong though. The Buddhist swastika is called Swastika in German, the Nazi "swastika" Hakenkreuz.
Hakenkreuz is not German for swastika as German clearly differentiates between the 2 symbols. Both also have a completely different historical background.
I'll never get why English language speakers and others group the NSDAP symbol together with dozens of other, similar symbols.
 

Capt. Crankypants

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Fair enough to a few of the posts here saying they don't recognise it, but really, we're 'internet people' here. I sure as hell recognise it, anyone with a fleeting knowledge or interest in WWII would recognise it, and I find it either A) 'Hard to believe', or B) 'Depressing' that none of the 10 or 11 or however many people involved in that photo had the general knowledge to make the connection.

Dumb grunts? I dunno. Only they know what was going on.
 

katsabas

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Looking like the Kiss logo ? Seriously ?!

You mean to tell me that this



looks like this ?



Has anybody that made this comparison ever managed to complete a 'connect the dots' ? Huh ?

Rant over. Things are bad enough there already without stupid decisions for photos.

Edit: this was for whoever made the comparison. About the guys in the photo, well, someone should filter this stuff better.
 

mirasiel

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I see your 'looks sort of like something nazi-ish, thus all americans are bad' and raise you 1 possible future head of state in a nice nazi unform :)


Prince Harry (also a member of the British military)in Hilarious fancy dress, didnt see the problem...

Fucking Euros/Brits, typical Eurotrash ignorance, don't they know any better :p

British btw.
 

Beliyal

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evilthecat said:
The sig rune is not a generic symbol. It doesn't depict anything, It has no meaning whatsoever outside of German occultism and fascist imagery, apart from the common misconception that it's a letter 's'. The historical rune upon which its based doesn't even look anything like that (and in fact looks much more like an 's').
I'd just like to make something clear(er); the sig rune (alternately, sigel or sowilo) has meaning and depicts something (that's why the Nazis chose to use it). It's a rune, and each rune stands for one letter and has specific meaning that goes along with it (because runes were not just a writing system, but were also used for divination, because they were of "divine origin"; given to people by Odin). The sigel rune is a symbol for the Sun, wholeness and victory, and is of course the letter S. The Nazis adopted it and changed it a bit, so it doesn't look the same as the one from the elder futhark (or other runic scripts), but it still is the sigel rune and it's very similar, and it fitted their needs. They were very thorough and specific about symbols and they adopted many other runes too (for example the odal/othilo rune and hagal/hagalaz, and other). Each rune was somewhat re-designed, but they were taken from the varying runic scripts of the ancient Nordic peoples and were taken exactly because of that. The SS symbol is a perversion of the sigel rune, just as the swastika is a perversion of the swastika symbol (which dates back as far as the beginning of the metal ages, maybe even further back). Not all Nazis were obsessed by this, but Himmler was, and he had his... personal "occultist" practically design the SS symbol.

What I'm trying to say is, the sig rune is not meaningless, same way the Nazi swastika isn't. That's both good and bad; the good being the fact that they changed it just enough so you can differentiate between a Nazi symbol and a non-Nazi symbol, while the bad being the fact that they perverted an otherwise ancient, beautiful and meaningful symbols, used by people throughout the world. Still, people will probably forever link the runes and swastikas with Nazis.

Obviously, these marines either never went to school (or watched a movie) or they knew what the SS symbol is and they didn't care or they got it on purpose. I don't know which one of those is the truth, however, I agree with you with the fact that you can't get that kind of a flag in your local mall; you have to get it specifically from a Neo-Nazi site (or from a person who got it there). I have nothing against people using runes for their logos (I personally have two runes tattooed on me, and a sigel rune (not the SS one, obviously) carved in a little piece of wood as a necklace). However, due to the fact that the SS symbol is very well known (maybe I speak from my European background, but seriously; if not in school, you can see the SS symbol in just about any WWII movie), I am reluctant to believe that they just accidentally stumbled upon this symbol and failed to find the description for it. Or maybe they did, and they didn't care. Which is almost just as sad.