Marines posed with Nazi SS symbol in Afghanistan

[peruvianskys]

It's not so much that I'm horribly offended, but that I'm just amazed by the incredible ineptitude required to make a mistake like this. It's like when Sarah Palin used the term "blood libel" - I wouldn't accuse her of antisemitism, but I'd definitely accuse her of being fucking retarded enough to say something that dumb. It's the same way with Don Imus or any other famous person/group that has been raked over the coals for a racist or otherwise bigoted statement; it's rarely that the public thinks they're legitimately racist, but far more because the public is astounded at their stupidity.

Thirty years it's been in use? Thirty fucking years and no one once said, "Hey maybe we should take ten seconds to GOOGLE FUCKING SEARCH what this symbol means?" Is no one paying attention? These guys don't come off as neo-Nazis to me; they just come off as incredibly negligent at best and fucking stupid at worst. Even if it had been the NAACP, an organization obviously no one will accuse of being meaningfully in support of white power, I would still respond the same way - with a goddamn facepalm.

 

[DirtyJunkieScum]

Maybe they just like Slayer?

Spoiler

See, nothing SS'esque about them, the bottom one even says wehrmacht!

 

[CrazyJew]

It's the Scout Sniper logo. End of discussion.

Nazi SS symbol. Discussion can continue.

Kiss stylized S.

Well then, blame whoever designed the logo, not the marines themselves.

Fair enough. But the marines seem a little dumb. If they thought it was the kiss logo than they should have realized it was a different symbol, if they thought it was an S they have a loose grasp of English script, otherwise they knew it was the Sig rune. Either way the marine that proposed the flag and those that followed blindly need reprimanded. While i doubt our scout sniper corps are neo-nazis they are negligent and stupid. I also figure that if the men deciding this were all kiss fans i assume ONE of them would know it was not the right symbol.

And for the sake of others i will explain how the S symbosl are different.

The S on the flag and SS symbol is the Sig rune from the Armanen scripts. As you can see from both the flag and the patch that the center is angled downward. Whereas the Kiss logo is not at such an angle. More so is only one of the two symbols shown looks like an S in English writing. If you guessed the Kiss logo you are correct. It is not an easy mistake and was made either by sheer stupidity or ignorance and both options had a hint of malice as the person proposing the flag likely understood its origin.
Also i hope we swap the story on the OP to this one. http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2012/02/chris-rodda-mrff-senior-research-director-those-marines-bought-an-ss-flag-without-knowing-what-it-was-seriously-that%E2%80%99s-your-excuse/
It seems to put a better view on it. One less soaked in hate.

Maybe some research should be made on WHEN that logo was created. USMC existed before the ShcutzStaffel, so the question is, how long ago did that specific logo get designed.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Soldiers dispatched to oppress people of a certain race by a country hell-bent on starting wars and using copious amounts of propaganda to make themselves look like the good guys posing with this flag is more appropriate than anyone might've thought. You know what parallells I'm drawing here.

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's one of the more egregious examples of Godwin's law I've seen, and I've been compared to hitler for saying people shouldn't smoke in public.

Yeah, you caught me. I was kidding. An idiotic joke, I admit in retrospect.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Yes, that's their symbol since the 80s. That doesn't change the fact that its an offensive logo that should be replaced.

Apparently it's not an official logo, it's just something soldiers started using in their own posters, badges and tattoos. Commandant General Amos (head of the USMC) responded to this by calling for everyone in the corps to be made aware that they shouldn't use the symbol again, and the particular guys in question have apparently agreed. No further disciplinary action is likely.

That's enough for me, actually. I'm far more pissed off with the military fanboys and armchair generals trying to justify this than I am with the soldiers themselves, though it seems truly, monumentally stupid that this got past so many people.

But I can't speak for everyone, I can promise that there will be some people who will have shed quite understandable tears over this. I can't expect those people to be as forgiving.

 

[anthony87]

It's the Scout Sniper logo. End of discussion.

Yeah. It's defintely the Scout Sniper logo.

So how come the flag had this:

http://starbuck.home.uit.no/ekran/nazismexposed/local/images/symbols/ss_flag_s.png

The two images here are clearly different.

 

[notsosavagemessiah]

Simply put, they are lying. I've been active duty before and I'm well aware that there are plenty of racists in the military. I'm also well aware of the fact that none of these guys are so dumb as to not know what that is or what it means. They took that symbol as their own because they figured everybody else was too goddamn dumb to figure it out, or that they could explain it away. The marines like to not get their troops in trouble when they can help it and in this situation when marines are claiming to be naive to the symbols meaning they can just shrug it off without any real problems for anybody. Justice neglected yet again by the u.s. marine corp.

 

[anthony87]

It's the Scout Sniper logo. End of discussion.

Yeah. It's defintely the Scout Sniper logo.

So how come the flag had this:

http://starbuck.home.uit.no/ekran/nazismexposed/local/images/symbols/ss_flag_s.png

The two images here are clearly different.

Is this actually a rebuttal?

It's not like you can just order Scout Sniper logos from amazon while you're in Afghanistan. What you have there is probably a promptu flag, either hastily found on google images, or MADE by one of the Marines.

Are you expecting some detailed work of art? A flag maker to be cattering to the every whim of every unit in the military?

The two images are NOT that different. You're being difficult (or you're bringing your predispositions into the discussion - most likely anti military).

EDIT: Oh wait, you're Italian.. you're probably just anti American. nevermind...

The images ARE that different. The only thing that they both have in common is the "SS" looking symbol.

The "SS" flag has ONLY that-a big white "SS" looking symbol.

The Scout Sniper one has the writing, the skull, the guns arranged in a cross formation, the crosshairs and numbers over the "SS" looking part.

Clear differences. If a Marine made it, why not use the same colour scheme? Why not have the words "Scout Sniper"? Why not put the crosshairs over the "SS" symbol? Don't get me wrong now, I do in fact think that it was an honest mistake but mistake or no, the flag they're posing with IS an SS flag.

I'm not anti-military or anti-American. However I am anti-moron. Something that you proved you are just now by saying I'm Italian.

I'm IRISH you fool. Learn to read a flag before you try bringing nationality into a discussion.

 

[Jim Profit]

This should not come as a shock to anybody, there was more to the Nazis then "JEWS!!!" and swastikas...

Many first world countries adore fascism, and just know better then to don a swastika, as they've saved that for the cartoon super villain, political straw man. But in essence, many countries, including the Jewish state of Israel... are fascist regimes.

Hell, the congressional house has the bundled sticks and pick axe of Fascist Italy. If you don't believe me, watch CSPAN.

America is less of an Italian Fascism, (that'd be more like China) or a Nazi fascism, (that'd be more like Israel) and more of the ancient Rome sort.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I blame that goshdarned rock and roll music.

Music. Always turning our children either into Communists or Fascists. By the way Miracle I'm awaiting your orders on the subjugation of your enemies.

 

[RobinEggs]

I saw the SS symbol on a forum thread a few weeks ago and thought "huh, what's that thing"?

I also visited DC this summer, spending an entire day between the Holocaust museum and the Smithsonian exhibits on American wars. I've read Schindler's List, Night, Man's Search for Meaning, the Diary of Anne Frank, etc. Most of them more than once.

Sometimes people forget things, or didn't learn some details in the first place. That doesn't mean they're ignorant, hateful, or under-educated. Why are people so desperate for conspiracy theories?

Move along here, there's nothing to see.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I wouldn't recognise that as a nazi symbol. The media hammers the swastika into your brain but the SS logo barely gets shown, ever. It looks like part of the Kiss logo.

This isn't news. Those soldiers are out there risking their lives for you, but you start kicking and screaming over a stupid photo? Really?

 

[t3h br0th3r]

It's the Scout Sniper logo. End of discussion.

Yeah. It's defintely the Scout Sniper logo.

So how come the flag had this:

http://starbuck.home.uit.no/ekran/nazismexposed/local/images/symbols/ss_flag_s.png

The two images here are clearly different.

Is this actually a rebuttal?

It's not like you can just order Scout Sniper logos from amazon while you're in Afghanistan. What you have there is probably a promptu flag, either hastily found on google images, or MADE by one of the Marines.

Are you expecting some detailed work of art? A flag maker to be cattering to the every whim of every unit in the military?

The two images are NOT that different. You're being difficult (or you're bringing your predispositions into the discussion - most likely anti military).

EDIT: Oh wait, you're Italian.. you're probably just anti American. nevermind...

The images ARE that different. The only thing that they both have in common is the "SS" looking symbol.

The "SS" flag has ONLY that-a big white "SS" looking symbol.

The Scout Sniper one has the writing, the skull, the guns arranged in a cross formation, the crosshairs and numbers over the "SS" looking part.

Clear differences. If a Marine made it, why not use the same colour scheme? Why not have the words "Scout Sniper"? Why not put the crosshairs over the "SS" symbol? Don't get me wrong now, I do in fact think that it was an honest mistake but mistake or no, the flag they're posing with IS an SS flag.

I'm not anti-military or anti-American. However I am anti-moron. Something that you proved you are just now by saying I'm Italian.

I'm IRISH you fool. Learn to read a flag before you try bringing nationality into a discussion.

No, this is the difference between Europe, who had to deal with those douchebags in house and therefore knows there flags super well, and Americans who came in at the end and finished the fight.

while we all know the swatzitia is bad news the dual S thingy isn't that well known over here.

on top of that the flag is blue instead of the red, white, and black we associate with the Natizs.

and on top of that the S is in the same font as it is on their logo. Its an honest mistake.

also, as a man with no clear homeland (I'm black and no, an entire super diverse continent does not count), i really hope you can keep your ethics out of it, they add nothing to the conversation.

 

[RobinEggs]

Speaking of controversial imagery, check out this image of a swastika hidden in the roof of a San Diego naval barracks.

Nazi sailors! OMG! [http://www.google.com/imgres?q=barracks+shaped+like+swastika&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=670&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=FE8mC6l1D6KVkM:&imgrefurl=http://www.sddialedin.com/2007/09/are-you-kidding-with-this-coronado-navy.html&docid=KlewM3aq-ecUKM&imgurl=http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z160/divebarchick/coronado.jpg&w=640&h=516&ei=Sl44T9LyN6TC0AHz7uCjAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=721&vpy=53&dur=197&hovh=202&hovw=250&tx=100&ty=112&sig=108038254289092864605&page=3&tbnh=151&tbnw=186&start=37&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:37]

Now look at a larger image of the whole complex.

Wait a minute... [http://www.google.com/imgres?q=barracks+shaped+like+swastika&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=670&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=SVyJD_PEm5CpBM:&imgrefurl=http://www.sddialedin.com/2007/09/are-you-kidding-with-this-coronado-navy.html&docid=KlewM3aq-ecUKM&imgurl=http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z160/divebarchick/coronado2.jpg&w=640&h=516&ei=Sl44T9LyN6TC0AHz7uCjAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=298&sig=108038254289092864605&page=3&tbnh=151&tbnw=186&start=37&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:37&tx=176&ty=85]


Notice the airplane shapes hidden in those other two buildings, poised to bomb the swastika?

And yet the navy spent fucking $600,000 to obscure the swastika shape in 2007 because people are so god damned over-sensitive they can't handle any hint of controversial imagery outside of its officially sanctioned memorial context, especially when it comes to Nazis. Get a grip, people. There's no damn conspiracy, and it's getting a little old seeing every last instance of ignorant appropriation called an injustice, a 'slap in the face', etc.