Marvel Giving Thor's Hammer New Female Friendly Inscription

StewShearerOld

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Marvel Giving Thor's Hammer New Female Friendly Inscription



With a female Thor coming in October, Marvel has decided to change the inscription on Mjolnir to read "she" instead of "he."

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

With those lofty words <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/marvel%20comics>Marvel formed the foundation of one of its most endearing heroes: the mighty Thor. That being the case, change is on the horizon. Marvel will be releasing a new comic series <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136159-Thor-Is-Getting-Gender-Flipped-Officially>this October wherein the titular God of Thunder will be supplanted by a new <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/gallery/view/26/136159/2858.2>Asgardian goddess who will take on his mantle and powers.

Thiss in mind, the publisher has revealed that it will be altering the inscription on the hammer Mjolnir to be more appropriate to the new Thor's gender. In the new comic, the inscription (viewable in art published at ComicBook.com) on the famous weapon will now read, "Whosoever holds this hammer, if she be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

Now granted, as far as alterations go, this isn't the most Earth-shaking thing we've seen to come out Marvel. That being the case, it's still the sort of fodder that we could see some purists using to fuel the fires of their discontent. What do you think about the new inscription? Is this one altered word a big deal? A necessary change? A step over the line? We're eager to hear your impressions on this and your thoughts on the new Thor in general.

Source: Comic Book


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Fappy

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Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
 

JarinArenos

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The hammer magically changing its inscription to suit its current wielder sounds perfectly logical to me. It's by far the least fantastic feature of that artifact.
 

Sniper Team 4

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I can't tell from the picture, but I think it'd be awesome if we get to see it change. Like she grabs it, and as the lightning swirls around her hand, a bolt etches the new word into the hammer itself.

Is that what's happening in the picture?
 

Fappy

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Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
How could I forget that! D'oh!

JarinArenos said:
The hammer magically changing its inscription to suit its current wielder sounds perfectly logical to me. It's by far the least fantastic feature of that artifact.
Wait... ripping holes in time/space by spinning it really fast ISN'T outlandish?!

Sniper Team 4 said:
I can't tell from the picture, but I think it'd be awesome if we get to see it change. Like she grabs it, and as the lightning swirls around her hand, a bolt etches the new word into the hammer itself.

Is that what's happening in the picture?
I don't think so. Looks like a pretty standard "Mjolinr activation" scene. I have seen a lot of them XD
 

EdwardBerner

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Sniper Team 4 said:
I can't tell from the picture, but I think it'd be awesome if we get to see it change. Like she grabs it, and as the lightning swirls around her hand, a bolt etches the new word into the hammer itself.

Is that what's happening in the picture?
The text does indeed change as she picks the hammer up.
If you take a look at the source picture, which is in way higher quality, you can see that the inscription only says 'she' in the last frame.
 

anthony87

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"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
 

Zontar

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Well, makes sense. I'm just wondering how long it will take to reverse this and for Thor to get Mjolnir back (speaking of which, what is he even called now? It's not like it was some title, it was his name, how is getting depowered (again) make it logically flow to lose his name and oh dear I've gone cross-eyed)
 

erbkaiser

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Star Trek did the "inclusive" thing better, when it changed from "Where no man has gone before" to "Where no one has gone before".

If this was not just a stunt, they could have changed "he" to gender neutral "they".
 

Fappy

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EdwardBerner said:
Sniper Team 4 said:
I can't tell from the picture, but I think it'd be awesome if we get to see it change. Like she grabs it, and as the lightning swirls around her hand, a bolt etches the new word into the hammer itself.

Is that what's happening in the picture?
The text does indeed change as she picks the hammer up.
If you take a look at the source picture, which is in way higher quality, you can see that the inscription only says 'she' in the last frame.
I stand corrected. I didn't think to enlarge the image. Whoops >.>
 

Frozengale

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Shouldn't the hammer just be gender neutral?

I guess it changing to fit its wielder's gender is fine. But why not just make it "Whosoever holds this hammer, if THEY be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
 

bdcjacko

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Women don't need hammers to control lightning, they just need birth defects.
 

Qitz

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Sure, it can magically change it's inscription, but can it see Why Kids Love the Taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Also wouldn't be the first time someone else picked up Mjolnir and hopefully they make her as awesome as Thor + Beta Ray Bill.
 

Skeleon

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To me it'd seem more sensible to change it to:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if worthy, shall possess the power of Thor"
I'm not a native speaker, but I think it wouldn't be wrong, would it? Alternatively, have it say "if they be worthy" or something else that's neutral?
Also, I removed the "..." because that looks really shitty on an inscription. You don't have your inscription "pause for effect".
But, meh, it's Thor. Marvel. A comic. A comic I never read nor give a toss about. I'll let others debate this more thoroughly.

EDIT: Oh yeah, you folks are right: It says "he" in the upper panels and adds the "s" in the last one. The "s" is also of a slightly brighter colour, like it was just now magically etched into it. That's a nice idea, I guess. It's adaptive to the touch. But I still think a simple neutral option would be the nicest.
 

Nazrel

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Contrary to common misconception "He" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "She" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a Male/Female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
 

That Guy Ya Know

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To those saying it should change to be gender neutral I can see why they might not want to. Changing it to "she" implies the hammer changes to suit its wielder and you can say it's always been that way. On the other hand changing it to they is more of a correction, an admittance it should have been gender neutral all along and that it saying "he" before was wrong.

Or maybe I'm just over thinking this.
 

Fappy

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That Guy Ya Know said:
To those saying it should change to be gender neutral I can see why they might not want to. Changing it to "she" implies the hammer changes to suit its wielder and you can say it's always been that way. On the other hand changing it to they is more of a correction, an admittance it should have been gender neutral all along and that it saying "he" before was wrong.

Or maybe I'm just over thinking this.
Honestly, I think it's supposed to be more symbolic of the hammer changing hands rather than them trying to push some kind of political agenda. Sure, you could say there may be some kind of thematic undercurrent this scene will help explore, but I don't think we have enough information to work with to figure that out right now.
 

Trishbot

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It didn't change when Wonder Woman wielded it...

Which now has me wanting a new Marvel vs. DC crossover.
 

Sheen Lantern

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It should have been:

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
 

CelestDaer

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
Isn't that what Odin said in the first Thor movie?
 

hazabaza1

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On one hand, the idea that the hammer changes based on whoever is holding it is a neat idea, and I can certainly see why they did it.
On the other hand, having it stay a 'he' and allow her to wield would be a very Éowyn thing to happen so I think it would at least be a neat approach.

Still, I don't read comics so whatever I say is basically null and void!
 

Plasmadamage

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
I can't believe it took 8 posts to get to that
 

Redryhno

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Nazrel said:
Contrary to common misconception "He" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "She" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a Male/Female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
Don't be bringing logic and the history of words into a discussion like this 'un!
 

Machine Man 1992

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Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
 

Lightknight

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It's kind of funny. In a world where they already lazily slap "girl" or "woman" onto the name of a previously existing male hero to make copycat female ones, we see Marvel not even bother to give her her own name and that's seen as more progressive somehow?

It's still the same old problem. Female hero getting a male hero's motif slapped on.

Someday I hope Sif or any of the other very powerful and legitimate female heroes get the facetime they deserve. In the meantime, I guess I have to watch them just dick around with existing heroes in ways that should be insulting to everyone but today somehow aren't.

Frankly, I'm still peeved that Sif wasn't given this role as a female Asguardian icon.
 

StewShearerOld

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Considering they've also been messing with Thor since before we've been alive, I don't see what the big deal is now. People should never be surprised or upset when a comic book character changes, because they always have. They're some of the most mutable fictional creations ever made. Whether or not that's a good thing narrative wise is up for debate, but that's a different discussion entirely, and one that's been going on long before they decided to "score points with the SJW crowd".

And as far as whether "Thor" is a name or a title, it's their character so it can be whatever they want it to be.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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It could've had "thee" or "they" to begin with.

I don't really see the fuss behind this, if anything, it comes across as a little bit try-hard-y.

Oh well, gift horses and mouths; let's just hope that this will result in an interesting character.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Uses the term SJW unironically.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Screw women amiright?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Redryhno said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Uses the term SJW unironically.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Screw women amiright?
Don't be an ass Daystar. If you're going to ignore and mock someone's grievances, at least just leave it at ignore and mock them in private instead of this kind of crap.
You mean the grievance that Marvel, a comic company known for convoluted shit, just like every other comic book company, can't somehow make a an established character female because of reasons? And when it does, it's to appease the 'SJW' crowd?

You mean that grievance?
 

Lunar Templar

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Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
This. But I wouldn't be surprised if did though. -.- this is the internet after all.

Also.

new KlK avatar, is the real last EP out yet? o_o where can find?
 

Lightknight

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Thor Odinson to be precise.

What's more is Thor still exists in this paradigm. It's just some girl wielding his power and borrowing his name.

Like I said, we already complain about female heroes just having a male name slapped on and yet somehow we're OK with writers not even bothering doing that? Weird.

It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
 

Machine Man 1992

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Daystar Clarion said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Uses the term SJW unironically.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Screw women amiright?
Were in a different mood, I'd be inclined to sarcastically agree with you.

Since I'm not, there's a WORLD of difference between "making comics accessible and friendly to female readers" and "alienating everyone else because a bunch of spoiled special snowflakes stamped their feet and shook their fists."
 

Baresark

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LoL... I would think an inscription that was gender neutral would be the smart move, but whatever.
 

Trishbot

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Lightknight said:
Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
Sif actually has been the main leading heroine for some time in the "Journey into Mystery" series.


It's been a pretty entertaining read.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Uses the term SJW unironically.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Screw women amiright?
Were in a different mood, I'd be inclined to sarcastically agree with you.

Since I'm not, there's a WORLD of difference between "making comics accessible and friendly to female readers" and "alienating everyone else because a bunch of spoiled special snowflakes stamped their feet and shook their fists."
Because calling out the only reason why they would make Thor a woman as 'dem SJWs', isn't alienating everyone else because a bunch of spoiled special snowflakes stamped their feet and shook their fists?

Gotcha.
 

Baresark

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Trishbot said:
Lightknight said:
Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
Sif actually has been the main leading heroine for some time in the "Journey into Mystery" series.


It's been a pretty entertaining read.
Journey into Mystery is one of Marvel's best books in my opinion. Though they have announced they are ending that, which is lame.
 

Fappy

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?

Lightknight said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Thor Odinson to be precise.

What's more is Thor still exists in this paradigm. It's just some girl wielding his power and borrowing his name.

Like I said, we already complain about female heroes just having a male name slapped on and yet somehow we're OK with writers not even bothering doing that? Weird.

It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
First off, as someone already pointed out Sif does have her own book (last time I was reading Journey into Mystery anyhow). Also, Marvel's Thor has become so much its own thing that he hardly even resembles the mythological character he is based on. Sure, they take inspiration for the actual norse mythology, but inspiration is where it ends. Marvel's Thor is very much Marvel's Thor.

As for your primary grievance, I don't have an issue with a woman taking up his mantle. It could be a fun read, after all. I do, however, believe this to be financially motivated considering the comic industry's history with such stunts before. This is less about "appeasing SJWs" and more about making a quick buck on a novelty issue #1.

Lunar Templar said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
This. But I wouldn't be surprised if did though. -.- this is the internet after all.

Also.

new KlK avatar, is the real last EP out yet? o_o where can find?
It's out. You should be able to find links for English subs on the Kill la Kill subreddit. Crunchyroll doesn't stream OVA's for some reason.
 

StewShearerOld

Geekdad News Writer
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Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Uses the term SJW unironically.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Screw women amiright?
Were in a different mood, I'd be inclined to sarcastically agree with you.

Since I'm not, there's a WORLD of difference between "making comics accessible and friendly to female readers" and "alienating everyone else because a bunch of spoiled special snowflakes stamped their feet and shook their fists."
If something this small "alienates" those readers, Marvel is better off without them. Nothing ruins the perception of an entire fandom like a bunch of petulant children.
 

Redryhno

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Daystar Clarion said:
Redryhno said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Uses the term SJW unironically.

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Screw women amiright?
Don't be an ass Daystar. If you're going to ignore and mock someone's grievances, at least just leave it at ignore and mock them in private instead of this kind of crap.
You mean the grievance that Marvel, a comic company known for convoluted shit, just like every other comic book company, can't somehow make a an established character female because of reasons? And when it does, it's to appease the 'SJW' crowd?

You mean that grievance?
See, that's an actual response. What was so hard about typing that instead of the condescending shit you responded to MachineMan with?

Then again, Marvel's rarely hyped up any of the other Thor stand-in's like this before, haven't they? "Deaths" have always been a big thing though And hell, even the gay marriage thing, which I sorta consider more progressive than this shite, only got like a month of build-up to it and then was promptly forgotten. We've been getting news about this damn thing since May, stop it already.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But then it would take two people to wield the hammer.
 

elvor0

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Skeleon said:
To me it'd seem more sensible to change it to:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if worthy, shall possess the power of Thor"
I'm not a native speaker, but I think it wouldn't be wrong, would it? Alternatively, have it say "if they be worthy" or something else that's neutral?

Nope that works perfectly well. I think "Whosever is worthy to hold this hammer, shall possess the power of Thor" flows ever so /slightly/ better, but you could easilly argue in favour of your sentence.

Personally, I'm going with gender neutral being better. This just stinks of "LOOK LOOK WE MADE THOR A SHE, LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE, "SHE" IS ON THE HAMMER AND EVERYTHING!!!!11!" Making Thor a she is a massive stunt, good old Chris Hemsworth'll be back to being God of Thunder in no time. I still don't like the fact that they've decided that "Thor" is the title, not "The God(ess) of Thunder". Thor is his name, not his title or his assumed name for fuck sake.
 

El Comandante

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This is an outrage, there are no runes at all! ^^
Also it makes no sens in german (and english I think).
"He, who wrote this (without using the Futhark), shall be punished!"
 

FogHornG36

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because man no longer means mankind

also, I'm more offended that the inscription is in English!
 

anthony87

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Johnny Novgorod said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But then it would take two people to wield the hammer.
Or someone with four hands so it looks like two people are holding it....

Goro to be the next next Thor!!!!
 

Lizardon

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Marvel has been messing with "beloved characters" since the characters existed. Spider-man is replaced by his clone, Ironman is replaced by his teenage self from the past, Captain America is replaced by U.S.Agent, Doctor Strange is replaced by Brother Voodoo. This isn't the first time Thor has been replaced by someone else who took on the title of Thor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderstrike_(Eric_Masterson).

It seems to me that the only significant difference between this new storyline and the one from 1988 is that the replacement Thor this time is a woman.

By dumping the old character it gives a nice starting point for new readers to join the series without having to learn all the convoluted backstories most comic characters have developed over the years. That is until the old characters inevitable return.
 

DaWaffledude

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Nazrel said:
Contrary to common misconception "He" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "She" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a Male/Female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
This is literally the first I have heard of this.

Words mean what the general populace says they mean. It's one of the reasons I'm so fed up about this whole feminism/MRA/SJW mess. No one agrees what the words mean, which means they have no meaning.

No one uses "he" as gender neutral anymore (if they ever did, I haven't bothered to check), just like no one uses "gay" as a synonym for "happy" anymore. No dictionary will change this. A dictionary reflects the speakers of a language, not the other way around. That's why "literally" now officially means both "not figuratively" and "figuratively".

When people say "he", they refer to a male person, or a person they assume is male. Brand me whatever you like, any time I've seen someone called out for using male pronouns in place of gender-neutral ones, I've seen them correct themselves or defend their assumption, not their interpretation of the word "he". Defend your interpretation all you like, it's meaningless if an insignificant amount of people agree with it.

...

Reading back over this post, I may have gotten a bit ranty over what amounts to very little. Seeing people act like their interpretation of a word is the only valid one just gets to me. Sorry.
 

tzimize

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Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
The inscription thing is completely beside the point, the reason to resist this is what is (imo) stifling of creativity. Instead of creating a new, worthwhile hero, with her own powers from Asgard (honestly, not only the men were mighty in that lore) they just give Thor boobs. Because boobs.

Its sad and unnecessary, and to me about as retarded as making Wonder Woman into Wonder Man. What is the point?
 

castlewise

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Jul 18, 2010
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Baresark said:
LoL... I would think an inscription that was gender neutral would be the smart move, but whatever.
I think the she thing is better than "if they be worthy". It owns the change more.
 

Baresark

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castlewise said:
Baresark said:
LoL... I would think an inscription that was gender neutral would be the smart move, but whatever.
I think the she thing is better than "if they be worthy". It owns the change more.
Eh, while that is true, is that not the same issue as when it said "He" but in reverse. Since the wielder of the Mjolnir does not inherently have a gender specific requirement, a non-gender specific word just makes more sense. That said, as someone else pointed out, it shouldn't be beyond the capabilities of a weapon like Mjolnir to change the inscription to meet the wielder.

Edit: I also don't think this change is permanent, but we'll see.
 

Ferisar

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tzimize said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
The inscription thing is completely beside the point, the reason to resist this is what is (imo) stifling of creativity. Instead of creating a new, worthwhile hero, with her own powers from Asgard (honestly, not only the men were mighty in that lore) they just give Thor boobs. Because boobs.

Its sad and unnecessary, and to me about as retarded as making Wonder Woman into Wonder Man. What is the point?
Screw the lore, use your own damn continuity with some names and references to the original, that's all this is at this point! As people have mentioned, Sif can be prominent (and apparently has her own series), you can pull names from the stories if you feel like, there are plenty. (Hela, Skadi, Frigga, Freya, Brynhild, just off the top of my head, the last one being a Valkyrie)

Actually, are there Valkyries?

In any case, yeah, if you want "mythos-references", you've got plenty of stuff to use. I'll admit not to knowing the Marvel Universe well enough to know which have been mentioned already, but either way.

OT: Well, it's pretty cool to show off Mjolnir changing based on its wielder, that's for certain. I'm not a comic-book person, so this is still just a side-lines thing for me with these news posts, but I hope it ends up being serviceable.
 

xaszatm

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tzimize said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
The inscription thing is completely beside the point, the reason to resist this is what is (imo) stifling of creativity. Instead of creating a new, worthwhile hero, with her own powers from Asgard (honestly, not only the men were mighty in that lore) they just give Thor boobs. Because boobs.

Its sad and unnecessary, and to me about as retarded as making Wonder Woman into Wonder Man. What is the point?
Dude, you're taking about an industry that has a Marvel Universe where they replaced everyone as Zombies, Clones, and Animals. And it's the turn into a woman that's stifling creativity? Marvel does this all the time. Hell, I suspect within 6 months, Thor will come back and this new lady will either die or become a different Super-Hero or villain like EVERY OTHER TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED!
 

tzimize

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xaszatm said:
tzimize said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
The inscription thing is completely beside the point, the reason to resist this is what is (imo) stifling of creativity. Instead of creating a new, worthwhile hero, with her own powers from Asgard (honestly, not only the men were mighty in that lore) they just give Thor boobs. Because boobs.

Its sad and unnecessary, and to me about as retarded as making Wonder Woman into Wonder Man. What is the point?
Dude, you're taking about an industry that has a Marvel Universe where they replaced everyone as Zombies, Clones, and Animals. And it's the turn into a woman that's stifling creativity? Marvel does this all the time. Hell, I suspect within 6 months, Thor will come back and this new lady will either die or become a different Super-Hero or villain like EVERY OTHER TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED!
Oh, I know that all too well. Which is all the more reason to resist it. Someday they might discover that good characters and interesting stories might be all thats needed for success.
 

Something Amyss

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I sort of wonder why Marvel didn't go with "they," but I think Fappy put it best:

Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
However, I fully expect controversy.
 

UsefulPlayer 1

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DaWaffledude said:
Nazrel said:
Contrary to common misconception "He" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "She" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a Male/Female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
This is literally the first I have heard of this.

Words mean what the general populace says they mean. It's one of the reasons I'm so fed up about this whole feminism/MRA/SJW mess. No one agrees what the words mean, which means they have no meaning.

No one uses "he" as gender neutral anymore (if they ever did, I haven't bothered to check), just like no one uses "gay" as a synonym for "happy" anymore. No dictionary will change this. A dictionary reflects the speakers of a language, not the other way around. That's why "literally" now officially means both "not figuratively" and "figuratively".

When people say "he", they refer to a male person, or a person they assume is male. Brand me whatever you like, any time I've seen someone called out for using male pronouns in place of gender-neutral ones, I've seen them correct themselves or defend their assumption, not their interpretation of the word "he". Defend your interpretation all you like, it's meaningless if an insignificant amount of people agree with it.

...

Reading back over this post, I may have gotten a bit ranty over what amounts to very little. Seeing people act like their interpretation of a word is the only valid one just gets to me. Sorry.
I was thinking exactly what Nazrel was saying.

I mean I painfully remember fellow students asking the teacher/professor this same question every single year. They would always get the same answer, "He" for male or neutral or unknown and "She" for female.

I disliked this idea at first, but I like it more considering it's more of an empowerment scene. Like she grabs the hammer and then the inscription changes to recognize its new master, not like it was always that way.

Mind you I love the idea of a female Thor. I still like the idea of a female Link.
 

hermes

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Focusing a couple panels to point out this sounds as gimmicky as this whole stunt is gimmicky, like Marvel answering people's complains by focusing on the most mundane ones...

I don't have an issue with the new wielder being a woman, I have an issue with Marvel trying to act like its the same character, by calling her Thor. Others pointed out its not the first time mjolnir has changed hands, yet no one called Storm, Rogue or Beta Ray Bill "Thor"... acting like now its meant to be a title is just dumb.
 

Methodia Chicken

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Zachary Amaranth said:
I sort of wonder why Marvel didn't go with "they," but I think Fappy put it best:

Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
However, I fully expect controversy.
The answer is simple, we just need Mjolnir to be wielded by a genderless character. Is there one of those in marvel that isn't some kind of horrible cosmic entity? I'm not familiar enough. actually screw it, give Mjolnir to the space demon.
 

lionsprey

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Fappy said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?

Lightknight said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Thor Odinson to be precise.

What's more is Thor still exists in this paradigm. It's just some girl wielding his power and borrowing his name.

Like I said, we already complain about female heroes just having a male name slapped on and yet somehow we're OK with writers not even bothering doing that? Weird.

It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
First off, as someone already pointed out Sif does have her own book (last time I was reading Journey into Mystery anyhow). Also, Marvel's Thor has become so much its own thing that he hardly even resembles the mythological character he is based on. Sure, they take inspiration for the actual norse mythology, but inspiration is where it ends. Marvel's Thor is very much Marvel's Thor.

As for your primary grievance, I don't have an issue with a woman taking up his mantle. It could be a fun read, after all. I do, however, believe this to be financially motivated considering the comic industry's history with such stunts before. This is less about "appeasing SJWs" and more about making a quick buck on a novelty issue #1.

Lunar Templar said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
This. But I wouldn't be surprised if did though. -.- this is the internet after all.

Also.

new KlK avatar, is the real last EP out yet? o_o where can find?
It's out. You should be able to find links for English subs on the Kill la Kill subreddit. Crunchyroll doesn't stream OVA's for some reason.
who other then donald blake has been thor? becouse from what i can find donald blake seems to be thor without his memory and placed in a crippled body.
nvm i managed to find a few
 

Ferisar

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Methodia Chicken said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
I sort of wonder why Marvel didn't go with "they," but I think Fappy put it best:

Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
However, I fully expect controversy.
The answer is simple, we just need Mjolnir to be wielded by a genderless character. Is there one of those in marvel that isn't some kind of horrible cosmic entity? I'm not familiar enough. actually screw it, give Mjolnir to the space demon.
We need to give Mjolnir to a ship is what needs to happen. A ship that identifies with "boat" being its primary pronoun.

"Whatever holds this hammer, if boat be sea-worthy, shall possess the power of Thor"

I was really trying to sneak a sailing pun in there, but it's just naut my day for puns.

And then someone could draw it, too...

Yes, it's perfect. Perfect... -drifts off-
 

Machine Man 1992

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Lizardon said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Marvel has been messing with "beloved characters" since the characters existed. Spider-man is replaced by his clone, Ironman is replaced by his teenage self from the past, Captain America is replaced by U.S.Agent, Doctor Strange is replaced by Brother Voodoo. This isn't the first time Thor has been replaced by someone else who took on the title of Thor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderstrike_(Eric_Masterson).

It seems to me that the only significant difference between this new storyline and the one from 1988 is that the replacement Thor this time is a woman.

By dumping the old character it gives a nice starting point for new readers to join the series without having to learn all the convoluted backstories most comic characters have developed over the years. That is until the old characters inevitable return.
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
 

Ferisar

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
Is this "cynical publicity stunt" worth any more outrage than the previous ones? If it lasts, cool, if it doesn't, we have a character who swung around Thor's hammer for a while, maybe also cool. This is a comic-book staple. It's not even worth getting mad over!

Of course it's notable. The geek buzz for the last year-ish that's been gaining traction is female representation, it's called relevance. The reason a bunch of women aren't being turned into men and being front-paged is because it has nothing to do with what's happening in the real world. It's not hard to see :p
 

Dragonlayer

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Dec 5, 2013
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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
"Whoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy and regardless of their sexual/racial identity, shall possess the power of Thor. However, they should not feel obliged to appease patriarchal societal demands for acceptance by utilizing this phallic object of masculine aggression in a violent manner and should be aware that anyone can succeed despite what traditional thinking may dictate."
 

ElMinotoro

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Jul 17, 2014
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Fappy said:
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?
This is not correct. Donald Blake was the human identity given to He-Thor by Odin as a punishment for hubris.

I wish She-Thor wasn't called just Thor, mainly for ambiguity reasons. This is why I'll refuse to call Carol Danvers Captain Marvel. She's had 5 different super hero names and Marvel Universe Captain Marvel has been 7 different people. So to talk about "Captain Marvel" without any other kind of signifier confuses me.

Similarly, Thor is the name of the character. I've not read Thor for a while but I used to weekly. From what I understand, He-Thor is deemed unworthy of Mjolnir and so She-Thor becomes Thor. But He-Thor is still alive, right? He might not be an Avenger, but he's not dead. What do we call him? His name Thor. But she's also Thor? Will we get to see some hot Thor on Thor action?

Beta Ray Bill is not Thor. He's Beta Ray Bill. And if you wielded his hammer, you wouldn't be Beta Ray Bill.
 

Fappy

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ElMinotoro said:
Fappy said:
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?
This is not correct. Donald Blake was the human identity given to He-Thor by Odin as a punishment for hubris.

I wish She-Thor wasn't called just Thor, mainly for ambiguity reasons. This is why I'll refuse to call Carol Danvers Captain Marvel. She's had 5 different super hero names and Marvel Universe Captain Marvel has been 7 different people. So to talk about "Captain Marvel" without any other kind of signifier confuses me.

Similarly, Thor is the name of the character. I've not read Thor for a while but I used to weekly. From what I understand, He-Thor is deemed unworthy of Mjolnir and so She-Thor becomes Thor. But He-Thor is still alive, right? He might not be an Avenger, but he's not dead. What do we call him? His name Thor. But she's also Thor? Will we get to see some hot Thor on Thor action?

Beta Ray Bill is not Thor. He's Beta Ray Bill. And if you wielded his hammer, you wouldn't be Beta Ray Bill.
But that was a retcon made waaaaay later. The original idea was that anyone wielding Mjolnir became Thor. I would know, I have read most of the original Journey run from the 60's. This obviously is no longer the case (as it is pretty silly), but it seems that they are going with this angle as more of an homage than anything else. Obviously she isn't literally becoming Thor like Don Blake did (and I suppose he-Thor will continue to exist in some capacity), but it's my opinion that they are consciously referencing the old status quo.

EDIT: This is no doubt a means to leverage the book's marketability. I don't disagree that calling her Thor when she is not Thor is dumb... I am simply saying that there's a reason for it.
 

Machine Man 1992

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Ferisar said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
Is this "cynical publicity stunt" worth any more outrage than the previous ones? If it lasts, cool, if it doesn't, we have a character who swung around Thor's hammer for a while, maybe also cool. This is a comic-book staple. It's not even worth getting mad over!

Of course it's notable. The geek buzz for the last year-ish that's been gaining traction is female representation, it's called relevance. The reason a bunch of women aren't being turned into men and being front-paged is because it has nothing to do with what's happening in the real world. It's not hard to see :p
It still feels exploitative.

If they want female representation, why fuck with an established character? Why not create a new character, or pull one the side characters into the spotlight. It's not like they have an entire goddamned universe to work with here (or several).
 

IamGamer41

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Score another victory for the PC generation. Honestly who gives a crap about what the hammer says. Like no one could tell she was Thor. Is she going to make people read her hammer now to prove she really is Thor. All this will pass in a few months. Anyone recall when they turned the Punisher into a black man? That lasted all but 3 issues. All this was is shock value. It's akin to clickbating. Are they that dry on ideas they have to completely fuck up established characters? Also I don't see this as a big deal. Anyone read the Asguardian wars? Storm used Thors hammer then so a female with the hammer isn't new. Also back then no one gave two fucking shits about what the hammer said. I see no reason to make any kinda big deal of this.
 

Seracen

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Plasmadamage said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
I can't believe it took 8 posts to get to that
Immediately had the same thought...

Trishbot said:


It didn't change when Wonder Woman wielded it...

Which now has me wanting a new Marvel vs. DC crossover.
You know...Storm wouldn't have a chance...sorry to say. It always perturbed me when referred to herself as "equal to a god." Seemed the sort of pretentiousness one would expect from Apocalypse or Magneto...I loved when she tried to pull that crap with Thor and he pretty much said "nope." On the other hand, I also cried foul when Magneto cheated and used his powers to "wield Mjolnir."

Would LOVE to see another crossover series...granted they do a better job of it than "Amalgam" back in the day, and give us a series of solid story arcs...
 

Erttheking

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I still can't see why people think this is a big deal. I mean, there weren't organized outrages when Thor was turned into a god damn frog.
 

Lupine

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lionsprey said:
Fappy said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?

Lightknight said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Thor Odinson to be precise.

What's more is Thor still exists in this paradigm. It's just some girl wielding his power and borrowing his name.

Like I said, we already complain about female heroes just having a male name slapped on and yet somehow we're OK with writers not even bothering doing that? Weird.

It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
First off, as someone already pointed out Sif does have her own book (last time I was reading Journey into Mystery anyhow). Also, Marvel's Thor has become so much its own thing that he hardly even resembles the mythological character he is based on. Sure, they take inspiration for the actual norse mythology, but inspiration is where it ends. Marvel's Thor is very much Marvel's Thor.

As for your primary grievance, I don't have an issue with a woman taking up his mantle. It could be a fun read, after all. I do, however, believe this to be financially motivated considering the comic industry's history with such stunts before. This is less about "appeasing SJWs" and more about making a quick buck on a novelty issue #1.

Lunar Templar said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
This. But I wouldn't be surprised if did though. -.- this is the internet after all.

Also.

new KlK avatar, is the real last EP out yet? o_o where can find?
It's out. You should be able to find links for English subs on the Kill la Kill subreddit. Crunchyroll doesn't stream OVA's for some reason.
who other then donald blake has been thor? becouse from what i can find donald blake seems to be thor without his memory and placed in a crippled body.
nvm i managed to find a few
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...

As for whom else was Thor, Thunderstrike was at one point Thor, which is even more interesting when you look at Ultimate Thor and realize that he is more Eric Masterson as Thor than he is similar to the 616 original.
 

ElMinotoro

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Lupine said:
SNIP
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...

As for whom else was Thor, Thunderstrike was at one point Thor, which is even more interesting when you look at Ultimate Thor and realize that he is more Eric Masterson as Thor than he is similar to the 616 original.
But both Donald Blake and Eric Masterson were explicitly bonded with the spirit of Thor Odinson. They didn't just find the hammer and were suddenly able to SHAZAM into Thor.

Edit/ addendum: Ultimate Thor reminds me most of Jurgen Thor from This Other Eden by Ben Elton
 

totheendofsin

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Anyone who gets upset over this is silly. That being said I feel like it would have been smarter to go with a gender-neutral pronoun so they don't have to change it again when/if they decide to give the original Thor his hammer back (or otherwise give it to a male character).
 

JimB

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Skeleon said:
To me it'd seem more sensible to change it to: "Whosoever holds this hammer, if worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
It's grammatically correct. I don't like the meter as much as the original, but in terms of English rules? Perfectly acceptable.

CelestDaer said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific.
Isn't that what Odin says in the first Thor movie?
Nope. He says "he."

Sigmund Av Volsung said:
It could've had "thee" or "they" to begin with.
"Thee" is a second-person pronoun. It's a little clumsy in this instance. I personally hate "they" when used as a singular pronoun, but it is more or less acceptable.

DaWaffledude said:
Nazrel said:
Contrary to common misconception "he" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "she" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a male/female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
This is literally the first I have heard of this.
In academia, Nazrel is correct. However, as you yourself point out, words only have what meaning people agree to assign to them, and to most people, "he" means "a critter what has a penis."

DaWaffledude said:
No one uses "he" as gender neutral anymore.
I do, but I'm a stickler for the rules.

Machine Man 1992 said:
If they want female representation, why fuck with an established character? Why not create a new character, or pull one the side characters into the spotlight.
Business reasons. The comic industry is not infallible--Marvel's bankruptcy twenty years ago after it glutted the market with title after title no one cared about or had an interest in proved that--so Marvel is creating an event that it can expect will attract more new readers than it will lose them old readers, and near the end of this arc when Thor Odinson inevitably gets Mjolnir back, Marvel will have an excellent idea of how much demand there is for an ongoing series featuring the new character, from which they can base their decision. See also "the Reign of the Supermen" and Steel's eventual ongoing title.
 

Cronenberg1

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I like how nobody cares about gender neutral pronouns until it's changed from male to female. Someone makes a valid criticism about the use of he as a default pronoun for anything with an unidentified gender? "you're just being PC, stop being so offended all the time!" The text on Thor's hammer changes from he to she? "Hey lets be gender neutral now!"
 

The Bucket

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Ferisar said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
Is this "cynical publicity stunt" worth any more outrage than the previous ones? If it lasts, cool, if it doesn't, we have a character who swung around Thor's hammer for a while, maybe also cool. This is a comic-book staple. It's not even worth getting mad over!

Of course it's notable. The geek buzz for the last year-ish that's been gaining traction is female representation, it's called relevance. The reason a bunch of women aren't being turned into men and being front-paged is because it has nothing to do with what's happening in the real world. It's not hard to see :p
It still feels exploitative.

If they want female representation, why fuck with an established character? Why not create a new character, or pull one the side characters into the spotlight. It's not like they have an entire goddamned universe to work with here (or several).
They put Sif as the lead in JIM, its just barely anybody cared.
 

JimB

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erttheking said:
I still can't see why people think this is a big deal. I mean, there weren't organized outrages when Thor was turned into a god damn frog.
A very cynical and at least possibly unfair part of me wants to say, "Well sure, because Thor Odintadpole still had gonads, and that's the important thing."
 

Lupine

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ElMinotoro said:
Lupine said:
SNIP
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...

As for whom else was Thor, Thunderstrike was at one point Thor, which is even more interesting when you look at Ultimate Thor and realize that he is more Eric Masterson as Thor than he is similar to the 616 original.
But both Donald Blake and Eric Masterson were explicitly bonded with the spirit of Thor Odinson. They didn't just find the hammer and were suddenly able to SHAZAM into Thor.

Edit/ addendum: Ultimate Thor reminds me most of Jurgen Thor from This Other Eden by Ben Elton
Not true for Blake originally though. He was retconed into Thor sure, but originally it was totally, hammer-boom into Thor. Also Masterson was also Thor on his own after he was separated from Thor Odinson, which is why he was my example in the first place.

Edit: Never read it, sorry. Honestly Ultimate Thor seems really Masterson, even his original "People aren't sure if he is a god or crazy." Sort of first appearance to me seems based off of Masterson's doubt of himself as Thor's replacement initially and kind of a nod at Thor possibly not actually being mythological Thor. But of course that's my interpretation and everyone sees something different in character traits then and again.
 

Jake Martinez

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Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Agreed. This is just derpy.

Frozengale said:
Shouldn't the hammer just be gender neutral?

I guess it changing to fit its wielder's gender is fine. But why not just make it "Whosoever holds this hammer, if THEY be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
Most people, and I dare venture this includes "magical hammers" don't obsess over pronouns.

Frankly, if Thor's hammer wouldn't work for a woman because she was a woman, then that'd be more notable.


The dumb thing has already been lifted by women (I see someone posted the terrible DC vs. Marvel crossover), robots, ghosts, aliens and anthropomorphic animals.
 

JimB

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Warning: I am about to engage in a completely unforgivable amount of wankery. You may want to skip this post. Even I'm a little embarrassed of it.

Jake Martinez said:
Most people, and I dare venture this includes "magical hammers," don't obsess over pronouns.
In the Egyptian language, the word for magic is "hekau." It's a bit of a tricky word to translate into English, but you could say it means "powerful speech" or "powerful words" and be basically right. See, the Egyptians believed that words were a form of power, and that speech could make magical things happen. They weren't alone, either. Hell, there is (or was; I doubt it still has any particular following) even an old heresy that Adam had power over the beasts of Eden because of the act of naming them, which was a kind of sorcery that defined their natures according to his will. The idea that precise phrasing can make magic happen is all throughout our current understanding of magic, from D&D's verbal spell components to Harry Potter's chanted spells to stories of evil genies and devils granting horribly ironic wishes by obeying the letter of the law while ignoring the spirit.

So would a magical hammer care about phrasing? It wouldn't surprise me a bit.
 

JimB

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bat32391 said:
Where have I been? When and how did Thor become a woman?
I don't think it's happened yet, but as far as I know, the current story arc in Thor has been building up to him becoming less and less worthy of Mjolnir. It will culminate in him losing Mjolnir, and an original, new character taking the hammer and the mantle.
 

Ferisar

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JimB said:
Warning: I am about to engage in a completely unforgivable amount of wankery. You may want to skip this post. Even I'm a little embarrassed of it.

Jake Martinez said:
Most people, and I dare venture this includes "magical hammers," don't obsess over pronouns.
In the Egyptian language, the word for magic is "hekau." It's a bit of a tricky word to translate into English, but you could say it means "powerful speech" or "powerful words" and be basically right. See, the Egyptians believed that words were a form of power, and that speech could make magical things happen. They weren't alone, either. Hell, there is (or was; I doubt it still has any particular following) even an old heresy that Adam had power over the beasts of Eden because of the act of naming them, which was a kind of sorcery that defined their natures according to his will. The idea that precise phrasing can make magic happen is all throughout our current understanding of magic, from D&D's verbal spell components to Harry Potter's chanted spells to stories of evil genies and devils granting horribly ironic wishes by obeying the letter of the law while ignoring the spirit.

So would a magical hammer care about phrasing? It wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Less wankery and more noting trends, I'd say :p It's true, though. Granted, by the extension, words have power through, you know, talking. Given most educational fields employ funny words to describe phenomena, it's not that odd that wizards are pictured to use funny words to light something on lightning purple fire of frost of the bear +5 to burning pigeons. It kind of comes with being imagined as being supernatural's version of academia (that applies to more than just wizardry, obviously, it's just blatant there).
 

Imp_Emissary

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bat32391 said:
Where have I been? When and how did Thor become a woman?
Actually, Thor isn't becoming a woman. He going to lose the hammer (Mjolnir) and then it's going to be used by a woman.

She's apparently taken the name Thor, or people are calling her Thor. Not sure which. It was hinted that we've seen the woman under the mask before, but they didn't say who she is.

Thor will still be around, just won't have his Mjolnir anymore. Don't worry, he's apparently getting a cool axe later.

Edit: Ah Jim. Ya beat me to it.

JimB said:
bat32391 said:
Where have I been? When and how did Thor become a woman?
I don't think it's happened yet, but as far as I know, the current story arc in Thor has been building up to him becoming less and less worthy of Mjolnir. It will culminate in him losing Mjolnir, and an original, new character taking the hammer and the mantle.
 

Alorxico

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Why didn't they change it to "they"? This way anyone one, male or female, could potentially be Thor.
 

Artemicion

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I'm surprised it wasn't gender neutral, but hey - Thor IS a female, now, so it's only appropriate that Mjolnir should call for her specifically.

ggwp, Marvel.
 

RealRT

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
Yeah, why not change it to that permanently.
 

DrOswald

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
I like the idea of it changing to suit the current user. It makes it feel less like a "we need to be inclusive!" thing to me and more like something a magical hammer might actually do - change it's nature to fit the new master.
 

DeimosMasque

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JimB said:
bat32391 said:
Where have I been? When and how did Thor become a woman?
I don't think it's happened yet, but as far as I know, the current story arc in Thor has been building up to him becoming less and less worthy of Mjolnir. It will culminate in him losing Mjolnir, and an original, new character taking the hammer and the mantle.
Him losing Mjolnir has just happened actually in the most recent issues of Original Sin. One of the closing images of the last issue is him on the Moon trying desperately to pull the hammer of the surface of the moon and it not budging.
 

Diddy_Mao

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
There's an established history of exactly this kind of thing happening with Thor.
Dargo Ktor, Eric Masterson, Red Norvell...hell Simon Walterson pulls double duty as Thor and a Frog.
If you want to get picky there's also Beta Ray Bill and Thrr the Dog of Thunder.

I fail to see how suddenly assigning the mantle to a woman is somehow more disrespectful to the character or fans.
 

Scorpid

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
Bingo bango. Maybe the hammer fixes the gender reference of its inscription with magic. You know because you don't want to possess the power of the god but have your feelings be hurt because you don't feel included by the inscription.
 

Strazdas

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Frozengale said:
Shouldn't the hammer just be gender neutral?

I guess it changing to fit its wielder's gender is fine. But why not just make it "Whosoever holds this hammer, if THEY be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
Thats because this was never about being gender neutral. they just wanted to slap more female superheroes, but since innovation wasnt an option they genderswapped the existing ones because "Thor" sells. Its the new gimmick - make everything female.
 

JimB

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Strazdas said:
It's the new gimmick: make everything female.
Okay, I'll bite: what other properties has this tactic been applied to?
 

happyninja42

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
Thank you, you said it for me. Very easy way to resolve that issue, also it sounds more classicy and theatrical to use they. Which, given the operatic and classic myth feel of Thor and the Asgard, would be very fitting.
 

happyninja42

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JimB said:
bat32391 said:
Where have I been? When and how did Thor become a woman?
I don't think it's happened yet, but as far as I know, the current story arc in Thor has been building up to him becoming less and less worthy of Mjolnir. It will culminate in him losing Mjolnir, and an original, new character taking the hammer and the mantle.
Do we know if the original Thor is going to still play a role in the Thor comic series? Or is he going to get some spinoff with him as a depowered god on the road to redemption? That would actually be pretty cool really. Having him have to re-earn his rightful place as Thor, and take up the hammer again down the line, but give the female Thor her own magic hammer like they did with Beta Ray Bill. Assuming she does well as a cash source, and the stories are good, I could easily see them giving her a spinoff Thor comic, like they've done with the various versions of the Spider-Man comics, which are all basically alternate universe takes on the same hero.

I gotta admit, I'm almost compelled to start reading comics again, to see what they do with the female Thor, and the de-powered Thor on the side.
 

JimB

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Happyninja42 said:
Do we know if the original Thor is going to still play a role in the Thor comic series? Or is he going to get some spinoff with him as a depowered god on the road to redemption?
I do not personally know, but I have seen pictures of him running around in a new costume (looks like he's shirtless and and wearing brown leather pants) and swinging a big ol' axe, so he will be around. I just don't know in which book. I assume it will be Thor, since it would kind of screw up the attempt to save money if they made a new book.
 

Anja Bech

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Lightknight said:
It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
2000 year old? No, this Thor has absolutely nothing to do with the Norse god. He's a superhero, borrowing the Norse god's lore. They are absolutely nothing alike.

I do however agree with you that they shouldn't just make 'female Thor' but either make an original character with an original name or take an already existing woman from the canon and use her. This is just lazy.

Also, what Sigmund Av Volsung said - why not just change the inscription to 'they'? Changing is to she seems silly when Thor, obviously a he, has been carrying this thing around for ages.
 

happyninja42

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JimB said:
Happyninja42 said:
Do we know if the original Thor is going to still play a role in the Thor comic series? Or is he going to get some spinoff with him as a depowered god on the road to redemption?
I do not personally know, but I have seen pictures of him running around in a new costume (looks like he's shirtless and and wearing brown leather pants) and swinging a big ol' axe, so he will be around. I just don't know in which book. I assume it will be Thor, since it would kind of screw up the attempt to save money if they made a new book.
True, I just personally see Thor's road to redemption story as being potentially awesome enough in it's own right to warrant a comic series of it's own. xD

But that's just me and my love of stories like that, someone fighting against odds and threats to reclaim their glory and grace, after being a deuche at some point in the past.

You're very likely right that it wouldn't be a good idea from a marketing standpoint, but I'm looking at it from the fan/reader angle. xD
 

JimB

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Anja Bech said:
I do however agree with you that they shouldn't just make 'female Thor' but either make an original character with an original name or take an already existing woman from the canon and use her. This is just lazy.
It's not lazy; it's a business decision. The comic book industry is remarkably stagnant and resistant to change. New characters have the best opportunity to survive if they are attached to an established hero and allowed to branch out after their popularity has been proven with the safety net of a big hero's name.

Anja Bech said:
Also, what Sigmund Av Volsung said - why not just change the inscription to 'they?' Changing it to 'she' seems silly when Thor, obviously a he, has been carrying this thing around for ages.
Wait, why is changing it to "she" silly but changing it to "they" isn't? Yeah, Thor was carrying Mjolnir for ages, but he ain't doing it now, is he?
 

Lightknight

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Trishbot said:
Sif actually has been the main leading heroine for some time in the "Journey into Mystery" series.


It's been a pretty entertaining read.
Yeah, that's a really good one. But I'm referring to making her a legitimate mainstay in the Avengers or something mainstream. Hell, have her wielding Thor's hammer instead of this nameless being. Though, I'd hate for her not to have her sword. I'd prefer she just take his place amongst the avengers.

But don't just take an unknown, undeveloped female and stamp "Thor" on her like that's something new. That's even worse than "Super Girl" or "Batwoman". At least they're distinct albeit unoriginal. But indistinct and unoriginal? That's a step backwards and it also pisses off fans of Thor unnecessarily. Not that I'm a fan of Thor, he's very nearly in an Aquaman category for me. But Sif? Dayum gurl!

Fappy said:
Lightknight said:
Thor Odinson to be precise.

What's more is Thor still exists in this paradigm. It's just some girl wielding his power and borrowing his name.

Like I said, we already complain about female heroes just having a male name slapped on and yet somehow we're OK with writers not even bothering doing that? Weird.

It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
First off, as someone already pointed out Sif does have her own book (last time I was reading Journey into Mystery anyhow). Also, Marvel's Thor has become so much its own thing that he hardly even resembles the mythological character he is based on. Sure, they take inspiration for the actual norse mythology, but inspiration is where it ends. Marvel's Thor is very much Marvel's Thor.
Her book is a side series. I want them to have a mainstream Avenger's female that is kickass as a character on her own merits and isn't just a [HeroName]-[Female designation]. Don't get me wrong, many of those female versions of previously established male characters end up evolving into unique characters with interesting situations.

As for your primary grievance, I don't have an issue with a woman taking up his mantle. It could be a fun read, after all. I do, however, believe this to be financially motivated considering the comic industry's history with such stunts before. This is less about "appeasing SJWs" and more about making a quick buck on a novelty issue #1.
I don't particularly care about them being motivated by money. What's frustrating about this is that this will be temporary, almost certainly. Then what happens to the female character? This could have been an opportunity to bring a sidelined female hero into the spotlight and core group. Take the avengers movie, for example, we have exactly one female and she's not even a superhero. Black-widow is just a spy. Some alterations have given her lame internal powers like "slowed aging" "mind-control resistance" and "enhanced immune system" which aren't exactly powers. Hawkeye is at least a tech superhero with his arrows but is certainly borderline not superhero unless you believe he has superaim and not just peak human aim. But these are the support heroes. The ones from a distance or sneaking. Usually the ones on the computer away from the super powered action.

The comics have some female heroines passing through here and there. Some are better than others and quite a few are just rehashes of the deadly assassin that isn't actually superhuman which is ridiculous to have in such numbers. Why do women get cast in the deadly assassin role so often in these comics? Echo's ability, for example, is photographic reflexes. Not superhuman, just she can copy what she sees someone else do. Not lift a car or anything requiring powers. But things like play the piano or martial arts. She's also deaf which puts her at a further disadvantage. Then Sharon Carter who is just a spy type.

Now, Sif just happens to be my #1 choice. There are other options that stand on their own right. But Sif is sexy without being overtly sexualized and completely badass without being dumb and actually has superpowers.

Sersi was made a member of the Avengers for awhile. That was interesting but she's honestly a bit too powerful as an eternal. Heroes that are just too powerful are hard to write for. She can manipulate all matter with her mind. Organic and inorganic. She merely has a bit of trouble on the subatomic bit. I think they dropped the ball a bit by making her a shameless flirt with the Captain but it was kind of nice seeing him get embarrassed. She may be a decent choice to try to bring to the spotlight but they've really gone off the deep-end with sexualizing her character. It's the same reason why I find wonderwoman a terrible character in the DC universe with her bondage origins.

Power Woman is one I'm still unsure about. She just doesn't seem to stick as a character for a lot of people.

Ms. Marvel could become interesting. They may be trying to make this person into a mainstay... maybe. It's kind of weird to associate a hero's main differentiation with being religion. Her name is also literally a Ms. [heroname]

But really? I'm mostly ok with ANYTHING other than what they're doing. It's not even a new hero they're creating. It's literally a temporary Thor stamp with breasts and I'm completely unsure why this is viewed as progressive when it's even less work than the stuff they'd been doing before which was viewed as not good enough.

Is it just because it's making fans of Thor upset so it makes people feel like it's progressive for feminists? That doesn't sound right. I may not be a fan but I understand. On the other hand, since Thor Odinson still exists they could do something really interesting with his storyline. Will have to wait and see if I'm going to spend any time on it.
 

Anja Bech

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JimB said:
Wait, why is changing it to "she" silly but changing it to "they" isn't? Yeah, Thor was carrying Mjolnir for ages, but he ain't doing it now, is he?
It's not the change I think is silly, it's the fact that they changed it to be gender specific. It's a teeny tiny thing, I know, and it doesn't really matter, but I still feel it would have made a bit more sense to make the pronoun gender neutral.
 

Lightknight

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Anja Bech said:
2000 year old? No, this Thor has absolutely nothing to do with the Norse god. He's a superhero, borrowing the Norse god's lore. They are absolutely nothing alike.
Thor is both a modern comic book character and a 2,000 year old human lore character. It's not one or the other. Comic Thor is literally a retcon of human lore in which he is purported to be the same Thor that humans referenced 2,000 years ago freshly returned to Earth.

Yes, he isn't exactly the same, but it is still a direct representation of the Norse God. So all I really mean is that of all superhero Marvel characters, this is the one that has been around for thousands of years. Do you really think the Thor of Norse Mythology is all that different from a superhero story?

Maybe someone will get mad at a Ms. Jesus hero with matter manipulation powers in a comic 100 years from now? Same thing. Just Thor may be even older.

I do however agree with you that they shouldn't just make 'female Thor' but either make an original character with an original name or take an already existing woman from the canon and use her. This is just lazy.
Exactly! And they have legitimate existing characters which makes this even worse. They literally have excellent Asguardians to take up the hammer too.

Also, what Sigmund Av Volsung said - why not just change the inscription to 'they'? Changing is to she seems silly when Thor, obviously a he, has been carrying this thing around for ages.
Right, they've gone from sexism to sexism in the name of not-sexism. The pendulum often swings too far in the name of equality before swinging back to equality's rightful place.
 

Fappy

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Lightknight said:
Now that I think about it, I hope this lady Thor doesn't just become a Valkyrie clone when she gives up the hammer. Actually, this whole thing would be a lot more interesting if it was Valkyrie herself that picks up Mjolnir in the first place. She's a pretty unique character in her own right, and taking up Thor's mantle temporarily may get people to pay attention to her for the first time in.... 30 years.
 

happyninja42

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Lightknight said:
Yeah, that's a really good one. But I'm referring to making her a legitimate mainstay in the Avengers or something mainstream. Hell, have her wielding Thor's hammer instead of this nameless being. Though, I'd hate for her not to have her sword. I'd prefer she just take his place amongst the avengers.

But don't just take an unknown, undeveloped female and stamp "Thor" on her like that's something new. That's even worse than "Super Girl" or "Batwoman". At least they're distinct albeit unoriginal. But indistinct and unoriginal? That's a step backwards and it also pisses off fans of Thor unnecessarily. Not that I'm a fan of Thor, he's very nearly in an Aquaman category for me. But Sif? Dayum gurl!
I think JimB posted previously that the female Thor is someone we know from a previous comic series, but it just hasn't been revealed yet? Which might support my previous hope that a Valkyrie, (not necessarily the Valkyrie comic hero, but just a Valkyrie of Norse mythology), becomes the new Thor. It would make sense in a way, assuming Thor is fighting with other Asgardians at his side when he loses his hammer, and it's a "heat of battle" decision on the part of the female character to take up the hammer to try and save the day, and it works.

It's purely speculation on my part I know, but it makes sense to me thematically, and in my head makes for a pretty cool scene. Male Thor falls to the field of battle, the enemies swarm, and then there is a massive bolt of lightning, and a clap of thunder. Then, as the smoke of battle clears, a woman is standing over him in a defensive posture, armor shining with power and the hammer held aloft, classic badass pose. And everyone's just sort of dumbstruck for a minute as the golden warrior surveys the field of battle, then proceeds to kick arse.

Bah, I'm getting myself overly hyped about this reveal scene in my head. xD It's probably not going to be anything like that in the comic, but I can dream!
 

Sight Unseen

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I still think it's a bit silly that Thor of all heroes can be replaced. Thor is supposed to be an actual god. How the hell does one simply replace him, taking his name and all?

I'm all for seeing more women in comics (not that I read comics) but if you must replace existing heroes, why would you pick Thor as your go to one?
 

Lightknight

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Fappy said:
Lightknight said:
Now that I think about it, I hope this lady Thor doesn't just become a Valkyrie clone when she gives up the hammer. Actually, this whole thing would be a lot more interesting if it was Valkyrie herself that picks up Mjolnir in the first place. She's a pretty unique character in her own right, and taking up Thor's mantle temporarily may get people to pay attention to her for the first time in.... 30 years.
Kudos for considering my point. From your first post in the thread it seemed like you were already against anyone that would have a problem with this. Hopefully I've made it apparent that my complaints are on wasted potential here rather than just getting mad at girls in a boy's club or something. But you may have just had an issue with the hammer change itself causing controversy. I think it should have been changed to something gender neutral if they were going to do that. Going from one sex to another is still sexist. Or, maybe it will just always switch in the future? Maybe magic just isn't politically correct?

Valkryie would be interesting too. She's obviously close in character and would be a decent choice. The author seemed to indicate that this is an existing character that hasn't been revealed yet. Not sure what that will do though.

I'm also concerned that transforming them (an existing character) entirely into a female Thor would dilute their own character so that when they change back it's as if they were just gone for awhile. Rather than bringing their character real attention and legitimate spotlight.

Maybe it could be a thing where the initial transformation into Thor's mantel makes them entirely a Thor clone (albeit still female) and slowly their original character takes their uniqueness back, altering the costume over time to be an amalgamation of costumes. Who knows, but as it stands I'm none too happy. It's just literally a female Thor by all accounts.

Happyninja42 said:
I think JimB posted previously that the female Thor is someone we know from a previous comic series, but it just hasn't been revealed yet? Which might support my previous hope that a Valkyrie, (not necessarily the Valkyrie comic hero, but just a Valkyrie of Norse mythology), becomes the new Thor. It would make sense in a way, assuming Thor is fighting with other Asgardians at his side when he loses his hammer, and it's a "heat of battle" decision on the part of the female character to take up the hammer to try and save the day, and it works.

It's purely speculation on my part I know, but it makes sense to me thematically, and in my head makes for a pretty cool scene. Male Thor falls to the field of battle, the enemies swarm, and then there is a massive bolt of lightning, and a clap of thunder. Then, as the smoke of battle clears, a woman is standing over him in a defensive posture, armor shining with power and the hammer held aloft, classic badass pose. And everyone's just sort of dumbstruck for a minute as the golden warrior surveys the field of battle, then proceeds to kick arse.

Bah, I'm getting myself overly hyped about this reveal scene in my head. xD It's probably not going to be anything like that in the comic, but I can dream!
Yeah, there are some possible redeeming things they could be doing here. We'll have to wait and see. As of right now it's almost entirely a negative that could lead to the dilution of an existing heroine who is just wearing a mask right now. I'd far rather see their costume change slightly if this is the case rather than entirely changing into a female Thor.

Could also be interesting to see if this is a lasting effect of the time he was transformed into a female Thor. Like it actually created a female body or something that has now returned and is quite literally Thor too. Thor Odindaughter or something :p

I'll have to wait and see though.
 

rosac

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The only issue I have with this is the actual name thing. Captain America, captain marvel, spider man are example of titles that can be chopped and changed, some even between genders (obviously not spider-man).

Thor is a name not a title, although I hope that as they're definitely going down this route they keep the book titles as Thor, but give her a new, unique name OR have her originally calling herself Thor due to the shock of sudden new manifested powers caused by Mjolnir or something, but then regains her individuality and takes up a new name, leaving Male Thor his own name.

However- I have the feeling that Thor Girl may be the recipient of the hammer, turning her from Thor light to full blown Thor level superheroine, which would make sense for the name change.


My final question is though... If she is called Thor and treated as Thor in all respects, what'll happen to her when Mjolnir (Inevitably) returns to Donald Blake? I think she'll be shunted out of the limelight and relegated to Thor girl mark 2.
 

happyninja42

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rosac said:
The only issue I have with this is the actual name thing. Captain America, captain marvel, spider man are example of titles that can be chopped and changed, some even between genders (obviously not spider-man).

Thor is a name not a title, although I hope that as they're definitely going down this route they keep the book titles as Thor, but give her a new, unique name OR have her originally calling herself Thor due to the shock of sudden new manifested powers caused by Mjolnir or something, but then regains her individuality and takes up a new name, leaving Male Thor his own name.

However- I have the feeling that Thor Girl may be the recipient of the hammer, turning her from Thor light to full blown Thor level superheroine, which would make sense for the name change.


My final question is though... If she is called Thor and treated as Thor in all respects, what'll happen to her when Mjolnir (Inevitably) returns to Donald Blake? I think she'll be shunted out of the limelight and relegated to Thor girl mark 2.

The issue though, is that in the Marvel-verse, Thor is a title, and not just a name. They've established it from the very beginning, with the engraving on Mjolnir. "Whosoever wields this hammer, shall have the power of Thor" And they've used this loophole many times to let other people be Thor, and headline the comic series. So while yes, I agree that in actual mythology, Thor is very much a single person, in the Marvel-verse, that is not the case at all.

Lightknight said:
Yeah, there are some possible redeeming things they could be doing here. We'll have to wait and see. As of right now it's almost entirely a negative that could lead to the dilution of an existing heroine who is just wearing a mask right now. I'd far rather see their costume change slightly if this is the case rather than entirely changing into a female Thor.

Could also be interesting to see if this is a lasting effect of the time he was transformed into a female Thor. Like it actually created a female body or something that has now returned and is quite literally Thor too. Thor Odindaughter or something :p

I'll have to wait and see though.
Well, personally I don't want it to be Valkyrie, the already established character. When I've used the term Valkyrie in my posts, I'm simply referring to the Choosers of the Slain, and stating that having a valykrie be the female warrior who takes up the mantle of Thor would be thematically fitting in my mind. Granted my premise is assuming the moment of Thor's fall and her rise is taking place in the thick of a major battle, and thus the Choosers would be there as that's their job. But, I have no idea how much of the actual Norse mythology is in the Marvel-verse when it comes to that stuff. For all I know, the only valkyrie is Valkyrie herself, which would make my theory moot.

Are the Valkyrie's as a group that take the souls of dead warriors to Valhalla actually established as a group in the Marvel-verse?
 
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Aren't this article and the announcement of the God-change itself major spoilers?? Why announce these things so far in advance? Wouldn't fans enjoy it more if it were unexpected?

As for the wording change, it's a sad issue with the English language that in the singular, we *only* have gender specific third person pronouns (he, she, him, her, his, hers) while in the plural, we *only* have gender neutral ones (they, their, their's). Spanish for example has "ellos" and "ellas" for "they" masculine and feminine respectively.

Saying that, for years now using "they" as an indefinite pronoun in the singular has been common in speech and writing. Many authors and famous publications use it and have done so not just for years, but centuries. Grammar "purists" might scoff and say it's incorrect, but I use it and think it's a perfectly acceptable use of the language.

Writing "he or she" or "(s)he" or "s/he" gets tiring after a while. Marvel have set a precedent whereby now the inscription may need changing every time Thor changes. Using "they" in place of he or she would mean the inscription could remain unchanged no matter who is Thor at the time.

Tho I expect Odin the Skyfather probably has Microsoft Word 365 with Skydrive, so he can just open a document, make any changes to wording, font, spacing, etc then sync it to Mjolnir via the cloud. He probably has an Asgardian Weapons Inscriptions template and hopefully Asgard has an off-realm backup for users' documents and data.

Out of interest, are there any other Asgardian weapons/Gods that are conditional upon meeting a certain criteria? Like is Loki only Loki as long as s/he wears a stupid hat?
 

happyninja42

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KingsGambit said:
Aren't this article and the announcement of the God-change itself major spoilers?? Why announce these things so far in advance? Wouldn't fans enjoy it more if it were unexpected?
I think they're goal was to try and drum up new readers with the marketing and advertisement. Readers such as myself actually. I don't read comics anymore, and haven't for almost 15 years. If they hadn't put this information out there as a pre-release hype machine, I wouldn't have heard about it. And I am honestly intrigued by this enough to seriously consider picking up the comic series for a bit and see what they do with it. So there, they've got 1 additional potential customer from this marketing, and likely more such as myself. I suspect this was their goal. To revitalize the reader base.


KingsGambit said:
Out of interest, are there any other Asgardian weapons/Gods that are conditional upon meeting a certain criteria? Like is Loki only Loki as long as s/he wears a stupid hat?
Not that I can think of, because Thor didn't have that condition in the actual mythology at all. It's something done with the comic books only. The only other one I can think of that has a signature trait, that if you got wrong would be a very obvious error is Sif, and her (literally) golden hair. Which, they got wrong in the comics. xD Also, they got Thor's hair wrong too, as I seem to recall historically he is red-headed, not blonde. But no, many of the Norse heroes have signature weapons that are part of their image, but I can't think of a single one that has some restriction on how they can use/wield it like the Mjolnir "Whosever be worthy" thing.
 

MorganL4

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hazabaza1 said:
On one hand, the idea that the hammer changes based on whoever is holding it is a neat idea, and I can certainly see why they did it.
On the other hand, having it stay a 'he' and allow her to wield would be a very Éowyn thing to happen so I think it would at least be a neat approach.

Still, I don't read comics so whatever I say is basically null and void!
But this begs the question: Why would Mjölnir the ancient magic hammer give a damn about genitalia? I mean as far as the hammer is concerned, sex seems kind of superfluous, you know?
 

Lightknight

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Happyninja42 said:
Lightknight said:
Yeah, there are some possible redeeming things they could be doing here. We'll have to wait and see. As of right now it's almost entirely a negative that could lead to the dilution of an existing heroine who is just wearing a mask right now. I'd far rather see their costume change slightly if this is the case rather than entirely changing into a female Thor.

Could also be interesting to see if this is a lasting effect of the time he was transformed into a female Thor. Like it actually created a female body or something that has now returned and is quite literally Thor too. Thor Odindaughter or something :p

I'll have to wait and see though.
Well, personally I don't want it to be Valkyrie, the already established character. When I've used the term Valkyrie in my posts, I'm simply referring to the Choosers of the Slain, and stating that having a valykrie be the female warrior who takes up the mantle of Thor would be thematically fitting in my mind. Granted my premise is assuming the moment of Thor's fall and her rise is taking place in the thick of a major battle, and thus the Choosers would be there as that's their job. But, I have no idea how much of the actual Norse mythology is in the Marvel-verse when it comes to that stuff. For all I know, the only valkyrie is Valkyrie herself, which would make my theory moot.

Are the Valkyrie's as a group that take the souls of dead warriors to Valhalla actually established as a group in the Marvel-verse?
Yes, and the original Valkyrie (Brunnhilde) is literally one of those. She was selected by Odin to lead the Valkrior (group of Valkyries that do what you said).

Also, she was recently slain (currently serving Hela in some capacity which doesn't mean she's alive since Hela is the goddess of death). So... this has got to be her (Brunnhilde, not Samantha Parrington), actually. It almost can't be anyone else. To be honest, this wouldn't be a bad resurrection story and the once leader of the group that collects dead souls isn't a bad option to resurrect. I just think it's weird to make her literally Thor.

So there you have it. I believe the current female Thor to be the reincarnation of Brunnhilde (Valkyrie) who has already wielded Thor's hammer once before before losing it in a battle. She has also stated that she isn't just an Asgardian but also something much older. That hasn't been revealed yet so this could be a full fleshing out of Valkyrie. Could be.

Look at this cover, it's Valkryie (I think this was in 2006, probably gave them ideas):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/ULTMTSV2006_COV.jpg
 

Dominic Crossman

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
To be fair, that's what I always thought it said, although obviously I'm misinformed. Still, nice to see they didn't make a stupid oversight on this and keep it as he.
The Internet would explode with fury.
 

Lightknight

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rosac said:
The only issue I have with this is the actual name thing. Captain America, captain marvel, spider man are example of titles that can be chopped and changed, some even between genders (obviously not spider-man).

Thor is a name not a title, although I hope that as they're definitely going down this route they keep the book titles as Thor, but give her a new, unique name OR have her originally calling herself Thor due to the shock of sudden new manifested powers caused by Mjolnir or something, but then regains her individuality and takes up a new name, leaving Male Thor his own name.

However- I have the feeling that Thor Girl may be the recipient of the hammer, turning her from Thor light to full blown Thor level superheroine, which would make sense for the name change.


My final question is though... If she is called Thor and treated as Thor in all respects, what'll happen to her when Mjolnir (Inevitably) returns to Donald Blake? I think she'll be shunted out of the limelight and relegated to Thor girl mark 2.
When it becomes revealed who she actually is her original name may come back into play.

But yes, Thor is a name. It's like there being a new female Steve Rogers rather than there being a female Captain America. That's my primary complaint about the name itself.
 

hazabaza1

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MorganL4 said:
hazabaza1 said:
On one hand, the idea that the hammer changes based on whoever is holding it is a neat idea, and I can certainly see why they did it.
On the other hand, having it stay a 'he' and allow her to wield would be a very Éowyn thing to happen so I think it would at least be a neat approach.

Still, I don't read comics so whatever I say is basically null and void!
But this begs the question: Why would Mjölnir the ancient magic hammer give a damn about genitalia? I mean as far as the hammer is concerned, sex seems kind of superfluous, you know?
'Cos it's fucking maigc and shit, I'unno. Why can a lizard use Mjolnir, and why does Hulk get a sword and decide to murder the world?

Remember we are discussing comic books here, it's a frighteningly deep series with little to no answers for many questions.
 

Evil Smurf

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I'd inscribe it with; "Are you ready to party? We're getting so hammered!"
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
People are also delicious. I eat youtube trolls for breakfast, yum yum!
 

Lightknight

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Evil Smurf said:
I'd inscribe it with; "Are you ready to party? We're getting so hammered!"
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
People are also delicious. I eat youtube trolls for breakfast, yum yum!
You eat crap for breakfast, Shooter McGavin?

If I wielded the hammer, I'd just inscribe it with a threat to anyone that touches the hammer using a pronoun that doesn't include me. "If any non-lightknights be worthy to weild this hammer, you'll get hammer-aids, lightknight gets the hammer though"

Hmm, guess that'll be a developing inscription until I think of a better one.
 

happyninja42

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Lightknight said:
Hmm, guess that'll be a developing inscription until I think of a better one.
"Whosoever be not me, hand's off my fucking tool. Only I get to play with my...hammer" ? xD
 

immortalfrieza

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DaWaffledude said:
It's kind of like how certain words like "sorta" "ain't" "gonna" etc. and certain phrases like "I did good" "You're real clear" etc. will have every proper english obsessed person jumping down your throat because they technically aren't real words and proper sentences respectively despite the fact that just about every english speaking person on the planet uses those words in such a manner. It doesn't make any sense but you'll always find somebody somewhere that goes out of their way to point out the "proper" way of saying things according to some very arbitrary rules and definitions. "He" being gender neutral is just another one of those sorts of words.

tzimize said:
The inscription thing is completely beside the point, the reason to resist this is what is (imo) stifling of creativity. Instead of creating a new, worthwhile hero, with her own powers from Asgard (honestly, not only the men were mighty in that lore) they just give Thor boobs. Because boobs.

Its sad and unnecessary, and to me about as retarded as making Wonder Woman into Wonder Man. What is the point?
The "point" is that Marvel's writers these days are either completely drained of good stories or were all replaced by a bunch of talentless hacks or both that are unable to sell comics off having good stories and characters anymore plus a dose of executive meddling so they pull some obvious publicity stunt like this to piss off their loyal fans as much as possible and sell comics riding off the ensuing controversy instead. Of course they then backpedal on everything a some months later, just to do the same thing to another comic. That's all this is, all gimmicks like this have ever been. If they really wanted the comic to sell on it's own merits Marvel wouldn't be shoving it in everybody's faces every chance they get. A severe lack of creativity and an even greater lack of respect for the fans, the material, and it's history is the problem here. Hell, DC does the same thing.

Wait. Correction, there was a time when gimmicks like this actually weren't gimmicks and where actually an attempt to prove something as part of a great story even though they never lasted, probably sometime back in the late 80's early 90's.

Lightknight said:
Right, they've gone from sexism to sexism in the name of not-sexism. The pendulum often swings too far in the name of equality before swinging back to equality's rightful place.
I think that's what pisses me off about this more than the writers pissing on decades of lore and legions of fans and everything, how hypocritical this whole thing is. It's just as sexist against the male side of the equation in the name of being less sexist even if it was going to be a permanent change as it would be if they took an established female character and turned her male, maybe even more so as nowhere near as many are going to get pissed over the former as with the absolute we'd-never-hear-the-end-of-it=even-long-after-it-was-reversed shitstorm that would occur if they did the latter. This kind of hypocrisy is actually pretty common I've found.

Lupine said:
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...
In short, they've never been particularly consistent about it.

As a matter of fact, they've never really explained what it means to be "worthy" of Mjolnir either, likely so they can make storylines like this. From all I've seen it even seemed like once someone were worthy of Mjolnir it didn't matter whether that person stopped being worthy at some point they were still able to wield it. For example I've been reading a bunch of old Thor comics trying to get caught up and I remember one time they decide to have Loki wield Mjolnir by body swapping with Thor, despite that not making any sense. Then as some have mentioned Thor has become "Not worthy" and lost the use of the hammer later on, or the Mjolnir origin story where Thor was able to lift Mjolnir a bit more the more worthy he became while every other time for everybody else it's firmly rooted to the ground. So, in short again they haven't been particular consistent about how "worthiness" affects the hammer either.
 

Nazrel

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DaWaffledude said:
Nazrel said:
Contrary to common misconception "He" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "She" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a Male/Female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
This is literally the first I have heard of this.

Words mean what the general populace says they mean. It's one of the reasons I'm so fed up about this whole feminism/MRA/SJW mess. No one agrees what the words mean, which means they have no meaning.

No one uses "he" as gender neutral anymore (if they ever did, I haven't bothered to check), just like no one uses "gay" as a synonym for "happy" anymore. No dictionary will change this. A dictionary reflects the speakers of a language, not the other way around. That's why "literally" now officially means both "not figuratively" and "figuratively".

When people say "he", they refer to a male person, or a person they assume is male. Brand me whatever you like, any time I've seen someone called out for using male pronouns in place of gender-neutral ones, I've seen them correct themselves or defend their assumption, not their interpretation of the word "he". Defend your interpretation all you like, it's meaningless if an insignificant amount of people agree with it.

...

Reading back over this post, I may have gotten a bit ranty over what amounts to very little. Seeing people act like their interpretation of a word is the only valid one just gets to me. Sorry.
Feminism/SJW? Labels slapped on broad vaguely defined concepts, thus malleable to narrative.

Gay? A limited use term, but more importantly you know it's historical meaning.

But "He"? "He" is a pronoun; it is one of the foundations of the English language.

While there is some validity to the argument of the flux nature of language, it is the lack of strict definitions that causes these arguments you lament, to allow such a fundamental shift to go uncontested would be a promotion of ignorance.

Regardless of how anachronistic "He" as as a gender neutral pronoun may become; to not at least understand it's historical usage as such, is, on a fundamental level, to misunderstand the majority of anything ever written in Modern English.
 

otakon17

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Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
JarinArenos said:
The hammer magically changing its inscription to suit its current wielder sounds perfectly logical to me. It's by far the least fantastic feature of that artifact.
Yeah, simple explanation. Um, I must have missed it but what is the origin story of this new Thor? What happened to the old one? No longer worthy? Killed in glorious battle? Retired? Got lost at WalMart?
 

JimB

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Anja Bech said:
JimB said:
Wait, why is changing it to "she" silly but changing it to "they" isn't? Yeah, Thor was carrying Mjolnir for ages, but he ain't doing it now, is he?
It's not the change I think is silly, it's the fact that they changed it to be gender specific. It's a teeny tiny thing, I know, and it doesn't really matter, but I still feel it would have made a bit more sense to make the pronoun gender neutral.
Fair enough. Thank you for answering so politely. That's always refreshing in a conversation like this one.

Happyninja42 said:
I think JimB posted previously that the female Thor is someone we know from a previous comic series, but it just hasn't been revealed yet?
No, that was someone else. I swear I remember Joey-Q telling Barbara Walters the new Thor is an original character (I remember because part of me was slightly pissed off at the snub directed at every other woman in the Marvel Universe, since an original character can be taken to imply that none of the existing female characters are worthy of Mjolnir; but that's probably just collateral and unintended), but most everyone else thinks she's an existing character, so maybe I'm wrong.

Sight Unseen said:
I still think it's a bit silly that Thor of all heroes can be replaced. Thor is supposed to be an actual god.
No, in Marvel continuity, he's supposed to be an alien who inspired myths of an actual god...sort of. It's complicated. Time travel is involved.

Happyninja42 said:
Are the Valkyries as a group that take the souls of dead warriors to Valhalla actually established as a group in the Marvel-verse?
The Valkyries do exist, but they are not psychopomps. I think they're just a branch of Asgard's military, but you might doublecheck that before you take my word for it.
 

immortalfrieza

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otakon17 said:
Yeah, simple explanation. Um, I must have missed it but what is the origin story of this new Thor? What happened to the old one? No longer worthy? Killed in glorious battle? Retired? Got lost at WalMart?
I don't know either, but judging by Marvel's recent track record Thor being gone because of getting lost at WalMart would probably make more sense than what we'll get. That would be pretty funny actually.
 

Bonecrusher

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Cronenberg1 said:
I like how nobody cares about gender neutral pronouns until it's changed from male to female. Someone makes a valid criticism about the use of he as a default pronoun for anything with an unidentified gender? "you're just being PC, stop being so offended all the time!" The text on Thor's hammer changes from he to she? "Hey lets be gender neutral now!"
OK, so we should stop calling "ships" as "she" and start calling them "it"?
 

Cronenberg1

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Bonecrusher said:
Cronenberg1 said:
I like how nobody cares about gender neutral pronouns until it's changed from male to female. Someone makes a valid criticism about the use of he as a default pronoun for anything with an unidentified gender? "you're just being PC, stop being so offended all the time!" The text on Thor's hammer changes from he to she? "Hey lets be gender neutral now!"
OK, so we should stop calling "ships" as "she" and start calling them "it"?
Hey I'm not saying it's all that important. I just think it's funny people started caring about that kind of thing, when it was changed from he to she, when most people probably wouldn't think it was that big a deal most of the time.
 

Drake the Dragonheart

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Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
 

immortalfrieza

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Drake the Dragonheart said:
Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
It was Odin himself that inscribed the inscription, and his word is quite literally cosmic law. Therefore, if the hammer has "he" on it, only males may wield it unless Odin himself says otherwise.
 

Baddamobs

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Err, I'm in the camp that think it should probably just be gender neutral. Hell, isn't the whole push for gender-neutral terms a thing feminism likes? Would have thought that would have gone over better then the current 'she.'
 

JimB

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Baddamobs said:
Err, I'm in the camp that think it should probably just be gender-neutral. Hell, isn't the whole push for gender-neutral terms a thing feminism likes?
Some feminists like that. Some don't. Feminism is not a monolith, and there are a lot of different takes and opinions to be had. I personally do not mind describing a woman as a woman. I mean, she is holding the hammer, not they, unless this new character is one who takes pains to describe itself without reference to its sex.
 

Overhead

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Inscription of Mjolnir in What If #66 Vol 2 released October 1994 where Rogue gets the power of Thor and becomes the new Goddess of Thunder


Cover of the issue (Which is pretty accurate as comic covers go seeing as she kills the shit out of the Avengers)
 

happyninja42

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immortalfrieza said:
Drake the Dragonheart said:
Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
It was Odin himself that inscribed the inscription, and his word is quite literally cosmic law. Therefore, if the hammer has "he" on it, only males may wield it unless Odin himself says otherwise.
Yes because it couldn't possibly be that the writers of the comic simply used the most personally familiar pronoun, and didn't think that the comic would like 30+ years, and also just didn't consider a female Thor when they were coming up with the comic. It must be cosmic law by Odin!! xD

Also, it's not like comic book universes don't retcon their cosmic laws and preset understood constants all the time. Hell comics are famous for that kind of stuff.

Besides, given the actual Norse mythology having plenty of female characters who are perfectly capable warriors, the idea that they would see some problem with a woman fighter is kind of silly.

JimB said:
Baddamobs said:
Err, I'm in the camp that think it should probably just be gender-neutral. Hell, isn't the whole push for gender-neutral terms a thing feminism likes?
Some feminists like that. Some don't. Feminism is not a monolith, and there are a lot of different takes and opinions to be had. I personally do not mind describing a woman as a woman. I mean, she is holding the hammer, not they, unless this new character is one who takes pains to describe itself without reference to its sex.
Yeah I have no issue with describing her as a her/she. But I think to make things less messy with the inscription, the easiest fix for that is to just have it say "they". Then it's a non-issue when it comes to anyone becoming the new Thor. As long as they are worthy, then it's fine.
 

immortalfrieza

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Happyninja42 said:
immortalfrieza said:
Drake the Dragonheart said:
Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
It was Odin himself that inscribed the inscription, and his word is quite literally cosmic law. Therefore, if the hammer has "he" on it, only males may wield it unless Odin himself says otherwise.
Yes because it couldn't possibly be that the writers of the comic simply used the most personally familiar pronoun, and didn't think that the comic would like 30+ years, and also just didn't consider a female Thor when they were coming up with the comic. It must be cosmic law by Odin!! xD

Also, it's not like comic book universes don't retcon their cosmic laws and preset understood constants all the time. Hell comics are famous for that kind of stuff.

Besides, given the actual Norse mythology having plenty of female characters who are perfectly capable warriors, the idea that they would see some problem with a woman fighter is kind of silly.
I don't think you get it. In the Marvel comics, if Odin declares something, it happens. The cosmic laws, the laws of physics, you name it will change to accommodate him. If Odin says "if he be worthy" then only males should be able to wield the hammer. The writers attempting to let a woman use it is a blatant retcon and a complete insult to the history of the Marvel Asgardians.
 

Overhead

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immortalfrieza said:
I don't think you get it. In the Marvel comics, if Odin declares something, it happens. The cosmic laws, the laws of physics, you name it will change to accommodate him. If Odin says "if he be worthy" then only males should be able to wield the hammer. The writers attempting to let a woman use it is a blatant retcon and a complete insult to the history of the Marvel Asgardians.
Nah, you need to be a lot stronger than Odin to change the laws of physics. He can do it on a localised level (like the hammer not being picked up by people who are not worthy) but he's not a universal scale reality warper and there are more powerful beings who can overrule anything he tries.

It's also never been shown that the intention behind the magic was that only men should be able to wield it, rather than simply a male orientated pronoun used in the inscription which has no bearing on the magic.

If anything it should be assumed that both genders can pick it up (I certainly always have) because having a weapon which only worthy people can use and only allowing men to be worthy is fairly scuzzy.
 

JimB

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Happyninja42 said:
I think to make things less messy with the inscription, the easiest fix for that is to just have it say "they." Then it's a non-issue when it comes to anyone becoming the new Thor. As long as they are worthy, then it's fine.
This is a situation in which English just falls short. There's really no one, appropriate word here, and "he or she," while the most grammatically correct, is still clunky. As it stands, I am fine with Mjolnir saying "she," if only because the panel that shows the inscription changing is actually kind of cool.
 

GeneralFungi

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FogHornG36 said:
because man no longer means mankind

also, I'm more offended that the inscription is in English!
If it can change one word depending on the gender of the wielder, I wonder if it can change the translation of the inscription depending on the native language of those wielding it as well.

I dunno, I find it to be an interesting and novel concept. It adds another interesting layer of mysticism behind a mystical object, and I'm really not sure why this is a problem for some people. Comic book characters have been getting female doubles for a long time now. Most have just kind of been more of a walking signpost (Super Girl) some have grown off from their roots and developed their own identity. (She-Hulk)
 

BoogieManFL

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I always wondered why they just didn't word in a neutral way. Having it go one way or the other seems silly.

So before the hammer would only work for worthy men? Now it'll only work for worthy women?

Either way, silly.
 

JimB

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BoogieManFL said:
So before the hammer would only work for worthy men? Now it'll only work for worthy women?
I think we can assume, from the fact that the inscription's wording changes, that the purpose is not to serve as a legal bar against either gender, but rather as a combination of warning that only the worthy may wield it and declaration that someone worthy is wielding it.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But what about those that don't identify with being people? ;)

OT: I don't know why they had to change the character in the first place. Unless they go back to old Thor when he was an alter-ego for an established character on Earth. If it is the alter-ego of a new human that Mjolnir has chosen then that is cool, like having a new Green Lantern, or a Captain Americe... but if they have just rewritten the back story for an established character then that annoys me. Why not just make a new character within the world that emulates the previous one? Kind of like Bullet Ray Bill was... He wasn't Thor, but he is essentially the same.
 

Overhead

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Elementary - Dear Watson said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But what about those that don't identify with being people? ;)

OT: I don't know why they had to change the character in the first place. Unless they go back to old Thor when he was an alter-ego for an established character on Earth. If it is the alter-ego of a new human that Mjolnir has chosen then that is cool, like having a new Green Lantern, or a Captain Americe... but if they have just rewritten the back story for an established character then that annoys me. Why not just make a new character within the world that emulates the previous one? Kind of like Bullet Ray Bill was... He wasn't Thor, but he is essentially the same.
It isn't rewriting Thor's backstory. He has temporarily become unworthy, so he can't lift the hammer and had to leave it on the moon. This is someone else who is worthy, who is female and will apparently call herself Thor but is a separate person from the original Thor.
 

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Overhead said:
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But what about those that don't identify with being people? ;)

OT: I don't know why they had to change the character in the first place. Unless they go back to old Thor when he was an alter-ego for an established character on Earth. If it is the alter-ego of a new human that Mjolnir has chosen then that is cool, like having a new Green Lantern, or a Captain Americe... but if they have just rewritten the back story for an established character then that annoys me. Why not just make a new character within the world that emulates the previous one? Kind of like Bullet Ray Bill was... He wasn't Thor, but he is essentially the same.
It isn't rewriting Thor's backstory. He has temporarily become unworthy, so he can't lift the hammer and had to leave it on the moon. This is someone else who is worthy, who is female and will apparently call herself Thor but is a separate person from the original Thor.
That's good then. I haven't been able to see much on it, but that at least makes much more sense. Much better than making an Antonietta Stark, or a Shiela Banner...!
 

StewShearerOld

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One would assume that the hammer's engraved in Norse and the English is a translation of convenience for the reader.

Thor being a public domain mythological figure and not really a "Marvel" anything, and all.
 

AdamG3691

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JimB said:
Sigmund Av Volsung said:
It could've had "thee" or "they" to begin with.
"Thee" is a second-person pronoun. It's a little clumsy in this instance. I personally hate "they" when used as a singular pronoun, but it is more or less acceptable.
iirc, it's also very informal, "thee" and "thou" held the implication that you were friends with the person it referred to, like the difference between saying "hello" and "hey"/"hi"/"aight?" nowadays
 

DoctorImpossible

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This is all wonderfully inclusive but they already did it two decades ago. See What If...? V2 #66, October 1994 "What If... Rogue Possessed the Power of Thor?"

 

Drake Barrow

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DoctorImpossible said:
This is all wonderfully inclusive but they already did it two decades ago. See What If...? V2 #66, October 1994 "What If... Rogue Possessed the Power of Thor?"

Thank you. I was worried that I was the only one who remembered that. The "he or she" thing fell out of general use, but it's inclusive and would make sense. Changing it to "she" almost implies Mjolnir has become the Witchblade and won't work for men (being tired of their shit).

The point is, of course, rather moot. Either these will be great stories about a great character, or they're going to be total crap. The fine details are going to be lost in the shuffle.
 

JimB

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DoctorImpossible said:
This is all wonderfully inclusive but they already did it two decades ago.
I don't think a one-off issue of an explicitly not-canon book really counts as "doing this before."
 

DoctorImpossible

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JimB said:
I don't think a one-off issue of an explicitly not-canon book really counts as "doing this before."
I didn't say it had been done well, or had long-lasting effects, now did I? Only that it has been done, and the proof is right there in front of you.

Try hard enough and you can probably manufacture a few excuses for why this new version doesn't count either.
 

JimB

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DoctorImpossible said:
JimB said:
I don't think a one-off issue of an explicitly not-canon book really counts as "doing this before."
I didn't say it had been done well, or had long-lasting effects, now did I?
No, just that "this" had been done before. I don't know what you think "this" is, but I would describe "this" as a woman becoming Thor in Marvel 616 continuity for an extended period of time.
 

Coruptin

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you know the whole point of these shaking up the paradigm stuff is just to get people actually caring and discussing thor and comics in general outside the context of the films. it's obviously working.
 

DoctorImpossible

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JimB said:
I don't know what you think "this" is, but I would describe "this" as a woman becoming Thor in Marvel 616 continuity for an extended period of time.
Then you'd be wrong, Jim, because we're specifically talking about Marvel altering the inscription on Thor's hammer to include a female wielder, as per the article title

"MARVEL GIVING THOR'S HAMMER NEW FEMALE FRIENDLY INSCRIPTION"

Maybe next time you should take the time to read the article you're commenting on before you get all huffy and decide to launch a little one-man tirade.
 

JimB

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DoctorImpossible said:
Then you'd be wrong, Jim, because we're specifically talking about Marvel altering the inscription on Thor's hammer to include a female wielder, as per the article title.
That is not the only conversation happening in this thread, so there's a limited amount of blame I'll accept for any misunderstandings resulting from your choice to play the pronoun game rather than refer explicitly to the subject of the discussion you're trying to have; and who's "we," exactly?

DoctorImpossible said:
Maybe next time you should take the time to read the article you're commenting on before you get all huffy and decide to launch a little one-man tirade.
Two things, DoctorImpossible. First, prior to this post, I have only spoken three sentences to you across two different posts, so I don't know what you think a tirade is, but I'm pretty sure we disagree on the definition. Second, I find your accusation that I haven't read the article kind of ironically amusing, since I don't think you've read the thread, or else you'd know that I have made roughly a dozen posts in it, that the point you've made has already been made in it, and the image you've posted has already been posted in it.
 

Thorn14

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Eh, no point in getting upset over these things. The Status Quo will be back in time for Avengers 2.