Marvel's Black Widow

AnxietyProne

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What...did you do...to Taskmaster, MCU writers?

Eh, nothings really stopping a "real" Taskmaster from showing up and being like "That just Drakovs shitty imitation with a power helmet", like aren't we getting actual ten rings Mandarin in Shang Chi now, despite IM3
If Tony Masters actually showed up and did this, I would stand up and cheer and not feel the least bit embarrassed.
 

SilentPony

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What...did you do...to Taskmaster, MCU writers?
I mean the same thing they did to the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. Just completely undo an entire character and make it into a "Gotcha!" twist that is supposed to be clever because no one saw such a poor use of a character coming.
From what I know of the comics Taskmaster is like a snarky, wise-cracking bugs bunny character, which personally I don't like that trope, but if that's the character, that's the character.
Its not like Marvel comics is lacking for emotionally dead, brainwashed with a tragic past female assassin characters.
 

AnxietyProne

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From what I know of the comics Taskmaster is like a snarky, wise-cracking bugs bunny character, which personally I don't like that trope, but if that's the character, that's the character.
As a fanboy for Taskie, I can elaborate; he's not quite a Bugs Bunny character, and his mouth got less motor over time, but he's still a cocky as fuck, greedy, usually immoral but sometimes does the right thing bastard who loves making money off of training red shirts and doing merc work. There's a reason he plays off so well with Deadpool in the comics.
 

Piscian

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I am a big Task Master fan. There was a solid period after Civil War in the comics where all the books focused on B-listers, new kids and relatively unused characters. At that point they started to add a lot of depth to Task Master. He's not quite wacky like deadpool, a little closer to a snarky bruce campbell type, but he's still the level of mercenary that even Captain America would rather not have to deal with if he can avoid it. Then they did that mini-series explaining that he's essentially an SHIELD Manchurian Candidate. He can't keep long term memories and so he thinks hes a mercenary criminal, but every once in a while he'll snap out of it and check in with the SHIELD so the Marvel heroes generally leave him be, because he's more of an anti-hero.

With all that said, I was very disappointed that they didn't use anything about Task Master that makes him interesting, in Black Widow. I really hope either they'll develop the character more after this film or pull a switcheroo and say theres a another villain named Task Master. I think they're really undervaluing the fandom around Task master. I'm pretty sure they even put him in one of the recent Capcom games MVC3 or whatever.
 
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Adam Jensen

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I love MCU, but I'm not blind to its flaws. Black Widow is the worst movie in the MCU repertoire by far. It's not even a contest. I struggle to figure out how they allowed a bunch of nobodies to make this movie and who the fuck green-lit the screenplay for this piece of crap. It's like what happens when you leave a bunch of toddlers unsupervised. They just shit everywhere. This is the first MCU movie that was boring to watch, on top of being just badly written. I couldn't wait for it to be over.
 

SilentPony

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I love MCU, but I'm not blind to its flaws. Black Widow is the worst movie in the MCU repertoire by far. It's not even a contest. I struggle to figure out how they allowed a bunch of nobodies to make this movie and who the fuck green-lit the screenplay for this piece of crap. It's like what happens when you leave a bunch of toddlers unsupervised. They just shit everywhere. This is the first MCU movie that was boring to watch, on top of being just badly written. I couldn't wait for it to be over.
I think the movie was very scrapped together. They waited too long to give Black Widow her own movie, and killed her character off, so they had to make a prequel movie that can't change anything about her or add anything that isn't in Infinity War or Endgame.
That's why she's basically super-human, because she can't die until Endgame. And why the big sisterly moment is Widow 2.0 giving her a vest, that truly I didn't realize she was wearing in Infinity War until a review I read pointed it out. I thought she was just wearing a regular spy suit.
And some Suits said that with Widow dead in the current timeline, this would be a great movie to introduce Widow 2.0 and advertise for the Disney+ shows, so make sure all the important lines, scenes and plot points are about Widow 2.0, and not ScarJo.
They took what was supposed to be a better late than never send-off movie for Black Widow and turned it into an origin story for her younger, blonde replacement.
 

Adam Jensen

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I think the movie was very scrapped together. They waited too long to give Black Widow her own movie, and killed her character off, so they had to make a prequel movie that can't change anything about her or add anything that isn't in Infinity War or Endgame.
That's why she's basically super-human, because she can't die until Endgame. And why the big sisterly moment is Widow 2.0 giving her a vest, that truly I didn't realize she was wearing in Infinity War until a review I read pointed it out. I thought she was just wearing a regular spy suit.
And some Suits said that with Widow dead in the current timeline, this would be a great movie to introduce Widow 2.0 and advertise for the Disney+ shows, so make sure all the important lines, scenes and plot points are about Widow 2.0, and not ScarJo.
They took what was supposed to be a better late than never send-off movie for Black Widow and turned it into an origin story for her younger, blonde replacement.
It's a bad movie because it's a bad movie, not because it came too late or because it wasn't centered on Scarlett Johansson enough.

The story is bad, the dialogue is bad, the characters are bad, the villain is bad. It feels like a cheap cash grab that has nothing substatial to offer, nothing interesting to say and nothing valuable to add to the MCU or any of the characters. There is absolutely zero character development in the movie. Not just when it comes to Natasha, but other characters as well. Every character is one-dimensional and armed to the teeth with horrendous and badly timed Disney humor. Every time these characters try to make a joke, it falls flat and kills the entire scene because the idiotic writers are neither well versed in writing jokes nor in timing them. The jokes are placed in the worst possible scenes that should be serious and that could and should serve as character development moments.
 

SilentPony

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It's a bad movie because it's a bad movie, not because it came too late or because it wasn't centered on Scarlett Johansson enough.

The story is bad, the dialogue is bad, the characters are bad, the villain is bad. It feels like a cheap cash grab that has nothing substatial to offer, nothing interesting to say and nothing valuable to add to the MCU or any of the characters. There is absolutely zero character development in the movie. Not just when it comes to Natasha, but other characters as well. Every character is one-dimensional and armed to the teeth with horrendous and badly timed Disney humor. Every time these characters try to make a joke, it falls flat and kills the entire scene because the idiotic writers are neither well versed in writing jokes nor in timing them. The jokes are placed in the worst possible scenes that should be serious and that could and should serve as character development moments.
Im not sure its just bad because its bad. Bad has to have reasons.
Yeah the story/plot is bad, but not just 'cause, but because they were trying to do two completely separate stories, a send off for ScarJo and an intro movie for Widow 2.0.
The characters are bad because it doesn't matter what happens to any of them in the story. The story has 0 stakes.
The villain is bad because its a British actor trying and failing to be a Russian mobster, and again he's a throw away villain in a 0 stakes movie.
And the stakes are 0 because they waited too long and already killed off ScarJo, and we know they're not killing off Widow 2.0.
Humor wise, take it or leave it for me. I laughed at one or two jokes, but think the Deadpool Bugs Bunny self-aware jokes are a detriment to movies, not a plus.
 
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Piscian

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I enjoyed it, which I feel puts me in the minority on this forum, which generally doesn't seem to like much of anything.
Naw I think theres just an exceptionally vocal minority of grinches on here.
 

SilentPony

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Naw I think theres just an exceptionally vocal minority of grinches on here.
I mean critical people, not mean spirited. I wasn't satisfied with Black Widow, but Im not happy about that. I enjoy enjoying things, and I didn't really understand or enjoy this one.
and at least that I've seen no one here is telling other people they should dislike Black Widow, just giving reasons as to why we don't.
 

MrCalavera

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On the RLM review they noted the director, Cate Shortland, only has worked on women led dramas, in some cases spot on with descriptions similar to the family dynamics in Black Widow. It's highly likely that she was literally only involved in the script and direction for those scenes and all the CG action stuff was somebody else. It's even possible that the action scenes were dictated and being worked on before live filming even started.

It's a strange world to live in when where films are being made by entirely different crews depending on the scene because it's all auto-generated corporate shovelware. Despite that I'll be honest I still enjoyed it so I can't complain, although it's definitely on my list mcu films Ill never watch again.
The best part of that review was introducing me to Cate Shortland.

Remember to dislike and subscribe!

I like a cup of coffee better than I like Black Widow.
I do like myself a good coffee! In fact, i started a cold brew, and spent thinking about it more than i did about Black Widow movie.
 
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Bob_McMillan

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Does anyone remember the guy who just procures everything for Natasha? Is he supposed to be someone notable? I was just confused by his inclusion, because I can't even remember if someone said his name.
 

Piscian

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Does anyone remember the guy who just procures everything for Natasha? Is he supposed to be someone notable? I was just confused by his inclusion, because I can't even remember if someone said his name.
He's famous for playing the husband on handmaid's tale. His name's Alexi, but mostly I think it was just a cross-promotional thing. Disney has been big on pushing the girl power slant to boost ticket sales so it's like "hey look we got the guy from handmaid's tale, the other show lots of women watch!" To my knowledge the character itself was just made up for the movie.
 

Bob_McMillan

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He's famous for playing the husband on handmaid's tale. His name's Alexi, but mostly I think it was just a cross-promotional thing. Disney has been big on pushing the girl power slant to boost ticket sales so it's like "hey look we got the guy from handmaid's tale, the other show lots of women watch!" To my knowledge the character itself was just made up for the movie.
That's genuinely surprising, especially when I'm sure Marvel had some character out there whose name they could have plastered on him.
 

SilentPony

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That's genuinely surprising, especially when I'm sure Marvel had some character out there whose name they could have plastered on him.
Apparently the big beefy prisoner who the Red Guardian breaks his hand, is a character. He's a mutant, future Xmen. He's a wearbear.
 

Piscian

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That's genuinely surprising, especially when I'm sure Marvel had some character out there whose name they could have plastered on him.
I don't recall when Black Widow was original teased, but I think there was probably a point in Phase 2 when there was some genuine interest in doing a serious Black Widow movie. It's very possible that some of the first half of the film likely came from an earlier script or something where it would be a serious tentpole movie for scarlett, however I think it kept getting shelved in the scripting process until there was a filming gap and so they just sorta shuffled some ideas together and pooped this out. What I'm getting at is that I don't think a lot of time or energy was spent of giving this one the proper Marvel makeover with the easter eggs and all that. If you pay attention alexis scenes never take place in the context of the larger film. They are much more of an after thought. Same thing with the post credits. There's an actual comics committee of artists and writers from marvel that get input on films like "Like hey thats gonna be a continuity issue, or hey lets put a prowler cameo in spider-man". I don't they had much involvement in this one.
 
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thebobmaster

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I don't recall when Black Widow was original teased, but I think there was probably a point in Phase 2 when there was some genuine interest in doing a serious Black Widow movie.
Apparently, the first plans for a ScarJo Black Widow film date back to at least 2010, when Feige was talking about it, but said their focus was on the first Avengers movie at the time. Problem with that is simple, however. For a while, Ike Perlmutter was still involved with the creative side of Marvel Studios, and he was notorious for believing that anything female- or minority-led would not be what audiences wanted. He was personally responsible for it taking so long for a Black Panther or Captain Marvel movie for the same reason.

Apparently, there were still issues after Perlmutter was removed from the picture, but I was just providing some more detail to show that there is in fact a LONG pre-development history with this film.
 

Piscian

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Apparently, the first plans for a ScarJo Black Widow film date back to at least 2010, when Feige was talking about it, but said their focus was on the first Avengers movie at the time. Problem with that is simple, however. For a while, Ike Perlmutter was still involved with the creative side of Marvel Studios, and he was notorious for believing that anything female- or minority-led would not be what audiences wanted. He was personally responsible for it taking so long for a Black Panther or Captain Marvel movie for the same reason.

Apparently, there were still issues after Perlmutter was removed from the picture, but I was just providing some more detail to show that there is in fact a LONG pre-development history with this film.
Aaaahh nooo you've invoked the cuurrrssee

rtrleight452169-1574458907.jpg
 
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