Mass Effect 2 is a disappointment

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hypothetical fact

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I along with alot of other players on the Bioware forums ask, what is the point in an action rpg that can't deliver either?

The roleplaying is nill with each choice reflecting the tone in which a character gives you the exact same message. Compounded by the previous game's choices which turned out to be meaningless.
This is the typical level of choice in ME2
*Paragon*
"You saved my family and donated to my retirement, will you help me again?"
"Of course for I am the warrior of justice."
"please help me with this corrupt offical."
*Renegade*
"You killed my family and stole my life savings, will you please help me this time?"
"Get lost"
"If you change your mind please help me with this corrupt offical."

The leveling and stats along with loot system is gone so combat is pointless other than to reach the next door where you can meet another npc with a tedious request much like the above.

The combat is just watered down gears with enemies following two forms of ai. Walk at you, and bob up and down behind cover. Throw in most of the enemies look alike while the environments are the exact same cargo crates thrown around a recoloured backdrop and there is no thrill in combat.

The story is painfully shallow. Shepard recruits team, Shepard goes on suicide mission with team, loyal members survive. Perhaps most of it was left to the loyalty missions but each one is entirely pointless to the plot while any action you take has zero consequences. In the original Mass Effect when you recieved a loyalty mission it was because you took the time to talk to the characters and learn their backstory. Here that has been cut out, instead you can ignore them completely and still get their mission. You don't even have to talk to them to find out they have a mission because your yeoman will list off every character willing to spill their life secrets to someone they had a single conversation.

The exploration though annoying in ME has been replaced by probing, basically going over a planet with a metal detector. At first tedious this quickly reveals itself to be padding because if you want upgrades you need resources. If you need resources you have to probe. Sure you can find 500 platinum in a case every so often but that won't mean jack when you need 50,000 for a med bay upgrade. So what is the term normally used for repetitive activies with no alternative and no entertainment? Got 100,000 Iridium but have no credits to buy anything at a shop? Too bad that Iridium is just going to follow you around because there are no foundries looking to buy.

In a true sign this game was designed for those who wouldn't care for it, the difficulty is based around normal. On a scale of casual, normal, verteran, hardcore and insanity balancing the game to normal means anyone who ventures past the modes designed for children will find their characters gimped. Half the abilites become useless and the other half become spam, simplifing the combat and rpg elements further. The Vanguard a class defined by its ability to charge through enemies like a freight train is forced behind crates because charge will only knock an enemy over and let the rest of them shoot at you, point blank (this is assuming charge doesn't lock up on an ankle high crate just in front of them or send them out of the map forcing you to load because this game is glitchy too). The adept who is meant to finish battles without firing a shot must finish battles without firing a power because almost all powers don't work on enemies with shields or armour and everyone has shields AND armour on insane. Sure you can chain powers together to deal more damage but sticking your head out to fire a power then rushing to get the second in time before your screen fills with red jam is just pointless when you could fire warp twice to do the same job. The result? I hope you like using warp because that's the only power that works. I'd go on but there are too many classes and trust me, they are all dull as dishwater on harder modes.

The only use I see people getting out of this game is a dating sim though that is poorly done as Shepard will turn a dialogue option as simple as, "can I help?" into, "let me help you into something more comfortable." this makes it hard to actually act friendly to any crew members without Shepard trying to cheat on your love interest while romancing the LI is as simple as skipping through meaningless blather while agreeing with everything they say.

Funnily enough those terrible romantic conversations are the only time Shepard actually knows how to talk. The rest of the time Bioware thought talking meant, "What's the problem?", "Why did they act this way?", "How did you respond?", "Where were you in the night in question?" and other questions that make Shepard come off as an interrogater to the homeless man down the street.

The rest of the problems such as the hacking minigame, the empty environments and the weapons that all feel the same have all been criticised in detail by others and everything else would be spoileriffic. So if you do feel like buying this game despite it being a poor attempt to appeal to two markets at once just remember to strike the giant enemy crab in its weak point for massive damage. You'll know when you see it.
 

reg42

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Mar 18, 2009
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I disagree with you. I think you're knitpicking too much, and you didn't so much write a review as write a criticism. A review is meant to be non-biased, while this was just pointing out the flaws.
And a lot of the things you didn't like, I did like.
 

veloper

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I found this useful.

Maybe I'll get ME1 cheap when I get bored with my other games.
 

jacob97900

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Mar 17, 2009
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I agree with reg42, i found it fun. The story was interesting and there was nothing wrong with the combat in my opinion, i actually found it more fun than the original. You say that your choices don't influence the story at all but you never know where the story might lead in Mass Effect 3 and how your decision's affect the story.
The way they did the speaking system i thought was great, by only having a brief description of what he might say it put the character more on the spot so it was less of a spend 10 minutes figuring out what exactly you want to say to a more realistic quick reply.
The probing system i admit wasn't the best feature in the game but what would you prefere them to do, individually render hundreds of planets and spend another two years in development.
Blind criticism never solved anything, better you go to their website and post suggestions as to what they should change in the third mass effect to make it a more enjoyable game for everyone.

Edit: They also managed to fix most if not all of the bugs that commonly occured in the first game.
 

Jeronus

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Nov 14, 2008
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I played the first game so I am bound to play the next game but you have made all the more wary of the sequel.
 

Typhusoid

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Nov 20, 2008
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OK lets go through this point-by-point

1."The roleplaying is nill". I really dont know how you got to this one. Of course there are some examples just like you gave, but in the game at large your desicions carry over and influence later actions, which is done far better than in any other r.p.g i've seen.

2. "The combat sucks". Dude WTF. Your critiscising the gameplay for being a pointless time-filler between plot points. Yes it is. Just like it is in EVERY SINGLE GAME.

3. "The probing". Yes, I think most people agree this is not best used, but it can hardly be called grinding because it isn't mandatory, thus defeating the cruz of your entire argument.

4."Poor Dialogue." I suppose this is largely a matter of opinion, but I found this to be one of the best written games I've ever played.

In any case, it seems like your just pointing out the flaws rather than even trying to be balanced, and many of the critiscisms you level can be applied to many other games far more aptly.
 

More Fun To Compute

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Nov 18, 2008
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Typhusoid said:
2. "The combat sucks". Dude WTF. Your critiscising the gameplay for being a pointless time-filler between plot points. Yes it is. Just like it is in EVERY SINGLE GAME.
I now think that I trust the opinion in the OP more than you.

Might pick this up if I ever see it in a big Steam sale. The first was sort of mediocre to me but good enough to play through. I would buy a sequel for £5 to see how they have changed it.
 

Baby Tea

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Sep 18, 2008
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Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with pretty much everything you said.

Mass Effect is a terrible example of a traditional RPG.
But!
Mass Effect is a phenomenal example of a modern RPG.

If you're looking for Dungeons and Dragons in space, which it seems you are since you're complaining about stats and looting (Two byproducts of RPGs, not two necessities), then yes: You'll be disappointed. Mass Effect isn't about either of those things. Mass Effect is about a huge, over-arcing story (ME1, ME2, ME3), using cinematic storytelling, interesting characters, and interesting worlds.

Everything is designed to keep the game moving, not have you on pause in the middle of a 'space dungeon' while you try and figure out which gun is better against 'space orcs', and which armor will off you the best balanced protection. Those things have their place, and it's not in Mass Effect.

You want inventory management, huge dialog trees, and stats?
Go play Dragon Age (Another awesome RPG from Bioware).

You complain about the dialog choices giving you the same options no matter what you choose, but you're really missing the point, there. Unlike, say, Dragon Age, where you have to go through page after page of dialog trees to get people to say what you need to know, Mass Effect's dialog is going from A, to B. Everyone starts at A, and nearly everyone ends at B. But it's how you get there that's the difference. Dialog is half about information for your 'quest' or 'mission', and half about you characterizing who your Commander Shepard is! The dialog is just like the game: Everyone's Commander Shepard is out to save the galaxy. Everyone in ME1 is going to kill Sovereign, regardless of how you played the game. BUT, the focus isn't on A or B, it's on how you, less as a player and more as a character, did it. Were you ruthless? Kind? In between?

Mass Effect is the epitome of awesome protagonist characterization.
And if you're going to complain about looting, simplistic dialog trees, sub-par combat, and a poor story, then you obviously just don't 'get' Mass Effect. You're missing the point on so many levels, simply because it seems you're looking for a traditional RPG.
Well, like I said, go play Dragon Age.
 

The_ModeRazor

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I disaggree.
Mass Effect 2. Is. Awesome.
Sure, the combat isn't very RPG-like, looting is not exactly central and you don't get to have 2000 completely useless and fucking annoying items, but you get... what's it called?
Oh yeah. Fun.
Paired up with a great story and some pretty damn good characters, what else could you want?
 

social_outcast

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Jul 31, 2008
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I really don't know where this one came from to be honest - I consider Mass effect 2 to be the single most dedicated yet well sculpted squeal to a game since Banjo-Tooie - ie. it made a continuation within the same setting, with mechanical changes and additions, but without destroying the feel of the game (in other words, its everything Deus Ex: Invisible War should have been, but wasn't). Also it totally kicks the ass of any other story telling I've seen in gaming recently :p
 

bladeofdarkness

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while i completely disagree about the review in general
there is ONE point i really have to scratch my head at
namely, the "the combat sucks" one

for someone who seems to complain that the game lacks in the RPG department, complaining about the combat seems rather odd
namely because, you usually DONT play RPG's for their amazing combat system
after all, the traditional RPG table top games had combat thats pretty much limited to "roll the dice"
and most RPG's nowadays limit the combat to, as Yahtzee puts it, "kicking at each other shins under someone falls over"
given that, wouldn't the combat in mass effect 2 be a vast improvment ?
there are games that get sold based ONLY on combat mechanics of this level, and some of them are massive hits (gears of war is the best example)
here you get a game that effectively combines 3rd person shooter combat, and pretty good RPG elements
 

G1eet

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I'm reminded of that old adage about how similar opinions are to a certain kind of rear-end irritations...

On topic- I agree with Baby Tea. You wanted traditional? One look at the boxart should have set off alarms in your skull. You want mindless looting and an even DEEPER story? Go replay Oblivion or Morrowind.
hypothetical fact said:
when you need 50,000 for a med bay upgrade.
HA. That is definitely not a necessary upgrade for the ship. The armor, shields, and cannon are.

All the med bay does is get rid of Shepard's scars, if you're a stickler for outward appearances.
 

ThreeKneeNick

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Aug 4, 2009
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I can agree the main plot is very shallow. The bulk of the game is assembling your team and doing their loyalty missions. You do learn a lot about them personally by doing this, there is plenty of story around, but the main collector plot fades in comparison. There are like, what, five or six collector missions ? There was actually a time when i forgot why the hell i am assembling a team, there was just so many side things and not enough focus on the collectors.

I kinda disagree on your other points, the game is very fun, although for ME3 i wish they would bring some more complex leveling systems.
 

tetron

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Dec 9, 2009
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hypothetical fact said:
I along with alot of other players on the Bioware forums ask, what is the point in an action rpg that can't deliver either?

The roleplaying is nill with each choice reflecting the tone in which a character gives you the exact same message. Compounded by the previous game's choices which turned out to be meaningless.
This is the typical level of choice in ME2
*Paragon*
"You saved my family and donated to my retirement, will you help me again?"
"Of course for I am the warrior of justice."
"please help me with this corrupt offical."
*Renegade*
"You killed my family and stole my life savings, will you please help me this time?"
"Get lost"
"If you change your mind please help me with this corrupt offical."

The leveling and stats along with loot system is gone so combat is pointless other than to reach the next door where you can meet another npc with a tedious request much like the above.

The combat is just watered down gears with enemies following two forms of ai. Walk at you, and bob up and down behind cover. Throw in most of the enemies look alike while the environments are the exact same cargo crates thrown around a recoloured backdrop and there is no thrill in combat.

The story is painfully shallow. Shepard recruits team, Shepard goes on suicide mission with team, loyal members survive. Perhaps most of it was left to the loyalty missions but each one is entirely pointless to the plot while any action you take has zero consequences. In the original Mass Effect when you recieved a loyalty mission it was because you took the time to talk to the characters and learn their backstory. Here that has been cut out, instead you can ignore them completely and still get their mission. You don't even have to talk to them to find out they have a mission because your yeoman will list off every character willing to spill their life secrets to someone they had a single conversation.

The exploration though annoying in ME has been replaced by probing, basically going over a planet with a metal detector. At first tedious this quickly reveals itself to be padding because if you want upgrades you need resources. If you need resources you have to probe. Sure you can find 500 platinum in a case every so often but that won't mean jack when you need 50,000 for a med bay upgrade. So what is the term normally used for repetitive activies with no alternative and no entertainment? Got 100,000 Iridium but have no credits to buy anything at a shop? Too bad that Iridium is just going to follow you around because there are no foundries looking to buy.

In a true sign this game was designed for those who wouldn't care for it, the difficulty is based around normal. On a scale of casual, normal, verteran, hardcore and insanity balancing the game to normal means anyone who ventures past the modes designed for children will find their characters gimped. Half the abilites become useless and the other half become spam, simplifing the combat and rpg elements further. The Vanguard a class defined by its ability to charge through enemies like a freight train is forced behind crates because charge will only knock an enemy over and let the rest of them shoot at you, point blank (this is assuming charge doesn't lock up on an ankle high crate just in front of them or send them out of the map forcing you to load because this game is glitchy too). The adept who is meant to finish battles without firing a shot must finish battles without firing a power because almost all powers don't work on enemies with shields or armour and everyone has shields AND armour on insane. Sure you can chain powers together to deal more damage but sticking your head out to fire a power then rushing to get the second in time before your screen fills with red jam is just pointless when you could fire warp twice to do the same job. The result? I hope you like using warp because that's the only power that works. I'd go on but there are too many classes and trust me, they are all dull as dishwater on harder modes.

The only use I see people getting out of this game is a dating sim though that is poorly done as Shepard will turn a dialogue option as simple as, "can I help?" into, "let me help you into something more comfortable." this makes it hard to actually act friendly to any crew members without Shepard trying to cheat on your love interest while romancing the LI is as simple as skipping through meaningless blather while agreeing with everything they say.

Funnily enough those terrible romantic conversations are the only time Shepard actually knows how to talk. The rest of the time Bioware thought talking meant, "What's the problem?", "Why did they act this way?", "How did you respond?", "Where were you in the night in question?" and other questions that make Shepard come off as an interrogater to the homeless man down the street.

The rest of the problems such as the hacking minigame, the empty environments and the weapons that all feel the same have all been criticised in detail by others and everything else would be spoileriffic. So if you do feel like buying this game despite it being a poor attempt to appeal to two markets at once just remember to strike the giant enemy crab in its weak point for massive damage. You'll know when you see it.


Personally I like ME2 a lot more than I did 1. If you want to compare them to other RPGs the story for both is extremely shallow and the choices have almost no impact on the game either way. So really I hardly consider those even worth talking about as far as the game goes. I thought the hacking minigames were a lot better than what they did on the first one.

As for warp being the only power that works ? You clearly didn't play this on harder difficulties yourself and if you did you weren't good at it because my first character was an Engineer, have never played on any other difficulty other than insanity, and every single one of my skills is often quite critical to my success. To be honest the only time I have one of my teammates use warp over another skill is when fighting vorcha. I've also made an adept and a vanguard both on insanity and both without a single useless skill in their skillset.
 

Quad08

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How is this a review? All you do is point out things you didn't like!

There is no proper introduction for the game, no talk about the cast/characters, no description on the kind of game, etc.

You just jump in and start complaining.

It seems the only people who will understand right off the bat what you're talking about are people who have played the first Mass Effect, or are interested in the second game.

Next time you wish to rant about a game, just use the Gaming Discussion page
 

high_castle

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Apr 15, 2009
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I agree with the OP. For traditional RP fans, ME2 is a disappointment. It's a much shallower experience aimed at the Halo and Gears crowd, not those of us who've stuck with BioWare since the Baldur's Gate days. What bugged me most about this game, as I've said before, was the lack of any emotional connection. Characters won't talk to you until you complete their loyalty quests, but those quests don't even become available until midway through the game, at which point I'm sick of getting the cold shoulder from them. And why should Garrus and Tali need loyalty quests to begin with? Shouldn't they be loyal after the events of the first game? *sigh*

I liked Dragon Age where characters converse with you all the time, voicing their opinions both to the PC and amongst themselves. It made them seem more realistic. And you gain their approval gradually, not with one big action that actually takes time away from your real mission. The whole ME2 system felt superficial and fake.

And as far as the storyline goes...I'm sorry, but it lost its mystique for me. The story in ME1, especially when you get to Virmire and then Ilos and find out the truth about the Reapers, was very emotionally engaging and very surprising. But the "twists" in ME2 were advertised early, and I never had the sense of wonder I had in the first game. The final mission was insultingly easy to predict as far as who would live and who would die. It lacked the sudden, out-of-left-field surprises of the first game's deaths.

After the way ME2 was handled, I doubt very much I'll be getting ME3.
 

SomeBoredGuy

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Nov 18, 2009
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Wow. I'm guessing the straight dump into the complaints without any acknowledgments of what they did right and how they could fix what they did wrong, but you definitely seem to have missed the point of that style. Remember that the purpose of criticism is so that things can improve and evolve. Mass Effect 2 improved and evolved on the complaints about Mass Effect 1, but if you want BioWare to follow your advice and improve again, then at least put it in a way that would allow someone to understand why you didn't like it and what they actually did right.

Oh and @ More Fun To Compute, I'm not saying you should discount this guy's opinion entirely since he does at least have one valid point to do with the mining (except for the medi-bay part which is bullcrap), trust me when I say that this game is definitely worth way more than £5 and despite any complaints is still more worth the full £35-£40 than most other games out there.