Mass Effect 2 was NOT "dumbed-down"

[MiracleOfSound]

I just thought they were both awesome in their own ways.

 

[Diablo2000]

The Mako was cut in favor of Planet Scanning. Again, lack of gameplay variety.

Again, this does not equate to dumbing-down.

Yes, because Planet Scanning is after all a bit less user friendly then say... getting a car and shoot stuff.
The Mako was shit though.

 

[Eldarion]

Choosing what mods I wanted for my gear did allow for a greater variety of play styles

This one I can agree with, to an extent. There were a limited number of slots for armor/weapon mods, and a lot of different mod types to put in them, so choosing which mods to use was a true choice with actual depth. It's just a shame that the mods didn't make enough difference to be worth agonizing over.

Well, I felt that there was quite a bit of differences... I.e. if I'm modding my sniper rifle, I can load it up with scram rails to let me one-shot most enemies but also greatly reducing my refire rate due to heat management, or instead use heat sinks so I can fire much more rapidly? (Or just use the aforementioned HE ammo for one shot per overheat blasts that can send multiple enemies flying if you do it right)... I agonized over stuff like this plenty

Hmm, you're the second person who's mentioned sniping. I never played ME1 as a sniper (I just couldn't buy the idea that my War Hero Shepard couldn't shoot straight to save his life) so maybe there is more depth for that character type.

For the record, I usually play ME1 as a Vanguard or Sentinel. I've also played once as a Soldier and once as an Adept. Never finished an Engineer or Infiltrator playthrough.

The thing is though, for someone used to sniper rifles in other games Shepard is shooting strait. It just took a bit of skill to land the shot every time because of the rifle sway.

The weapon mods mattered a whole lot as well, like the other guy said. Go full rail extenders, you get a rifle capable of downing most foes in one shot but it instantly overheated so if an krogen or something decided to rush into close range you needed your teammates more. Could do heat sinks to fire more often, you'd still kill most things in one headshot and have more room to react to sudden changes in the battlefield but bigger foes like the walking tanks or Juggernauts would take more time to bring down. I could go on, the weapon mods all had a different impact on your rifle, it allowed you to adjust your play-style.

I remember that mission where you had to take out the 4 geth bases in the Mako. I had a max rail extender rifle. Parked on a mountain just close enough to be able to see it and sniped down every foe. Landing headshots from such a huge distance was bliss.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

My biggest problems with ME2 weren't with the streamlining of the RPG elements. My biggest problems had to do with the fact that they removed one of my favorite parts, namely the driving, yes you heard me, I liked the driving sections, and replaced it with something that was dull, tedious, and fucking boring! Also the arbitrary addition of an ammo system made absolutely no sense what-so-ever and was infinity more frustrating than having to wait for your gun to cool down because whenever you ran out of ammo (heat sinks) your gun became completely fucking useless.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

The Mako was cut in favor of Planet Scanning. Again, lack of gameplay variety.

Again, this does not equate to dumbing-down.

Yes, because Planet Scanning is after all a bit less user friendly then say... getting a car and shoot stuff.

sarcasm+internet=confusion

Anyway, as I said, I fail to see what this has to do with depth and the dumbing-down of the series. I feel the urge to define "dumbing-down". I'd have thought it a self-explanatory term, but just in case...
dumbed-down (as defined by the dictionary of Guy Jackson):
1) Requiring less intelligence. In particular, when discussing gameplay:
1a) by having fewer intelligent choices to make ("intelligent" choices being ones that actually have depth) or
1b) by having choices that require less intelligence to make, either by reducing the difficulty of the choice or by introducing player aids that make the best choice easier to determine, or both.

 

[octafish]

A massive fucking snip but there was a lot of text there...

Hear, hear.

In particular the environments were a lot more predictable in 2, in 1 there were occasions when you could be ambushed and you wouldn't see it coming, in 2 it was generally corridor, corridor, corridor, big room with lots of waist high crates, corridor.

I liked having an inventory even if the different guns were as varied as Borderlands, it needed cleaning up and refining, not deleting. I also liked having omni-gel to overide locks when I couldn't be arsed with the minigames. Comes in very handy with repeat playthoughs.

I really didn't like the "we have no armour, look at our boobs" character designs, seemed like blatant pandering to me, and broke a lot of immersion. I also want to customise my companions equipment damn it.

Also, while they could be annoying, I really liked the lift/airlock animations to cover the loading screens, it was a great way of keeping me in the game and fleshing out the characters. Much better than the loading screens (which have a fixed load time on PC if you don't mod the game).

Combat wise it isn't too bad, but I miss crouch, particularly for the infiltraitor, except they aren't much fun anymore as you have pointed out. Also clips suck. The overheat mechanic was much better than the clip system. I also prefered having some abilities and the different cool downs.

Yeah, I've played through ME to completion about 6 times, (although the first visit to the citadel is a drag, as is Taris in KoTOR), but I can't bring myself to play ME2 again.

 

[Zakarath]

Hmm, you're the second person who's mentioned sniping. I never played ME1 as a sniper (I just couldn't buy the idea that my War Hero Shepard couldn't shoot straight to save his life) so maybe there is more depth for that character type.

For the record, I usually play ME1 as a Vanguard or Sentinel. I've also played once as a Soldier and once as an Adept. Never finished an Engineer or Infiltrator playthrough.

Yeah... It's easy to get turned off of sniping by how badly the beginning rifles sway, but once you get one of the high-grade rifles with a good accuracy rating, that issue largely goes away. (Why I previously mentioned selling everything I had until I could buy a HMWSR)

It even becomes not especially hard to no-scope enemies at close to mid range, with an accuracy mod.

Additionally, the assassination skill completely steadies the weapon for a single shot, but it has a long cooldown.

 

[uc.asc]

In ME1? I think you should re-read my post, as that's the exact opposite of what I said. I said there was no reason NOT to use all the skills at once.

You mean other than the long cooldown, right? That thing that stopped you from spamming them every ten seconds and could leave you totally fucked if you used them at the wrong time?

 

[Diablo2000]

The Mako was cut in favor of Planet Scanning. Again, lack of gameplay variety.

Again, this does not equate to dumbing-down.

Yes, because Planet Scanning is after all a bit less user friendly then say... getting a car and shoot stuff.

sarcasm+internet=confusion

Anyway, as I said, I fail to see what this has to do with depth and the dumbing-down of the series. I feel the urge to define "dumbing-down". I'd have thought it a self-explanatory term, but just in case...
dumbed-down (as defined by the dictionary of Guy Jackson):
1) Requiring less intelligence. In particular, when discussing gameplay:
1a) by having fewer intelligent choices to make ("intelligent" choices being ones that actually have depth) or
1b) by having choices that require less intelligence to make, either by reducing the difficulty of the choice or by introducing player aids that make the best choice easier to determine, or both.

I wasn't being sarcastic... I really think that getting a car and shooting things is more atrattive to the general audience than the boring mining thing...
And the Mako really was shit, it was almost impossiple to control that thing... But instead of making it right, no, there is the boring mining thing. And I guess in some bizarre way, the Planet Mining is less complicated than the Mako, even if only because of the broken physic and control...

 

[lullabykid]

I was a sentinel. My abillities mattered. Yes I spammed every move once it happened, I had to. Just like a soldier shoots his gun as much as he can. I basically became a handicapped shooter in ME2 who occasionally did some ability. I can agree on some of what was gone being better. The inventory in 1 was cluttered beyond belief. There was some worthwhile stripping needed done, but ME2 went far beyond what they should have. Maybe some classes fared better, but Sentinel is not one of them.

I was also a Sentinel in mass effect 2. Though I prefer a challenge it was just..... awful. Truly the abortion of the Mass Effect Classes. On that note, swear I can feel the DragonAge2esq shit storm that is going to hit the forums when mass effect 3 comes out.

 

[Frotality]

ME1's less meaningful but larger variety of choice gave it fifty-billion times more replayability than ME2's barely existent choice. ME1's item system was broken, but at least it existed, and flawed as it was gave you at least a SENSE of progression and variety; ME2 had a starter weapon, a second one that was universally better than the stater, and a specialist one universally better than either.

the exact same concept with the exact same results, but simplified to the extreme.

thats dumbing down. whether you think thats a good thing or not, and you are quite welcome to think so, is irrelevant; its the definition of dumbing down. stop feeling like you have to defend it. some things are overly complicated and should be dumbed downed, but the definition of 'overly complicated' seems to be quite different for shooter fans than RPG fans. ME1 didnt really fulfill the purpose of inventory, but ME2 didnt even try; it was like replacing an idiot with the mentally-deficient. all it did was change what kind of stupid there was without fixing any of it.

for me ME2 got old quick because of the extreme lack of variety of choice compared to ME1; it felt like a step backwards and i didnt enjoy it as much or as long. the problem with ME2's gameplay wasnt that it was stupified, but that it was dismembered and mutilated until it was little more than a head in a jar. no less intelligent, but as pointless as pinky fingers and appendixes are, id rather have them than have everything tangentially related to them deleted.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

The Mako was cut in favor of Planet Scanning. Again, lack of gameplay variety.

Again, this does not equate to dumbing-down.

Yes, because Planet Scanning is after all a bit less user friendly then say... getting a car and shoot stuff.

sarcasm+internet=confusion

Anyway, as I said, I fail to see what this has to do with depth and the dumbing-down of the series. I feel the urge to define "dumbing-down". I'd have thought it a self-explanatory term, but just in case...
dumbed-down (as defined by the dictionary of Guy Jackson):
1) Requiring less intelligence. In particular, when discussing gameplay:
1a) by having fewer intelligent choices to make ("intelligent" choices being ones that actually have depth) or
1b) by having choices that require less intelligence to make, either by reducing the difficulty of the choice or by introducing player aids that make the best choice easier to determine, or both.

I wasn't being sarcastic... I really think that getting a car and shooting things is more atrattive to the general audience than the boring mining thing...
And the Mako really was shit, it was almost impossiple to control that thing... But instead of making it right, no, there is the boring mining thing. And I guess in some bizarre way, the Planet Mining is less complicated than the Mako, even if only because of the broken physic and control...

Oh, my bad.
Anyway, I didn't like the planet scanning OR the Mako, but at least the former didn't take too long.

 

[uc.asc]

A massive fucking snip but there was a lot of text there...

more snip

Practically a list of (almost) all the changes I thought were bad. It's not like ME2 isn't a great game, but after playing ME1 I want more, and for many of the reasons listed ME2 just doesn't deliver that.

Since ME2 is the sequel there never will be more, which makes me sort of pissy.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

In ME1? I think you should re-read my post, as that's the exact opposite of what I said. I said there was no reason NOT to use all the skills at once.

You mean other than the long cooldown, right? That thing that stopped you from spamming them every ten seconds and could leave you totally fucked if you used them at the wrong time?

Nope. The independent cooldown timers were not a deterrent to spamming skills. In ME1, any skill that's available and not being used is a wasted resource (unlike ME2, which has a shared cooldown timer which, as I said, adds some depth to the gameplay). Have you ever played ME1 on Insanity? If not, you should. You will quickly learn the value of skill spamming.

 

[Leefank137]

Thank you for saying this. I've been interested in hearing the PC gamer perspective on this and I'm glad to hear that there is at least one that still enjoys the game. Bravo.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

ME1's less meaningful but larger variety of choice gave it fifty-billion times more replayability than ME2's barely existent choice. ME1's item system was broken, but at least it existed, and flawed as it was gave you at least a SENSE of progression and variety; ME2 had a starter weapon, a second one that was universally better than the stater, and a specialist one universally better than either.

the exact same concept with the exact same results, but simplified to the extreme.

thats dumbing down. whether you think thats a good thing or not, and you are quite welcome to think so, is irrelevant; its the definition of dumbing down.

No, it isn't. The key is in the name: dumbing down. That which requires less intelligence. Tell me how the "exact same concept with the exact same results" can require any less intelligence.

 

[Eldarion]

No, it isn't. The key is in the name: dumbing down. That which requires less intelligence. Tell me how the "exact same concept with the exact same results" can require any less intelligence.

Are you kidding? If you come to the same result you didn't have to think less?

So if the game auto aimed at the bad guys for you that would not require less thought than aiming at them yourself? They die either way right? Thats what your saying.

How is planet scanning not dumbed down compared to the mako? You had to fight in the mako, dodge rockets, shoot bad guys. Planet scanning needed no thought at all, you just scanned till it told you to stop.

 

[Ozzythecat]

I never really though that ME2 was "dumbed-down", because like the OP said a lot of the "choices" removed didn't make the game easier or any less "deep". I do however believe that the game was over-streamlined, like the complete lack of an inventory and a massive cut to the skill list and other things.

One of ME's biggest failings was the inventory in my opinion, mainly because everyone and their mothers cat dropped a million Fking guns and mods when they died to the point that I spent more time selling loot than doing mission. That doesn't mean the whole system should have been removed, I would have like it if they had reduced the amount of guns in the game but made them much more different. One thing I loved about ME2 was the variety and quantity that the Heavy Weapons had, I would like to have seen more and diverse regular weapons as well, because even though it was a minor choice I felt like I didn't have much choice for weapons in ME2. It also would have been nice to have not seen Mods removed also.

I'm hoping ME3 will have kind a middle ground between ME's "arbitrary" depth and ME2's "Streamlined Protocol".

That's my two cents

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

No, it isn't. The key is in the name: dumbing down. That which requires less intelligence. Tell me how the "exact same concept with the exact same results" can require any less intelligence.

Are you kidding? If you come to the same result you didn't have to think less?

So if the game auto aimed at the bad guys for you that would not require less thought than aiming at them yourself? They die either way right? Thats what your saying.

No, that's not what I'm saying, and I have no idea how you got from the inventory system to auto-aiming.

 

[Eldarion]

No, it isn't. The key is in the name: dumbing down. That which requires less intelligence. Tell me how the "exact same concept with the exact same results" can require any less intelligence.

Are you kidding? If you come to the same result you didn't have to think less?

So if the game auto aimed at the bad guys for you that would not require less thought than aiming at them yourself? They die either way right? Thats what your saying.

No, that's not what I'm saying, and have no idea how got from the inventory system to auto-aiming.

Avoiding the point then, fine.

You said-Tell me how the "exact same concept with the exact same results" can require any less intelligence.

So I used an example to explain why that is silly.