Mass Effect 3 being 'tweaked' for a larger market - EA.

[The_root_of_all_evil]

snip

There's a very good saying here that goes along the line of "if it ain't your coat, don't put it on"(rough translation).

I could respond by "The customer is always right", but I'll travel with your analogy at the moment.
If someone's taking my coat and changing it, I reserve the right to state that I don't want it changing, without being told that I can always get a new one. Especially if the coat I originally had was made of far better material.

EA (and others) have shown, time and time again, that by taking something to the mass-market that they are cutting parts that could be controversial, while adding elements that actively disappoint the people who made it a successful franchise.

Can you give me some examples of games that were made more palatable for the mass-market that didn't result in them being less fulfilling? Because there's an awful lot of franchises that have been ruined by caving into to mass market appeal.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic about this but in all honesty...I really don't like how that sounds.

I thought ME2 already did that and it worked (for the most part). ME was barely an RPG, ME2 was a straight up shooter (not necessarily a bad thing), how much more simple can you make Mass Effect? I have a bad feeling.

 

[Chadling]

I'm going to say it right now.

Bioware. You don't need EA. They're not good for you. Leave them before they turn you into a dead husk of your former selves.

Consider this an intervention.

 

[Caligulove]

Investor Conference

Keep that in mind, here. EA when it comes down to it is really just looking to get more interest in their company and showing the massive sales in both Mass Effect 2 and the projected success of the tweaks in Mass Effect 3 that are expected to make the game even better than it was previously.

I worked a lot of private catering jobs during my first few years at Uni- heard A LOT of conference speeches, especially the headlining addresses, meetings and conferences like this are to invigorate "The Money" to keep supporting them and to have confidence in their continued support/investment. Show them how awesome their future endeavors are going to be, pump them up. The people at this conference are less than likely to be gamers as you and I know as gamers. They just need assurance that EA is going to have a good year and "you're going to be very happy that you chose to invest in us- now would you consider investing more?" In the end, I don't think this would be considered "gamer news" but certainly news for the industry

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Geez, guys, I'm pretty sure Bioware already said it'll be more RPG-y than ME2. Chill.

Modern Warfare 2 was more RPG-y than ME2

RPG=/=Levelling up.
If you think that then you have a lot to learn.

Actually, that does make a RPG if properly implemented. Just look at the two schools in video games: WRPGs and JRPGs.
JRPGs generally put more emphasis on leveling, looting, and other things like that.
WRPGs generally put more emphasis on freedom in the game world while splicing in elements like leveling.

Both are RPGs.

 

[hazabaza1]

Geez, guys, I'm pretty sure Bioware already said it'll be more RPG-y than ME2. Chill.

Modern Warfare 2 was more RPG-y than ME2

RPG=/=Levelling up.
If you think that then you have a lot to learn.

Actually, that does make a RPG if properly implemented. Just look at the two schools in video games: WRPGs and JRPGs.
JRPGs generally put more emphasis on leveling, looting, and other things like that.
WRPGs generally put more emphasis on freedom in the game world while splicing in elements like leveling.

Both are RPGs.

Yeah, but there's generally elements other than just shooting in RPGs. In both the Mass Effect game and Persona 3 as a JRPG example (thanks for recommending that, by the way, it's awesome) there's things to do other than just advancing through the plot and killing stuff.

So yeah, I think that levelling can make an RPG, but doesn't necessarily create one.

 

[70R4N]

To the tards in charge: We dont want an interactive movie, or a multiplayer FPS. We want a strong shooter-RPG with a signature Bioware storyline. Like ME1, but better, because ME2 felt like an interactive movie with over the shoulder shooting sections thrown into it. Not that the shooting mechanics werent an improvement (Good God they were!)... its just that ME2 lost ME1's enormous sense of scope in a vast alien galaxy. At no stage in ME2 did I park my Mako and look up at an alien, hostile sky and think... FUUUUUCK: this is beautiful and I feel tiny and insignificant and OH FUCK Earth so small and precious and SHIT Saren and the Reapers are coming to wipe us the fuck out.

I mean, I generally agree with you, but, 2 things:

1. "We" don't matter at all. The 12-year old morons matter more, because there are more of them buying games than there are of us.
2. Personally, I DONT'T want "Bioware's signature storyline". Because, and I am in the minority about this, Bioware storylines are awful. They are good for video games, don't get me wrong - but that's like saying "fast for a turtle". Song of Ice and Fire is a good fantasy storyline. Solaris (by Lem) is a good science fiction storyline (OK, best of all time, but you get my point). I want something of similar quality from the medium, I don't want Bioware's cookie-cutter template-based writing to be considered good.

Of course, for that, we'd need writers of the quality of Stanislaw Lem and George Martin going into video game writing instead of book writing. And that just will not happen - because video game writing is rightfully recognized as the refuge of the losers. Because, as state above, the best they can muster in the past 10 years is Bioware's awful attempts.

Other than those 2 points, I agree with you in that it would be great if EA decided to pitch to us instead of to the masses. But they have no reason to. There aren't many of us.

You never did play Planescape Torment or Neverwinter Nights 2 Mask of the Betrayer did you? Bioware's stories may not be good, but they are hardly best in gaming. Otherwise I completely agree.

Planescape was not made in the past 10 years, and while I don't consider Mask of the Betrayer to be that good either - it wasn't even made by Bioware.

And more importantly - while Planescape is some of the best (but not the best, by any means) writing in video games - well, ok, compare it to the best examples of storytelling in other media. Simple truth is, there is NOTHING in video games that comes close to the story telling of Harry Potter, Song of Ice and Fire, Lord of the Rings, Dune, Watchmen, Solaris, Fahrenheit 451... There is also nothing that comes close to conveying or imposing the emotion and thought conveyed by Age of Mercy, Citizen Kane, Fight Club... you could give the argument that the medium is its infancy, and it would be entirely true (but it's not the only reason for video game writing sucking). But that doesn't change anything, really.

I was only pointing out that there is good writing in games. I agree that they will never (not soon anyway)reach the excellence of A Song of Ice and Fire (my favourite series) or Harry Potter (also awesome series) and all the others.

 

[Still Life]

Geez, guys, I'm pretty sure Bioware already said it'll be more RPG-y than ME2. Chill.

Modern Warfare 2 was more RPG-y than ME2

RPG=/=Levelling up.
If you think that then you have a lot to learn.

Actually, that does make a RPG if properly implemented. Just look at the two schools in video games: WRPGs and JRPGs.
JRPGs generally put more emphasis on leveling, looting, and other things like that.
WRPGs generally put more emphasis on freedom in the game world while splicing in elements like leveling.

Both are RPGs.

The problem I've found is that so much of the gaming community is split between what constitutes a genuine RPG 'experience'. I myself have a definition of RPG which is incongruous with that of many others, based upon the quality of the experience from a narrative standpoint, and how the gameplay complements the overall game design.

 

[Gibboniser]

And another one bites, another one bites, another one bits the dust.

 

[S3Cs4uN 8]

I hold a similar opinion i generally prefer my Rpg's to have a engrossing storyline/plot I also see hazabaza1's opinion that leveling does not make an rpg and i agree it's just that i was stating that to me ME2 was more like gears of war with a re-skin.

heres to hopeing ME3 doesnt bomb completely if all else fails at least i can reminisce about the good times in Mass Effect (elevator conversations, Legions idle anims) while i play Skyrim or GW2

 

[bob1052]

Probably is the reason for the delay. It reeks of the bean-counters getting in the way of the creatives. Killing the golden goose. Here's hoping they don't fuck everything up.

Bioware has already shown that short production cycles for them is anything but creative.

 

[Zay-el]

snip

That ain't exactly a spotless analogy, you know. A coat is a one-time purchase, as it exists, it is perpetual, until destroyed. By purchasing a single game, you do not, in any shape or form have the right to immediately own any future installments, you'll still have to go through working for the money, making the decision of buying it and doing so.

Also, the coat saying referred to taking the generalization upon yourself, not any gaming issue at hand.

I don't have anything to show you right now, more or less because I haven't got the patience and definitely not the time to go into such extensive research, although I'm pretty sure I could find you some. Bringing out something from a close-knit userbase to a supposed larger is a risky move, but not in any way impossible.

Though you'll have to take this with a grain of salt, as I for one always argue that even ME2 wasn't necessarily deserving of the term 'dumbed-down'. Similarly, this issue as well is opinionated, there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Still Life]

http://twitter.com/#!/truffle/status/66325265936171008

Here is a tweet from Christina Norman, gameplay designer for ME3.

Spoiler

"Let me make this simple: we are improving both the RPG and Shooter aspects of ME3"

Think the more passionate people on this forum should take a breath and wait it out.

 

[lapan]

What i'm more concerned about is the comments bioware made about Dragon Age and reviving characters if they still need them for the story.

I really hope they don't do that to Mass Effect 3, a huge part of ME2 would seem kinda pointless otherwise.

 

[Fanboy]

http://twitter.com/#!/truffle/status/66325265936171008

Here is a tweet from Christina Norman, gameplay designer for ME3.

Spoiler

"Let me make this simple: we are improving both the RPG and Shooter aspects of ME3"

Think the more passionate people on this forum should take a breath and wait it out.

"Let me make this simple" - Christina Norman

OH NO! They really are dumbing down the game!

 

[Still Life]

http://twitter.com/#!/truffle/status/66325265936171008

Here is a tweet from Christina Norman, gameplay designer for ME3.

Spoiler

"Let me make this simple: we are improving both the RPG and Shooter aspects of ME3"

Think the more passionate people on this forum should take a breath and wait it out.

"Let me make this simple" - Christina Norman

OH NO! They really are dumbing down the game!

Pretty much the gist of the 'fan' reaction

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

That ain't exactly a spotless analogy, you know. A coat is a one-time purchase, as it exists, it is perpetual, until destroyed. By purchasing a single game, you do not, in any shape or form have the right to immediately own any future installments, you'll still have to go through working for the money, making the decision of buying it and doing so.

It still pisses me off when they stop making that brand of coat though. And I let their customer complaints know. However, unlike retail, game manufacturers often don't care what the public says.

I don't have anything to show you right now, more or less because I haven't got the patience and definitely not the time to go into such extensive research, although I'm pretty sure I could find you some. Bringing out something from a close-knit userbase to a supposed larger is a risky move, but not in any way impossible.

Anytime you're ready, I've got a huge pile of "tweaks" that made something far worse.

Though you'll have to take this with a grain of salt, as I for one always argue that even ME2 wasn't necessarily deserving of the term 'dumbed-down'. Similarly, this issue as well is opinionated, there is no right or wrong answer.

I avoided saying "dumbed-down" for a reason; but can you think of anything in ME1/2 that you'd like "tweaked" so that fans of the series would enjoy it more?

Because it sounds like, from all the publicity, that they simply want to copy CoDs "Innovations".