Mass Effect 3 "Change The Ending" Petition (almost certainly spoilers)

[quiet_samurai]

I think a petition like this is so rude. Bioware spent a lot of time and effort on this series and the last game. Sure that doesn't mean everything is perfect in everyones eyes, but it's a damn good game.

Sure you can say you hate the ending, and you can say what if it had ending like this or I got to do this? But to start a petition like this is ignorant.

This is the end the writers and the developers decided on. You should respect that just as you would respect the ending of a book or movie, sure you might hate the end of a book or movie, but whats the point in signing an actual petition to change the ending?

The new ending would feel fake and forced, you are better off just pretending the game ended a different way using your imagination. Uhg!

This absolutely....... I have never seen a more spoiled, ungrateful, and entitled group of people then certain members in the gaming community.

I was also very bummed out by the ending as well too. After carrying the same character through three games, making choices and seeing them play out in later sequences was amazing, and then to have the ending I did was depressing, but not all stories have a happy ending for everyone. Which in itself made it seem more real.

Besides, Shepard DID end the reaper threat, Shepard DID save humanity and the other races fighting the war...... just not in the way everyone thought he would.

And I always had a feeling that in the stories conclusion Shepard was going to make the ultimate sacrifice..... I just did.

 

[quiet_samurai]

Guess what: BioWare have the right to do ANY ending they want. If they thought that a downer ending was the best way to end the series, then that's what they thought, and NO-ONE ELSE has ANY RIGHT to tell them to change it. No-one. Anywhere. Ever.

Fallacy. Creators indeed have the right of creation and domain over their works, however in any story told there is a Reader/Writer contract.

The Reader-Writer Contract
by Chawna Schroeder

Each time someone picks up a novel an unspoken contract is made between the reader and the author. The reader offers to suspend his disbelief, to give up his precious time, and to place his fragile trust in the hands of the authors.

But time, trust, and a suspension of disbelief are not free; a reader wants something in return. So what is it that a reader expects from the author?

- That the author will treat him as intelligent. We have brains and they do work. So don?t say everything or open every door. Hand us the keys and let us figure out how to unlock it ourselves.

- That the story will fulfill the conventions of the genre the novel claims to be. If it is a mystery, there better be a puzzle that needs solving.

- That the rules will not change and the author will play by the rules he sets up. If in the world created birds can swing but not fly, we better not see flying birds halfway through.

That in a similar way, the style of the first page will be the style of the whole story. Is the first scene a humorous incident? Then the author has promised humor throughout the whole.

- That an emotionally satisfying experience will be given. While great prose is appreciated, a great story is a must.

- That there?ll be good ending, a primarily source for an emotionally satisfying experience. A multitude of errors will be forgiven if a great ending is provided. And what qualifies as a great ending? The release of tension that come from the sense of rightness, the feeling that this is the way things should?had?to be, whether bittersweet or happily-ever-after.

- That the author will not deceive the reader. An author can mislead a character and therefore the reader, but the truth must be there and twists properly foreshadowed so that a reader can look back and say, ?Duh! Of course, that?s what had to happen. Why didn?t I see that coming??

That the flip-side of that will be true?all foreshadowing will be fulfilled. Or as is talked about in playwriting, if there?s a gun on the wall, it?d better be fired before the end of the act.

Bioware has not fulfilled their end of the contract, I am fully within my rights to be upset over this.

Yes, you do have the right to be upset about it. But that isn't the same as having the right to always get what you want out of a writers content. All writers are considered artists and have the rights to artistic liberties...... which means they can write about pretty much anything they damn well want to. Having a right based on your emotional reaction to the content of someone's artistic work is bulllshit,and if you really think I'm wrong run it by a lawyer or try to take in through the legal system. The document you quoted is not a legal document, let alone a civil rights document. So quit spouting out that it's your "right" to be satisfied...... it's not.

So yes you have the right to be angry or unsatisfied..... however no, you don't have the right to always get what you want out of a media's content. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Asita]

I think a petition like this is so rude. Bioware spent a lot of time and effort on this series and the last game. Sure that doesn't mean everything is perfect in everyones eyes, but it's a damn good game.

Sure you can say you hate the ending, and you can say what if it had ending like this or I got to do this? But to start a petition like this is ignorant.

This is the end the writers and the developers decided on. You should respect that just as you would respect the ending of a book or movie, sure you might hate the end of a book or movie, but whats the point in signing an actual petition to change the ending?

The new ending would feel fake and forced, you are better off just pretending the game ended a different way using your imagination. Uhg!

This absolutely....... I have never seen a more spoiled, ungrateful, and entitled group of people then certain members in the gaming community.

I was also very bummed out by the ending as well too. After carrying the same character through three games, making choices and seeing them play out in later sequences was amazing, and then to have the ending I did was depressing, but not all stories have a happy ending for everyone. Which in itself made it seem more real.

Besides, Shepard DID end the reaper threat, Shepard DID save humanity and the other races fighting the war...... just not in the way everyone thought he would.

And I always had a feeling that in the stories conclusion Shepard was going to make the ultimate sacrifice..... I just did.

The sadness isn't the problem most people are latching onto (in fact, I think at this point I've seen more people complain about a complete LACK of emotional reaction rather than a depressing one), it's the definitive lack of closure and catharsis that accompanied it. Assassin's Creed II had better sense of closure, and that game quite literally ended with a "WTF" moment (read: the protagonist literally said that in response to the final scene before the credits). Tragic endings can be and often are well recieved, the problem with ME3's ending isn't related to that, and whether they know it or not, people using that argument are invoking a Strawman fallacy relying on their lack of understanding of the opposing position. If you want to debate the 'change the ending position' you need to defend the idea that the ending was good writing, not the notion that 'tragic endings can be good' because nobody's arguing against the latter. Heck, one of the more commonly expressed opinions is that an epilogue - even just in the form of a text scroll - detailing the effect of your choices would have greatly improved the ending. Here are a few of the more oft-quoted articles describing the dissatisfaction:

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779

 

[sabercrusader]

Dear God people are really quick to bite aren't they? Most of us are not "demanding" a better ending, we are merely asking for a better ending. There is a clear difference between the two. If it was demanding, I would agree with the people saying it's just people thinking they're self-entitled, however, this is not the case. Asking for a new ending is not entitlement, just a plea for a better ending. Bioware has every right to say no to this, just as we have every right to ask them to change it. Not doing it could potentially be bad for the company in the long run, but that's their choice. Stop trying to make people who would like the ending changed seem like whiny brats, because that's simply just not true, plain and simple like that. We are only asking in a civil manner (most of us anyways) that they change the ending.

Quite honestly, I can deal with it if they just decided to add an epilogue to the endings, to explain how each is different, and to see what actually happens to the people we've spent so much time with.

By the way, I'm not going to get into an arguement about this. If I'm qouted by someone who disagrees, I may reply back if it's in a civil manner, otherwise, you're wasting your time. I, for one don't feel like wasting my time dealing with someone who can't respect another's opinion enough to refrain from insulting them.

 

[Suicidejim]

Bioware has the right to choose what ending(s) they decide to create, and consumers also have the right to gripe and complain and yes, even ask that the ending be changed. Bioware doesn't have to listen, obviously, but it's a give-and-take relationship. And I do think, to a degree, that if you pay the rather substantial sum of money most games cost, you have some degree of entitlement to be well entertained, and to at least get some closure on the matter.

If you're having sex with someone, and they decide to leave right before you climax, you're going to be pretty pissed, regardless of the fact that said person didn't have to have sex with you in the first place. You'll probably also think twice before you have sex with them again. Weird analogy to bring up, I know, but there you go.

Now, I've only played the first Mass Effect, and don't really have any intention of playing ME2 or 3, so I don't really have a great deal of emotional investment in the series, but reading through some of the complaints, it's understandable that fans are annoyed.

 

[GraveeKing]

I hate to sound hipster but....
Minecraft released games with terrible endings first BEFORE it was cool...

But really, people need to get over downer endings, it's happened before in games loads of times. I know plenty of brilliant games where your character and everyone he loves dies and boom the End!

If you want a happily ever after story go watch a movie or something, a video-game is about the playing bit - if you rushed to the end in getting some super amazing ending, then really it's your own fault when you're disappointed for expecting so much.
Really that's all it comes down to - IT IS A GAME.
You sad? Return the game - exchange it for something else and be happy, there are plenty of other games out there with different endings.

 

[Turing '88]

So yea, there's expressing discontent, and then there's spitting in the face of the developers. Even though most nay-sayers agree that 99% of the series was absolute gold. Bioware doesn't deserve this level of bullshit. No developer does.

Wow, sorry are you getting confused? When did I become one of the very very few people doing that? You wanna ***** about people unfairly adjusting the metacritic score (for example), I will be on your side, that doesn't change the facts that firstly I am going to tell Bioware I would like them to change the ending, and secondly I am not going to buy another Bioware game if they don't. That's what 99% of petitioners have done, that's the bit you can't argue with.

I like people like you, you sound so reasonable in your arguments that I'd like to think you'll actually read this. The thing you need to realise is not everyone who isn't you is the same person. You remind me of those people who basically think all bioware fans are this:
http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/711 Not realisiing out of Biowares several million buyers there are distinct groups of fans with differing opinions.

On artistic grounds, not a single one of you has the right to demand a rewrite. You can not like it all you want, you're entitled to that much. Everyone is. Hell even people who never played it can say the ending sucks (for what little that's worth).

Agree, I've said as much myself.

But what gives you the right to say "do it again, and make a cliche good/bad/neutral ending this time"? And do NOT say because you paid for it. It is because you already paid for it that your opinion is nullified. At least until the next game comes out, which you all will buy anyway despite this holocaust of the Mass Effect trilogy.

Again you're wrong. We have every right to ask for whatever we want. I can say "Bioware make a new ending except this time I want Shepard to throw cake at all the reapers". Bioware have to decide to agree or disagree, please listen to the next bit though, because I feel like you're ignoring it on purpose... They would much rather know why people are pissed, and what they can do about it, than not know. Yes?

This is probably the last I'm going to say on the subject, as repeating myself is getting boring and this has been going on wayyy longer than it's worth. To all who think Bioware should rewrite the ending just to appease you:

All I've done so far besides play devil's advocate, is defend a developer's right to be creative on their own terms, without letting your dollar be the primary deciding factor in any/all design decisions of the game. Even if it means making a mistake. But this mob mentallity you all have is the exact reason why companies like Activision are too afraid to stray from the Call of Duty formula. This outrage is why investors won't let developers take any risks. This bullshit is what's holding the medium back. So thank you for a whole lot of nothing, hope your DLC ending is worth it.

What. a. load. of. shit. Most people respect Bioware's right to make whatever ending they like, what about that don't you get? Activison are an amazing example, they know a lot of people (myself included) don't buy their games because of their DRM. They make a concious decicion to still make games with heavy DRM, that's their choice. If bioware decide not to change the ending that too is their choice. It's the same fucking thing!!

EDIT: I'll also add, these are all businesses; complaints mean fuck all to these companies really, it's sales that matter. Unless you are advocating supporting games we don't like, "this bullshit" only holds back things that are unpopular.

 

[Turing '88]

If you're having sex with someone, and they decide to leave right before you climax, you're going to be pretty pissed, regardless of the fact that said person didn't have to have sex with you in the first place. You'll probably also think twice before you have sex with them again. Weird analogy to bring up, I know, but there you go.

Got to say this is a pretty apt analogy, you have no right to force that person to do what you want, but you have every right to be annoyed, tell them so, and change your future habits. I like it!

I hate to sound hipster but...
-snip-

I like how you've read absolutely nothing on the subject but still have an opinion.... I would never dare enter a conversation without knowing the basics of both sides of the argument, but to each his own!

 

[TsunamiWombat]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349

atghunter wrote...

Posted this yesterday, I'll repost here. Hope it helps to see what's on the other side of the mirror atm.

I don't think Bioware is out of touch with their customers though I agree with an earlier poster that right now they are assessing their options. Nor do I think that everyone speaking up for them at the moment is a "yes man" or shill. That said:

I don't for a moment think there are any other endings, this was a hallucination, etc. Bioware/EA is letting these speculations go on for two reasons. First, they are letting people vent. Secondly, they are weighing options.

Years ago, I worked for a PR damage control team and everything right now is going by the book. First, re-affirm and ignore (also known as doubling down), then try and define the detractors in the mainstream with things like "this is all a big mistunderstand", etc. while remaining civil in the hopes the detractors go rabid. Meanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets or "shock troops" while protecting the corporate core. Next, offer something distracting (notice SWTOR is free this upcoming weekend) known as the "faux olive branch"/ask the angry people to explain their concerns (without agreeing to commit to a compromise), buy more add time (definitely going on right now), and hope it dies down. If the pressure is still on, determine the economic viability of 1) ignoring the outcry and banking on the fickle nature of consumers to get over it or 2) determining if we can make money off of fixing it.

If it is any consolation, the decision whether or not there is a fix DLC, etc, won't be made by the writers so illusions to things they wanted to convey don't matter much atm (to wit: the leads comments yesterday). I suspect he's been called in and politely told by the PR guys to not do that again. This is now a corporate problem, not an artistic struggle with fans. Somewhere in the EA bunker, attorneys, PR guys, writers and brass are sharing numbers b/c in the end this will come down to hard currency.

As one who despises the endings, I'm hoping the suits tell the visionaries that the customers are loud enough and numerous enough to swollow their pride and get them out of this storm. For those that love them, I readily accept your position and respectfully disagree.

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,

First, I?m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks.

A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:

First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen arefaux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message. There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game."

You will know that there?s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from ?we?re listening? to ?we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.? It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it?s knows as ?Exposing Your Throat? btw). At present, you?ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will ?explain? the endings. That?s not a give, that?s a delay tactic.

But here?s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It?s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the ?bunker strategy? was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don?t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.

Two more quick points and I?ll close. First, the Child?s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from ?you?re spoiled selfish haters? to ?sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.? Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying ?maybe the game has problem but its still art? from the precedent message ?best game ever.? That won?t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when ?art? hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You?ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA?s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.

Second, don?t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don?t care. That?s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I?d be reaching for a cigarette.

Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I?ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.

I?m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue. I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one. Wilhelm Stekel

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,

Really flattered with the responses. Respectful regards and thanks to all. Been spending a few minutes reading over Mr. Hudson?s response. Here's my PR insider perspective. Hope it helps a bit.

First, let?s simply look at strategy over content. 1) They definitely released this on a Friday evening to bury it in the news cycle (because it does acknowledge in passing there are unhappy customers, but more next paragraph). Btw, kudos to those who pointed that out earlier in the thread-Solid catch. 2) Several of the ?anti-ending? articles (most notably Forbes) are now creeping into front page searches for ?Mass Effect 3? instead of ?Mass Effect 3 endings? and they are hoping this release will knock those stories to page 2. 3) They are hoping to deflect some of the current silence anger by combining this message with this weekend?s faux olive branches (discussed earlier).

All in all, the message release strategy is nothing too interesting at this point.

The content, however, is interesting. Most of the statement is doublespeak meant to let you see whatever you want as to as to the direction this thing is heading. Mr. Hudson then clearly tries to give validity to the greatness of the game by citing a couple news sources in the hopes of getting those stories more hits and onto search page one (nicely played EA PR), but the main thing is a clear acknowledgement that Houston has a problem with ?some? fans. Mind you, he uses the term ?some? and ?most passionate fans? to try and minimalize the level of the outcry, but the disenfranchised fan base has reached the level of acknowledgement. That is important. Does it mean those disenfranchised fans have won? Not by a long shot. But Mr. Hudson?s statement was written (or at least approved by someone running damage control). And ultimately any time you have to acknowledge a problem with your product or customers, you have issues.

Does he continue on holding his own line that they intended ?bittersweet? endings? Yes. Is the comment that you?ll see more of Commander Shepard an illusion to an ?ending? DLC? Not certain but probably not at the moment. Does he utilize the ?we?re listening to feedback but not promising we?ll do anything? line used on the boards yesterday? Sure.

It is clear most of his statement is insubstantial and leaves tons of room for spin either way down the road. Whether it gets used or not, management is trying to find some wiggle room in case they have to change course.

Last bit. A warning. PR guys know that right now many people?s emotions are on edge and often use a tactic called ?Sound and Fury? (Shakespearean reference see Macbeth) to see if it gets people raging. It helps that strategy that people are looking at anything coming out of Bioware to detect wind changes. That said, I was reading through the thread burning with Mr. Hudson?s statement (though to be fair it is a Bioware/EA statement) and it seems for the most part folks are being passionate, but civil. EA PR will probably chalk up that aspect of this release as a failedruse de guerre (trick of war).

Stay civil, stay passionate, and stay vocal no matter which side you take. For myself, I?ll shamelessly

Hold the Line

 

[Omnific One]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JspE9ctseIU#!

Embedding isn't working.

 

[JJMUG]

I like the recurring theme in a lot of this thread that you're allowed to not like the ending, but don't you dare ask Bioware to change it. Why the fuck can't we ask Bioware to change it? If people were forcing Bioware to change their game, via threats of violence or whatever, I'd say that's out of order.

What's actually happening however is people are letting Bioware know we would rather they rewrote the ending, and it's up to Bioware to decide for themselves if they do that. They might come back and say "Nope, this is our story, this is how we wanted to end it. Deal with it bitches.", which they are well within their rights to do; I'm well within my rights to *****, moan and never buy another Bioware product.

You pretty much answered your own question.

It is their story, you have no say in how it is written. That is how it should be. If you don't like it, don't buy it from them anymore. That is the only thing you are entitled to do as a consumer. Asking for anything above and beyond that is just selfish whining.

That is not how it works, not even close. Bioware exists because we as consumers allow them to exist. If we as consumers find a product to be sub-par we are allowed to complain, we are allowed to demand change. If the demands of the consumer are not met the company loses money, and if enough is lost the company will no longer exist. I would also read the several articles on Forbes to better understand why Bioware is at fault and why they need to fix it. Instead of deflecting the complaints, and other standard PR tactics.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/15/upset-mass-effect-fans-entitled-gamers-or-responsible-consumers/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-and-the-pernicious-myth-of-gamer-entitlement/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/12/how-bioware-could-find-redemption-using-mass-effect-3/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/13/why-fan-service-is-good-business/

What's funny is I actually agree with Taveras who was quoted in the first article.

On artistic grounds, not a single one of you has the right to demand a rewrite. You can not like it all you want, you're entitled to that much. Everyone is. Hell even people who never played it can say the ending sucks (for what little that's worth). But what gives you the right to say "do it again, and make a cliche good/bad/neutral ending this time"? And do NOT say because you paid for it. It is because you already paid for it that your opinion is nullified. At least until the next game comes out, which you all will buy anyway despite this holocaust of the Mass Effect trilogy.


This is probably the last I'm going to say on the subject, as repeating myself is getting boring and this has been going on wayyy longer than it's worth. To all who think Bioware should rewrite the ending just to appease you:

All I've done so far besides play devil's advocate, is defend a developer's right to be creative on their own terms, without letting your dollar be the primary deciding factor in any/all design decisions of the game. Even if it means making a mistake. But this mob mentallity you all have is the exact reason why companies like Activision are too afraid to stray from the Call of Duty formula. This outrage is why investors won't let developers take any risks. This bullshit is what's holding the medium back. So thank you for a whole lot of nothing, hope your DLC ending is worth it.

Really now, Broken Steel and Sherlock Holmes you like to say hello. I guess Bioware should not have fixed the most recent book either.