Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

[Deathninja19]

Meh not to me, I mean if the Reapers where trying to save lives why start an invasion using laserbeams when the Collectors where using mainly non-violent means like those stasis bugs, but again I have nothing against those who think the ending was good.

They used collector swarms as well in Mass Effect 3 it is mentioned at least once, and I think the reason they were not used more widely was because Shepherd had developed a defense against them more or less in ME2, plus the destruction of the Collector base (or it being in Cerberus hands) means that their supplies were limited I think.

But that was one method surely the godly Reapers could come up with a million non-violent methods.

All I'm saying is that for me the Reapers would have made much more sense if they were culturally stunted and so harvested other races technology and culture because they lacked the ability to innovate and just used creatures as biomatter to replenish losses. But instead they seemed like a race that watched a rerun of the new Battlestar Galactica and got it in to their heads that all AI was evil despite them being one step away from being true AI themselves. It all seems like Bioware wrote themselves in to a corner and tried to make everything fit in to a simplistic neat little package when in fact they should have just left the Reapers overall plan in the dark.

 

[eventhorizon525]

A good ending leaves you with a feeling of accomplishment, justifying all the time you spent playing to get there. That doesn't mean it has to be happy, sad, dark, simple, whatever. It just means the people have to feel like it was worth it. A very large number of people (I would hesitate a majority of people on forums at least), did not get this from the game. And it wasn't just the initial reaction; people have been angry about this ending since the leaked script.

Personally, some of the ideas behind the ending sound really good and are thought provoking. But the actual execution is so poor that anytime I try to think about it, I get a bitter taste in my mouth. Furthermore, how all the ending cinematic are nearly the exact same save for the color change, and how some previous decisions were basically just glossed over does not support Bioware's decision for the ending particularly well.

The impression I got from this all, was rather then trying to end the story in a way that would at least feel satisfactory, they setup that any ending prepares the world/IP to be reset. They don't have to worry about continuity as much (since all the races were split up, and the time it would take to reconnect everyone there would be a LOT of changes), and thus set the stage for another set of games that benefits from the IP but doesn't have to give even the smallest nod to how this trilogy resolved, or keep the technology remotely the same.

Business wise, this makes perfect sense, and I can't fault them there. But that doesn't change the fact the ending leaves a bitter taste.

 

[Erttheking]

Yeah, Just Turians and Krogan could slow them down, imagine what the combined forces of Humans, Asari, Salarian, Turian, Volus, Hanar, Elcor, Quarians, Geth and Krogan can do? Also, there's a difference between "blowing up a mass relay that is strategically important to the Reapers" and "destroy all of them just because"

It wasn't just because, the say plainly that you have to use the mass relays to propagate the energy through out the entire galaxy. The side effect of this is that the relays are destroyed, which along with the citadel blowing up effectively 'ends' the reapers influence on the technological development of the galactic races.

Which brings me to the root of my problem. Why did it have to destroy the relays? Why couldn't it be enough to kill the Reapers but not destroy the Relays? Why did we have to shoehorn that in? Galactic civilization is destroyed, countless people are stranded away from the rest of their species, the lack of travel and communication will lead to economic collapse, many people starving because they can't get the levo or dextro food that they need because of their location, wars may break out, the Krogan in the galaxy are stuck on the planets that they're on and the Genophage has been cured, so they're going to run out of space REAL fast, and god knows where all the people in orbit above Earth are supposed to go or what they'll eat. Also, the Geth get killed, EDI is dead, I went to the trouble of getting the Quarian homeworld back and now they'll never get to see it again, and Garrus and Tali will probably starve on that planet that they're on.

This ending is chock full of Fridge Horror, this is why I hate it so much, especially when we were promised a definitive happy ending. This is the best ending the game has to offer and it is not happy.

 

[Deathninja19]

Meh not to me, I mean if the Reapers where trying to save lives why start an invasion using laserbeams when the Collectors where using mainly non-violent means like those stasis bugs, but again I have nothing against those who think the ending was good.

Using stasis bugs doesn't remove the advanced civilizations from the galaxy and thus does not prevent them from making synthetics that would eventually destroy all organic life.

Um yeah it would because all of that civilisation would be in your hands/ships and then they could simply glass the planet clearing all the technology and then reseeding the planet for future life. What I just described is exactly what the Reapers are doing except the Mass Effect Reapers are killing billions needlesly.

I mean isn't that what happened to the Protheans otherwise why are there still Prothean relics and ruins around? If the Reapers destroy and collect there would be no Prothean anything left.

 

[theonecookie]

The problem presented by the Catalyst wasn't the only problem within the series, it was only an explanation for why The Reapers existed.

You're right, it wasn't the only problem within the series, or the most important. So why was it framed as the final, most important decision?

Because solving that problem would lead to a method of solving the other problems.

The galaxy was like a giant clump of strings all tangled together, each string represents a different problem, and while no one string is really more important then the other, there is always inevitable one string in the ball if you pull could cause the others to unravel also.

Being able to stop the reapers allowed for the ability to end galactic civilizations dependance on them and their technology, another one of the problems however is that civilization as it was was so dependent on it that it was impossible to go back.

Civilization had to be destroyed one more time to allow for races to go down thier own path.

I find it extremely funny that you're the only one in this thread that is defending the ending. No one else is. So, here are my thoughts:

1. You're either the most intelligent person that exists on earth, being able to see the deeper meaning of the ending, and see what everyone else can't, that the "deus ex machina" is actually meaningful and insightful.

or 2. You're a bioware fanboy

or finally, 3. You're an idiot.

Excuse me but I'm in here as well thank you.

You can't call it deus ex machina since you spent the entire game gathering fleets to protect this 'weapon' and gathering resources and people to build it. The entire game no one seems to understand what it is or what it will do. It does seem like a weapon (because it is designed to output a lot of energy) but no one is really sure what it is. Its a Plot twist not a Deus Ex Machina. Also there was foreshadowing with regards to what happens so much so that when I got to the end I was like 'oh no you didn't I knew you would and you did! You bastards'

I can personally say I'm not a Bioware fanboy, I was very unhappy with what happened with dragon age 2, so much I didn't bother finishing it.

3 I don't think he is an idiot, I think he is one of the few people who is sufficiently versed enough in story telling and who are willing to resist the knee jerk reaction to such a surprising end with no obvious 'good ending'.

Good fucking grief how can you still be defending this shit , Ok I'll give you something this could be a good ending one two conditions

1: It makes sense in the story. Which it doesn't at this point it come straight outta left field as a magic magufin to save the day with no explanation as to how it works in straight up fantasy this wouldn't be a problem its just magic but this a sci-fi with pages of explanation in how equipment and tech works

2: Its put some where that's not mass effect. the ending its self just doesn't fit with mass effect it changes gear right at the last second to asking deep questions about peoples interaction with technology and how it will destroy them, its more deus ex than mass effect in in essence its some thing like the expendables suddenly switching to blade runner in the last five minuets it clashes so hard

And don't even get me started on the plot holes there big enough to make the titanic blush

So yeah if we fix the plot holes re-wright the story to match the ending we have a good ending right now we have a mess

and you say you know how to tell a story

All three games dealt with Organics vs Synthetics, it wasn't new I don't know why everyone keeps acting like it is. Also Deus Ex dealt with the moral implications of transhumanism not artificial life. Though there are some areas of overlap between the two.

Yeah and what have we learned from the times that the game has dealt with it.We learned that organics and inorganics can get along it just needs a bit of work edi legion and the geth prove it just needs a bit of work

the ending just hammers home the point that they can never coexist which is the complete opposite of what the story so far has told again reinforcing the point that this ending belongs somewhere else

 

[synobal]

Yeah, Just Turians and Krogan could slow them down, imagine what the combined forces of Humans, Asari, Salarian, Turian, Volus, Hanar, Elcor, Quarians, Geth and Krogan can do? Also, there's a difference between "blowing up a mass relay that is strategically important to the Reapers" and "destroy all of them just because"

It wasn't just because, the say plainly that you have to use the mass relays to propagate the energy through out the entire galaxy. The side effect of this is that the relays are destroyed, which along with the citadel blowing up effectively 'ends' the reapers influence on the technological development of the galactic races.

Which brings me to the root of my problem. Why did it have to destroy the relays? Why couldn't it be enough to kill the Reapers but not destroy the Relays? Why did we have to shoehorn that in? Galactic civilization is destroyed, countless people are stranded away from the rest of their species, the lack of travel and communication will lead to economic collapse, many people starving because they can't get the levo or dextro food that they need because of their location, wars may break out, the Krogan in the galaxy are stuck on the planets that they're on and the Genophage has been cured, so they're going to run out of space REAL fast, and god knows where all the people in orbit above Earth are supposed to go or what they'll eat. Also, the Geth get killed, EDI is dead, I went to the trouble of getting the Quarian homeworld back and now they'll never get to see it again, and Garrus and Tali will probably starve on that planet that they're on.

This ending is chock full of Fridge Horror, this is why I hate it so much, especially when we were promised a definitive happy ending. This is the best ending the game has to offer and it is not happy.

You assume the cut scene was done in real time. There is evidence it wasn't. After all your squad mates were evacuated from the ground and were on the Normandy, trying to outrun the energy wave. That says to me that there was a significant time laps between shepherds choice and the weapon actually going off, so much so that the fleets likely fled the system or at least portions of it did.

Also with the Normandy crashing you don't really know how bad it is. The ship looks mostly intact, and as such I doubt they are simply stranded on the planet. It could of also simply been a rough landing after the shock wave took out some key systems.

Everyone keeps saying oh noes Tali and Garrus are going to die! this ending is horrible can you imagine the nightmares this is! No really it isn't you are just deciding it is that bad because they didn't explicitly say 'everyone lives happily ever after'

also I don't recall being promised a happy ending.

 

[feeqmatic]

Which brings me to the root of my problem. Why did it have to destroy the relays? Why couldn't it be enough to kill the Reapers but not destroy the Relays? Why did we have to shoehorn that in? Galactic civilization is destroyed, countless people are stranded away from the rest of their species, the lack of travel and communication will lead to economic collapse, many people starving because they can't get the levo or dextro food that they need because of their location, wars may break out, the Krogan in the galaxy are stuck on the planets that they're on and the Genophage has been cured, so they're going to run out of space REAL fast, and god knows where all the people in orbit above Earth are supposed to go or what they'll eat. Also, the Geth get killed, EDI is dead, I went to the trouble of getting the Quarian homeworld back and now they'll never get to see it again, and Garrus and Tali will probably starve on that planet that they're on.

This ending is chock full of Fridge Horror, this is why I hate it so much, especially when we were promised a definitive happy ending. This is the best ending the game has to offer and it is not happy.

Cosign.

For those who keep defending the ending i would really appreciate if you too the opportunity to refute these arguments. It doesnt mean that you have to stop liking the ending, but i really need to see if you at least recognize its flaws.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Cosign.

For those who keep defending the ending i would really appreciate if you too the opportunity to refute these arguments. It doesnt mean that you have to stop liking the ending, but i really need to see if you at least recognize its flaws.

It has been explained multiple times why the mass relays needed to be destroyed. I myself have stated it about 10 different times.

BUT, to go over it again.

It is because the mass relays were built by the reapers to impose technological and societal limits and impose a specific path of evolution on the species of the galaxy.

Leaving them up means we are still bound to the Reapers path, bound their limits, and bound to fall into a dead end, as that was what the path the reapers made led too.

Destroying the relays was the only way to free the people of the galaxy to be able to go down a path they they chose for themselves instead of one set by the reapers.

 

[synobal]

All three games dealt with Organics vs Synthetics, it wasn't new I don't know why everyone keeps acting like it is. Also Deus Ex dealt with the moral implications of transhumanism not artificial life. Though there are some areas of overlap between the two.

Yeah and what have we learned from the times that the game has dealt with it.We learned that organics and inorganics can get along it just needs a bit of work edi legion and the geth prove it just needs a bit of work

the ending just hammers home the point that they can never coexist which is the complete opposite of what the story so far has told again reinforcing the point that this ending belongs somewhere else

You're wrong. The catalyst says the can't that isn't per say true. If you think they can co exist you can choose to control the reapers and then have them retreat.

Or if you think the catalyst is right but think that the mistakes of the past won't be repeated (the mistakes that lead to the creation of the reapers) you can choose to destroy all synthetic life.

Or if you think the catalyst might have a point that since hey in every cycle there was organic vs synthetic war that maybe there is a inherit conflict between the two forms of life, you can choose the middle path to create a synthesis and hope that the future is better for it.

 

[synobal]

Cosign.

For those who keep defending the ending i would really appreciate if you too the opportunity to refute these arguments. It doesnt mean that you have to stop liking the ending, but i really need to see if you at least recognize its flaws.

It has been explained multiple times why the mass rleays needed to be destroyed. I myself have stated it about 10 different times.

I've not said it as much but yes pretty much this. You're welcome to go back and read the thread if you'd like.

 

[Sp3ratus]

Which brings me to the root of my problem. Why did it have to destroy the relays? Why couldn't it be enough to kill the Reapers but not destroy the Relays? Why did we have to shoehorn that in? Galactic civilization is destroyed, countless people are stranded away from the rest of their species, the lack of travel and communication will lead to economic collapse, many people starving because they can't get the levo or dextro food that they need because of their location, wars may break out, the Krogan in the galaxy are stuck on the planets that they're on and the Genophage has been cured, so they're going to run out of space REAL fast, and god knows where all the people in orbit above Earth are supposed to go or what they'll eat. Also, the Geth get killed, EDI is dead, I went to the trouble of getting the Quarian homeworld back and now they'll never get to see it again, and Garrus and Tali will probably starve on that planet that they're on.

This ending is chock full of Fridge Horror, this is why I hate it so much, especially when we were promised a definitive happy ending. This is the best ending the game has to offer and it is not happy.

Cosign.

For those who keep defending the ending i would really appreciate if you too the opportunity to refute these arguments. It doesnt mean that you have to stop liking the ending, but i really need to see if you at least recognize its flaws.

The flaws have been adressed, time and time again, by both SajuukKhar and synobal. Go through the thread and read the posts by those two posters and you'll see.

Basically, civilization needed to be reset in order to follow its own path and not one set out by the Reapers.

I could turn it around and say that the people hating the ending need to read through and understand the comments made by those of us, who defend and like it.

EDIT: Ninjaed by both the posters I suggested reading responses by. Ah well, point still stands.

 

[Korten12]

The flaws have been adressed, time and time again, by both SajuukKhar and synobal. Go through the thread and read the posts by those two posters and you'll see.

Basically, civilization needed to be reset in order to follow its own path and not one set out by the Reapers.

I could turn around and say that the people hating the ending need to read through and understand the comments made by those of us, who defend and like it.

It still makaes no sense. Becuase the path the Reapers put them on? So what, they're some how destined to NEVER advance after the Reapers are gone? That's BULLSHIT. They would still advanced and let grow.

Espicially with no cycle, they could continue to improve upon current technology and become even more advanced. The only difference would be if they can't use reaper technology (which they would most likely all die before they could even advanced) is that it would be slightly different.

 

[theonecookie]

All three games dealt with Organics vs Synthetics, it wasn't new I don't know why everyone keeps acting like it is. Also Deus Ex dealt with the moral implications of transhumanism not artificial life. Though there are some areas of overlap between the two.

Yeah and what have we learned from the times that the game has dealt with it.We learned that organics and inorganics can get along it just needs a bit of work edi legion and the geth prove it just needs a bit of work

the ending just hammers home the point that they can never coexist which is the complete opposite of what the story so far has told again reinforcing the point that this ending belongs somewhere else

You're wrong. The catalyst says the can't that isn't per say true. If you think they can co exist you can choose to control the reapers and then have them retreat.

Or if you think the catalyst is right but think that the mistakes of the past won't be repeated (the mistakes that lead to the creation of the reapers) you can choose to destroy all synthetic life.

Or if you think the catalyst might have a point that since hey in every cycle there was organic vs synthetic war that maybe there is a inherit conflict between the two forms of life, you can choose the middle path to create a synthesis and hope that the future is better for it.[/quote]

Yeah but we don't see this inherent conflict in the story edi is more than wiling to let bygons be bygons and the geth quarian war was started for completely stupid reasons and most likely would have happened even if the geth where organic

The ending really should have focused on the nature of conflict not the relationship between man and machine I would still say its stupid even if it did focus on conflict because mass effect is a much simpler beast than that

 

[Domehammer]

I think the issue with the endings are how abrupt they are. If bioware had taken time to make a quick slideshow of pictures of future, a decade or two at least then the endings would be better.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The flaws have been adressed, time and time again, by both SajuukKhar and synobal. Go through the thread and read the posts by those two posters and you'll see.

Basically, civilization needed to be reset in order to follow its own path and not one set out by the Reapers.

I could turn around and say that the people hating the ending need to read through and understand the comments made by those of us, who defend and like it.

It still makaes no sense. Becuase the path the Reapers put them on? So what, they're some how destined to NEVER advance after the Reapers are gone? That's BULLSHIT. They would still advanced and let grow.

Espicially with no cycle, they could continue to improve upon current technology and become even more advanced. The only difference would be if they can't use reaper technology (which they would most likely all die before they could even advanced) is that it would be slightly different.

They would continue on the Reapers path until the point they eventually became the Reapers. The path of the reapers has all their flaws, all their limitations in it.

If we were able to beat the Reapers why would we want to continue down their path and straddle ourselves with their limits?

I think the issue with the endings are how abrupt they are. If bioware had taken time to make a quick slideshow of pictures of future, a decade or two at least then the endings would be better.

that was the whole point of the stargaze people at the end. to show civilzation did contiue.

 

[Korten12]

The flaws have been adressed, time and time again, by both SajuukKhar and synobal. Go through the thread and read the posts by those two posters and you'll see.

Basically, civilization needed to be reset in order to follow its own path and not one set out by the Reapers.

I could turn around and say that the people hating the ending need to read through and understand the comments made by those of us, who defend and like it.

It still makaes no sense. Becuase the path the Reapers put them on? So what, they're some how destined to NEVER advance after the Reapers are gone? That's BULLSHIT. They would still advanced and let grow.

Espicially with no cycle, they could continue to improve upon current technology and become even more advanced. The only difference would be if they can't use reaper technology (which they would most likely all die before they could even advanced) is that it would be slightly different.

They would continue on the Reapers path until the point they eventually became the Reapers.

The path of the reapers has all their flaws, all their limitations in it.

If we were able to beat the Reapers why would we want to conitue down thier path and straddle ourselves with thier limits?

What proof do you have that they would become Reapers? There is nothing saying that they would. In fact it would make no sense considering that for countless cycles after 50,000 the reapers came and killed them before they could advanced further. So saying they would become Reapers is ignorant.

Also limits? No one showed that they wanted to become part synethic. Never once, in fact the whole reason AI's are banned shows that. They couldn't go past their limites because of the Reapers who would arrive before anything. So we wouldn't know how they would proceed.

 

[synobal]

I think the issue with the endings are how abrupt they are. If bioware had taken time to make a quick slideshow of pictures of future, a decade or two at least then the endings would be better.

that was the whole point of the stargaze people at the end. to show civilzation did contiue.

Even if you didn't catch the whole stargazers at the end of the credits surely they would of caught the significants of Joker and EDI they practically screamed 'Adam and Eve' at me and the planet ooozed garden of eden. Anyone else pick that up?

 

[SajuukKhar]

What proof do you have that they would become Reapers? There is nothing saying that they would. In fact it would make no sense considering that for countless cycles after 50,000 the reapers came and killed them before they could advanced further. So saying they would become Reapers is ignorant.

Also limits? No one showed that they wanted to become part synethic. Never once, in fact the whole reason AI's are banned shows that. They couldn't go past their limites because of the Reapers who would arrive before anything. So we wouldn't know how they would proceed.

What proof?

A civilization can only set a path for others if they understand the path, which means they had to experience that path.

The only path the Reapers could set for others was one that resembled their own and had the same limits as their own. They can't make a path without the limits they suffer from because in being able to set a path for others without your limits you have to overcome your limits.
.
.
.
The Reaper's limits existed beyond being synthetic. Beyond that AIs are banned because AI is dangerous.

Becoming synthetic has nothing to do with the development of AI, it relies on augmenting the organic form with machine parts, and gene manipulation, something that they WERE doing.

 

[feeqmatic]

Cosign.

For those who keep defending the ending i would really appreciate if you too the opportunity to refute these arguments. It doesnt mean that you have to stop liking the ending, but i really need to see if you at least recognize its flaws.

It has been explained multiple times why the mass relays needed to be destroyed. I myself have stated it about 10 different times.

BUT, to go over it again.

It is because the mass relays were built by the reapers to impose technological and societal limits and impose a specific path of evolution on the species of the galaxy.

Leaving them up means we are still bound to the Reapers path, bound their limits, and bound to fall into a dead end, as that was what the path the reapers made led too.

Destroying the relays was the only way to free the people of the galaxy to be able to go down a path they they chose for themselves instead of one set by the reapers.

I promise im trying to be cordial, but that in no way deals with everything the quoted poster stated. Furthermore i have made several points that you seem to have ignored, but since i have your attention lets try again.

Ok lets break this down. Im honestly not trying to be antagonistic, im just trying to see what you and your peers see. I enjoyed the game too much to hate it, but i need to make sense of this and you all seem to get it so help me get it.

1- if the point of the gaurdian/catalyst etc is to maintain organic life by culling it whenever it reaches a certain point, why did it not destry the relays eons ago if that seems to be the "only way" that this society will set its own destiny.

2- How could an ending that would clearly lead to the death and struggle of several main characters and entire races (as stated from the quoted poster) be seen as palatable for even the "good" ending.

3- What about the significant plot holes involving the normandy, why it was in the middle of a relay jump and why certain people get off. The clear Deus ex Machina that is the star child and its unexplained/unfathomable powers that could be fairly described as space magic( one wave engulfs the entire galaxy while at the same time merging synthetic and organic life...?)

4- What about the general lack of content for the ending in that the cinematic and aftermath is highly abbreviated and (at least in my opinion) really is not befitting to end a 3 game epic. It is completely accurate to say that all you get is Shepard's ending sequence, 3 variation of the reapers leaving/dying/stopping, jokers race against the relay, and 3 variations of the normandy opening up with different combinations of who comes out. I know that the ending is meant to be ambigous, but how is that appropriate for this type of game/story?

Please try as you may to address ALL of these and if you say you already have be so kind as to link to your post. I just want to see where you are coming from. Im going to be honest, it seems like you are avoiding any arguments that do not coincide with your opinion of the games ending. I am willing to admit that on several levels it does work/make sense, but on far too many levels, it does not. You seem a bit one sided in your analysis which comes off a bit fanboyish which hurts the credibility of your opinion.

 

[KingofMadCows]

Meh not to me, I mean if the Reapers where trying to save lives why start an invasion using laserbeams when the Collectors where using mainly non-violent means like those stasis bugs, but again I have nothing against those who think the ending was good.

Using stasis bugs doesn't remove the advanced civilizations from the galaxy and thus does not prevent them from making synthetics that would eventually destroy all organic life.

They could EMP planets and nuke the hardened military targets, leaving the population defenseless and ready to be harvested using the Seeker Swarms. Then once they're done harvesting, they could destroy everything that's left.