Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

[feeqmatic]

If villains in stories were completely logical and reasonable people they wouldn't be villains. It makes sense to the reapers, and for all we know the catalyst by any standard AI or Organic is bat shit crazy.

I'd go through explaining what I think is the "logic" behind it but I already posted it some where in this massive thread.

This is a complete and horrible cop out. The villains logic doesnt need to make sense but it does need to be semi based in logic. The 'destroy you to save you" thing has been done countless times and never makes sense especially on this scale. If you have the time please repost your explanation of the logic in this situation i would love to get this perspective.

 

[wicket42]

How do we know the Catalyst's creators didn't build what because The Reapers, who then killed off most of their race, the few remaining ones pulled a Prothean and built a "save the futures ass device" aka The Catalyst, who took control of The Reapers and used them to prevent other races from doing the same thing they did.

OR

The race who built The Catalyst/Reapers could have been a race of super advanced observers who saw the same cycle of synthetics destroying all organic life, only for them(the observers) to then remove the synthetic life, only for Organic life to grow again and repeat the same mistake?

OR

The race could be like the first ancestral race of the Neon Genesis Eva series, and have the catalytic as a super advanced fail-safe device for what they knew, using their godlike intellect, would happen as a parallel to the Lance of Longinus.

None of those make sense.

For the catalyst to be correct at all, all organic life would have already been destroyed.

If that had happened, then organic life restarted anyway and we still wouldn't need the reaper cycle.

If it happens even a single time, there is no organic life left for the Catalyst to turn into reapers in the future, as it would have been wiped out prior to the catalysts solution.

This is reasoning unworthy of an intelligence multiple orders of magnitude greater than our own.

 

[Slaanax]

I actually rather enjoyed the ending because I hated. It wasn't suppose to end like that for my Shepard, but it did. The only thing I didn't like it was lack of context for the end choices I wish there was a way for me to have a minor discussion with someone about the ending to help validate anyone of the three choices.

 

[SajuukKhar]

None of those make sense.

For the catalyst to be correct at all, all organic life would have already been destroyed.

If that had happened, then organic life restarted anyway and we still wouldn't need the reaper cycle.

If it happens even a single time, there is no organic life left for the Catalyst to turn into reapers in the future, as it would have been wiped out prior to the catalysts solution.

This is reasoning unworthy of an intelligence multiple orders of magnitude greater than our own.

So how is the reaper machines killing off the race of the people who built them not killing off all organic life?

Also are you purposefully ignoring the fact that the difference between The Reapers and new synthetic life was that The Reapers are controlled now by the Catalyst and thus not off killing all organic races as they formed, which WOULD happen if say a new synthetic race like the Geth took over?

 

[Sera]

The race could be like the first ancestral race of the Neon Genesis Eva series, and have the catalytic as a super advanced fail-safe device for what they knew, using their godlike intellect, would happen as a parallel to the Lance of Longinus.

Nice idea, but doesn't really make sense in practice. Glad I'm not the only person who knows about the ancestral race, though

Unrelated: I cannot stop listening to the tracks "Leaving Earth" and "An End, Once and For All" from ME3. Such beautiful music. Really jerked my tear ducts when it first played and you leave Anderson behind.

 

[wicket42]

None of those make sense.

For the catalyst to be correct at all, all organic life would have already been destroyed.

If that had happened, then organic life restarted anyway and we still wouldn't need the reaper cycle.

If it happens even a single time, there is no organic life left for the Catalyst to turn into reapers in the future, as it would have been wiped out prior to the catalysts solution.

This is reasoning unworthy of an intelligence multiple orders of magnitude greater than our own.

So how is the reaper machines killing off the race of the people who built them not killing off all organic life?

Also are you purposefully ignoring the fact that the difference between The Reapers and new synthetic life was that The Reapers are controlled now by the Catalyst and thus not off killing all organic races as they formed, which WOULD happen if say a new synthetic race like the Geth took over?

1. There is organic life in the universe, ergo synthetic life will not and has not ever destroyed all organic life.

2. I am not ignoring the fact that the reapers are controlled by the catalyst. I am doing the opposite. I am pointing that out. You need to really read this again.

The Catalyst.
He himself disproves his theory. We know that the Catalyst is a synthetic life-form. In fact, for his theory to have any validity, he would have to be the first, otherwise organic life would have already been wiped out.

The Catalyst's logic must be that future synthetic life will wipe out ALL organic life.

But it's logic can only stand if this occurs 100% of the time, since the reapers will destroy each race eventually 100% of the time. Since he himself does not destroy all organic life, it cannot be 100% of the time

 

[Sera]

I hate to validate the endings as they stand, and I am hoping for a better alternative to be made/present itself, but I can't help but think about them now.

Couldn't the Catalyst be a previous version of Shepard? Not literally, obviously, but another person who had to make the decision to control, destroy or merge with the Reapers? As far as I can remember, the Catalyst doesn't explicitly say that he created the Reapers, just that they are his, and he controls them. He does mention the whole order/chaos bullshit, but maybe after several hundred millennia of solitude, you come around to their way of thinking.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Yes because being able to free all the species from continuous enslavement and live isn't a good ending

Don't be daft. Look at the results of all 3 endings:

Dead Shepard (or twitching, barely alive and all alone on a ruined earth)

Destroyed citadel

Every species from every system boned. Stuck in ships orbiting earth never to return home again due to destroyed relays

Everyone on the citadel dies

Galactic civilisation ends. No means to travel to eachother anymore.

Shepard's squad stranded with no one for company but themselves and hopefully a lot of Viagra.

All of the political, social, personal relationships and choices you made over 200 hours meaning absolutely nothing in the end as everyone is pretty much boned no matter what you do.

An AI that says Synthetics and organics can't co-exist, sticking a massive middle finger up to all that effort you put into making peace between the Quarians and Geth.

HUGE choices like whether or not to cure the Genophage mean NOTHING because there are no more relays.

That to me is a bad ending.

 

[wicket42]

ME3 ending. Sloppy. Poorly written.

The rest of ME3 was astounding. I have cried reading a book. I have cried watching films. Until I played ME3 I had never cried because of a video game (if you're wondering it was Mordin's singing death). It makes me proud of how far gaming has come.

But the ending is pants. I guess with ME3 I will have to console myself with "Sometimes it's about the journey, not the destination."

 

[Sera]

ME3 ending. Sloppy. Poorly written.

The rest of ME3 was astounding. I have cried reading a book. I have cried watching films. Until I played ME3 I had never cried because of a video game (if you're wondering it was Mordin's singing death).

:C Mordin didn't sing in my game, just said that it was a new beginning, and then exploded. Still cried, though.

CRIED MAN TEARS.

 

[Kahldris71]

No they sucked, because of the following.
{spoilers Dont Read if you havent finished)

1. You can prove the AI totally wrong with two separate entities, EDI and The Geth. [Legion, Carry on my Angel...] cough erm moving on

2. The AI is just like the villains from Final Fantasy 10, "i will destroy Spira i will save it." in other words Fucking Retarded, where is my Paragon option to convince him to stay the fuck outta our business? Who elected him space police? He is doing exactly what he preaches against, He spares the younger races, but this is one galaxy, there are too many for him to effectively police, one will eventually create this AI and mistreat it until it kills them. Eventually they will cross the border between galaxies. What then? Do the Reapers ally with the current races to destroy the new threat? Since he is a true AI, he would learn from Shep, he would see that the Synthetics and organics can peacefully coexist, someone just had to show them the way. The AI would see the impossible realized, by his programming his logic would dictate that he either adapt to the new way of thinking or destroy himself.

3. The Normandy fled the battle, something Joker would NEVER EVER DO, the Normandy was the tip of the spear, its not feasible that it managed to make it to the relay, and jump. Besides that if the relay discharged while the Normandy was in FTL the Ship would be destroyed entirely or at least be stranded in dark space. Also the chances that joker managed to guide a severely damaged ship, missing its thrusters, on the verge of breaking up, through a planets atmosphere without turning into super-heated shrapnel is beyond far-fetched. The fact that it was also somewhere habitable also jostled my flaps, nobodies luck is that good.

4. The way this series was set up, it was by our decision either we triumphed or we failed, Saved the galaxy or died trying. It was never about self-sacrifice, it was about beating the odds, making the impossible possible through sheer force of will and determination. Shep already proved he was more then willing to give his life, for the galaxy, on more then one occasion i might add.More Endings need to be added, as well as an epilogue detailing the effect your choices had on the galaxy. The costs were heavy either way, the population of the galaxy has been cut by at least 40%. That has significant impact alone and i personally wanna know how things shake out.

In the end the game was good, i enjoyed playing through it and even though the ending was lazy, the rest of it was good. Legion saying "I" for the first time made the entire game worth it. Also Terminally Ill Thane kicking Kai Langs ass was awesome. As was Stabbing kai with my omni-blade thing.
Had to be Shep, someone else might have gotten it wrong. oh wait. Mordin would be fuckin pissed.

Also The Quarians had their liveships with them, as they were technically as powerful as a dread, so no i dont believe they would die as long as those ships could continue producing food.

Captcha oddly fitting "I Want Control"

 

[AlmostLikeLife]

I just beat ME3 not an hour ago.

Before I go on with my thoughts on the ending, I would just like to write the following:

I played the first Mass Effect in late 2009. I fell in love with it right then and there. Everything about it had me enthralled. I sing the series' praises every chance I get. I consider my favorite game series of all time. Even as I'm writing this out, I've got the soundtrack from ME1 playing in the background.


That being said, I can't help but feel let-down by the ending/choices of endings.

All of the choices that I've made, all of the conflicts that I've ended, it all ends up being nothing.

I mean, I guessed that Shepard would end up dying. But I figured it would be to ensure that the galaxy would be left in a better place. Instead, the Mass Relays are destroyed and now (because of the choice I made) everyone is some Organic/Synthetic hybrid.

Then, after the credits, I get some cutscene of a kid and his grandpa (or something) looking up at the stars.

"Tell me another story about the Shepard." asks the kid.

"Okay... one more."

Then I get popped back in front of the galaxy map from right before the assault on Cerberus.

Maybe I'm just not letting it sink in before criticizing it, I don't know. I'm not saying that I'm giving up on the series and I won't play it anymore. Far from it, it's still my all-time favorite video game series. It's just disheartening that it came down to this.

 

[Avatar Roku]

ME3 ending. Sloppy. Poorly written.

The rest of ME3 was astounding. I have cried reading a book. I have cried watching films. Until I played ME3 I had never cried because of a video game (if you're wondering it was Mordin's singing death). It makes me proud of how far gaming has come.

But the ending is pants. I guess with ME3 I will have to console myself with "Sometimes it's about the journey, not the destination."

Personally, what got me in ME3 was talking to Garrus on Earth. He sounded so resigned to death, and he and Shep (femshep, fyi) both sounded so choked up when they were talking about how good a friend the other had been to them. It just got to me, what can I say.

Yes because being able to free all the species from continuous enslavement and live isn't a good ending

Don't be daft. Look at the results of all 3 endings:

Dead Shepard (or twitching, barely alive and all alone on a ruined earth)

Destroyed citadel

Every species from every system boned. Stuck in ships orbiting earth never to return home again due to destroyed relays

Everyone on the citadel dies

Galactic civilisation ends. No means to travel to eachother anymore.

Shepard's squad stranded with no one for company but themselves and hopefully a lot of Viagra.

All of the political, social, personal relationships and choices you made over 200 hours meaning absolutely nothing in the end as everyone is pretty much boned no matter what you do.

An AI that says Synthetics and organics can't co-exist, sticking a massive middle finger up to all that effort you put into making peace between the Quarians and Geth.

HUGE choices like whether or not to cure the Genophage mean NOTHING because there are no more relays.

That to me is a bad ending.

Those last parts are the big ones to me. Everyone was talking about how amazing Shepard was for uniting the Geth and Quarians, and the Krogan and Turians. But for what? It made absolutely no difference in the end.

The entire time I was playing, I'd heard that the ending involved deus ex machina. But I always assumed it was just the Crucible itself. And I was fine with that, because they weren't pulling it out at the last second, they were actually developing it. Hell, I'd have been ok with a goddamned "Reaper off-switch" if it had been developed that much. But then we get to the end, and right when Hackett should be radioing us about how the Crucible worked and it's over, we're told it didn't and it's not, and we're then subjected to the REAL deus ex machina.

All they had to do was end it there and it would have been great. Fantastic, even. It would have been a victory against the Reapers that was actually earned; not given to us too easily, not dangled over our heads so our work meant nothing. Hell, Shepard could have died there and it would have been just fine. But no, we have to choose between 3 options that were not developed at all and really do feel like they were jammed in there at the last second.

To the people defending the endings, I see your point. I really do. The endings themselves are not inherently bad. If developed well, they could have actually been quite good. But look at how it happened. The game was over, but then our ending was just snatched away from us. We go from an ending where the historic work that Shepard did, that we did, really mattered and paid off, to an ending where every previous choice we made was devalued.

The Reapers' goals and such, even the Catalyst AI, could have worked on their own, but they really, really should have been developed. As it was, they were pulled out with 10 minutes to go, when we're already past the game's climax (EDIT: The climax being the confrontation with The Illusive Man, btw)and not at the point where we want new elements introduced. Ever notice how, in ME1 and 2, you made your big choice BEFORE (or, in ME2's case, before round 2 of) the big boss fight? There's a reason for that: pacing. Momentum. Pulling out that sort of bombshell when the pacing was telling us that the game is over is just horrible storytelling. When talking to the Catalyst, Shepard looks and sounds dazed and confused, and at that moment, I felt the same way.

 

[William Ossiss]

I'm simply upset that, in the very end, nothing I did mattered in the least. I enjoyed the warriors' death, was pretty stoic. I think someone in the Bioware forum said it best:
"The game is like climbing up a super hill made of awesome, only to find Jar Jar Binks at the top."

 

[Z_Shadow_Hunter]

I don't know what all this Kid and light beam talk is. My Shep Retired and is raising a family with his Ash with Tali and Garrus living next door...well once all four of them eventually retire form helping piece together there respective civilizations and such. They have there friends over for cook outs exchange stories visit other friends occasionally, but for the most part they enjoy the peace they all sacrificed to much to obtain.

 

[gundamrx101]

So choices went out the window, people are arguing/defending that.
The argument the Reapers had went out the window for some, including myself with the whole organics vs synthetics. I united the Geth and the Quarian. Hell, the old Geth archives showed that the Geth wanted to live peacfully with their creators. So by the AI saying synthetics are evil and will destroy humanity with no proof or backing was just dumb. Even EDI once she was free chose to integrate herself with the crew. All that hard work over the course of two games, just so Bioware could rip of the Age Of Strife from Warhammer 40k. Actually now that I think about Mass Effect is one big Warhammer rip off.

I can see the point of people defending these endings but at the same time. This statement "Humanity can now freely chose their path" is completely redundant. We'll just head back up into the stars with Mass Relay 2.0, which could still be manipulated by an outside force/start a new war. Life goes on and the cycle continues.

That statement there is why I'm pissed. The cycle continues. What good are choices when you can't break the cycle? I proved that organics and synthetics can live in harmony, but some asshole is going to tell me that it was temporary. No, the Geth wanted to be with their creators. Living in harmony. That's why they chose to never purge from their databanks the sacrifices that many Quarians made to protect them. I helped the Quarians see the error of their ways and they in turn wanted to live in harmony with the Geth.

It's Dragon Age 2 all over again. I made the choice to sacrifice my PC to rid the world of the blight. Then in DA2 they state that my PC went missing. I guess he got bored of being dead. If Bioware wanted to give us free will in out games to determine an ending. Why restrict us? Three games, all with choices; expanding with every game and it boils down to Human Revolution. Press button A to bake bread, ect ect.

You guys can argue and defend the endings all you want, but from a writing stand point and at their core. They're lazy. I knew going in not everyone would walk away from this fight but I knew you could change certain outcomes. It turns out though, no. No you really can't. This hard reset ending is about as lazy as the "It was all dream" endings or the horror movie "It's all over now but it isn't" endings. I could see how the relays posed a threat, but couldn't the crucible be programmed to just detect Reaper IFFs? So when Shepard set it off, sure it shut down the relays and takes out the reapers but leaves the ships intact. That would be a bittersweet ending. Reapers wiped out, Technology still intact but the relays are disabled with no way in the near future to boot them back up.

We don't even get that. Everyone crash lands, stranded and defeated. Your choices didn't matter, getting ready didn't matter. Life goes on anyway. So what was the point of building up EMS? Oh right, to get a different angle on the same cutscene. You guys can respond but I'm not going to waste my breath replying. At the end of the day, Bioware decided to turn the "epic" conclusion to SHEPARD'S (as opposed to ending the Mass Effect franchise which they stated could still go on without Shepard) story into the history eraser button. Thanks Bioware.

 

[monkeymo4d]

Did sherpard ever have those blue kids with liara ?
Did Conrad ever become a Spectre?
Did Ash ever stop being a ****?
So many things left unanswered, and for what? For 3 endings which do not reflect my Shepards character or what he worked and sacrificed for.
I think you may need to put a little more work into your "epic" endings Bioware

 

[Haloperidol]

I don't know what all this Kid and light beam talk is. My Shep Retired and is raising a family with his Ash with Tali and Garrus living next door...well once all four of them eventually retire form helping piece together there respective civilizations and such. They have there friends over for cook outs exchange stories visit other friends occasionally, but for the most part they enjoy the peace they all sacrificed to much to obtain.

I do believe we both got the same ending, sir.

 

[Deremix]

Jeez, this is still going on?

Alright, I think BioWare just needs to release a fourth ending for the people who don't like the really bittersweet endings that take a lot of analysis to come to like. (I'm one of the people who like the endings).

Here's what they could do:
Add a fourth choice. Basically, turn around to the Catalyst and say something along the lines of "No, no more choices, this ends here and now." Shepard can then shoot the Catalysts who merely disintegrates into thin air, kind of resembling his reoccurring nightmares. Shepard closes his eyes, then the camera pans away from Shepard lying in front of the console in the Citadel. Turns out that was his imagination playing tricks while he was unconscious. He then sluggishly rises up to the console as Hackett tells him nothings happening, and after fumbling with the console, can't find anything to do. He contacts EDI who eventually explains what to try. It works and the Crucible fires, and the Reapers start malfunctioning. Problem is, they are all also starting to explode, which will have some huge impact on Earth and the Citadel itself. So, the Normandy speeds to the window Shepard's staring out of and the doors open allowing Shepard to just barely jump inside. They then flee the Sol relay along with the entire fleet as the Reapers everywhere are destroyed. The effects are widespread, but not as drastic as the impact on Earth and the Citadel.

So, after all of this, they could show epilogues for Shepard, his/her crew, his/her friends, his/her LI. Then the credits can roll and the Stargazer video can still be there.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Jeez, this is still going on?

Alright, I think BioWare just needs to release a fourth ending for the people who don't like the really bittersweet endings that take a lot of analysis to come to like. (I'm one of the people who like the endings).

Here's what they could do:
Add a fourth choice. Basically, turn around to the Catalyst and say something along the lines of "No, no more choices, this ends here and now." Shepard can then shoot the Catalysts who merely disintegrates into thin air, kind of resembling his reoccurring nightmares. Shepard closes his eyes, then the camera pans away from Shepard lying in front of the console in the Citadel. Turns out that was his imagination playing tricks while he was unconscious. He then sluggishly rises up to the console as Hackett tells him nothings happening, and after fumbling with the console, can't find anything to do. He contacts EDI who eventually explains what to try. It works and the Crucible fires, and the Reapers start malfunctioning. Problem is, they are all also starting to explode, which will have some huge impact on Earth and the Citadel itself. So, the Normandy speeds to the window Shepard's staring out of and the doors open allowing Shepard to just barely jump inside. They then flee the Sol relay along with the entire fleet as the Reapers everywhere are destroyed. The effects are widespread, but not as drastic as the impact on Earth and the Citadel.

So, after all of this, they could show epilogues for Shepard, his/her crew, his/her friends, his/her LI. Then the credits can roll and the Stargazer video can still be there.

The problem is not that the ending is bittersweet or takes analysis. It's horribly developed. To quote myself from above:

To the people defending the endings, I see your point. I really do. The endings themselves are not inherently bad. If developed well, they could have actually been quite good. But look at how it happened. The game was over, but then our ending was just snatched away from us. We go from an ending where the historic work that Shepard did, that we did, really mattered and paid off, to an ending where every previous choice we made was devalued.

The Reapers' goals and such, even the Catalyst AI, could have worked on their own, but they really, really should have been developed. As it was, they were pulled out with 10 minutes to go, when we're already past the game's climax (EDIT: The climax being the confrontation with The Illusive Man, btw)and not at the point where we want new elements introduced. Ever notice how, in ME1 and 2, you made your big choice BEFORE (or, in ME2's case, before round 2 of) the big boss fight? There's a reason for that: pacing. Momentum. Pulling out that sort of bombshell when the pacing was telling us that the game is over is just horrible storytelling. When talking to the Catalyst, Shepard looks and sounds dazed and confused, and at that moment, I felt the same way.