Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[FedericoV]

The original ending as envisioned by the original lead writer of the ME series was not the ending we got. For two games the series builded the themes that were meant to be explored in the ending. That ending would have even explained the meaning of the the franchise's name. It would not have been any happier, maybe it would have been even more tragic and depressing, but it would have made sense and would have taken in to account what has happened before during the entire series. Not only that: even the leaked script of November 2011 has in many ways a different ending. That alone contradicts anything Yathzee has to "offer" on the theme. The ending wasn't planned at all. They pulled it out on the fly, just like Lost authors, mixing sources that do not fit with ME themes at all, like the original Dues Ex or Matrix Revolution.

In my opinion, ME3 endings suck on any level: writing, art, gameplay, storytelling. You name it. Is it a tragedy? No, off course. And I agree that the rest of the game is mostly good (even if it has his problems too).

But when someone judges the loud reaction of Bioware's fanbase, he should take in to account that the company in question have done anything in the last years to break the relation of trust with their player base. I'm talking of the long list of lies that the devs has fed us during the last years. Like, you know, "you can have the better ending without playing MP". I'm talking of their crappy and rushed games of late, where recycling and cutting corners have become "innovation". Like, you know, DA2, defined by the free and illuminated critics of The Escapist as "the best RPG of the year". I'm talking of the business model they are trying to impose on their fanbase. Like, you know, day one DLC that were part of the damn original CD.

ME3 endings are just the last drop. Only if you know what has happened before you can understand the dire situation of late. Btw, I do not want Bioware to rewrite the ending: I hope they stay the same so anyone can judge on his own what's happened to that incredible, creative and friendly company when EA has come in to the picture. It's important that nothing is touched so we, as simple gamers, can judge the credibility of the gaming press and their perfect scores on metacritic.

Having said all of that: anyone is entitled to his opinion. But it's strange to see a reviewer, one who lives thanks to his criticism, that questions the intelligence of fans who are simply expressing their criticism about a piece of art and asking for an alternative ending they are willing to pay for.

Especially from Yathzee, who has allways talked about the special nature of videogames as an interactive form of art, who has allways talked about the general stupidity of game storytelling. Now he questions the demand for more interactivity, more intelligence and more respect on any level. Now he plays the "it's art" card. Well, I guess that I should not come to The Escapist if I want to read/see something honest about EA/Bioware...

PS: Btw, corporate companies like Bioware use focus groups to test their games and they change their plans according to the result of those testing. If games were really art and could not be questioned, companies should not use such tools. But games are not art, at least not AAA games. So, tell me, what's the difference between focus group and the feedback of the fans?

 

[survivor686]

With all due respect to Yahtzee, I can't help but feel that he had missed the main points over the furor of the endings.

A. During the lead up to its release, the developers promised us (aka: their customers) that Mass Effect 3 would have multiple endings (at least 16 I believe). Instead we got 3 variations on the same one (Red, Blue and Green).

This is akin to Mercedes promising us the next evolution in car technology and then providing us a somewhat inferior product. While still charging us the same price.

B. The endings themselves are filled with plot-holes, bizarre logical fallacies and break some concrete rules of narrative. In just ten minutes we have transformed the "Cthulesque" horror of the Reapers into the more "well-intentioned extremist" trope. When combined with their bizarre methods of achieving their goals (seriously didn't anyone consider Asimov's three laws of robotics?) made the ending sequence akin to deflating a balloon.

C. By changing the endings, Bioware will not be succumbing to political correctness. Instead it would a company acknowledging the fact that a significant proportion of their customers are displeased with the product. This would be seen on the same level as test audiences rejecting ridiculous endings or publisher's telling novel authors to fix/remove awful plot points. Most forms of art have always had some form of interaction with the creator and the viewer. Perhaps the furor over the ending is the next evolution of that interaction?

PS: Anyone else confused as to how the damn "Starchild" looked exactly as that one kid?

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Well, with all due respect... Yahtzee, you've missed the point. Aka the reason for outrage.
Ending is filled with plotholes and contradicts itself.
Imagine Tolkien writing about Gollum appearing in the Shire after the destruction of the ring - with no explanation. Someone would tell "Mr. Tolkien, you actually killed him in the lava a chapter ago... Erm?".
Same with Mass Effect 3 ending scene.

 

[Gigatoast]

I at no point said "majority." Unfortunately, there are people making unreasonable demands and the fact that their number is greater than 1 means there are too many.

But most people who take the movement seriously see those people the same way you do, whiney and entitled. They don't support or condone those who are making unreasonable demands because they're just giving them a bad name. For all intents and purposes they are not part of the movement

1. Do not use this position to file a lawsuit with the FTC as I can guarantee you will lose. That is not how the law works. I understand that is not a majority opinion, but the fact that some people are filing the lawsuit at all means that it needs to be said.

I... don't really get that guy, neither to most of the retakers. I'm guess he wasn't actually expecting to get very far, he just wanted to make a statement. The retakers don't want to do any irreverseable damage to Bioware anyway, we want them to work with us, that would be counter-productive.

2. Bioware is not actually obligated to respond. Sending ultimatums actually hurts a cause more often than not as the recipient will usually be very happy to call your bluff.

Us retakers fully respect Bioware's right not to respond to us, but they have to live with the consiquences if they don't. Consumer trust is a very important commodity that can be easily lost if a company doesn't handle their PR well.

That said, publishers don't generally take threats of boycott (and that is essentially what this shakes down to) seriously as gamers have repeatedly proven to have very little in the way of willpower. Consider the Steam groups who declared they were boycotting a title and then the majority of their members were found playing that title on launch day. It sent a message to publishers that our threats are hollow.

Oh hell yes, I hate boycott groups. But they're usually formed from a group of people who want the thing they're attempting to boycott, and are often driven to protest because of a business decision or something else they don't like. NOT because they simply don't want the product. Ask any retaker and they'll tell you the ending pretty much ruined their desire to play any further DLC and they don't really trust future Bioware games to deliver on the studio's promises.

So it's not activism, it's simple cause and effect consumer economics. Retakers want to like Bioware again, but if they just blow us off then we wont be enclined to purchase from them.

Also, if you want to be seen as reasonable, you need to vocally denounce the people who exploited Child's Play as emotional blackmail and then demanded their money back. You need to tell the people who make unreasonable statements and demands that they do not speak for you. If you do not wish to be generalized as being one of them, you need to give us a reason to see you as standing apart.

Well where did you hear about them? Because all the offical statements from both the charity and the movement organizers have insisted they do not condone or support any of those people. But many articles have been trying to put a negative spin on everything we do, god knows why, maybe they just want us to shut up.

But the majority of the retaker protest stratagies have been positive and constructive. (though quite a bit of them come at great personal cost to us, but maybe that just puts a dent in the 'entitled' argument)

For example, check out this thread I posted if you haven't already: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.357872-Angry-ME3-fans-send-cupcakes-to-Bioware?page=1

So far you personally have done little to convince me, though this is a step in the right direction. I have repeatedly said that I'm okay with people not liking the ending and taking their business elsewhere. I just don't want them coming into every thread to go, "Cool story bro. Hey, did I mention that this totally relates to how much I think Bioware sucks?"

I can't really justify the actions of people who actually are friggen annoying, and you're well within your rights go tell them to STFU. But I don't want them to shine such a negative light on the entire movement. There's always people who take a cause too far, but that doesn't take away from the cause itself.

We're really a respectful bunch, though there's still lots of crazy speculation and joke threads on BSN anyone who tries to make us look like 'whining entitled children' is promptly slapped down when confronted by the core of the movement.

Just for the hell-of-it here's a thread from BSN that pretty much everyone who's part of the movement agrees with. It's basically our mission statement.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10662944

 

[moosek]

The way the games press handled this was in many ways a mistake. IGN's Colin Moriarty takes a platitude that the outcriers are a minority that is entitled and will compromise Bioware's artistic integrity. Destructoid's Max Scoville likens fans to a manbaby horde. The press is presenting the grass roots outrage to the creators regardless of how the message is actually presented. The rhetoric is currently, "Change the ending because we're pissed off," when in reality most of the things expressed are, "That ending was terrible and made no sense."

I don't care if they don't change it, but what else does Bioware have to offer with their DLC that they immediately proposed after the end of the game. What Yahtzee mentioned seems like an ideal solution, appease the fans with elaboration of alternation of the current ending with added content.

That being said here's what I'm fine with about the ending:
-Shepard's death: The fact that dying is inevitable is something I can accept.
-Shutting down the Mass Relays: This is something I actually saw coming.
-Confronting the Illusive Man: I wanted resolution.
-The credits song: It's a pretty chill song.

Here's what I hate about the ending:
-The space ghost: That kid's ghost showing up and basically introducing nonsense.
-The lack of agency: There's no effective player choice in the ending.
-The Normandy inexplicably appearing elsewhere: This scene sucked, and the first time I saw it I knew the ending was rushed.
-The ambiguous post credits where a child asks about 'The Shepard': This was totally unnecessary and was contrived for artistic merit.

 

[Jezzy54]

I think the indoctrination theory explains the plotholes enough to avoid an entire overhaul of the ending. Personally, I have a bad feeling BioWare deliberately left an opening for one of those DLC resolutions. Also, Squad characters don't all necessarily die like you seem to be saying, so there is room for closure with them. And I call bullshit on the "hopeless cycle" interpretation. Mass Effect is a friggin' RPG, it's supposed to be all about making choices with significantly different outcomes. During the development stage, BioWare specifically claimed there'd be much more depth to the endings, not just "A, B or C", the latter being pretty much what happens in the game. I think you might just be making excuses.

 

[shrekfan246]

I believe someone on this very website once said:
"Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it. Incidentally, why not buy a Zero Punctuation t-shirt?"

And I believe that statement holds true to this instance. It's really the only thing I have left to say in any Mass Effect related thread now. I might as well smash my head against a brick wall than try debating with anyone who dislikes the endings of the game. Oh, I know all of the arguments. But you see, the thing is? I just don't care. I have better things to do than get outraged over a video game ending. Which is saying something, because pretty much all I do with my free time is play video games.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The counterpoint to the "artistic integrity" argument is very simple.

Mass Effect is commercial art. The "artistic integrity" of the product is already beholden to its financial backers (For instance, Javik and his mission were removed to cut development time to meet a release date determined by the publisher).

As the old maxim goes, "he who pays the piper calls the tune", and ultimately we as gamers are the ones paying.

More, naturally, from Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/27/mass-effect-3-and-corporate-influence-over-commercial-art/]

 

[anthony87]

Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________



Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

*sigh*

Yes, and I'm sure you came up with all this indoctrination stuff yourself.

I'm not trying to attack your or anything but all this "indoctrination theory" nonsense just reeks of fanfiction to me and the fact that people are clinging to it so desperately just goes to show how much Bioware dropped the ball with the ending.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Listen, I have empathy for my fellow gamer for most things. But not this.

This whole ME3 ending thing was blown way way out of proportion. I can understand you are upset and saddened by the ending but that's where my empathy ends.

You can be dissatisfied with a game, you can be pissed all your questions weren't answered, you can be upset with bioware and even boycott future games. But you aren't entitled to tell the developers what to do.

If you don't like how they do business/make games/talk to customers/make videos/listen to music than you are fully within your right to not support them don't buy their products, don't visit their forums and don't hang onto their every word like it's a promise.

but don't buy their game and then complain you don't like it and they need to change it, it's asinine. I have a copy of alone in the dark but you don't see me petitioning Atari to take out the driving sections and replace it with something better.

not to mention the whole 'retake mass effect' movement couldn't be any more disorganized, other than 'we want a new ending' everyone involved seems to have a different idea of what should happen.

can we just move on now?

I love how every time someone speaks against this whole retake ME3 nonsense people just dismiss everything with 'Meh, s/he just doesn't get it'

because obviously the hatred for Mass Effect 3's ending must be unanimous across all gamer culture.

I should go on record (as I have elsewhere) as saying the writing the situation of the ending is not something I am clamoring to get changed. That's the ending they wanted I suppose they had some reasons, fine okay, not thrilled with it but it's not my hang up.

I DO want them to slap an Epilog on it though. I am gunning for that. I am willing to shell out for it as DLC if need be, but I want some closure and yes, maybe that does make me a bit entitled, but let me lay it out from my perspective.

I have bought their games - many of them, not just ME - and I have "liked" all their FB pages when they asked me to, and all the subsequent posts they've asked me to to get X or Y. I have bought things I don't particularly need to get extras and bonuses. I have followed their blogs and their tweets and their e-mails faithfully. I have done, in short, everything they have asked of me as a consumer so far as I was possibly able to do. I am asking them for something in return: an epilog to tell me what happened to the characters and the story they made me care about so deeply and then left open and seemingly unfinished. If that makes me seem entitled it might be because I do feel entitled to what I was told would be delivered when I stuck with them all this way listening to them tell me it would be delivered and believing they would make good on that promise. Tell me what happened. Let me be done. Let me have closure so I can go play all your games again and again and again in happiness and contentment even if I don't love every single thing about each and every one of them - I love them as a whole.

Thank you for the understanding though, of my feelings. I do appreciate it. I think people are losing sight of the fact that this whole thing started with the emotions of players, not the rights of players vs. the rights of artists, not the argument about what is sacred and what is mutable, but with an emotion felt by a player at the end of a roller coaster ride of emotions brought about by a game - which is really a beautiful thing turned so ugly now that the conflict keeps going on.

 

[Lillowh]

How come the only people who knows what the F they're talking about when it comes to why people hate the ending is Shamus Young and This gamefront article on why the fans are right [http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right]

 

[irishda]

You missed the point Yahtzee. -Everyone who doesn't agree with him

Did he? Did he REALLY miss the point? Did he "assume" your stance despite the countless thousands of threads spent by so many of you solidifying your points? Is it more likely he characterized your positions in a way that made you look unfavorable and now you're just assuming he "doesn't understand"? Maybe you guys are assuming his position.

For starters, there appears to be zero fucking solidarity in the Retake crowd on what exactly they want Bioware to do.

"We want more varied endings!"
"We want more closure!"
"We want a less depressing option!"
"We don't want them to change the end. But we do want an epilogue!"

Yahtzee might be misrepresenting YOUR particular stance, but there's about a thousand other people that seem to have the stance he's talking about. Maybe this is why so many of us see you all as whiny children, who never quite understood life's gonna let you down sometimes, because you can't even agree on what you WANT. And then you just write off any criticism as "people who just didn't get it" (sound familiar?)

Second, there seems to be an assumption of Yahtzee's stance on the ending, as is typical when people are simply blowing off valid criticism. I don't think Yahtzee likes the ending, in fact he probably hates it. But he understands that allowing the fans to set the precedent that all stories must adhere to their specifications and expectations is a terrible idea. Moviebob raised the point that taking control out of the writers' hands means they'll take absolutely zero risks. Why would they if the audience is just gonna make 'em change it to what they want?

TL;DR:Yahtzee didn't miss your point A: because there's not even one single point to begin with and B: you're just pissed he's not agreeing with you.

 

[FedericoV]

-Shepard's death: The fact that dying is inevitable is something I can accept.

I would be able to accept it too, but what you say is false. The only real permutation in the endings that keep tracks of what you have done before it, is a 5 second scene that happens if you choose the red ending and have more than 4000 EMS points: Sheppard lives and start breathing in London's ruined rubble (don't aske me how he survived: probably it's another kind of SPACE MAGIC).

Honestly, I believe that no amount of context can save the ending since its premise are circular and does not make any kind of sense (I will avoid the point that thematically the ending are out of place and do not fit the series at all). So, since the synthethics will allways revolt and kill the organics in every cycle, then the Starchild have created a race of syntethics that save organics killing them all and turning them in to monsters? Hu?

Honestly, what kind of context can you give to these mess. If the Starchild is all about saving organic and avoid that tecnology advancement kill them, he could have used better means than killing organics and turn them in to ugly and rabid monsters, using procedures that would have make Mengelev smile in the process. Like, you know, destroying the syntethics every now and then. Or using indoctrination to create a universal religion where intellingent AI are tabù. Or trying to make them coexist thanks to his superior intellingence. Like, you know, just what you have done in the game some hours before when you were able to reach some kind of peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

 

[irishda]

The counterpoint to the "artistic integrity" argument is very simple.

Mass Effect is commercial art. The "artistic integrity" of the product is already beholden to its financial backers (For instance, Javik and his mission were removed to cut development time to meet a release date determined by the publisher).

As the old maxim goes, "he who pays the piper calls the tune", and ultimately we as gamers are the ones paying.

More, naturally, from Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/27/mass-effect-3-and-corporate-influence-over-commercial-art/]

Ultimately doesn't trump over immediately.

 

[irishda]

-Shepard's death: The fact that dying is inevitable is something I can accept.

I would be able to accept it too, but what you say is false. The only real permutation in the endings that keep tracks of what you have done before it, is a 5 second scene that happens if you choose the red ending and have more than 4000 EMS points: Sheppard lives and start breathing in London's ruined rubble (don't aske me how he survived: probably it's another kind of SPACE MAGIC).

Honestly, I believe that no amount of context can save the ending since its premise are circular and does not make any kind of sense (I will avoid the point that thematically the ending are out of place and do not fit the series at all). So, since the synthethics will allways revolt and kill the organics in every cycle, then the Starchild have created a race of syntethics that save organics killing them all and turning them in to monsters? Hu?

Honestly, what kind of context can you give to these mess. If the Starchild is all about saving organic and avoid that tecnology kill them, he could have used better means than killing organics and turn them in to ugly and rabid monsters, using procedures that would have make Mengelev smile. Like, you know, destroying the syntethics every now and then. Or using indoctrination to create a universal religion where intellingent AI are tabù.

I mean, where is the love ?

The important bit you left out though is that the reapers leave. They take away the ugly monsters and let new civilizations advance. Meanwhile, the synthetics of a less-farseeing culture might have slightly more power-grabbing goals. For instance if the reapers didn't kill everyone with the capacity to make synthetics, what's to stop the Geth eventually saying "fuck this, leave us alone crap and roll on these bitches"? And then if the Geth succeed in dominating everyone, what's to stop them from eradicating all organic life? The goal was never to preserve organic life in it's current state, but rather to ensure it's continued survival entirely.

There might have been better methods, but eh, this is what the team went with.

 

[Sanguinedragon]

Well yahtzee let me explain it to you by using a series you love.
You freely admit that you aren't realy into mass effect so you have already missed the mark. so let me use an analogy with your beloved silent hill 2.
LEt us say you get to the final part then ending boss fight ( I love silent hill btw) and the game all of a sudden stops. A UNicorn appears and says "to stop this evil you must choose
1: to leave with the little girl live happily ever after and marry a hot chick.
2: leave with maria live a long lovely life have many babies
3: leave with maria and the girl and live happily ever after.
Then some unicorns and rainbows glow and dance, in different colors depending on which ending you choose and then ends with a big poster going "Hey for some real Silent Hill buy our DLC!!!"

If that had happened you would throw a fit so massive it would be recordable from space.

And you are forgetting the flat out promises made to us from memebers of the development team.

If I made a game for you and i PROMISED you a gun that shoots shurikens and lightning has tits and is on fire. and then, when you played the game, it turned out to actually be a pop gun that lights on fire burning you when you use it, you would absolutely demand that get fixed.

 

[Silver Patriot]

I am just mad because the ending didn't make sense to me. I have this little kid explaining to me that Synthetics and Organics could never get along. Meanwhile I have two different types of Synthetics out there (EDI and the ENTIRE GETH FLEET) proving it wrong. I wanted to scream at it "LOOK, LOOK RIGHT OUT THERE!" However this subject was not even acnowledged by the kid. Hell a simple "it will not last" would have been better than nothing.

And on the subject of cycles. All my Mass Effect gameplay up to that point told me that cycles could be broken if people are willing to work together.

I am not asking for a new ending, but I am still disapointed.

 

[Samantha Burt]

an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Which is exactly what was missing.

I mean, let's put aside the fact that we were told there'd be multiple endings up until about a month before release; this one thing would've made the current endings slightly more bearable.

I know what you mean. I was expecting some Fallout3-esque montage about how our decisions had resonated through the galaxy, seeing a krogan shake hands with a turian or geth helping quarians build homes. Something like that would at least have the feel that our decisions bore some weight in the universe.

 

[Jaeke]

Am I the only person who finished it without "everyone dying"?

I mean, yeah a lot of people died; nameless people of all species if that's what you mean. But it seems like for everyone, all of their teammates died as well, when all of mine lived.

They mean about how all of your crew is somehow, due to "SPACE MAGIC LAPOFJAOISFJIO!" crashed on a random planet in the middle of nowhere and will no doubt starve to death and even if they tried to reproduce there would be huge amounts of inbreeding and death.

 

[Active Schizophrenic]

This is the funniest thread in a while! Im so ridiculously happy I never liked mass effect and I dont have to deal with the "change Mass effects ending" whiny fanboy bullshit. Who am I going to listen to on this matter eh? Some asshole on a forum calling me stupid and telling me im missing the point or well-respected people in the gaming community like Yahtzee/Moviebob/Graham Stark/Extra Credits and so on.