Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[Joshua Hughes]

While I can agree with what you're trying to say, you've arrived at your conclusion without taking into account certain things.

This game is largely suffering from the Molyneux effect. Things were promised and simply not delivered. What's worse is things were promised and longtime fans of the series were directed to preorder or even buy collectors editions for 1+1/3 base game price while promises concerning the game's content were being made.

There's many quoted instances of lead designers saying things like "No, we will not be forcing every player of the game to get the same endings that everyone else gets," or "Yes, there will be about 16 endings to the game." These were official Bioware quotes on official pages with official links to buy DLC or preorder at or near the quotes.

When you promise your customers things and take their money at the same time, you cross the boundary between "art for art's sake" and "commissioned art."

Say a painter comes to your house and says "I'd like to paint your house like this," and expounds on how he's going to do it, and you say "fine, here's some money to get you started." You wait a week and come back and the house is painted. It looks pretty good but maybe he messed up the trim around the windows or forgot to paint the door the way he said he was going to or he used mauve instead of a darker shade of mauve. Is it really what he said he was going to do? Can you still justify paying him the money to paint the house?

That's really what we have here. The ending was total shit to be sure. It was horribly crafted and I can't see how the writer made it out of whatever community college he got his degree from, but if they had said absolutely nothing about the game before it was released, we probably wouldn't be seeing this kind of reaction right now.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?
Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

 

[Taunta]

Inconsistant opinions!

>Rips Deus Ex: HR (a generally linear, self contained game) a new one for halving a 'pick ur fate' style ending.

>Praises Mass Effect 3 (a game from a series renound for featureing choices with real outcomes) for doing the same thing only worse. Is the idea that you're proud Bioware was brave enough to completly screw up their game?

It's almost as if Yahtzee likes to alternate his viewpoints specifically to contrast with popular opinion and draw attention to himself.

Reading this should be helpful. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/9386-How-To-Talk-To-A-Critic-Assuming-You-Want-To]

Consider that his opinions a) entirely depend on context and b) like most people, are subject to change over time.

 

[H-a-v-o-k]

Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________



Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

 

[Denny Wallace]

Sorry to say I can't agree with Yahtzee. As previously stated, the industry and the community seem to operate on completely different planes of existence. There are media enthusiasts out there that have rightly stated that the ME universe is like that of Star Trek. Not just in fanfare but in scope, viability, and consistency. My feelings were: go ahead and kill Shepard, kill Tali, kill Garrus, kill everyone Shepard has ever known and loved if you like--just don't fuck with the universe. That ending killed the universe. It destroys the mass relays, it destroys the Citadel, and it cuts the player/viewer off from the survivors of the Reaper war and the events that follow it. The last five minutes of ME3 essentially end the ME universe. No amount of optional endings, heroes surviving, or Reapers defeating would overshadow the fact that everything I've come to love about this franchise is basically done with in the canon ending. I guess that makes me an unreasonable fanboy.

 

[JediMB]

Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Sadly, this seems to be the case. As much in gaming as it is in politics.

Belittle the suffering, and do your best to take away their options if you don't want said options for yourself.

 

[Realitycrash]

Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?
Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.
Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.

 

[Zagzag]

I won't be playing ME3. The Mass Effect series has always felt bland to me. And now, knowing how ti all ends, I have no reason to continue.

I think what is most disappointing though is that the ending isn't even original. Maybe some of you have heard of FreeSpace? In the last mission you and a squad of bombers go on a suicide mission and fight through hyperspace to stop the massive death-ship from reaching Earth and culminating in the destruction of said death-ship AND the jump nodes that link back to Earth. It ends and you're more of less certain the explosion kills everyone and the epilogue states how Earth is now unreachable - which strands both humans and Vasudans (and probably a few Shivans too) there with no way to return back home.

So, yeah. Too bad about that 'epic' ending.

Having played FS myself, many years ago, I was thinking this. Although I haven't been able to make this comparison to anyone in real life, since all my friends who have played Freespace don't want spoilers for ME3. You have to think, however that things in ME end up a lot worse than they did in FS, since the relay explosions have presumably wiped out most life in the galaxy, leaving us much worse off than if the reapers had killed all intelligent life themselves.

 

[JediMB]

Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________



Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

The thing is, here, that the indoctrination theory is just speculation. And if it's true, it instead leaves us with a non-ending where the battle for the Earth and the Citadel isn't over yet. Which leaves us with an incomplete game.

And it's a well-known theory, so I wouldn't say it's going over people's heads.

 

[Taunta]

anc[is]So EA gets to fuck with the writer's (btw, the head writer for ME1 was gone for ME3) story, but the fans don't?

The point is that it's Bioware's (not EA's) story, and not the fans' story. You're allowed to have your opinion of the story, you're even allowed to write fanfiction that changes the ending if you're displeased with it, but he's addressing anyone who feels entitled to a different ending. It's figuratively like reading a book, and then after finishing it crumpling it up and throwing it back at the author, yelling "No! You got it all wrong! Do it again!"

It's the author's story. They are entitled to end it with whatever message they want. Now if you don't feel entitled to a different ending, but you feel like the current one was poorly mishandled, that's an entirely different story.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?
Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.
Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.

I'm not saying they are paid off, I'll say that right now. I just think from a professional point they tend to see things more from the creators prospective then from a fans.

btw Moviebob also has a gaming show over on screwattack so he also plays games for a living as well XD

Also I'm not saying the ending should be changed (if you had read the rest of my first post you quoted)

I'm saying we were lied to as consumers, the 17 plus endings and the ABC ending that wasnt going to happen in fact did happen. Don't buy bioware is all I'm trying to say because they don't have the ability to right a good narrative anymore.

 

[Mahoshonen]

I feel that Yahtzee presented a coherent argument.

But even if I disagree with his conclusions about the theme of Mass Effect, I can definitely see the problems that arise when you start changing the endings-George Lucas (of all people!) made a very articulate speech about the dangers of changing art back in 1989 before congress (this was in response to the 'touching up' of Cassablanca).

Then he went and made the Special Editions, but that's a topic for a different thread.

On the other hand, the barn-door on changing the ending is already open-I wonder where everyone was when Fallout 3: Broken Steel was released.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

My problem wasn't the "rocks fall everyone dies" content of the ending but it was the premise that brought you there.

The idea that artificial life will inevitable exterminate all organic life is so broken and stupid that it boggles the mind. For one thing the DAMN REAPERS THEMSELVES are artificial life that isn't going around exterminating all organic life.

And humans are far more advanced than mosquitoes, annoyed by them occasionally, but aren't on a worldwide genocide campaign against them.

But also the idea that the ending depended on one last choice invalidated the rest of the choices for the series. At least in Kotor you had a light ending and a dark ending. And you couldn't just reload the last save to get the other.

Not that I was the biggest fan of the series but the ending just seemed like a tacked on clusterfuck.

 

[Limecake]

Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Listen, I have empathy for my fellow gamer for most things. But not this.

This whole ME3 ending thing was blown way way out of proportion. I can understand you are upset and saddened by the ending but that's where my empathy ends.

You can be dissatisfied with a game, you can be pissed all your questions weren't answered, you can be upset with bioware and even boycott future games. But you aren't entitled to tell the developers what to do.

If you don't like how they do business/make games/talk to customers/make videos/listen to music than you are fully within your right to not support them don't buy their products, don't visit their forums and don't hang onto their every word like it's a promise.

but don't buy their game and then complain you don't like it and they need to change it, it's asinine. I have a copy of alone in the dark but you don't see me petitioning Atari to take out the driving sections and replace it with something better.

not to mention the whole 'retake mass effect' movement couldn't be any more disorganized, other than 'we want a new ending' everyone involved seems to have a different idea of what should happen.

can we just move on now?

I love how every time someone speaks against this whole retake ME3 nonsense people just dismiss everything with 'Meh, s/he just doesn't get it'

because obviously the hatred for Mass Effect 3's ending must be unanimous across all gamer culture.

 

[Realitycrash]

Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?
Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.
Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.

I'm not saying they are paid off, I'll say that right now. I just think from a professional point they tend to see things more from the creators prospective then from a fans.

btw Moviebob also has a gaming show over on screwattack so he also plays games for a living as well XD

Also I'm not saying the ending should be changed (if you had read the rest of my first post you quoted)

I'm saying we were lied to as consumers, the 17 plus endings and the ABC ending that wasnt going to happen in fact did happen. Don't buy bioware is all I'm trying to say because they don't have the ability to right a good narrative anymore.

I can agree that the ending was probably eh...Not what was expected. I can also say that yes, it is shit, and that something else was "promised", but such a promise is never binding within the videogame-industry, and you can't take it at facevalue (shit, I have so many "promises" from Blizzard to quote..).
If people want to stop buying their games, that's fine with me. I'm holding out for..Uh..Let's see, I didn't play Bioshock 2, and probably won't play Bioshock 3. I hated Dragon Age 2 and I won't buy Dragon Age 3 if it is even remotely similar. I also never liked Mass Effect in any form..
Okey, I actually probably won't buy Bioware-games either, until they come up with a new IP, but that's because their sequels have sucked, not due to some form of boycott.

 

[MajoraPersona]

Well said.

Though some people are also apparently upset that they were promised a varied ending that reflected their choices. But the more I read about ME3, the more it seems like just that - a varied ending that reflects what the players have said and done throughout the game. And for a game-long ending to a series, it seems pretty fitting. As for the last 20-30 minutes of it: there aren't really a lot of options for dealing with mind-control robots from space that have already taken over half the galaxy.

 

[gyroc1]

Great, I've been driven into seeing the spoilers. I never played any of the Mass Effect games though.

I hear that great tragedies bring viewer's hopes up, only for hope to be crushed in the most devastating way during the conclusion. But as a person looking into making games, this whole fiasco is going to make me rethink about giving a multi-game series a bad ending.

 

[TheCaptain]

At this stage I think Bioware would be better off setting up a nice sandwich shop somewhere. Haven't played ME3 yet but I'm sure I'll get around to it. Biwoare fans (or ex-fans I guess) seem to be the absolute whiniest children I've ever met. It's not that they don't like it, it's that it's objectively bad with no redeeming qualities and (somehow) every Bioware game made since ME1 is the last Bioware game anyone is going to buy ever.

While there are many people who one-sidedly complain in the foulest language possible (and those people are certainly the loudest), I think there's been a very reasonable and appropriate debate going on for some time now. One point that's been made repeatedly is that up until the final ten minutes the game was thoroughly enjoyable.
Whatever comes of this: Worst case scenario, I'm still disappointed about how they offed Mass Effect, but I'll still consider buying future Bioware titles. There still a great game developer, even with EA breathing down their collective necks.

OT: I'm a bit disappointed here - I didn't expect Yahtzee to line up behind the artistic intregrity argument so easily. Didn't he himself propose once that in video game development, the beginning and the end should be completed upfront since these are the most important parts?

There's one point I can get behind though: If the ending wouldn't have been presented in that utterly loveless way, I still wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have gone so far as to demand an overhaul. If they had at least make an effort to show your choices mattered. Such as:

Spoiler

Personalizing the "life flashing before your eyes" scene by including different people depending on your actions, for example the squad member who was killed on Virmire or Shepards current love interest; if you saved the Geth, showing them helping to rebuild, if you saved the Quarian seeing them apply their liveship-setup to alliance carriers to avoid the Turians starving to death within a year, and if you have enough Crucible war assets having them start working on the first new mass relay. Just showing us that the fate of the galaxy could be different if we did really really well - or played a lot of multiplayer.

Also, I think he's still missing one other point. The fact that some overeager people set the fanbase up for disappointment with promises they couldn't live up to. Didn't think that was ok in Yahtzee's book, especially the three-buttons-three-endings-machine he didn't like so much in Deus Ex. But then again, I haven't heard of a critic who addressed that point before.

 

[Gigatoast]

General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.

Well you certainly haven't been looking very hard for explainations, there's one at the top of this page and probably about a hundred others on this site alone.

Also, the majority of the "retake" crowd don't hate Bioware or even the game itself, just the ending. So yes, I'm pretty confidant this can be considered you "not getting it".

 

[Ticonderoga117]

General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.

I disagree on your idea that there is no explanation of what "it" is.
"It" is: Bad writing, bad execution, inconsistency with the rest of the series, and the guys in charge (Casey Hudson and that lead writer guy whose name I currently forget) expressly stated that what we got was what we weren't supposed to get. The quotes have been thrown around here before so I'm not adding them here again.

Also, many of the arguments about this subject usually have explanations as to why.