Mass Effect 3 Is a Good Game.

Izzy1320

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I had promised myself not to do any more discussions of Mass Effect 3, but there is a disturbing trend out there that I have noticed, which made me want to write this thread. Before any flames or pitchforks or anything else are thrown my way, I want to say that I have played Mass Effect 3 through the end, and that I did not like the ending. With that out the way, the ending of the game has been discussed enough, and in so much detail that I'm pretty sure I could find a numbered list of every single argument that has been presented to date on either side. What I'm here to protest, however, is the somewhat disturbing number of people who say that the ending has completely ruined not only Mass Effect 3, but the entire series for them. There are some people out there who claim to be forever boycotting Bioware due to their 'hatred' of the ending. While I realize that some of these people are what the internet refers to as 'flamers' or 'trolls', I think that there are some out there who are actually serious about this point. Because I feel that I'm going to ramble on and on about this subject, I've decided to break it up into different subjects, and you can decide to click on any one you desire, or simply read them all, if you wish.

Now, I can understand that the ending was disliked because it didn't provide closure, and barely anything that could be considered a conclusion to the story. That being said, until those final minutes, I was utterly engrossed in Mass Effect 3, just as much so as I had been in both Mass Effect 1 and 2. Perhaps even more so. The series' developers and writers have obvious placed so much time and attention into making a science fictino world, while not entirely based off of new ideas, still stands as a world all it's own. If one were to sit and read every entry in the codex, as I imagine some have, it provides some hours of extra information about the world that Shepard and his/her crew inhabit.

Now, if the ending of a story is bad, does that necessarily negate the entire story? I don't think it does. The journey has always been the most important part of any story, not the conclusion. While a bad ending can certainly make us feel disappointed or let down, it does not change the fact that the story up until that point was one of the most enjoyable I have ever played. Mass Effect is one of the few series I've seen to marry shooter concepts and story concepts in a way that actually caters to both and makes each feel well used and comfortable, even if they took a little bit of trial and error to get it right (The first was a little heavy on story elements, and the combat admittedly suffered for it).

Mass Effect is a game, and one of the ways we judge games is how well it plays. Now, I am the first to admit that the first Mass Effect was a little clunky in the way it handled combat and exploration, and I do feel that the Mako could have been handled a little better, gameplay wise. That being said, I also missed the open feeling of exploration that the Mako brought to the gameplay in Mass Effect 2 and 3, but they did make up for it with a much larger variety of locations. The combat, however, was thoroughly enjoyable in both the second and third games. The changes to the combat system made it more responsive, and, in essence, more enjoyable. I also applauded the change in the inventory system, which was oversized and complicated in the first Mass Effect, a relic of the RPG systems still inherent within the game itself. By Mass Effect 2, however, I feel that Bioware had a much better system for the inventory, and a more realistic one, rather than carrying hundreds of tons worth of items in an inventory.

All of the changes made in Mass Effect 2 were arguably for the better, and most of them were carried on into Mass Effect 3, with some more smoothing and tweaks that made the playing of the game even more enjoyable. The further focus on the cover mechanics, an increased look at the weapon systems in the game, and more attention paid to the powers and abilities gained by leveling made it an extremely fun experience overall. The dialogue system, first introduced in Mass Effect, and made more interactive in Mass Effect 2 through the use of interrupts was, to my mind, just as integral to the game experience in the third game as it was in the first two (Note: Still not including the ending in this). I don't understand how any person could find fault with the gameplay of the third game.

Now, I felt that this could be adequately explained by content that I've written before, so...

Mass Effect to me is special, because it not only provides a tight, clean, and utterly unique science fiction experience, but because it honestly makes you care about the individuals within that universe. Through your interactions with the people and races in the Milky Way galaxy, you and your Shepard become invested, in one way or another, in the world and the characters that inhabit it. I became so enamored of the shipmates and friends that Shepard met and gathered on his travels that many of the moments in the game still stay with me. I wonder how many of us can still remember the first time we met Wrex, or Garrus. Ashley, Kaiden, Liara, Tali'Zorah. These are names that still strike at me, because of the choices I made in their evolvement as characters in a story that spans hours upon hours of gameplay.

Mass Effect has been one of a very small number of games that truly encourages us to not always imagine the big picture, but to look back at the smaller details, the tiny stories within the vast epic that flush out the character of the world itself. The constant financial machinations of the Volus, The horrors that the Krogan suffered through the genophage, or the difficult decisions that Salarians had to make. Even events before the series found importance, the First Contact war between Turians and Humans leaving a lingering animosity between the two species, a cold civility.

In this view of retrospective, Mass Effect 2 drove gamers even deeper into the lore of the galaxy. We were introduced to the seedy, exciting underbelly of the stars, away from the bright lights and flowing water of the citadel, to the dangerous apartments and nightclubs on Omega. Afterlife is still (to my mind) one of the best clubs/bars ever found in a video game, and it also provided a new face, the dangerous Asari Aria T'loak. Although a vague and mysterious individual, the few small pieces of information that Shepard discovers about her past paint the portrait of a life lived on the edge, far removed from the bright, civilized image of Asari portrayed by the individuals in Mass Effect 1.

The Krogans were fleshed out as well, their barren, dusty world of Tuchanka brought to life with history and desperation, the krogans having destroyed their own world with nuclear war. There, if the proper decisions were made in the first Mass Effect, we were reunited with Wrex, who was actually one of my favorite characters from the first game.

As Mass Effect 2 brought us back to the old connections we had formed in the first game, it also brought forth new ones, and gave us the opportunity to invest as much, if not more, in them. The 'perfect' Miranda, focused on her work and her responsibilties in Cerberus. Jacob, whose doubts colored his relations with the organization he worked for. Mordin, the brilliant and loquacious Salarian, who had lived a complicated life before arriving on the Normandy, involved in a restructuring of the Genophage. Jack, the cold and dangerous biotic experiment, whose past hid more than she was willing to reveal to most people. The list goes on with Samara, Thane, Grunt and Legion, as well.

Throughout my playthrough of Mass Effect 3, I found myself easily slipping back into the world and characters of the game. (Effectively, massive Spoilers follow hereafter, but I'm not done yet, sorry)

The choices I had made in the past two games all came back to follow me through the climactic story of the third, characters that I had met, shipmates that had followed me, friends that I had made. They lived, they laughed, they drank, and some of them died (RIP Mordin Solus, hero of the krogan people, and Legion, the first Geth to truly develop individuality, Kal'Reegar, the Quarian who saved Turians by repairing their communications under fire, and many more), while Shepard raced through the universe, trying desperately to recruit further help for the war back home. I felt deeper connections to the characters than ever before, desparate because of their plight, and what little they could do about it as individuals. Garrus, pulled into Turian military matters, forced to make decisions that could save or doom his entire planet. Tali, placed in a position of power that practically gave her power over the Entire Migrant fleet, the decisions that she made echoing throughout Quarian history. Liara, watching the destruction of her homeworld, Thessia. At the same time, the player stopped and grabbed at what small victories they could find. The individuality of EDI, as she pursued deeper understandings of sentience, what romance actually meant. James Vega's new outlook on the series providing a viewpoint completely different from the other members of the crew. Even meeting old crewmembers like Grunt, Samara, Thane, and Jack were small victories in their own right, a reckoning back to decisions that had saved them.

All of the decisions made throughout the series felt important, like I had actually done something right, saving Maelon's data so that the genophage cure could be completed, Letting the Geth rewrite themselves and find their own individuality, working together with the Quarians for the first time since their creation. Turians and Krogan setting aside their old differences to join together against a much larger and more dangerous threat. I was proud that I had brought the full force of the galaxy to bear on the Reaper fleet, confident that I could stop them, with my full bar of War Assets, so painstakingly filled and padded with every detail I could find, even investing time in the multiplayer (which actually works quite well, despite my initial hesitations at first hearing about it.) so that I could boost my galactic readiness to full. Armed with the might of the galaxy, I set forth to prove once and for all that the organic beings of the galaxy would not be forced to relive the cycle of processing any more.

And then, as we all know, came the ending. But that, as mentioned, has already been discussed.

I believe that Mass Effect 3 is still a great game, no matter what the ending might hold, because of the content that it holds within it. The characters, the world, the gameplay, everything that has been filtered through the first two games and continues to enrich and complete the experience that is, to me, definitively Mass Effect. I loved Mass Effect 1, I loved Mass Effect 2, and I love Mass Effect 3. I do not believe that this is the end of gaming as we know it, despite several journalists and forum posters claiming that to be so. I don't think that the ending of Mass Effect 3 is proof that Bioware is circling the game as a developer, in fact I find it quite ridiculous.

Now, I am by no means qualified to present any opinion at all, but this is simply my point of view on the matter. I'm not a journalist, I'm not majoring in any literary field. I'm a marine transportation major, really. I am, however, a gamer, and I feel that I had to present my point in the best way that I could, no matter how many/few people will actually read it.

Thank You
-Izzy
 

Erttheking

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I think that it's a good game too, I just think that the ending is horrible and taints the rest of the game
 

Loop Stricken

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Yes, it's a very good game. But the ending is so abysmal it ripples backwards through time and tarnishes all the many many hours of fun one has beforehand.
 

Izzy1320

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I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
 

Korten12

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Izzy1320 said:
I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
Because what's the point of playing the game again if you're going to get the same ending as someone who picked radically different choices.
 

DustyDrB

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Korten12 said:
Izzy1320 said:
I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
Because what's the point of playing the game again if you're going to get the same ending as someone who picked radically different choices.
Because you enjoy the games?
I've put over 20 playthroughs added up between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. That number will continue to rise, and I'll be replaying Mass Effect 3 just as much (I'll just quit when the big laser hits me from now on).
 

Zhukov

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I want you to imagine you are at a banquet.

However, this is not just any banquet. It is the banquet to end all banquets. It is the culmination of many banquets that have gone before. Laid out before you is a sumptuous feast, every dish and delicacy you can imagine, a vast, mouth-watering selection of old favourites and new flavours.

You eat.

It is good. It is fantastic. It is hard to imagine how it could be any better.

Then, as you sit back with a contented sigh and a full stomach, a small plate is placed before you. On that plate is a single small dollop of dog shit and a spoon.

That's the Mass Effect 3 experience.

Sure, the feast was fantastic, but guess which flavour will linger in your mouth when you think back on it. That's what people mean when they say that the whole thing was ruined.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Izzy1320 said:
I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
Mass Effect is a perfect example of a Shaggy Dog story. So while it may be interesting...even gripping...to listen to/play through, by the time you get to the agonizingly pointless ending you realize you've been duped and the entire thing has been a complete waste of time.

Whatever the case, I don't feel comfortable assigning the label of "good" or "great" to a story with an ending as catastrophically poor as Mass Effect. "Could have been great" is fine. "Fell just short" is appropriate. But you don't get to bedshit the most important part of your narrative and then claim excellence on the grounds of "at least the middle was good".
 

Izzy1320

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BloatedGuppy said:
ng...even gripping...to listen to/play through, by the time you get to the agonizingly pointless ending you realize you've been duped and the entire thing has been a complete waste of time.
I can't honestly agree with this. I have never felt that my playthrough of Mass Effect was a waste of time, and to use your own words, I wouldn't feel comfortable with saying so. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I don't feel that likening it to literal shit is saying much for either the people who spent so much time making the series or the people who spent so much time playing it. Sure, the ending wasn't written by the writing team, but rather two people in an office (or so I've been informed), but the rest of the game is just as well written as the rest of the series.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Izzy1320 said:
I can't honestly agree with this. I have never felt that my playthrough of Mass Effect was a waste of time, and to use your own words, I wouldn't feel comfortable with saying so. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I don't feel that likening it to literal shit is saying much for either the people who spent so much time making the series or the people who spent so much time playing it. Sure, the ending wasn't written by the writing team, but rather two people in an office (or so I've been informed), but the rest of the game is just as well written as the rest of the series.
Accolades are earned, not given in sympathy. If the ME3 team didn't want their ending, and retroactively their series, mocked and derided, it probably would have behooved them to put a little more care and thought into it. We're wandering into "Leave Brittany Alone" territory here.

And again, it doesn't matter how good your book, film, game, etc is. If you screw up your ending, you taint the entire narrative. It is the one part that is absolutely essential not to screw up on. ME's ending fails for game play reasons (lack of choice), narrative reasons (continuity errors, characters acting strangely, plot holes, abandoned themes), and aesthetic reasons (poor production values, vague/sloppy cinematic). It was a truly astonishing breakdown across the board. If they'd actively set out to sabotage it they couldn't have done much more damage to the IP than they did.
 

MarxonSR1

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Izzy1320 said:
I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
For me the ending is the most important part, it doesn't necessarily have to be the most amazing part, but it is the most important part to not mess up.
It's the last thing you're left with, and hopefully gives you closure, it colours everything you ever felt while playing the game. A good ending will make you ignore the iffy sections and a bad one will motivate you to pick out all the flaws.
It doesn't have to be spectacular, and you don't have to put the most effort into the ending over everything else. But it at least has to be okay.

Once I'd played the ending, playing through anything else felt pointless because everything culminated in that..... What's the point in everything you're doing leading up to the ending (which Mass Effect 3 spends the whole game emphasising), if the ending sucks?

Ending aside though, Mass Effect 3 would be a good game, though I thought Mass Effect 2 was better. A greater number of interesting squad-mates to spend my time talking to (especially with loyalty missions, which were fantastic) and side missions felt more interesting.
 

Sigma Castell

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if the ending is the only thing that gives a game worth, then i quit the game industry. i play games for the experience of palying, not to see what happenes at the end.

captcha: great unwashed

how very dare you
 

Smithburg

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Izzy1320 said:
I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
It's kinda like sex, it can be great, but if the climax gets fucked up, it ruins the whole experiance...
 

Tuesday Night Fever

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I love ME3 - until Harbinger's beam.

Does the ending ruin the game for me? No. I still had fun, and I still think the game as a whole was worth the money I spent on it.

It doesn't ruin the previous two games for me either, since they are both still fun to me.

What does get ruined though is the impact of the choices I made. Mass Effect was marketed as a series where my decisions from each game would make major changes on the story's outcome. This turned out to be almost completely false. So decisions that I used to agonize over, like whether to reprogram or destroy the Heretic Geth for example, now feel cheapened. Knowing that in the end it really doesn't matter what I decide to do about the Heretic Geth, the decision in ME2 isn't going to have the same impact that it used to have.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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It's a good game, sure. The problem is, Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are incredible games. ME3 is just good. It's a 7/10 at most no matter what idiotic reviews say. It wasn't just the ending that sucked. Everything was dumbed down. No exploration, less characters, dumber characters, less dialogue, worse visuals with amazingly dumbed down animations, narrow FOV, bad ending. Some "improvements" like new system for managing weapons is too shallow. All you had to do is have enough money to buy the upgraded version of your favorite gun. And how do you get money? You scan a system with one button to find an artifact that you overheard someone talk about on the Citadel. That's just laziness. And there aren't that many weapon mods to make the whole modification thing fun. If they had more time to make the game they could have made some planet exploration and use exploration as means to find upgrades and mods for weapons. More fun mods, not just shitty stat changing mods.
Then there's the new roll system that's mapped at the same button used for cover. Which makes things retarded especially on Insane where the tiniest mistake can cost you your life. And mistakes happen a lot with such a stupid control scheme. If you don't have enough buttons to do something then don't fuckin' do it. And of course, no holster function. Which kills the immersion completely for me. I'm running around a secure area pointing my gun at everything. It's kind of a big deal if both previous games allowed you to holster your weapon. Sounds like a minor thing, but it isn't. So don't pretend it is.

Although on the good side there's a shitload of very different guns this time around and the new weight system that lets you choose if you're going to play it more like a shooter or like a power/biotic user. That is a good system.
 

Gabanuka

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AS said before. I freaking love that game until the final mission, the whole final level just seemed "meh" to me, everything up to that point war Bioware at its best in my opinion.
 

Asita

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Izzy1320 said:
I suppose my real question is... how? What exactly makes the games unplayable now? I've seen the ending, I hate it...but the first thing I did was go back to mass effect 1 and start a brand new playthrough... I guess I just don't understand the reasoning here...
Because the ending pushes fatalism so far down your throat and so suddenly that you start to retch. In a nutshell, the ending did a spectacular job of robbing your choices of the impact the rest of the series promised they would have. No matter what you do: Villains dictate that you end the story on their terms, Mass Relays are destroyed, Victory Fleet trapped around a devestated planet, Normandy crashes on some unknown planet which they'll likely never get off of. Galactic Civilization dies with your final decision, and so too does the meat of your decisions...actually, I think I've made this argument somewhere before...ah, here it is.

In stories like this everything is building up to the ultimate payoff: The climax and its resolution, which should be the high point of the series. That's why plot diagrams show the climax at the peak. It is in that moment that everything you've been working towards is at its head, when all the cards are on the table and you're all in, waiting on that final card to be revealed. All conflicts at this point are at their worst, the battle is right at the gate and the audience's emotional investment is at its peak. Essentially, the climax and its aftermath are the most important parts of the story (which is hardly unknown in the industry), both because it represents the ultimate payoff that everything preceding it has been leading up to, and because it is the single moment that you will either captivate or alienate your audience, to say nothing of the fact that it effectively acts as the final impression your work leaves on the audience, which can and often does affect their overall opinion of the series.

In this case, there's a general perception of poor quality in the ending, which might have been forgivible if they'd included a denoument allowing for cathasis[footnote]of either the good or ill variety[/footnote] and closure, but that too is denied to the audience leaving them walking away from the series with a feeling of disappointment compounded by the outright nihilisitic undertones[footnote]Which is problematic in its own right, as that message runs in direct opposition to the general thrust of the series in both the in-universe and meta-sense, with the former being embodied by the series' mantra about unity triumphing over seemingly impossible odds (perhaps most triuphantly exhibited in the climax of Mass Effect 2, though it is repeatedly referenced throughout the games and acts as the main reason you assemble the Victory Fleet in the first place) and the latter embodied by the core gameplay mechanics of choice and consequence[/footnote] that effectively serves to ruin the very act of decision making throughout the series in the first place[footnote]Let's look at cause and effect
for a moment here:
You saved the Rachni in the first game? You do realize how much of a gamble that is, right? As the Turian on the council so succinctly put it, if you were wrong in your judgment then more than one generation will suffer for it...Nah, just kidding. There's no way for them to affect the rest of the galaxy after the Relays are destroyed, and they're probably going to all be dead within a year anyway. Sol can't support an intergalactic armada on its own. You reclaimed Rannoch for the Quarians? Congratulations, now they can finally return to their home and...oh wait, yeah, the Migrant Fleet's in the Sol system and Rannoch's in another arm of the galaxy...without the Relays no Quarian will ever see it again...especially considering that they and the Turians can't eat anything from our side of the galaxy...er...congratulations, they're screwed no matter what you did? Did you preserve the collector base? Well, rest assured that no matter what you did there, the results won't be any differnt in the end, as without the Omega-4 Relay nobody can even reach it. Incidentally, what happened to the council? Not that I care, I mean the relays where what allowed Galactic Civilization to exist in the first place. And what about that Genophage? Meh, either way it's not like they can affect the galaxy anymore anyways...
Effectively, the last few minutes of the game neuter the very thing that made Mass Effect's choice system so interesting: it removes the long-term ramifications of your actions[/footnote]. And unfortunately this conclusion colors the perception of the preceding events. This is hardly unheard of, mind you. How to put it...Have you ever seen the Sixth Sense? If yes, have you ever watched it again? If so, I expect your second viewing was very different from the first due to the way your knowledge of the ultimate reveal affected the way you viewed the scenes leading up to it. The same thing happens with Fight Club: You start looking at the movie differently because of what you know about the conclusion. Mind you, while these may have some of the clearest examples, the general sentiment applies to far more works than just these two. Applied in this case, what we see is the satisfaction of your initial choices being supplanted by the inevitable irrelevance they are given by the conclusion, ultimately (and unfortunately) making the use of a priorly beloved core gameplay mechanic feel hollow.
 

carpathic

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Adam Jensen said:
It's a good game, sure. The problem is, Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are incredible games. ME3 is just good. It's a 7/10 at most no matter what idiotic reviews say. It wasn't just the ending that sucked. Everything was dumbed down. No exploration, less characters, dumber characters, less dialogue, worse visuals with amazingly dumbed down animations, narrow FOV, bad ending. Some "improvements" like new system for managing weapons is too shallow. All you had to do is have enough money to buy the upgraded version of your favorite gun. And how do you get money? You scan a system with one button to find an artifact that you overheard someone talk about on the Citadel. That's just laziness. And there aren't that many weapon mods to make the whole modification thing fun. If they had more time to make the game they could have made some planet exploration and use exploration as means to find upgrades and mods for weapons. More fun mods, not just shitty stat changing mods.
Then there's the new roll system that's mapped at the same button used for cover. Which makes things retarded especially on Insane where the tiniest mistake can cost you your life. And mistakes happen a lot with such a stupid control scheme. If you don't have enough buttons to do something then don't fuckin' do it. And of course, no holster function. Which kills the immersion completely for me. I'm running around a secure area pointing my gun at everything. It's kind of a big deal if both previous games allowed you to holster your weapon. Sounds like a minor thing, but it isn't. So don't pretend it is.
You know, I really much preferred ME1 to ME2, and I have long thought ME3 would follow the same pattern. Seeing the main writer depart prior to release really helped put that idea to the forefront.

I want to believe this is Bioware playing games, that they really have amazing, free DLC up their sleeves that will erase this, but I honestly suspect that is not the case. Pretty much every step has been bungled on this release. We have the date pushed back, then the idiocy around the from ashes DLC (really, major parts ARE on the disc), the writer left, the company demeaning its fans, writers and journos doing the self-same. I can't see the payoff here. The only thing I suspect was that EA was doing a test of the "buy the ending you want" concept they have spoken about before. But why do this with an AAA game?

I just think Bioware screwed up, then when caught with their pants down denied, attacked and retreated into hiding.

I think they've damaged their brand, how permanently remains to be seen.