Mass Effect 3 Plot Holes (Explanation?)

[Sparrow]

There are far worse plot holes. The whole "well, mass relays blowing up would destroy everyone in the universe" thing still kind of gets me. Plus the whole fact that everyone is now stranded on earth. Go team!

According to Twitter, those holes have explanations now through the Extended Cut DLC so... wait and see, I guess. I still think the idea of releasing a game with an ending that makes no sense is stupid, but whatever. Can't complain if they're trying their best to fix it.

Indoctrination theory makes everyhting makes sense

without it...well if they are going to keep the ending at face value then I want somone from Bioware to actually explain it

none of this david lynch crap

Yeah, "IT WAS ALL A DREAM" really makes sense, especially when it's a giant handwave/middle finger to the audience.

it doesnt matter how incomprehensible it is...its ART and if you dont lovie/get it then your just a pleb....obviously

I would prefer if it was all a dream (getting hit by the beam and onwards)

hell in "destruction" you see shepard "waking up" on wht clearly isnt the citadel..how does anyone explain that?

and a whole bunch of other stuff

essentially Im saying indoctrination theory fixes everything

You realise you just said "the art I like is good, but the art you like is bad and you're stupid for liking it" right?

 

[Vault101]

snip?

it was a sarcastic/snide remark

I think when making somthing so nonsensical and incomprehensible..calling it "art" is not excuse

its a shitty ending...now matter how "brilliant" it is

 

[SajuukKhar]

There are far worse plot holes. The whole "well, mass relays blowing up would destroy everyone in the universe" thing still kind of gets me. Plus the whole fact that everyone is now stranded on earth. Go team!

the relays had their dark energy cores drained to make the pulse wave.

the difference is basically like the shell of an atom bomb breaking apart and an atom bomb blowing up.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

What they should have done is have Shepard tell The Catalyst to F off then yell "WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE"

And then have a giant robot appear out of nothing and just facepunch The reapers.

Also add in some "we will pierce through your methods and grab a hold of our own path" yelling in there.

because... no one has done that using the same plot..... right? /sarcasm

Bu-but that would have been a far superior ending

THROW LOGIC TO THE CURB AND DO THE IMPOSSIBLE, THATS HOW TEAM DAI GURREN SHEPARD ROLLS!! JUST WHO THE HELL DO THINK WE ARE??!

*ahem*
Every game should have an alternate Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann ending

I would like to point out the ending that the original writer of Mass Effect had planned. Remember that sun on halestrom? It was part of a dark energy crisis that was slowly building up over millions of years and would eventually destroy the milky way. The Reapers are trying to stop it, but they have failed to discover a way to. So they harvest the strongest races of the galaxy, pooling their combined intellect into trying to find a way to prevent the dark energy crisis. Because of Humanity's genetic diversity, the Human Reaper was the Reapers best hope for stopping the crisis, but you blew it up. The scene with the Catalyist was supposed to give you two choices once you had learned all of this.

A. Let the Reapers harvest Humanity and leave the fate of the galaxy in their hands

B. Destroy the Reapers and put your trust in the races of the Milky way and that they will be enough to stop the crisis.

...I have no idea why they binned this ending.

Why? Why would they get rid of that? That ending is actually fucking cool D:

I honestly wish they just went with the Reapers being destroyed in every ending (Apart from super low galactic readiness ones of course). Then just have an epilogue or something showing how Shepards decisions and interactions with the various species ended up. Did the Krogan wage war against the Citadel races again? Did the Rachni integrate peacefully into galactic society? Did the Turians manage to get those sticks out of their collective asses?

 

[Vault101]

going from Biowares FAQ on the matter nothings going to get resolved..really

all we can expect are a few "non voiced" cutscenes, or mabye some text

even if ti is text..it wont be the same..I remember when I finished ME2 for the 4th time I still couldnt keep from smiling...like FUCK YEAH! not here though

and why does a bleak ending make it more "artsy" ? a happyer ending (but still at a great cost) would have suited the ME universe just fine

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

The biggest thing for me, was the idea that there was a AI on board the Citadel which was responsible for creating the Reapers. That fact alone was okay, but it contradicted virtually the entire premise of ME1. If you recall, Saren needed to find the conduit to find a way onto the Citadel. This was to activate the Citadel as it could function as a gigantic Mass Relay and all of the Reapers would come pouring out, taking out the seat of galactic power. This was normally accomplished by sending a signal to the Keepers, but the Protheans in the previous cycle prevented this from happening.

So why couldn't this ancient AI do it? Was it utterly cut off from the systems? That sounds unlikely.

It may sound retarded, but I was looking at it VERY loosely similar to Neo from the Matrix.

They have all of these safe guards in place, but are fully aware that it is possible to overcome them. Organics have always had the option to end the cycle but need to overcome all of the things preventing them from doing so.

P.S. I've just finished a 12 hour shift, I'm knackered & having trouble forming sentences. Please forgive my shoddy interpretation of what makes a lot more sense in my head.

 

[SajuukKhar]

going from Biowares FAQ on the matter nothings going to get resolved..really

all we can expect are a few "non voiced" cutscenes, or mabye some text

even if ti is text..it wont be the same..I remember when I finished ME2 for the 4th time I still couldnt keep from smiling...like FUCK YEAH! not here though

and why does a bleak ending make it more "artsy" ? a happyer ending (but still at a great cost) would have suited the ME universe just fine

It was confirmed there is a playable section and new voice work.

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

The biggest plothole in the starchild's reasoning for me is that he himself is an AI. A synthethic. Fuck that guy seriously.

This is why the Emperor of Mankind Banned AI. Even more proof that it caused the Age of Strife.

 

[SajuukKhar]

This is why the Emperor of Mankind Banned AI.

I find it ironic he also stated he didn't want to be worshiped as a god yet the entire empire is now one giant religion to him.

 

[Darth Rahu]

If you notice the AI did not appear until the Crucible was connected to the Citadel, aka the Catalyst, which says that the AI was a joint creation of the Crucible and the Citadel. It didn't interfere with the events of Mass Effect 1 because it wasn't there to begin with. Also, the Crucible being made in the first place is meant to be a big effing deal, so the idea that the Cycle might finally end was arguably a failsafe in the Starchild's banks, hence the ability to guide the use of the Catalyst into the final choice. As for the organice versus synthetic thing, yeah that was a load of crap that I can't really buy into. As for why there could be no police state, Reapers thrive off of organic life. It's like farming crops to them, crops that can fight back and potentially kill one of you if you're not careful but crops nonetheless. Also, do you really think that kind of peace would last for very long? No one keeps baby in a cage, least of all humanity.

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

This is why the Emperor of Mankind Banned AI.

I find it ironic he also stated he didn't want to be worshiped as a god yet the entire empire is now one giant religion to him.

The worbearers think that he may have feared the very real Chaos Gods. He did after all cheat them.

 

[Vault101]

snip.

links?

Im taking a very cynical aproach here (not my usual style) to avoid even more dissapointment

I mean I dont dont want to be the angry fan that declares they wont be buying anymore of their games or angryly rages on message boards, I really did like ME3

 

[BreakfastMan]

going from Biowares FAQ on the matter nothings going to get resolved..really

all we can expect are a few "non voiced" cutscenes, or mabye some text

even if ti is text..it wont be the same..I remember when I finished ME2 for the 4th time I still couldnt keep from smiling...like FUCK YEAH! not here though

and why does a bleak ending make it more "artsy" ? a happyer ending (but still at a great cost) would have suited the ME universe just fine

It was confirmed there is a playable section and new voice work.

Source? It sounds cool and all, but I want to know where you are getting this info from.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip.

links?

Im taking a very cynical aproach here (not my usual style) to avoid even more dissapointment

I mean I dont dont want to be the angry fan that declares they wont be buying anymore of their games or angryly rages on message boards, I really did like ME3

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/11064799/1

JessicaMerizan:


[2012/04/05][17:32:47]

[Translate]: @MrBlazenGlazen yes but with some sacrifices depending on the end you chose. Ending is never perfect but Shep/crew reunited is possible Also, it seems like the new endings may hint that the relays will be rebuilt.
http://i.imgur.com/jIbVP.png

Also, new playable content!
http://i.imgur.com/3Ufyr.png

the relay system coming back is an apparent possbility

 

[Infernai]

THROW LOGIC TO THE CURB AND DO THE IMPOSSIBLE, THATS HOW TEAM DAI GURREN SHEPARD ROLLS!! JUST WHO THE HELL DO THINK WE ARE??!

*ahem*
Every game should have an alternate Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann ending

...*sigh* Goddamnit Blue.

Shepard: Don't Under-estimate us! My crew have stared down megalomaniacs through to suicide missions! So screw you're methods! We're making our own!
*cue super mega awesome scene of every war asset massing together from all the races as they surround harbinger as Shepard stands atop the normandy in a space-suit*
Tali: Even if we're trapped by the will of the universe
Liara: The dreams we leave behind will never fade!
Garrus: So Even if the odds are stacked against us..
Wrex: We'll rip them to shreds and then move on to you!
Shepard: We'll break down the paths you've set before us
Every single living crew-member across all three mass effect games including all major characters: And make our own!
Shepard: You've got a whole universe standing against you, so ask yourself this...
Every single person in the fleet plus shepard: WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?
*Cue Shepard with the aiming laser that he used back on Rannok aiming it at Harbinger and directing every single races ships fire while ground forces aim defensive lasers and fire as well*
The End.

I am sorry about that above insanity but..that's a Gurren Lagann style ending to this game. To further add to the mood play the song in this video from about 2:45 onwards while reading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlztMvvNkk

 

[Vault101]

snip.

links?

Im taking a very cynical aproach here (not my usual style) to avoid even more dissapointment

I mean I dont dont want to be the angry fan that declares they wont be buying anymore of their games or angryly rages on message boards, I really did like ME3

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/11064799/1

JessicaMerizan:


[2012/04/05][17:32:47]

[Translate]: @MrBlazenGlazen yes but with some sacrifices depending on the end you chose. Ending is never perfect but Shep/crew reunited is possible Also, it seems like the new endings may hint that the relays will be rebuilt.
http://i.imgur.com/jIbVP.png

Also, new playable content!
http://i.imgur.com/3Ufyr.png

the relay system coming back is an apparent possbility

thanks....

rebuilding mass relays implys the ending is to be taken at face value (calls into question indoctrination theory)

while it doesnt have me jumping for joy its somthing.........at least

 

[SajuukKhar]

...*sigh* Goddamnit Blue.

Shepard: Don't Under-estimate us! My crew have stared down megalomaniacs through to suicide missions! So screw you're methods! We're making our own!
*cue super mega awesome scene of every war asset massing together from all the races as they surround harbinger as Shepard stands atop the normandy in a space-suit*
Tali: Even if we're trapped by the will of the universe
Liara: The dreams we leave behind will never fade!
Garrus: So Even if the odds are stacked against us..
Wrex: We'll rip them to shreds and then move on to you!
Shepard: We'll break down the paths you've set before us
Every single living crew-member across all three mass effect games including all major characters: And make our own!
Shepard: You've got a whole universe standing against you, so ask yourself this...
Every single person in the fleet plus shepard: WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?
*Cue Shepard with the aiming laser that he used back on Rannok aiming it at Harbinger and directing every single races ships fire while ground forces aim defensive lasers and fire as well*
The End.

I am sorry about that above insanity but..that's a Gurren Lagann style ending to this game. To further add to the mood play the song in this video from about 2:45 onwards while reading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlztMvvNkk

Do the impossible, see the invisible
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVAsupiz1X8&feature=related
though this is probably a better song to use IMO.

<---hurries off to watch the Lagann-Hen movie again
Gods damn you Gainax, can you ever make something not epic?

 

[Distance_warrior]

I would like to point out that while the Geth are friendly the Quarians most certainly aren't and it is most likely the organics fault that synthetics wipe things out and in my mind it would always be pre-emptive self defence that is completely justifiable. Robots are reasonable at all times as the Geth proved while organics not so much as proved by the Quarians(they didn't even try negotiating they just assumed the Geth would hate them).

Another thing was is that it never explained what the catalyst was and the Protheans could have very well figured out how to interfere with the catalysts systems and that it was the catalyst alone that could activate the citadel.

I also believe that the reapers and the catalyst did have organic civilisations best interests at heart but in the warped sense that people tend to get when they are removed from the physical world where they assume that their values are more important than others because they are superior. I'm drawing this from the conversation on Virmire when seen with hindsight, mainly the "salvation through destruction" and "we are beyond your comprehension". In my mind this would cause the catalyst to value the way that species flourish when they get to the galactic stage without interference and they probably leave the mass relays because it only values their civilisation at the apex of its glory.

Edit: when you think about it if i was given the choice between letting humanity continue for a another couple hundred years before being destroyed entirely or storing the essence of what we are as a species in a giant metal squid thing to live on for all eternity I'd choose the squid thing that way humanity could never die.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

1. It is entirely possible that The Catalyst had some sort of safety switch in its programming that prevented it from opening the relay itself as a measure in the case it may go rouge and to prevent a early false start on the invasion

I don't know if I could buy this. VI's go rouge, AI's don't. They merely "change their minds", like humans do. I don't think an entity that believes itself to be smart enough to completely shape the entire galaxy would install such a limitation on itself, especially given it was so quick to alter course. Besides, why would it trust the reapers more than it would trust itself?

2. Making peace with the Geth does not prove anything for or against the catalyst's reasoning. There is no evidence that the peace will last, that the Geth wont go evil one day, that some future synthetic race could be reasoned with, that THOSE synthetics wont try to kill everything, so on and so on. All the Geth peace shows is that peace with the Geth was made because they had a common enemy to fight. Admittedly The Ctalyst provides no proof to to his point, but the games offer no proof against it eiather.

This I also have a problem with. EDI's entire arc was dedicated to the fact that she was an AI that was entirely benign and just wanted to get a long with everyone. The way to make the Geth have peace was not to force it upon them, but to force the Quarian's to just stop fucking shooting at them for 60 seconds and the Geth just handed them their planet back, with lots of free help. There's nothing in the entire ME universe that would suggest that AI's will always rebel against their creators, not in this cycle at least. The whole game, when discussing AI's, was all about how they were all life forms with equal rights, then all of a sudden "nope, bad guys that created the need for civilization to be wiped out every so often".

3. As explained in ME1 by vigil The Reapers harvest races and materials from worlds to keep themselves alive during their 50,000 year stasis. The amount of matierals they need to stay alive when in sleep mode is quite large.

Keeping the reapers constantly active as a police force would cause an exponential increase at the rate in which habitable worlds need to be drained for more resources. This exponential increase in resource harvesting would mean habitable worlds would become uninhabitable significantly faster and would eventually cause a war between Organics who want said resources and The Reapers who need them to keep going, which would require the Reapers kill mot organics anyways.

Not only that but leaving organics at a technological level were they could remake AI quikcly means the rate at which new AI is made is drastically increased, and as such the rate in which said AI race might beat The Reapers is also increased.

What they do is the most resource efficient method and causes he lowest probability of what they are trying to stop form happening.

This I have a little bit of an easier time swallowing. It makes a bit more sense at least. I still think that if they were able to keep the Mass Relays running 24/7 with no maintenance for millions of years, they should be able to do the same with the reapers. Why they needed organic life to create a police force is beyond me. Seemed well within their capability to design them without that need.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I don't know if I could buy this. VI's go rouge, AI's don't. They merely "change their minds", like humans do. I don't think an entity that believes itself to be smart enough to completely shape the entire galaxy would install such a limitation on itself, especially given it was so quick to alter course. Besides, why would it trust the reapers more than it would trust itself?

You are acting like the catalyst created itself.