Mass Effect 3's Ending Was Intended To Polarize

[Agayek]

Its just a bunch of people who have a sad that Shepard actually fucking dies at the end of her trilogy.

Sorry not everything is shit rainbows and vomit skittles in magic fairy wonderland, but sometimes shit just doesn't end that way.

That said; they ought to at least put something in to detail the outcome of the player's choices throughout the game. Other than that the endings were good; leave them alone.

No. Just no.

The problem with the ME3 endings is not that Shepard dies. The problem is threefold:

Spoiler

1) It makes absolutely no fucking sense. They finally give a reason for the creation of the cycle, and it's self-defeating logic, invalidated by the goals and motivations of the one who says it. In essence, it boils down to "In order to stop organics from making robots that kill them, I made robots that kill them first". If you can't see the glaring flaw in that logic, I'm not sure anything can help you.

2) Your choices up to that point, in a game centered around choices and consequences, are utterly dismissed, or at the very least it feels that way. They could easily solve this problem by having a proper epilogue where they touch on things like the Geth/Quarian future and if the peace (if it happened) holds, what the Krogan do if you cured the Genophage, how the Turians rebuild, what happens with the fleet now that all the Relays are gone, and what happens with your crew.

If they had a proper epilogue, it would be pretty solid in this regard, but as it is, all of your choices ultimately come down to what color space-magic you get in the final cutscene. And that is not acceptable for a series that has always been about choice.

3) The endings as they stand now go directly counter to the themes and tone of the entire series. Mass Effect has always been about the importance of self-determination, defiance of the inevitable and optimism in the face of Armageddon, even throughout the vast majority of ME3. The end of ME3 throws all of that out the window. Shepard suddenly believes that free will goes flying out the window, that synthetics will always inevitably rebel against their creators. It's presented as a fact, and Shepard behaves that way as well, despite the fact that you've spent three games fighting against the inevitability of Reaper victory.

Furthermore, all three options are incredibly pessimistic. There is no "make a better future". That's "Kill everything", "Mind rape everything", and "Forcibly transhumanize everything". None of the optimism that's been so prevalent throughout the series (and the pulp sci-fi it takes so much inspiration from) is even visible in the endings.

I've seen a number of arguments proporting that the endings are in fact good, but none of them have addressed these issues. I'd be okay with that, but all of these points are literary fact, not a matter of opinion. It's not that I like or don't like it, there's very basic literary/narrative flaws with the canon endings. No amount of opinion is going to change that.

 

[samaugsch]

The ending just didn't make any sense, the logic involved was just terrible...

Spoiler

Spoiler

So they can either get killed by synthetics or get killed by synthetics? Ok then.

 

[The Genius]

If it's all a plan to be fixed later with DLC, they are effectively admitting they intended to ship a game without an ending so they can make us pay for it later.

A dangerous precedent.

what?

assasins creed, call of duty, fear.... basically everything todays has a decisive lack of ending.

Mass Effect 3 is the end of a stated trilogy. As such, the ending is pretty important. AC and COD are now basically yearly episodes. Fear may be different but I can't speak to that as I've never played them. They are continuations of ongoing stories not a bookend. I'm sure when AC finally get to future Desmond's game, they won't cut the ending out on purpose to sell DLC.

Will they? Who knows? That's why selling ME3 with no true ending is dangerous. We accept this stuff, it will become business as usual.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

Really, I just have 1 question left in regards to the mass effect ending:

WHERE ARE MY GOD DAMNED PANTS?

Seriously, I had the sexy Blood Dragon armor when I started the zerg rush down to the reaper elevator, then poof, I get blown up and I've changed clothes.

Some other questions that bug me about the end sequence

Spoiler

-Why don't my biotics work?
-Why is half the text mirrored?
-Where did my medigel go?
-Where did my weapons go?
-Where did my squad go?
-Why do I have infinite ammo?
-Why is shooting The Illusive Man (aka TIM) considered "Renegade"... he's the freaking BAD GUY.
-Why does TIM's indoctrination work enough to make me shoot Anderson, but not strong enough to save his own life TIM.
-How did TIM go from being a normal-ish looking guy when we chatted 30 minutes prior, to freak child so quickly?
-How does Brittle-Bones Joker survive the plane crash with nary a scratch on him.
-What freaking planet did they end up on? The weird moons tell me it's not earth. But it's got an breathable atmosphere. Can't be too far from Earth, cuz I blew up the mass relays.
-How did my squadmates (Liara and Edi) get back onto the Normandy?

-And seriously, where are my damned pants? Did the reapers strip me down for the lulz while I was unconscious from being blow'd up?

So yeah... mark me down in the camp that's calling shenanigans on the whole ending sequence. In 6 months, we'll find out that it was all just a dream, or a test of indoctrination, or some other attempt at a saving throw ... which can be fixed with a new $10 DLC.

 

[Starke]

That's /with/ the relays. Straight-up FTL around the stars? I imagine that would take significantly longer than thirty years.

Bioware provided the basic figures, I'm just the one doing the math and allowing a generous twelve extra years for routing, repairs, degaussing, refueling and possible construction of supporting infrastructure. If you want to get really pessimistic, 50 years might be more realistic, which is still significantly less than the 300 years the Quarians have already spent wandering.

Also, it's probably worth pointing out that krogen and asari both have ridiculously long lifespans. So while fifty years is a long time for a turian or quarian, the krogen and asari survivors certainly aren't stranded by any stretch of the imagination. The salarian and vorcha survivors are screwed, though.

 

[Pat8u]

Im more pissed about the whole stargazer thing, It made it sound like it was all just a story that some guy was telling his son

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

Strong arm the creative process....

This is something I see a lot on the critic end, and it troubles me somewhat. They aren't making threats ala anon, they're asking for something they feel fits the story better. The word asking could easily be exchanged with pleading but they aren't attempting to force Bioware to do anything.

After reading this I don't believe that they intentionally made the ending to be bad to force players to buy more DLC. I have a feeling they just didn't know how stupid it sounded until someone outside the company read it to them. Spoilers kill any attempt to "playtest" the story, so there is really no way to see how the fans will react.

On a side note, I didn't mind Fallout 3's end of line style finish. Many players weren't however, so Bethesda responded accordingly. If Bioware does the same thing I'm sure they can gain at least a portion of their reputation back.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

The endings are not diverse.

I think you misread.

This is atrocious. I'm never going to buy a Bioware game again.

+1 Pirate
-1 Customer

If you pirate their games then that means you still have a desire to play them. What does this prove about their quality of writing?

 

[zefiris]

So, they tried to make a polarizing ending by intentionally doing a terrible job.

Okay. Very convincing.

Ten year old nephew: "I didn't fail the test, I got an E because I wanted to be polarizing!"

Sure, boy, sure.

 

[Mathak]

Right on, Dr. Solus.

 

[DioWallachia]

Aaaah yes, the classic "Tommy Wiseau Parody Retcon" of "it sucks because it was intended all along" (This phenomena is being debated for a rename to "Stephani Meyer Parody Retcon" for the upcoming excuse for the Twilight series

As Yathzee said before: "If you want to smear yourself in shit to make an ironic statement then good for you but you still smell like shit"

Does this excuse the fact that the ending was badly written or that looks suspiciously similar to Deus Ex 1 by having 3 endings but ALSO having the Deus Ex Human Revolution "EndingTron" where you press a button to have an ending?

Not only does it have three endings, but

Spoiler

The endings are almost the exact same. You have the Illuminati ending - control Reapers, dominate galaxy. You have the Tracer Tong ending - destroy all synthetic life, universe plunged into dark age, and you also have a Helios-esque ending whereby synthetic and organic life merges. It's actually almost like the Bioware team had just finished Deus Ex when they were writing the endings.

Yeah, that is why i said similar to Deus Ex 1 with the endings BUT the EXECUTION of the endings is the "EndingTron" of Deus Ex: Human Revolution

You know, the Bioware guys (aside from making an "Homage" to Star Wars with this game) remind me now of George Lucas when he talked about the Red Tails movie, where he said that HIS movie is the first to have an "all black man cast" in HISTORY. Or he is either the dumbest ************ in the galaxy or he is trying waaaaaaaaaaay to hard to make the shitty movie to stand out.

Acording to the capcha, my post its "two cents worth" T_T

 

[Murmillos]

You know, knowing the end motives of the Reapers, their process is just entirely way to complex.

You would think they would have all the mass relays communicate with each other (ultimately forwarding usage messages to a central location) and as soon as a relay was used, they would just send their entire fleet to that sector and wipe out the race in one location before they have a chance to even fight back (instead of letting them grow and span across 50+ sectors).

And if any relay stops communicating, they would send a small scout of reapers to that location to figure out why - which would 5-100 years, depending on how close the a major Mass Relay is to that system.

But then you wouldn't get the plot of ME and there wouldn't be a game to play. "Mass Effect" would be over shortly after discovering Charon was just a iced over Mass Relay.

 

[DioWallachia]

I think that Kain voices the opinion of all the fans very well at 1:46 to 1:57 :


"I have seen the beginning and the end of our story however the tale is crude and ill conceived. We must rewrite the ending....... you and I"

HOLY SHI!! LEGACY OF KAIN PREDICTED THIS MOMENT 9 YEARS AGO!!!111
Then again, when time travel is involved i guess it makes sense.

 

[DioWallachia]

The endings are not diverse.

I think you misread.

This is atrocious. I'm never going to buy a Bioware game again.

+1 Pirate
-1 Customer

If you pirate their games then that means you still have a desire to play them. What does this prove about their quality of writing?

But if you PAY them then you are encouraging more shitty writing

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

The endings are not diverse.

I think you misread.

This is atrocious. I'm never going to buy a Bioware game again.

+1 Pirate
-1 Customer

If you pirate their games then that means you still have a desire to play them. What does this prove about their quality of writing?

But if you PAY them then you are encouraging more shitty writing

If you PLAY their games you still feel their games are worth PLAYING. You don't pirate a game you don't want. Not playing them at all would be the only approach that would make sense.

"I'm playing your game because I hate the writing!" see what I mean?

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

"Yes, we intentionally slapped you in the face so you could have a memorable experience. You're welcome!"

Hudson is either very ignorant of the greviances most people have with the ending, or he is just really that arrogant.

If I ever meet him in person, I will kick him hard in the balls. That way he will be sure to remember our meeting forever.

 

[YodaUnleashed]

What I want and what a lot of other players want (I imagine) is some kind of shining ray of hope out of all that. Some indication that what we did actually mattered, that our emotional attachments and relationships to characters were ultimatley worth it, that our choices actually impacted it in some way. That character's sacrifices weren't in vain and that despite all this loss there still remains hope for the future.

I don't understand, isn't that what you get? I mean, at the very end, the game throws a deus ex machina at you and gives you three choices, two of those choices being prior ideas beforehand. The third is really the only new choice that you'd probably never considered and or imagined and is obviously the middle ground, the compromise as it were between destruction and domination. Despite what you might think, all your herculean efforts to bring the galaxy together did in a way result in you having these choices in the first place. The Catalyst itself says something along the lines of 'but you are here, my priorities have changed'. The very fact you reached it after all your struggles and are now presented with the three different ways to save the galaxy tells you that what you did was not in vain, that those who sacrificed themselves did so ultimately that you could reach here at the eleventh hour. Sure, you were always going to reach here because it's the end of the game, but if you look at it from a story perspective rather than purely a gaming experience, you realise that everything you achieved has led you here.

As for the more specific choices you made in the game, such decisions are ultimately too far-reaching into the future for the ending of Mass Effect 3 to wrap them up in a satisfying way. Better to leave them hanging for possible future explanation then try and shoe-horn them in at the end in a very half-assed and rushed way. Besides, how would you convincingly convey either the Quarians and Geth getting along or reverting to war or the Krogan peacefully breeding or aggressively expanding? These large events need a more thorough and detailed telling and don't really belong in the conclusion of Mass Effect 3; they seem to be issues best left up to the imagination, for now. Who knows, even with the Mass Relay's kaput, whose to say the races who have been using them for centuries or more wouldn't perhaps have some chance of recreating them and thus allowing a future game in the series (set considerably far in the future of the Mass Effect universe) to show the far-reaching ramifications of Commander Shephards choices in the first three games, through new eyes of course.

As for your hope for the future, the shining ray of light, doesn't that final cutscene satisfy? It infers to us that life did survive at least in some way and that Commander Sheperd's sacrifice was not in vain, even if some of the details have been lost to history. That's actually inferring more than just hope for the future, it is the future.


Regardless of whether you liked the ending or not and were pleased with it or not, these fans making online petitions demanding the ending be changed are acting ridiculously, and here's why...

'Hey Bioware, we don't like the creative decision you made, and have the right to make, as authors with an artistic vision, and we, self-entitled thinking fans, believe we deserve a better ending, what with all the time we've invested in this franchise, and so we are petitioning you to give us one, disregarding or ignoring how you guys (the games creators), feel the story should end. Disliking it is not enough, we demand you change and alter you're vision to suit our needs.'

Now let me argue in greater depth, why I think ME3's ending, far from being a terrible dissapointment, is actually a stroke of brilliance. Moral ambiguity has been a central part of the Mass Effect series without being plainly obvious. Most people think the actions and decisions we as players make via the paragon and renegade system is a good vs evil like mantra: a moral dualism that is very black and white. This is most certainly true but with ME3 we are now seeing that many of the decisions we might have made in ME2 or even ME1 such as saving the Rachni, re-writing the Geth heretics or retaining the Genophage data, can have seemingly unforeseeable and negative consequences. Thus, whilst the actions we make might seem black and white, the outcomes and consequences of many of those far-reaching decisions are anything but. The ending to Mass Effect 3 takes this idea to the extreme, giving us three choices to choose from, none of them being either simply right or wrong.

Ideally, we're meant to as players really struggle with the choice because there is seemingly no easy or 'right' answer (or for that matter any wrong answer). It is this moral ambiguity which I think makes Mass Effect 3's ending really stand out in a good way from most other long-spanning series' of any genre, because it is ambiguous, it isn't just Commander Shepherd defeating the Reapers and saving the day. Instead, it's unpredictable, unexpected, and seems to intentionally challenge how we might have perceived all the events leading up to the final moment. Sure, you might validly criticise it for being tonally inconsistent or lacking a greater sense of closure or being poorly executed with the copy and paste cut-scenes but personally I think you'd be overlooking what it does achieve very effectively, arguably even profoundly; that of suggesting that sometimes there is no easy, straightforward answer, and sometimes events do occur beyond our control, but we must choose nonetheless.

My main complaint with the ending is that they didn't give you a choice not to choose any of those presented, if for instance, you felt like you were being manipulated or if you felt that all of the choices were terrible and that refusing to accept any of them was actually the right choice, even if it did mean the destruction of all life and the continuation of the reaper cycle.

I mean, how earth-shattering (quite literally) would that have been, if after all you've been through, all you've committed to stopping the Reapers, that you're commander Shephard sees each choice as being as detestable as the other and would rather let the cycle continue, realising it is actually the 'right' choice. Of course, this could not be a canonical ending (unlike the other three which have the potential) because this would effectively re-write the Mass Effect universe meaning any future games could not include any of the races we already know. It would also be incredibly dark and bleak, even nihlistic and highly unsatisfying, but at least then you would still have the choice, which is what Mass Effect is all about right? Still, I understand why they didn't include it, assuming they considered it in the first place, probably because of its lack of canonicty viability and the fact you actually lose the fight as opposed to sort of win by changing the circumstances. Plus, it would probably grate for many people as being 'out of character' beyond mere divergence, but then characters are hardly fixed and can change given the right circumstances.

 

[DioWallachia]

The endings are not diverse.

I think you misread.

This is atrocious. I'm never going to buy a Bioware game again.

+1 Pirate
-1 Customer

If you pirate their games then that means you still have a desire to play them. What does this prove about their quality of writing?

But if you PAY them then you are encouraging more shitty writing

If you PLAY their games you still feel their games are worth PLAYING. You don't pirate a game you don't want. Not playing them at all would be the only approach that would make sense.

"I'm playing your game because I hate the writing!" see what I mean?

You don't notice the point of all this. Even something as Transformers 3 is worth NOT paying but seeing instead to take note of EVERYTHING that its wrong with the film industry and the possibility that someone actually was doing their job in X scene or the attention to detail for that scene gives a clue for something of later on that makes the thing make more sense. I dont think a human being could actually judge something by the surface and keep on living without feeling remorse at all.

Even i pirated Blood Omen 2 when i knew it was going to suck at the moment that the writer Amy Henning wasnt included in the production of that game but i had to go see it there is something worth my time and if the game had some piece of information that its CRUCIAL to understand wtf is going on (a question that you will keep asking in the Legacy of Kain series)

This concept is better explored in this TvTropes page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/FictionIdentityPostulate?from=Main.FictionIdentityPostulate

Same for Mass Effect 3, it may suck but there is still hope that something its worth saving even if the rest of the game may be 99% crap. Apparently people hate the way the endings feels like a rip off of Deus Ex 1 and Human Revolution combined and that was poorly set up but are fine with everything else.

Pirating makes sense to avoid giving them the chance of slacking on a competitive medium as gaming and if they want actual money then they had to do better than that.

Hell, i wont be surprised that people start to send 40$ to Bioware and a note that saids "i pirated your game because 1/3 of it sucks but i liked the 2/3 of the rest, so i send you 40$ in this mail instead of paying the full price of 60$ to prove that at least someone in your company still knows how to make video games properly"