Mass Effect 3's Ending Was Intended To Polarize
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Y'know, I find the whole "it's petulant to demand your money's worth" argument pretty interesting. How *in any way* is it ridiculous to demand that you actually get the product they advertised and you paid for? They've been promising for YEARS to deliver real payoff with this series. And instead of going out with a bang they opted to just peter out and stop, with the half assed promise that maybe if you pay extra later you'll get a finished game.McMousey said:I don't care how crappy the ending is. Demanding to change it may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.Grey Carter said:Mass Effect 3's Ending Was Intended To Polarize
Mass Effect 3's director didn't want the game to be forgettable, particularly the ending.
"Retake Mass Effect,"[/url] a movement asking for new, more palatable endings for the game, is using donations to popular nerdling charity Child's Play to make its point. Thus far it has just over 10,000 supporters who've collectively donated more than $27,000.
Permalink
This Post is probaby going to contain a few Spoilers, i will try to avoid them but yeah.
Now, i hope you enjoyed this Presentation, and now i ask you, does anybody notice a vast difference in simple behavior and motivation going from the first two Games of Mass Effect to its last? Because i sure can.
Okay lets look at the whole Series, not just ME3 but the whole Trilogy. Humans are the newcomers, we basicly just went past our own Solar System and are in fact the new kids on the block. So far, so good. Now the whole inherent Plot of ME1 is to make Shepard into a Spectre, for political Reasons, but that gets sidetracked when another Spectre goes crazy because he found a God-Machine. So the Goal shifts, stop that guy before he screws everyone over. Thats the cliffnotes version of it.
Now in the course of that Game, you come more or less, face to face with said God-Machine, its so utterly Alien to every concept you have that it can only be described as basicly a form of Demigod in its own right. It thinks differently, it basicly at best sees you as a Insect to be crushed, if it even notices you at all when it steps on you. It has its grand Plan going and you arent going to stop it, you can try, but ultimately you will fail. You do fail, the only Reason that the Reapers do NOT win at the end of ME1 is because that Sovereign doesnt recognize you or any Species as a Threat at all and overextends itself to "squash that fly" as it were. You win, but only because the God-Machine made a stupid Move. Sure it cant take on everyone at once but it can still screw you over royally. The kicker? Sovereign isnt the only one. Its just the only one that was there right now, his Buddies are still around.
ME2 starts, Harbinger is the new big Bad now, since you managed to alert the Galaxy to their Presence, even though nobody really believes you, and destroyed one of them, they are taking it a bit personally, Harbinger basicly goes out of his Way to specifically kill you, they underestimated you one, but they arent going to do it again. Of course since getting to you will take a bit, they need someone else to do it. Collectors. They are shadowy and enigmatic enough for it to work, even if they arent thralls of the Reapers by default, they probably would work for them. So they get sent to kill you, its personal Vengeance, you killed a Reaper, so they now want you dead, you arent a Threat to them anyway, but they are seeing that they cant underestimate every Insect as well, so they may as well take care of enough Problems as fast as possible. Human Colonies get abducted, the Collectors are basicly beginning with the harvesting Process ahead of time, take out a bit of the Competition before the Reapers arrive in full force. Now they arent planning on killing you, if you pay attention in the Game, Harbinger doesnt talk about eradicating Humans, or any Species, they want to "ascend" you, to lift you up, to improve you, at least thats what it sounds like. They arent just going to wipe the Galaxy clean every 50.000 Years, nope, they simply harvest all the Species at their peak of Power, and create a new Reaper, a new Demigod. Essentially the Reapers up to this Point are all the previous Species of the Galaxy, one for each Species every 50.000 Year Cycle. Its a living History Book. They are preventing your Race, or any Race, from dying out. Maybe the first Reaper was a Species that lived extremely long, and they decided to upgrade everyone and themselves, to gain immortality, whether you liked it or not. Of course being that advanced, they also became to slowly see themselves as Gods, after all, you could barely scratch one, even as advanced as you could be. Their whole Plan is not to destroy you, they are preserving you, making your Species immortal for all Time. They arent thinking like a organic Species anymore, they are thinking essentially like Gods, they think they are doing you a favor and any Discussion to the contrary of that they simply ignore, because they cant be wrong.
Now ME3 comes along, the Reapers go after Humans first. Why? Sure they have a bone to pick with Shepard for being annoying, but not the entire human species. In fact, what makes us so special? Nothing. The only real thing that makes us creepy to the other Species is that we think outside the box, adapt to challenges and generally organize in what to them is a utterly alien Idea. But thats it, they have no Reason to go after us first, especially not in full Force. Their usually modus operandi is getting the Citadel and taking every Mass Relay offline, preventing any reinforcements or mode of travel. Why go for Earth first, ignoring all the other crucial Steps that would normally garantuee victory? There is no Reason. So of course it bites them in the ass after all, everything that was established as a perfectly valid Strategy, as the sure-fire Way to win, was completely thrown overboard for a Species that basicly just made it out of their own System and is less of a threat than say the Asari, or the Turians. But it doesnt end there. We have spent 3 Years finding a Way to stop them, stopping their Allies and even preventing them from even returning at least twice, or at the very least slow them down. But no, the Weapon to destroy them? The one Option to win the War, has been in our own Backyard for all this Time. We probably found it when we found the Outpost, or did nobody bother to check? Maybe it was in another Outpost on Mars? So we find ancient remains of a dead civilization on Mars and we are NOT going to literally put the Planet on its head trying to find more? We'd normally risk destroying the Planet to find every little Scrap of Tech or anything remotely similar that has value to us. But nope, nobody noticed, or nobody mentioned, except for the one Moment where it turns out that we need it to win. Deus Ex Machina. But the Problem doesnt end there, after all, it turns out the reason the Reapers exist is because that synthetic Life always rebels against their creators, yes its valid, we have seen that happen with the Geth. But you can make Peace with them, in fact they want peace, they dont hold Grudges against the Quarians. So the brilliant Idea to stop that from happening, is to come around every 50.000 Years and kill every organic Species, making them into a Synthetic Lifeform to do it to the Species in the next 50.000 Years.
Now in the course of that Game, you come more or less, face to face with said God-Machine, its so utterly Alien to every concept you have that it can only be described as basicly a form of Demigod in its own right. It thinks differently, it basicly at best sees you as a Insect to be crushed, if it even notices you at all when it steps on you. It has its grand Plan going and you arent going to stop it, you can try, but ultimately you will fail. You do fail, the only Reason that the Reapers do NOT win at the end of ME1 is because that Sovereign doesnt recognize you or any Species as a Threat at all and overextends itself to "squash that fly" as it were. You win, but only because the God-Machine made a stupid Move. Sure it cant take on everyone at once but it can still screw you over royally. The kicker? Sovereign isnt the only one. Its just the only one that was there right now, his Buddies are still around.
ME2 starts, Harbinger is the new big Bad now, since you managed to alert the Galaxy to their Presence, even though nobody really believes you, and destroyed one of them, they are taking it a bit personally, Harbinger basicly goes out of his Way to specifically kill you, they underestimated you one, but they arent going to do it again. Of course since getting to you will take a bit, they need someone else to do it. Collectors. They are shadowy and enigmatic enough for it to work, even if they arent thralls of the Reapers by default, they probably would work for them. So they get sent to kill you, its personal Vengeance, you killed a Reaper, so they now want you dead, you arent a Threat to them anyway, but they are seeing that they cant underestimate every Insect as well, so they may as well take care of enough Problems as fast as possible. Human Colonies get abducted, the Collectors are basicly beginning with the harvesting Process ahead of time, take out a bit of the Competition before the Reapers arrive in full force. Now they arent planning on killing you, if you pay attention in the Game, Harbinger doesnt talk about eradicating Humans, or any Species, they want to "ascend" you, to lift you up, to improve you, at least thats what it sounds like. They arent just going to wipe the Galaxy clean every 50.000 Years, nope, they simply harvest all the Species at their peak of Power, and create a new Reaper, a new Demigod. Essentially the Reapers up to this Point are all the previous Species of the Galaxy, one for each Species every 50.000 Year Cycle. Its a living History Book. They are preventing your Race, or any Race, from dying out. Maybe the first Reaper was a Species that lived extremely long, and they decided to upgrade everyone and themselves, to gain immortality, whether you liked it or not. Of course being that advanced, they also became to slowly see themselves as Gods, after all, you could barely scratch one, even as advanced as you could be. Their whole Plan is not to destroy you, they are preserving you, making your Species immortal for all Time. They arent thinking like a organic Species anymore, they are thinking essentially like Gods, they think they are doing you a favor and any Discussion to the contrary of that they simply ignore, because they cant be wrong.
Now ME3 comes along, the Reapers go after Humans first. Why? Sure they have a bone to pick with Shepard for being annoying, but not the entire human species. In fact, what makes us so special? Nothing. The only real thing that makes us creepy to the other Species is that we think outside the box, adapt to challenges and generally organize in what to them is a utterly alien Idea. But thats it, they have no Reason to go after us first, especially not in full Force. Their usually modus operandi is getting the Citadel and taking every Mass Relay offline, preventing any reinforcements or mode of travel. Why go for Earth first, ignoring all the other crucial Steps that would normally garantuee victory? There is no Reason. So of course it bites them in the ass after all, everything that was established as a perfectly valid Strategy, as the sure-fire Way to win, was completely thrown overboard for a Species that basicly just made it out of their own System and is less of a threat than say the Asari, or the Turians. But it doesnt end there. We have spent 3 Years finding a Way to stop them, stopping their Allies and even preventing them from even returning at least twice, or at the very least slow them down. But no, the Weapon to destroy them? The one Option to win the War, has been in our own Backyard for all this Time. We probably found it when we found the Outpost, or did nobody bother to check? Maybe it was in another Outpost on Mars? So we find ancient remains of a dead civilization on Mars and we are NOT going to literally put the Planet on its head trying to find more? We'd normally risk destroying the Planet to find every little Scrap of Tech or anything remotely similar that has value to us. But nope, nobody noticed, or nobody mentioned, except for the one Moment where it turns out that we need it to win. Deus Ex Machina. But the Problem doesnt end there, after all, it turns out the reason the Reapers exist is because that synthetic Life always rebels against their creators, yes its valid, we have seen that happen with the Geth. But you can make Peace with them, in fact they want peace, they dont hold Grudges against the Quarians. So the brilliant Idea to stop that from happening, is to come around every 50.000 Years and kill every organic Species, making them into a Synthetic Lifeform to do it to the Species in the next 50.000 Years.
Now, i hope you enjoyed this Presentation, and now i ask you, does anybody notice a vast difference in simple behavior and motivation going from the first two Games of Mass Effect to its last? Because i sure can.
I haven't completed ME3 yet, but I've already been disappointed with the writing of the main story. Suddenly they find the plans to a super weapon that can destroy the Reapers within the first hour of gameplay?! I mean, come on! How hilariously contrived! Luckily the rest of the game writing/story has been absolutely superb so I can overlook the sloppy writing at the beginning.
I just don't think it's asking too much that you end an amazing series of games, with rich narratives and awesome characters, on a high note, and with closure.
I was hoping for a Dragon Age: Origins ending with the Reapers defeated and a big party and you get to talk to everyone afterwards and see what happened. Maybe even the slide show epilogue that explained what each of the characters went on to do in the universe now that the Reapers had finally been dealt with.
The endings they had make sense in context, but there had to be a better way to write them.
I just don't think it's too much to ask that after 3 games of trying to fight the Reapers you actually got to taste victory for a change.
The endings they had make sense in context, but there had to be a better way to write them.
I just don't think it's too much to ask that after 3 games of trying to fight the Reapers you actually got to taste victory for a change.
am i the only person that thought the reapers idea of saving organics from themselves was a good idea? and that there should be an ending where shepard lets the reapers succeed? even if it goes against everything we've been fighting for, shepard does know that the reapers have semi-good intentions.
Just got to the endings, and all I could think of was that it was "The Matrix" all over again.
Firstly, giving us a "choice machine" to pick any ending (not dissimilar from Human Revolution) was stupid. It negated all the choices made since ME1 till now. What difference did ANY choice made along the way make?
Secondly, they were all the bloody same ending. The only difference was the colour of the machine's discharge.
Third, and ending needs to show what happens to the world (galaxy in this case) after the results of the player's actions, what happens to the characters we've come to love and most importantly, what happens to the player's character (Shepard). None of them satisfyingly achieved any of those things.
Fourthly, none of the three choices were one I wanted to pick. Given three choices and all sucked.
In conclusion, the ending failed to deliver in every way. To conclude a long running trilogy where choices and actions spanning all three without taking any of it into account, forced to go along with the director's vision instead of what the story dictated, is sad. The "Story in a story part" after the credits was pointless and added zero substance. It was so ambiguous as to offer no idea of what happened.
As others have mentioned, the best thing BW can do now, to put something positive into a game that's "polarized" fans (and ex-fanboys) from day 1, is release an "alternate endings" pack that actually gives closure and a feeling of accomplishment.
Firstly, giving us a "choice machine" to pick any ending (not dissimilar from Human Revolution) was stupid. It negated all the choices made since ME1 till now. What difference did ANY choice made along the way make?
Secondly, they were all the bloody same ending. The only difference was the colour of the machine's discharge.
Third, and ending needs to show what happens to the world (galaxy in this case) after the results of the player's actions, what happens to the characters we've come to love and most importantly, what happens to the player's character (Shepard). None of them satisfyingly achieved any of those things.
Fourthly, none of the three choices were one I wanted to pick. Given three choices and all sucked.
In conclusion, the ending failed to deliver in every way. To conclude a long running trilogy where choices and actions spanning all three without taking any of it into account, forced to go along with the director's vision instead of what the story dictated, is sad. The "Story in a story part" after the credits was pointless and added zero substance. It was so ambiguous as to offer no idea of what happened.
As others have mentioned, the best thing BW can do now, to put something positive into a game that's "polarized" fans (and ex-fanboys) from day 1, is release an "alternate endings" pack that actually gives closure and a feeling of accomplishment.
I want to add my two cents!
MASSIVE spoilers incoming and I'm not doing the tag thing, so skip if you don't want spoilers. I figure though, that anyone posting here has already finished the game.
I saw all these posts and news articles about people being upset about the ending. I figured people were just overreacting like normal, complaining about some little detail. I am sad to say that I now agree with them.
I can handle darker endings. I didn't like Halo 3's ending with MC stuck in outer space, but I understood it and could accept it. I didn't even have a problem with the Crucible being alive and talking to Shepard. The way I took that is that the galaxy is still suffering from the first organic life's mistake in building machines and the war has simply continued for ages. Fine, I can accept that too.
What I cannot accept is that the universe is now broken. There is no sense of hope in those endings if you think about it. Shepard is dead in two of the three endings. After making all those promises to her crew, having Liara give her that gift and mention the little blue children...that's like dangling a carrot on a stick, then taking it away and smacking you with the stick. And what about all those soldiers? Wrex is not going to see his family now. Odds are he'll be dead long before any ship can cross that distance. The same can be said for ANY crew that was not at their home or were separated from loved ones. The Mass Effect relays are gone. Everyone is now stranded where they are. How do you think all those Turians, Asari, Krogan, Salarians, and Quarians are going to feel now? The Quarians just got their homeworld back, but now they'll never see it. The Krogan won't get to see their families. Garrus will never find out where his sister and father escaped to. In the third ending, even if Shepard is alive, she is trapped on Earth. She has no way of letting her crew know she made it, letting Liara know she made it. And what the hell was Joker doing anyway, fleeing the battle? He and the Normandy should have still been there, fighting. Instead, he's traveling through a relay and ends up stranding everyone on a planet billions of lightyears from who knows where. Earth is going to become a battleground because all those stranded races are going to need a place to live, and tensions are going to flare eventually.
The whole point of fighting the Reapers was to give people hope, to let them know that things will get back to normal. Instead, millions of souls are now separated forever. They may as well be dead.
So yes BioWare. I would like DLC 'patching' the ending. Even if you have to pull the whole cheap "It was just in her head" thing. Give me hope for the people I care about, not some generalization that life in the galaxy will continue.
MASSIVE spoilers incoming and I'm not doing the tag thing, so skip if you don't want spoilers. I figure though, that anyone posting here has already finished the game.
I saw all these posts and news articles about people being upset about the ending. I figured people were just overreacting like normal, complaining about some little detail. I am sad to say that I now agree with them.
I can handle darker endings. I didn't like Halo 3's ending with MC stuck in outer space, but I understood it and could accept it. I didn't even have a problem with the Crucible being alive and talking to Shepard. The way I took that is that the galaxy is still suffering from the first organic life's mistake in building machines and the war has simply continued for ages. Fine, I can accept that too.
What I cannot accept is that the universe is now broken. There is no sense of hope in those endings if you think about it. Shepard is dead in two of the three endings. After making all those promises to her crew, having Liara give her that gift and mention the little blue children...that's like dangling a carrot on a stick, then taking it away and smacking you with the stick. And what about all those soldiers? Wrex is not going to see his family now. Odds are he'll be dead long before any ship can cross that distance. The same can be said for ANY crew that was not at their home or were separated from loved ones. The Mass Effect relays are gone. Everyone is now stranded where they are. How do you think all those Turians, Asari, Krogan, Salarians, and Quarians are going to feel now? The Quarians just got their homeworld back, but now they'll never see it. The Krogan won't get to see their families. Garrus will never find out where his sister and father escaped to. In the third ending, even if Shepard is alive, she is trapped on Earth. She has no way of letting her crew know she made it, letting Liara know she made it. And what the hell was Joker doing anyway, fleeing the battle? He and the Normandy should have still been there, fighting. Instead, he's traveling through a relay and ends up stranding everyone on a planet billions of lightyears from who knows where. Earth is going to become a battleground because all those stranded races are going to need a place to live, and tensions are going to flare eventually.
The whole point of fighting the Reapers was to give people hope, to let them know that things will get back to normal. Instead, millions of souls are now separated forever. They may as well be dead.
So yes BioWare. I would like DLC 'patching' the ending. Even if you have to pull the whole cheap "It was just in her head" thing. Give me hope for the people I care about, not some generalization that life in the galaxy will continue.
T said:
At the same time, you believe for a second that EA wouldn't jump on this if they thought it was something they could make money on?Sexy Devil said:
Consider the Mass Effect games on PC for a moment. The first game had a piece of 3-4 hour DLC for free. You bought the game, you, in theory, got the DLC. They eventually released another five dollar bit, but basically that was it. Also, note that they player's actions in Bring Down the Sky gets directly referenced in 3, and if the player didn't play it, they get nothing.
Dragon Age included two pieces of DLC at launch, one was a party member, with plot implications and about 10 hours of content between them. And Shale does have plot implications. Purchasing Dragon Age new also got the player a code for armor that they could use in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2.
Mass Effect 2 included an ongoing pass for content at launch. This was for everyone who bought new. It was a new non-plot critical party member, some more content, about 45 minutes - 1 hour. They followed it up with another four pieces of paid DLC. In Mass Effect 3, failing to do any one of these (Zaeed, Kasumi, Overlord, Lair of the Shadow Broker, and Arrival) will result in player options being reduced.
Dragon Age 2's at launch DLC included a plot relevant character, who was only available if you preordered before a certain date, or paid $10. There was no project $10 DLC pack as before, just this. Also, DA2 added a cross game promotion, where you needed to buy Dead Space 2 to get unique armor in DA2. An inverse of DAO/ME2's Blood Dragon Armor.
Now, with Mass Effect 3, the day one DLC is locked to the collector's edition, which with DA2 was the same price, and just a preorder upgrade, but ME2's actually costs 30% more than the standard edition. The cross game promotional content is for Kingdoms of Amalur, but it isn't as offensive, as it's only the demo, not the full game. The project $10 entry is an online pass for a multiplayer system that uses microtransactions.
And how exactly is this not an escalating situation where being able to hold the "true" end of a game hostage behind another DLC paywall isn't behavior they (EA and or Bioware) would not engage in?
Hmm, an interesting counterpoint to this blanket dismissal of fan outrage over the ME3 endings and the constant diatribe stating gamers are 'entitled' more than any other demographic.
Let's be frank, video games demand more from their audience and consumers than any other form of medium simply because it requires the consumer's interaction with the product for it to be effective. Ignoring the financial cost of new merchandise, the ludicrous amount of control that the creator continues to exert over their product in the form of EULAs...games require more of their audience than films, television or books do.
It's a medium that demands more from it's audience, and yet the audience is expected to not have an expectation of demands from that creative process in return. Gamers give more to those creators, and yet the creators respond that they shouldn't be expected to give more. Of course you can argue that games require more investment than films or book, have longer development times, but in essence the objective of a game is to entertain, that's not different from a book or movie.
I think that yes, Gamers as a whole are more entitled than any other group, but let's be fair, they have a reason to expect more from the medium than film buffs or literary fans.
Just a random thought at reading that article.
Let's be frank, video games demand more from their audience and consumers than any other form of medium simply because it requires the consumer's interaction with the product for it to be effective. Ignoring the financial cost of new merchandise, the ludicrous amount of control that the creator continues to exert over their product in the form of EULAs...games require more of their audience than films, television or books do.
It's a medium that demands more from it's audience, and yet the audience is expected to not have an expectation of demands from that creative process in return. Gamers give more to those creators, and yet the creators respond that they shouldn't be expected to give more. Of course you can argue that games require more investment than films or book, have longer development times, but in essence the objective of a game is to entertain, that's not different from a book or movie.
I think that yes, Gamers as a whole are more entitled than any other group, but let's be fair, they have a reason to expect more from the medium than film buffs or literary fans.
Just a random thought at reading that article.
My ass.
I feel like I've legitimately heard this somewhere, it might be deja-vu but it seems utterly familiar. Nonetheless I think Bioware sold their game developing souls to the devil.
"It's scary to read how far people will go in defense of a company that sees them as walking money"
I'm at the point where I doubt all of this bs is EA's fault. Bioware says "You wanted a good game and ending? Nope we want YOU to discuss what actually happened for some stupid reason. It was the plan all along."
They didn't want to game to be forgettable, and to achieve that reasonable goal they made everyone want to forget it.
I would love to have seen that ending. One of the most interesting things about the Mass Effect games for me has always been exploring the alternative futures your actions can bring about: thats the reason so many people do paragon and renegade play throughs. Why not a somewhat futile, dark ending where Shepard agrees with the reapers and goes along with their plan? Its not the one I would choose as my canon ending, but it still wouldve been interesting to see.bullet_sandw1ch said:
There are so many ways the series could have ended: it would have been great to explorer even a small selection of them and decide which was the right one for me and my Shepard. As it were, none of the endings felt unique. Even the bad ending was exactly the same except for some inexplicable reason my lack of readiness caused the red beam of destruction to take out the Earth as well.
Why was there no option to ignore starchild, leave the citadel and continue to fight the war the old fashioned way? Its the option my Shepard would have taken. Sure it would have meant the continuation of a long and bloody war; with the possibility of annihilation at the end, but in some ways, it would have felt more hopeful than the ones we got.
Destroy Ending: Reapers are gone, relays are gone, galactic stability is gone, Shepard is gone, Normandy is stuck on a tropical planet with ALL THE WORLD IN THEIR HANDS YAAAY
Control Ending: Reapers are gone (OR ARE THEY DUN DUN DUNNNN), relays are gone, galactic stability is gone, Shepard is gone, Normandy is stuck on a tropical planet with ALL THE WORLD IN THEIR HANDS YAAAAY
Synthesis Ending: Reapers are gone, relays are gone, galactic stability is gone, Shepard is gone, Normandy is stuck on a tropical planet made out of equal parts computer circuitry and organic components with ALL THE WORLD IN THEIR HANDS YAAAAY
Now tell me, how the FUCK are these endings any different, aside from a minor difference in the ultimate fate of the Reapers AND ONLY the Reapers.
Control Ending: Reapers are gone (OR ARE THEY DUN DUN DUNNNN), relays are gone, galactic stability is gone, Shepard is gone, Normandy is stuck on a tropical planet with ALL THE WORLD IN THEIR HANDS YAAAAY
Synthesis Ending: Reapers are gone, relays are gone, galactic stability is gone, Shepard is gone, Normandy is stuck on a tropical planet made out of equal parts computer circuitry and organic components with ALL THE WORLD IN THEIR HANDS YAAAAY
Now tell me, how the FUCK are these endings any different, aside from a minor difference in the ultimate fate of the Reapers AND ONLY the Reapers.