Mass effect dev: "Stop thinking you're the producer."

[Harb]

Correction: it can be offered for free. But that is the choice of the company, not the consumer. If they offer something that was developed on its own schedule for free, they are voluntarily deciding to eat the cost because they are angling for some sort of trade-off.

Please remember that companies do not give us free stuff for no reason. There's always a business decision behind it. Do you really think Valve was giving out downloads of Portal for free out of the goodness of their hearts?

I can go as far to say it should've been provided for free to paying customers (and saying "Here is what we have for you that we planned to be part of the whole game, but due to authentication situation with Microsoft we had to pack up the game earlier. But we continued working on it and here it is, as part of the game.").

Sure companies ultimately decide about their products and I don't hold any grudge against them for making money (hell a company I work for also exists to make money). However, many DLC files were present on the discs which would suggest it was voice-acted / animated / textured / coded at the same time as the rest of the game (to minimize costs as you mentioned). How exactly does the Javic package differs from the rest of the game created at approximately the same time? Because they say so to cash more money?

I'm well aware of how companies and business work - each and every single time a company gives something for free they expect a return in a way. Sometimes they do so just to build up customers goodwill (Valve with free Team Fortress 2 updates is prime example) and receive benefits later (Manconomy is a huge success). If a company is making money while also alienating their own customers they are basically digging their own grave.

I'm not quite sure what situation with Portal you're talking about though...

Not to mention Bioware employees flat out lied about when the DLC was made. Which personally for me is simply unacceptable.

The indie purchases were still some of my favorites though. Limbo, Bastion, Cthulhu Saves the World... good stuff.

Oh yes, oooooh yes . May I suggest you keep a close eye on Starfarer? It has a potential to be fantastic.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

A few years ago, no one would have defended Day One DLC. What happened?

Simply put, we have grown and new gamers don't know any better. True the internet is large and massive but the people that even goes to these sites, are a small minority. For every one gamer here, there is probably 5 or 6 that don't care, they don't look up what they are buying, they just buy. My job site has tons of gamers yet only one other and me actually complained about this. The market is massive and mostly invisible.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

]Because fans shouldn't be exploited.

How can people be so snarky?

Day 1 DLC was used in neither a cruel or unjust manner.

It is far from exploitation.

It is unjust, especially when the DLC was being made during the same time as the game

 

[Harb]

Putting it on the disc was a dick move. I already pointed that out. But in the larger perspective, I'm not angry with them for charging for the DLC itself because those hours of work used to make it ain't free. Even if DLC is developed in overlap with the main game, it's still being designed by a separate team. And they gotta eat too.

I disagree with some of the ways they ask me to pay for DLC, not that they ask me to pay for it at all. I received my collector's edition as a gift because I lost my job. The person who bought it for me paid extra and get's the DLC unlocked at the start. Fair enough. The only part I think is unfair is that the data is already on the disc.

James Portnow and Daniel Floyd suggested in Extra Credits that if you keep locked optional material on the disc to be paid for later, that's fine. But you have to charge less for the game on the shelf.

At this point we can both start exchanging our opinions without any conclusion (no offense) since both our opinions are rather acceptable . I also have a pair of boxing gloves .

One last thing I will say (probably not last, but well...) about the cost. The game's price is set there to cover all company's expenses that happened during the development, starting with an early development and rough ideas to the release date. Whether it's water your coders drink or electricity computers use or ads you order to promote the title. It doesn't matter how the budget was used. It does however matter when the actual expense occured. Since the expense had been created before the game was released, the content should be included in total cost of the game (since it's fully priced AAA title).
If Bioware started to make DLC after the release to provide new experience and to keep people interested in the franchise I couldn't say a thing against it. Oh expansions, how I miss thee.

The way I see is that EA made an estimation that 50% (just a number here) of customers would buy the DLC. If they price the DLC $10 then voala, the revenue of a single copy is no longer $60 but $65. Extra $5 or a content that from the development point of view is no different to the rest of the game.

When Steam became compatible with Mac OS, Valve celebrated by offering a download of Portal to everyone who didn't already have it for free. This wasn't an act of charity, it was an incredibly shrewd marketing decision. It gives people an incentive to install Steam in the first place because they'll get a free critically acclaimed game. Since Portal's sales had already trailed off that loss in profit from the free downloads was negligible. Where it really gets sneaky though is in a simple psychological principle. Valve now has a whole bunch of new customers with only one game in their library. Even though they haven't technically purchased anything, they're going to feel a desire to commit to their "investment" and buy more games to fill out the library. Pure genius.

That's actually a clever marketing and I don't see anything wrong about it. People installed Steam, they got a game for free (which might have been their sole motivation to do so). Customers got a free copy of a game, Valve got a lot of potential customers. As you said, pure genius. It's a form of promotion as well as a way to attract new customers (which is what many companies struggle with).

I have heard it claimed by some that this is proof that Valve care about us. Debateable. What it is definitely proof of is that Valve are extremely good at separating us from our money. I know because that stunt is what got me to install Steam in the first place and what caused me to promptly drop about $40 on the Thanksgiving sale not long after. Well played, Valve.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you did exactly what Valve hoped you would and it all seems alright to me. I can imagine a lot of those people also purchased Portal 2 when it came out based on their experience with the first one. Very, very good marketing.
[sarcasm]Also Steam sales are evil. Evil, evil, evil! [/sarcasm]

 

[ResonanceSD]

Hahahaha Bioware is so bad at PR.

Bioware used to be great. Then they took an EA to the marketing department.

[sub]Oh god I can't believe I just said that *Cries*[/sub]

 

[Raika]

Thing is, just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean EVERYONE also doesn't like it... quite a lot are ok with DLC. So who should the devs be listening too? The ones boycotting the game, or the ones dropping money down for all those Space Marine skins?

I'd buy the hell out of those if people still played Space Marine.

I would if the lag and sound issues ever got sodding fixed.

In general, that game's matchmaking is kind of awful. Why are there no dedicated servers again?

Seriously, THQ. Just... why?

 

[Vibhor]

What about cars and leather interior then?

Same argument different product that follows up on your complaints.

Or are there more?

I do believe its the same result. obnoxious entitled children who decided "WE DESERVE EVERYTHING!"

No, this type of analogy never works
I could say the same thing you said only negatively(A car without wheels) and nobody would be right.
The way business model for video game works is very different than other products. No analogy you or I make would fit this situation.

 

[Vibhor]

What about cars and leather interior then?

Same argument different product that follows up on your complaints.

Or are there more?

I do believe its the same result. obnoxious entitled children who decided "WE DESERVE EVERYTHING!"

No, this type of analogy never works
I could say the same thing you said only negatively(A car without wheels) and nobody would be right.
The way business model for video game works is very different than other products. No analogy you or I make would fit this situation.

And false!

A car without wheels is not fit for purpose.

This game is fit for purpose without the dlc.

Fact is the cupcake analogy worked perfectly. You just want special pleading for this specific medium.

You really don't see the picture do you?
Fine, be that way. Its not like you not knowing better affects me.
We live in an age where consumer gets called entitled ass for expressing his complains with a product he bought with his own money. Capitalism is working just fine.

 

[Gamergeek25]

When I see people demanding that the ending is change to the way they want the end to be is when they do really cross over to the producer isle.

 

[Watcheroftrends]

I think it's damn stupid that people are complaining about the DLC. Bioware likely didn't go "Hey, we've got a full game, but we can probably get away with taking this part out of the main product for the sole purpose of selling it for more money seperately."

What most likely happened was they had a finished product ready to go into production. They had some creative ideas that hadn't been finished though. In the time between production and release, they realized they had a portion of content that fans would like. They finished it before release, so it was ready as day 1 DLC.

They didn't have to make that DLC at all. There's a lot of content that they likely worked on that didn't even make it into the game. It just happened that the DLC bit was polished and solid enough that they kept with it and it was finished in that awkward time between the game as code being finished and it actually being on store shelves.

"BUT THEY COULD HAVE RELEASED IT FOR FREE!"

Not if it wasn't part of the project's structured budget. Any additional work has to be compensated for. The reason the DLC costs money was simply a business decision, but not one made to simply grab for more money. The way the financing for production worked out probably required it be considered a seperate project by EA.

Timeline:

1. Bunch of ideas for game created
2. Ideas made into content
3. Content accumulates to a finished product, many ideas cut during this process, some remain
4. From Ashes content still not finished, can not be included during switch to physical disk production
5. Team is freed up from work on game now that it's moved into the physical production phase
6. From Ashes content finished by larger staff as core game is distrbuted in preparation for release
7. DLC is easier to distribute and thus launches with disk launch
8. Finacial structure requires DLC have it's own price seperate from initial product - not part of initial project and thus not legally compensated for

You have no reasonable idea of what it takes to release a video game if you still think Bioware just gouged its customers on this one. If they did, however, simply pull it from a 100% complete package and sell it seperately, then I'd be pissed. It's much more likely that it was literally not finished during the switch from coding to distribution.

 

[Valdus]

You have no reasonable idea of what it takes to release a video game..

But I'm sure you do...

When they send data to be certified (which they did in this case) they can only certify content on the disc, meaning only finished content is certified. They claimed that they made this DLC when that was hapenning. Finding out the files were on the disc prove that this is an outright lie and that it was finished during the production of the rest of the game.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8&feature=g-user-lik&context=G2cccbb4UCGXQYbcTJ33aalZCQikWcgeZgLWuk3VLKBLIDYlnNdfs

So yea. He is on the disc, and they still claim to not remove content for use as DLC? I would have figured you for a smarter man.

Yeah that video at no points say that the content wasn't on the disk. They said that once the core was done and it vent to certification.

"the content in "From Ashes" was developed by a seperate team (after the core game was finished)
And not the main game vent into certification"

He downright said that it wasn't finished until after it vent into certification. Tell me is it finished on the disk? I am sorry it isn't? there is no gotya moment then?

The content isn't on the disk. His place holder is there. So was Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2. That content wasn't finished until after launch. Its sensationalism and idiocy to link that video.

"we would never take stuff out of the core game and only have it as DLC"

And they never did. Fact is the game doesn't lose anything without the prothean. it is still a complete game that stands on it own merit.

Proof's better explained in the description. The fact that you can take a few lines off the code and then be able to play as the character from the DLC means that it's already in the disc to begin with.

Now I don't like calling people Biodrones unless necessary, but you're really making it hard for me not to call you one. Taking the scripts of the producers on an interview over someone who actually checked the game files in the disc, is facepalm inducing to say the least. Of course they're not going to admit the DLC is in the disc, that would be extremely stupid, plus it's going to make them look worse to the community that already hates them.

OT: I had one extremely huge problem with her statement. Particularly this line.

Players rant?they know nothing about this DLC that's coming out except its name.

Yeah, players usually don't have any idea about the DLC, except when, you know, Bioware/EA was actually dumb enough to leak the frickin' DLC. I think she never got the news about that one.