That would require patience. The gaming community at large has shown time after time they don't have that. As seen by their outrage over Online Pass and the inability to wait for "sales" and insisting instead pre-owned is super cheap.Whitbane said:
Mass effect dev: "Stop thinking you're the producer."
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
But we can still have our opinion that they should have done it differently. I dislike how they handled the ending (not necessarily the ideas, but the execution just didn't support it imo) and honestly I wish they did it differently and I AM entitled to my opinion. That doesn't mean I believe my words will change the ending, or even that Bioware making an alternate ending DLC would make any difference (rather, I think them changing the ending now would just further shoot themselves in the foot). But my opinion is not suddenly invalid because someone formerly with the company tells me to stfu.Draech said:
Except that in a way we do have a say in the developmental process. Both in terms of when companies focus test new games, but also when we criticize existing games and say what we did or didn't like about them. Then when a sequel comes along, either the developer listened to the fans, at least to the extent of determining what people didn't like, or they didn't and they just kept trudging on and made a bad sequel. Sure, maybe they could improve in a series without listening to their fans complaints at all, but it's unlikely.LastGreatBlasphemer said:
So they're left with two choices, they can either pay attention to what their fans are saying or they can watch as the sales taper off, if not crash entirely. But either way, fans absolutely do have the right to speak their mind about what they want in a game and vote with their wallets if games don't meet their expectations. What I think you're getting caught up on is that while fans have the right to say what they will and demand whatever they fancy at the time, developers can ignore them. Which is fine when making a brand new series if you have some grand vision, but a bit more dangerous when you start talking about sequels.
No, we as consumers don't have direct control over the development process, but I don't think anyone would ever argue that we do or that perhaps we even should (including the OP). But we most certainly have a voice, and a rather important one at that.
We as gamers can complain all we want about DLC - be it zero day or otherwise - or pre-oder bonuses or any other marketing ploy or incentive, but as long as a lot of people still buy the games, why would publishers stop doing business this way? Since we all know how well boycots fare, it seems futile to discuss these things.
The most simple solution to this on a personal level is, either buy the game if you can live with all the marketing crap, or don't, or buy the GotY edition later. I've been in the latter group for some time now; you get all or most of the content, the game's fully patched and (relatively) bug free and you get more game for your dollar/euro.
The most simple solution to this on a personal level is, either buy the game if you can live with all the marketing crap, or don't, or buy the GotY edition later. I've been in the latter group for some time now; you get all or most of the content, the game's fully patched and (relatively) bug free and you get more game for your dollar/euro.
Gamers tell mass effect dev to deal with it just as musicians and tv/movie producers do. Just because professional gaming critics don't have the balls to call you out on shoddy business practices and certain flaws in your products, doesn't mean the average gamer should be silent. The pointless whining isn't much use, but constructive criticism based on sound arguments should be welcomed by these guys.
A company that ignores (reasonable) feedback is not doing itself any favors, and there have been reasonable explanations for dislike of the endings amid the rage. That doesn't mean following exactly what the feedback asks for, but it does mean at least thinking over the different ideas.
This particular reason she makes: "There's no point in releasing DLC a year after your game has come out when most people have already sold your game back to GameStop three times," just makes no sense to me. I thought the POINT of having DLC releases after launch was to convince players that the game was worth keeping, but from that argument it really sounds like they're trying to squeeze as much money out of it as possible.
OK i just wanted to say this, from ashes sucks.
I'm comparing it with mass effect 2's Kasumi pack.
They both gave a character. The prothean is a lot more important story wise to the game, but Kasumi is much more likeable. Hell Zaeed is more likeable, the prothean is boring. The character's skills are pretty unimpressive too. Just some basic biotics with another power that's useless unless you specialize in biotics or micromanage Liara to hell.
They both gave a mission. Kasumi's mission was 10000x more interesting and longer than from ashes. from ashes basically involved finding an artifact, going into a few prothean flashbacks to figure out how to open the artifact, and then getting the prothean. There was nothing really special about the mission itself. The location was boring and you pretty much ran around the same small area for like 10-20 minutes, no special fights like the rooftop gunship fight with Kasumi, no special visuals (other than the short flashbacks).
Other than that, from ashes gave a new gun that's like the collector laser from the last game but much weaker and with infinite ammo. I didn't use it for long. Now i just give it to teammates because lasers.
Kasumi had more content and a more likeable character. It also cost less than from ashes, and you couldn't unlock Kasumi by fudging a bit of code in your install. (yes, the prothean is on the disk, his mission and his room isn't. make of that what you will).
I think what happened is they originally planned to include the prothean into the game, but couldn't finish it in due to constraints. When EA (yes, i still blame EA for everything)saw that they had an unfinished character, they said "hey, slap a quick lazy mission and a bit of story over that character and send it off for 10 bucks". So now we have a DLC with a boring mission and a character that should have something to do with the main story(he's a prothean, he should have something important), but doesn't.
Personally I'm not against things like project 10 dollar. I can understand that they would want to profit a bit on used game sales (if i buy physical copies, i buy new. I like to support the developer). I especially like it when they add extra incentive to new games (like the Cerberus network in ME2 with its free Zaeed)
If this was a "buy the game new" incentive, i wouldn't have a problem with it. Unless you bought the special edition, this DLC isn't worth it.
I'm comparing it with mass effect 2's Kasumi pack.
They both gave a character. The prothean is a lot more important story wise to the game, but Kasumi is much more likeable. Hell Zaeed is more likeable, the prothean is boring. The character's skills are pretty unimpressive too. Just some basic biotics with another power that's useless unless you specialize in biotics or micromanage Liara to hell.
They both gave a mission. Kasumi's mission was 10000x more interesting and longer than from ashes. from ashes basically involved finding an artifact, going into a few prothean flashbacks to figure out how to open the artifact, and then getting the prothean. There was nothing really special about the mission itself. The location was boring and you pretty much ran around the same small area for like 10-20 minutes, no special fights like the rooftop gunship fight with Kasumi, no special visuals (other than the short flashbacks).
Other than that, from ashes gave a new gun that's like the collector laser from the last game but much weaker and with infinite ammo. I didn't use it for long. Now i just give it to teammates because lasers.
Kasumi had more content and a more likeable character. It also cost less than from ashes, and you couldn't unlock Kasumi by fudging a bit of code in your install. (yes, the prothean is on the disk, his mission and his room isn't. make of that what you will).
I think what happened is they originally planned to include the prothean into the game, but couldn't finish it in due to constraints. When EA (yes, i still blame EA for everything)saw that they had an unfinished character, they said "hey, slap a quick lazy mission and a bit of story over that character and send it off for 10 bucks". So now we have a DLC with a boring mission and a character that should have something to do with the main story(he's a prothean, he should have something important), but doesn't.
Personally I'm not against things like project 10 dollar. I can understand that they would want to profit a bit on used game sales (if i buy physical copies, i buy new. I like to support the developer). I especially like it when they add extra incentive to new games (like the Cerberus network in ME2 with its free Zaeed)
If this was a "buy the game new" incentive, i wouldn't have a problem with it. Unless you bought the special edition, this DLC isn't worth it.
"Well, you can either pay us $10 for a character that already has textures, dialogs, powers and voice acting on the DVD and get only a mission and some appearance changes to your other team mates for that money, or you can fuck yourselves. Or unlock the content legally by editing game files. WHOOPS."distortedreality said:
It's basically as if Spielberg asked you $5 for the access to the scene where Vader attacks Palpatine.
IT'S YOUR CHOICE BRO.
No... That's actually very unrelated to what's happening to Bioware fans.Ethan Isaacs said:
George Lucas became condemned because he made horrible movies playing off of people's love for the originals, and then proceeded to simply "not get it" by releasing the re-mastered versions of the films adding in some things that went as far as to slowly dismantle the stories and impressions that he had created (As a disclaimer, I never got angry over the newer ones. I just didn't really care for them)
EA, using Bioware, cut out a good quantity of the game that they had created in order to gain a bigger profit. They literally put out about 4 or 5 dolls that you had to separately and individually buy in order to get some content with the characters. Day one DLC wasn't even that bad. It's still a shifty business aspect, but in this particular case, the day one DLC managed to include a character that was tied in as a representative for the central mystery of the game, something that every fan of the series is aware of.
In order for your comparison to work, it would be like George Lucas releasing the Phantom Menace in theater for the first time, only if you want to see the full thing you'd have to go out and buy 5 16 dollar action figures, show them to the guy giving you your ticket only for him to ask "If you pay an extra 5 bucks to get into the movie, we'll let you see the part where you find out that Luke is Leia's sister"
OT: As of right now, I'm glad that wasn't the response to the backlash that spawned off of the terrible endings. Because I still have hope that they'll hear everyone's complaints and gives us a free DLC with a "That was a dream, gotcha"
Feel like, I said. The dev is complaining about players who are acting like they can do a better job producing games than they can. What they fail to address is people do that sort of thing when they feel they aren't getting what they think they should be. This is mostly seen in politics, but there it can be argued that the people don't always like what they need. This different because this is a market which is supposed to hinge on publishers fulfilling the demands of those who spend money on their products. The only thing we "need" is what we tell them we need.Zachary Amaranth said:So do it. I look forward to playing your game.Lilani said:
In short, this isn't about people wanting to become game producers. This is about people wanting those producers to do what we ask rather than trying to screw us at every turn and then act like they're the victim in all of it. They seriously have the gall to put extra stuff on the disc and then want to make us pay for it? Yeah right. Where do you ever even see stuff like that? You don't buy a car that has leather seats already installed, but you have to pay the dealership extra to peel off the upper layer of cloth to get to them.
Uh, I thought one of the points behind DLC released later was to encourage people to NOT sell their games to gamestop because we might need the disk to play the next side story or epilogue or whatever.
Nice to see whining customers responded to by whiny artists. "whaaa, the people buying the product want some input on it instead of just letting me release whatever I want however I want to. WHAAAAAAAA" As someone that did take business courses, this is an attitude for disaster unless you own a fairly substancial monopoly on an essentail product. Your customers can always go elsewhere if they aren't happy and you'll be forced to change or go out of business anyway so it's best to start now. ME3 got away with a lot on it's name, something that won't happen with a new IP, or one like Dragon Age which has suffered some damage. (heck, expect flemmeth to be advertised but sold as add on content for DA3) You have to be thinking of your next game, and while dumb stunts might not keep people from buying the last chapter in a story, we'll look at your next new property with a lot of skepticism.
Nice to see whining customers responded to by whiny artists. "whaaa, the people buying the product want some input on it instead of just letting me release whatever I want however I want to. WHAAAAAAAA" As someone that did take business courses, this is an attitude for disaster unless you own a fairly substancial monopoly on an essentail product. Your customers can always go elsewhere if they aren't happy and you'll be forced to change or go out of business anyway so it's best to start now. ME3 got away with a lot on it's name, something that won't happen with a new IP, or one like Dragon Age which has suffered some damage. (heck, expect flemmeth to be advertised but sold as add on content for DA3) You have to be thinking of your next game, and while dumb stunts might not keep people from buying the last chapter in a story, we'll look at your next new property with a lot of skepticism.
I think you've all finally done it. You've finally made the word entitled as meaningless as epic fail and win. Time to take it out of my dictionary.
Also why won't people read the god damn source article? This is coming from an ex Bioware dev who is not was not involved in ME 3 but saying that does not invalidate her opinion and given the size of the DLC it makes it unlikely to be cut content. What more has me annoyed is laziness in other parts.
Also why won't people read the god damn source article? This is coming from an ex Bioware dev who is not was not involved in ME 3 but saying that does not invalidate her opinion and given the size of the DLC it makes it unlikely to be cut content. What more has me annoyed is laziness in other parts.
