Mass effect dev: "Stop thinking you're the producer."

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Shinigami214

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Whitbane said:
Wait a year or two and pick up the Ultimate Edition (or whatever the hell it is called) of Mass Effect 3 and get all the DLC free with it?

Would that work?
That's what I plan to do.

EA (because I think this is EA's doing and not Bioware's) has another think coming if it thinks it can persuade me to part with story-crucial DLC that costs roughly 1/3 (or 1/4 depending on which part of the world you're from) of the game's full price on the day of release.

I know that I'm just one person and withholding my money from EA won't drive them into bankruptcy. But I'll make my damned stand even if I'm the only one doing so.

On a related note:

How many here think that the fact that day-one DLC From Ashes release date was chosen because it is story-central enough that EA & Bioware correctly understood that players would deem it necessary to have the party member around for their first play through.

I make this point because the lovable dev quoted in the article claimed that 'it doesn't make sense to release DLC months after game release' - yet the Stolen Memory DLC which featured Kasumi had a good uptake - so her statement can't be 100% true.

I suspect that the real reason why From Ashes was specifically day-one release, and not delayed by a few months like Stolen Memory to head-off specifically this public consumer outcry, is that Bioware and EA are very aware how story-crucial the content is, and sought to capitalise on it.

For a developer that (in the past) prioritised gaming-experience and narrative excellence, Bioware has betrayed its roots in allowing EA to lead them down this road. They've lost many fans, including yours truly.

And if we follow that line of reasoning: if the From Ashes DLC was so story-crucial that it warranted a day-one release, then why wasn't it within the core game to begin with?
 

Gamergeek25

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JoesshittyOs said:
Ethan Isaacs said:
snip
What I am relating to is the self destruction method of the fans. Have you been to the bioware social forum? Going there and stating you enjoy the ending of mass effect 3 or something else, and you draw the fans anger. I have seen fans say the lore was broken over reloading animation. My argument was about how fans were trying to be the producers of mass effect.
 

Canadish

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Remember Kids.

Modding your own game is piracy. You don't own the disk you paid for. Bioware does.




edit: Chris Priestly is in charge of the Bioware forums.
 

Etherlad

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Ethan Isaacs said:
Have you been to the bioware social forum? Going there and stating you enjoy the ending of mass effect 3 or something else, and you draw the fans anger.
When you think that's bad, go to the nuts on MassEffect.Wikia.
There are comments like "Why would i want to play ME1 now that i know how terrible it all pans out in the end? It has become pointless now!" - Newsflash asshole: It's a stupid game it literally has no point at all except entertaining the customer.

Some felt entertained, some felt not.
 

Kahunaburger

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Ethan Isaacs said:
JoesshittyOs said:
Ethan Isaacs said:
snip
What I am relating to is the self destruction method of the fans. Have you been to the bioware social forum? Going there and stating you enjoy the ending of mass effect 3 or something else, and you draw the fans anger. I have seen fans say the lore was broken over reloading animation. My argument was about how fans were trying to be the producers of mass effect.
BSN backlash is hilarious atm. It's also interesting because its unclear what's causing it. Are we talking an "emperor has no clothes" type of scenario, insanely high expectations, or the result of Bioware's bad PR?
 

Bostur

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Kahunaburger said:
Here's something new to discuss: how valid is a storytelling medium when the stories are sold a la carte?
Thats a very condensed, and I believe relevant way of putting it.

People sometimes say "If you don't like the DLCs, don't buy them". A common issue for me is that I prefer the complete game, or the complete story as designed. But the presence of DLCs as some companies create them means that the concept of a complete product doesn't even exist. If the complete menu isn't on the card, avoiding the individual dishes won't help.

Thats the real issue with some types of DLCs from my perspective.
 

Kahunaburger

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Canadish said:
Remember Kids.

Modding your own game is piracy. You don't own the disk you paid for. Bioware does.




edit: Chris Priestly is in charge of the Bioware forums.
The really funny thing is that he seems to have backed down from that position after they realized they have no legal leg to stand on. Last post from CP I saw on this subject is that they're against it because they don't want people to damage their save files. Even for Bioware, that's a pretty terrible excuse.
 

Erttheking

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yeah yeah yeah, can we talk about the endings? You know, something that I actually CARE about.
 

Fishyash

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Since I didn't buy the game, partially due to the DLC, I only feel apathy towards this response really.

People are wasting their time complaining. I'm not against the complaints and boycott attempts at all, but it's rather dissapointing that people think the game is still worth playing despite all the complaints they are sending out. I believe it crosses the line of entitlement if you are going to buy/pirate (you jerk) a game that you have been flipping out about before it was released.

Honestly, people should just not buy the game. If that works, developers/publishers will be saying "Tell us please! We need you're your money! Why didn't you buy our game?"

Spamming twitter, constantly cussing Bioware and review bombing is beyond stupid though. I don't understand why people think it is a good idea to do something like that.
 

Bostur

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Kahunaburger said:
The really funny thing is that he seems to have backed down from that position after they realized they have no legal leg to stand on. Last post from CP I saw on this subject is that they're against it because they don't want people to damage their save files. Even for Bioware, that's a pretty terrible excuse.
Actually I thought that was a very fair service announcement. They probably figured that some people would try it regardless and if it messes up the save files, I think it's a nice thing to suggest people to save the game before they try it.
 

Canadish

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erttheking said:
yeah yeah yeah, can we talk about the endings? You know, something that I actually CARE about.
Okay, do you want the Red Light, the Blue Light or if you're feeling daring; the Green Light?


Right, all your characters are dead. Okay thanks for playing. We'll have the real ending for $10 in a few months! Buh bye now!
 

Redweaver

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Foolproof said:
Savagezion said:
Um, aren't we the demand in the market?
No, you're a group of loud overentitled fanboys making noise on the internet. The market didn't care, as can be demonstrated from the sales.
And this is why consumers are coming to despise corporations/the "free" market.
 

Aggieknight

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Canadish said:
erttheking said:
yeah yeah yeah, can we talk about the endings? You know, something that I actually CARE about.
Okay, do you want the Red Light, the Blue Light or if you're feeling daring; the Green Light?


Right, all your characters are dead. Okay thanks for playing. We'll have the real ending for $10 in a few months! Buh bye now!
Absolutely. My wife was even upset off at the way the game ended. Two days later I'm still pissed about it. Told all the peeps at work that are playing the game to just quit at...
charge the beam to the Citidel
and make up their own.
 

spectrenihlus

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Redweaver said:
Foolproof said:
Savagezion said:
Um, aren't we the demand in the market?
No, you're a group of loud overentitled fanboys making noise on the internet. The market didn't care, as can be demonstrated from the sales.
And this is why consumers are coming to despise corporations/the "free" market.
Oh trust me if they don't change it they will never sell me another game again.
 

Redweaver

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spectrenihlus said:
Redweaver said:
Foolproof said:
Savagezion said:
Um, aren't we the demand in the market?
No, you're a group of loud overentitled fanboys making noise on the internet. The market didn't care, as can be demonstrated from the sales.
And this is why consumers are coming to despise corporations/the "free" market.
Oh trust me if they don't change it they will never sell me another game again.
But they don't care. They already have the money and you're just a whiney, over-entitled fanboy.

Make a crappy product, have underhanded business practices, rake in tons of money and belittle and vilify the people who buy your product.

And apparently we're the problem. Go figure.
 

SciMal

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Saucycarpdog said:
http://kotaku.com/5892199/stop-thinking-youre-a-producer-former-mass-effect-designer-tells-gamers

Well, as the people who buy your games and pay for your salaries, I say we shouldn't be exploited.
Exploited? Exploited?

Who's forcing you to buy the game? Who's forcing you to play it instead of return it? Who's forcing you to pre-order it? You, that's who.

This is the way it works:

Gamers, particularly older or naive younger gamers, feel that there's some unspoken contract regarding game studios and gamers. Borne in the decades when gamers were a very small segment of modern social strati, and constantly berated/outcast for being the minority. The persecution forged a strong relationship between gamers and publishers/studios. Since gamers all had the common trait of persecution to find common ground on, they represented a significant market force early on. Studios spoiled gamers by modifying existing projects to better suit their target audience, and gamers utilized their collective buying power to ensure worthy projects were successful.

Then gaming culture grew. It grew so much that it stopped being a small subsection of culture. It became pretty mainstream. Even now most people know a handful of people who own an Xbox360 or PS3 to play the occasional game on. It's not taboo, there's no persecution, but the culture of persecution was still there. As the subculture evolved into a real population, the schism formed between the newly-enlisted who had never been heckled for wasting their lives playing games, and the grognards who remember having lan parties with their chums. The new gamers soon outnumbered the old ones, and publishers became more and more regulated by market forces than individuals. Profit became the priority, and the amount of heart and soul that went into a game had to be jammed into it by motivated studios.

The grognards weren't (and still aren't) happy about the switch. They still feel like gamers should be treated special by publishers/studios because they still think the "hardcore" gamers or the community of fans they connect with represent some significant portion or majority of the customers. They have grown fat off the delights of being catered to and backlash at any trends which obviously point out otherwise.

This is why you get gamers getting upset because a woman tells them they should stop telling studios what to do. They feel the contract, "Gamers before profit" akin to "bros before hoes", made under times of duress, still applies. The reality is that it never applied. Demographics changed, and those rebutting are in backlash mode. Each person bemoaning BioWare over the statement believes they have the capability (or at least 'gamers' in general have the capability) to be a Producer when the opposite is true. The vast majority of people in this thread, on these forums, and especially on BioWare's forums (which is only a cesspool of inbred thought these days) are completely incapable of being a Producer. That's reality, and if gamers are good at one thing above all else, it's ignoring reality.

What's worse is that all-too-many are turning into piggish louts who insist that the story is rubbish, or that BioWare has really gone down-hill ever since ___________________. Half the people on these forums can't tell you the difference between "you're" and "your" - yet, creative demigods they are, feel they could construct a superior product de novo. Again, the reality is that the vast majority cannot. It's one thing to spot a flaw in an existing piece of work, but it's a completely different thing to spot flaws in your own work. Believe me, I know.

Of course, the worst part of it all regarding the storyline kavetching is that it's not the fan's story, will never be the fan's story, and they should never believe otherwise. The authors of Mass Effect made the stories mostly for themselves; because they wanted to tell them. That fans feel entitled to criticizing the story, much less berating BioWare for not changing it (after their 'wonderful' suggestions on how to fix it, I'm sure) is purely ignorant. Imagine if JK Rowling had listened to her fans; Hermione and Harry would've bunked up by the end of the second book. An author is required to ignore their fans, otherwise the story THEY want to tell will never get told. It's the fan's responsibility to trust the author.

And if that author (or studio) starts producing stuff the fan doesn't like, it's the fan's responsibility not to buy the product. It's that simple. That's the fan's voice, and the only honest way of reviewing a product. I won't buy the next two sequels to SC2 because I don't feel SC1 was written well, and the story didn't captivate me. I bought ME3 because the previous two games did captivate me, and I've liked what I played so far.

That's all there is to it. If you feel you're entitled to anything, you're not. If you feel like you're being exploited; you're not. You just don't have the willpower to adhere to your own convictions. BioWare owes its fans effort to make a great game on its part; the form that effort takes will vary. The fans owe BioWare its honest feedback via purchases, and will only corrupt whatever relationship the influential individuals in BioWare have with the fans by calling foul over something as trivial as the OP's snarky attitude.

If you want something better, person who's currently criticizing the comment or ME3's story, DO IT YOURSELF. Until then, your best bargaining chip to get what you want is in your wallet. The best part? By telling BioWare what you think, you're saving $60. Win-win.
 

Lilani

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canadamus_prime said:
I would dearly love to see you try. (...and fail)
Edited the post now, because after three replies like this apparently my point wasn't made clear enough for everybody.
 

spectrenihlus

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Redweaver said:
spectrenihlus said:
Redweaver said:
Foolproof said:
Savagezion said:
Um, aren't we the demand in the market?
No, you're a group of loud overentitled fanboys making noise on the internet. The market didn't care, as can be demonstrated from the sales.
And this is why consumers are coming to despise corporations/the "free" market.
Oh trust me if they don't change it they will never sell me another game again.
But they don't care. They already have the money and you're just a whiney, over-entitled fanboy.

Make a crappy product, have underhanded business practices, rake in tons of money and belittle and vilify the people who buy your product.

And apparently we're the problem. Go figure.
if that's their plan then they are dead. Yea you can go a while with this bussiness practice but without returning customers you die.