'Massive' U.K. Study Finds No Link Between Gaming and Behavior

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Strazdas said:
Therumancer said:
I find some of this kind of funny actually, what country are you from? I almost lost it when your saying "America Is Obsessed with sex" to be honest we're generally considered prudes by the international community, as sexual content tends to receive very high ratings compared to other countries. We also have a lot of laws about nudity and the like, and it was a big deal a while ago when Texas finally lifted a law making sex toys (dildos, etc...) illegal if I remember.
I am from lithuania, you can see that on my profile.
America is obsessed with sex. They are so obsessed they need to act like prudes to pretend to not be obsessed. Our whore houses dont have so much sex as your colledges. Why? because sex isnt the end goal for us. Your sex oppression has created obsession. There are plenty of good articles about it but to be honest im kinda tired after a trip now so i wont search for links.
Its strange that you didnt knew that, its sort of an elephant in the room by now.


Global unity is a very long stretch goal. Its a good idea and i fully support it, but we cant just jump into it or we will end up like nazis who wanted "only their idea" to be the one covering the world. We could however start with united language. If we all could comunicate without language barrier it would be much easier to understand eachother. For example i often fail to express my real thoughts due to my inproper english knowledge. If whole world spoke the same language a lot of conflicts could be avoided.
I dont agree with "single morality" though. You can have united earth with united laws with alternative moralities. For example some people will think it is immoral to drink alcohol, and some do not. thats different moralities here. Does that mean if we got more of the first we should ban alcohol? Or could we allow the second one to get drunk as long as they do no damage to anyone? Its a primitive example, but you can see how different moralities can coexist.
As for your "dark remarks", this is exactly why you need to learn alternative moralities early on. If you know alternative exist and can understand their reasoning, you will be more rational about blind hate of anything you dont like. knowing alternative exist removes fundamentalism. and fundamentalism is what drives people that you describe.


Capcha: we like the moon
Well sure, Helium 3
Wait, what? Our colleges are massive rollicking sex orgies that put whorehouses to shame? Where do you get this impression from? Now yes, people have made movies joking around about things like that, but those movies are generally comedies that are trying to be funny by presenting a huge exaggeration.

Now if you wanted to be critical, you could point to teenage sex in the US in High Schools and such, and the problems that has caused, leading to a lot of arguments about sex education, and the distribution of condoms and such to teenagers as opposed to the standard practice of simply encouraging abstinence.

Of course given that the age of consent in Lithuania is only 14 apparently (http://www.evi.com/q/age_of_consent_lithuania) and you just talked about whorehouses like they operate legally, I don't see where you have much room to talk. By definition your country is far more sexually "free" and active than the US is likely to ever be. I won't make any moral judgements, but I'll be blunt in saying that simply propositioning a 14 year old in the US could get you thrown in jail and then put on a lifelong sex offender list... so uhh, no, the US isn't exactly a nation wide giant sex party, quite the opposite actually.

Typically comedies that portray the image of a more sexually "liberated" US are making fun of the entire system and trying to broadcast a message in the other direction in a lot of cases (but not always). At most being reflections of the idealogy of the creator, not what the US and it's laws are actually like.

Like everything though there *IS* an exception, in the US we have one particular state more or less set away for vice, and that's Nevada. Things like prostitution are legal in Nevada where it is outright banned in the other 49 states. Some cities like Las Vegas, known by the nickname "Sin City" here, can come close to the image that your suggesting, but college campuses and general day to day life? Not really. Simply buying adult entertainment can be tricky in the US due to needing special liscences to sell "X rated" movies, books, and video games, and most commercial areas are set up to directly forbid businesses specializing in that kind of thing from setting up. While every area DOES have some kind of "adult shop" around somewhere if you know where to look, sex is in general kept away from more general business dealings. You cannot for example go and buy an actual "adult film" at say Wal*Mart.

I suppose to an outsider things might seem a bit different because of the lengths Americans will occasionally go to in order to get this stuff, and most importantly get it quietly (at least from other Americans) to avoid attention and potential mockery. Porn still remains one thing that can be traded to the US pretty profitably if it can be done under the radar. Adult entertainment not being illegal, but as I said, it's a little more difficult to get than in a lot of other places.

-

As far as morality goes, at the end of the day the needs for societal stability are such that in the end we're going to need one global culture, set of laws, and behind that set of laws one standard of right and wrong. On some levels what Hitler wanted to do was more or less correct for what humanity needs, but some of the things he had going along with that, were absolutely insane.

In a more practical sense though, one needs to work within and accept the standards of society, if you allow each individual to decide what is right and wrong and act accordingly you cannot effectively regulate and maintain order, as you will inevitably see conflicts between both people who believe they are right. The simple question of property ownership, and whether someone has the right to own something, whether everything belongs to everyone, or whether everything belongs to the state and is simply being allowed to be used by the people at it's whim, is for example one
of the biggest issues facing the world today. That's what the conflicts between socialists, communists, and capitalists are all about in a nutshell. Within a society everyone needs to operate based on the same standards, and thus before entertaining anything else people been to be shown how to live within their society and operate according to what is expected of them. The point about a world unity however is that this means inevitably all the different cultures are going to need to dissolve into one, and that ultimately means fighting it out until there is only going to be ONE group into which everyone is brought. Ideally a lot of this is going to happen through the simple spread of ideas, but in the end there is going to be violence, mass murder, and potentially even genocide for the benefit of the collective humanity. What's more given global resource depletion and the increased need to unify and get off the planet to find more resources if nothing else, we don't exactly have a lot of time for humanity to be unified.

Of course this goes into some very dark places, and I am quite aware of how it sounds like many, many, tyrannical conquerors throughout history on a number of fundamental levels. The thing is that the world, and life, generally suck, the cost of any nessicary change in real life is going to be horrifying, unlike in fantasy stories where good and evil are clearly defined and everything is guaranteed to work out for everyone in the end, and everyone can live together peacefully. In short, in the crappy real world we live in, for anything to work out, the good guy basically has to be the villain, and any large, positive change is going to have to be paid for through excessive amounts of pain and misery, including the very survivial of the human race, for which such a world unity is ultimately going to be necessary.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

New member
Mar 2, 2011
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razer17 said:
In the end of the day, the media that we consume CAN have an effect on some people. Is GTA going to turn people into crazy murderers? Probably not. Certainly not psychologically normal people. But if they don't have any effect, why don't we just scrap game ratings and sell CoD straight to 5 year olds?
Because most people feel safer when following what's already there, instead of thinking on their own and doing actual parenting. Personally I'd let any 5 year old play those games if they wanted to, except most of them don't want to, they don't see it as fun. From my experience with violent films and games, the most likely result would be it'll turn them off violence completely, not get them addicted to it.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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Now, I have to ask this twice, once for each thread:

Shouldn't the presence of a pro violent video game study and an anti violent video game study side-by-side cause some sort of paradox, space distortion, or matter/anti-matter explosion?
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
8,407
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Therumancer said:
Strazdas said:
Wait, what? Our colleges are massive rollicking sex orgies that put whorehouses to shame? Where do you get this impression from? Now yes, people have made movies joking around about things like that, but those movies are generally comedies that are trying to be funny by presenting a huge exaggeration.

Now if you wanted to be critical, you could point to teenage sex in the US in High Schools and such, and the problems that has caused, leading to a lot of arguments about sex education, and the distribution of condoms and such to teenagers as opposed to the standard practice of simply encouraging abstinence.

Of course given that the age of consent in Lithuania is only 14 apparently (http://www.evi.com/q/age_of_consent_lithuania) and you just talked about whorehouses like they operate legally, I don't see where you have much room to talk. By definition your country is far more sexually "free" and active than the US is likely to ever be. I won't make any moral judgements, but I'll be blunt in saying that simply propositioning a 14 year old in the US could get you thrown in jail and then put on a lifelong sex offender list... so uhh, no, the US isn't exactly a nation wide giant sex party, quite the opposite actually.

Typically comedies that portray the image of a more sexually "liberated" US are making fun of the entire system and trying to broadcast a message in the other direction in a lot of cases (but not always). At most being reflections of the idealogy of the creator, not what the US and it's laws are actually like.

Like everything though there *IS* an exception, in the US we have one particular state more or less set away for vice, and that's Nevada. Things like prostitution are legal in Nevada where it is outright banned in the other 49 states. Some cities like Las Vegas, known by the nickname "Sin City" here, can come close to the image that your suggesting, but college campuses and general day to day life? Not really. Simply buying adult entertainment can be tricky in the US due to needing special liscences to sell "X rated" movies, books, and video games, and most commercial areas are set up to directly forbid businesses specializing in that kind of thing from setting up. While every area DOES have some kind of "adult shop" around somewhere if you know where to look, sex is in general kept away from more general business dealings. You cannot for example go and buy an actual "adult film" at say Wal*Mart.

I suppose to an outsider things might seem a bit different because of the lengths Americans will occasionally go to in order to get this stuff, and most importantly get it quietly (at least from other Americans) to avoid attention and potential mockery. Porn still remains one thing that can be traded to the US pretty profitably if it can be done under the radar. Adult entertainment not being illegal, but as I said, it's a little more difficult to get than in a lot of other places.

-

As far as morality goes, at the end of the day the needs for societal stability are such that in the end we're going to need one global culture, set of laws, and behind that set of laws one standard of right and wrong. On some levels what Hitler wanted to do was more or less correct for what humanity needs, but some of the things he had going along with that, were absolutely insane.

In a more practical sense though, one needs to work within and accept the standards of society, if you allow each individual to decide what is right and wrong and act accordingly you cannot effectively regulate and maintain order, as you will inevitably see conflicts between both people who believe they are right. The simple question of property ownership, and whether someone has the right to own something, whether everything belongs to everyone, or whether everything belongs to the state and is simply being allowed to be used by the people at it's whim, is for example one
of the biggest issues facing the world today. That's what the conflicts between socialists, communists, and capitalists are all about in a nutshell. Within a society everyone needs to operate based on the same standards, and thus before entertaining anything else people been to be shown how to live within their society and operate according to what is expected of them. The point about a world unity however is that this means inevitably all the different cultures are going to need to dissolve into one, and that ultimately means fighting it out until there is only going to be ONE group into which everyone is brought. Ideally a lot of this is going to happen through the simple spread of ideas, but in the end there is going to be violence, mass murder, and potentially even genocide for the benefit of the collective humanity. What's more given global resource depletion and the increased need to unify and get off the planet to find more resources if nothing else, we don't exactly have a lot of time for humanity to be unified.

Of course this goes into some very dark places, and I am quite aware of how it sounds like many, many, tyrannical conquerors throughout history on a number of fundamental levels. The thing is that the world, and life, generally suck, the cost of any nessicary change in real life is going to be horrifying, unlike in fantasy stories where good and evil are clearly defined and everything is guaranteed to work out for everyone in the end, and everyone can live together peacefully. In short, in the crappy real world we live in, for anything to work out, the good guy basically has to be the villain, and any large, positive change is going to have to be paid for through excessive amounts of pain and misery, including the very survivial of the human race, for which such a world unity is ultimately going to be necessary.
I made this deduction after looking up some data and talking to people in said coleldges. No hard evidence i know. But pretty much everyone know about americas obsessions.

The age of consent is technically at 14. However that includes concention, same age and parental guidence. the parents have to actually agree and be there for this to be legal. The actual age where a person is able to decide on its own to have sex without needing of parent permission is 18. Prostitution is illegal here sadly. being sex free and sex obsessed are different things. We are more free as far as sex goes, i agree. but we care much less about it. on the other hand sex is considered a ultimate "Act of rebellion" according to people i talked to. Here sex is just that - sex. nothing more nothing less.
USA produces more pornography than the rest of the world combined, so thats a very lucrative business right there.

See, as you yourself said, Hitler was "insane" from our perspective, but from perspective of people who followed him it was us that was the crazy ones. So yeah, in the end it may just be a numbers game where majority will outlaw the minority and we become homogenous robots.

Thats why we have concept of rights. Every person has a right to believe what is right or wrong for himself, however his right ends when that inflicts harm on another being. And it does not matter whether it is a nazi beating up a pacifist or the other way around. As long as you are not harming other people you can be a nazi. Standards are decided by majority. Thats really all there is. And laws and regulations are not static. They change and adapt to situation, and "one concept of right and wrong" will be nothing more than the same concept that "its more beneficial not to kill eachother" taken to more extreme notion.
I can understand where you are coming from when it comes to united nation. However i am arguing that we ca reach that without elimination of alternative morality, but by embracing it. Your way is tyrannical. Mine is liberal. Who is right only time will show.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Strazdas said:
I can understand where you are coming from when it comes to united nation. However i am arguing that we ca reach that without elimination of alternative morality, but by embracing it. Your way is tyrannical. Mine is liberal. Who is right only time will show.
True, we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens, if anything ever does in either of our lifetimes.

That said, I would point out that by definition any set of laws is going to be a "Tyranny" you've already agreed that a world unity is necessary and that is going to require everyone being unified under one set of laws and conduct.

To put this in a very real context, let's look at rape as an issue. Rape is wrong right? The person doing the attacking is a criminal? Well according to Islam and Islamic law that's not necessarily the case. We've had cases where women have been stoned to death for not marrying the guy who raped them (literally, it made global news at one point), and the whole concept of wifely duties. Now granted, not every Islamic might follow that legal or belief structure, but millions upon millions do within theocratic cultures. To say something even as basic as "rape is a crime" and make that a global law involves making moral judgements and then enforcing them "tyrannically". What's more in passing laws even that simple your probably going to wind up having to kill millions upon millions of people who are going to oppose you for spiritual, as opposed to rational, reasons as that is the basis for their beliefs, and they are just not going to surrender when they think that what amounts to their right engage in rape is a divinely mandated right.

The point I'm simply making is, how do you achieve a global unity while still remaining liberal? Even the most basic human rights are not someone everyone agrees on. I suppose you could say that "alternative morality is okay as long as it fits within certain guidelines" but then again that basically just amounts to making the basic rules rather broad,
at the end of the day any society, or civilization, requires tyranny to function for the sake of everyone, it's simply
a question of how far that tyranny goes and what it enforces.

The world basically sucks, but those are our eventual options, a global unity, which will ultimately involve a degree of tyranny by the standards of a lot of people around right now, or the complete and total death of humanity due to remaining planet locked and seeing the resources here depleted... which leads to mass deaths and tyranny anyway as socities collapse, so you might as well do it pursueing the outcome that's going to be best for our species and it's survival.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Therumancer said:
Strazdas said:
I can understand where you are coming from when it comes to united nation. However i am arguing that we ca reach that without elimination of alternative morality, but by embracing it. Your way is tyrannical. Mine is liberal. Who is right only time will show.
True, we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens, if anything ever does in either of our lifetimes.

That said, I would point out that by definition any set of laws is going to be a "Tyranny" you've already agreed that a world unity is necessary and that is going to require everyone being unified under one set of laws and conduct.

To put this in a very real context, let's look at rape as an issue. Rape is wrong right? The person doing the attacking is a criminal? Well according to Islam and Islamic law that's not necessarily the case. We've had cases where women have been stoned to death for not marrying the guy who raped them (literally, it made global news at one point), and the whole concept of wifely duties. Now granted, not every Islamic might follow that legal or belief structure, but millions upon millions do within theocratic cultures. To say something even as basic as "rape is a crime" and make that a global law involves making moral judgements and then enforcing them "tyrannically". What's more in passing laws even that simple your probably going to wind up having to kill millions upon millions of people who are going to oppose you for spiritual, as opposed to rational, reasons as that is the basis for their beliefs, and they are just not going to surrender when they think that what amounts to their right engage in rape is a divinely mandated right.

The point I'm simply making is, how do you achieve a global unity while still remaining liberal? Even the most basic human rights are not someone everyone agrees on. I suppose you could say that "alternative morality is okay as long as it fits within certain guidelines" but then again that basically just amounts to making the basic rules rather broad,
at the end of the day any society, or civilization, requires tyranny to function for the sake of everyone, it's simply
a question of how far that tyranny goes and what it enforces.

The world basically sucks, but those are our eventual options, a global unity, which will ultimately involve a degree of tyranny by the standards of a lot of people around right now, or the complete and total death of humanity due to remaining planet locked and seeing the resources here depleted... which leads to mass deaths and tyranny anyway as socities collapse, so you might as well do it pursueing the outcome that's going to be best for our species and it's survival.
liberal does not mean no rules applied. That would be anarchy. Yes, the rules should be very broad. Your rights would end only when your actions or inaction are causing damage to other people. In this case Rape is.
You are correct that every rule is in a sense a authocracy, but that does not necessarely make it a tyranny. Tiranny is when said rule is harmful to society as a whole.
The problem with Islamic rape is that it is not caused by their morality but rather by religiuos teachings, which is basically your opening argument of "no alternative morality allowed". Not allowing alternative morality examples is what causes these beliefs to begin with.