Massively Single Player, Part 1
What's with all the people wanting to play MMOGs by themselves?
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What's with all the people wanting to play MMOGs by themselves?
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Massively Single Player, Part 1
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
I actually bought Guild Wars with the intention of playing it all by myself, then I sort of stumbled upon the extended group of people I've been gaming on and off with for 3 years now.
Most of the time I'll still be by myself in the game though, as Guild Wars is exceptionally solo friendly - I use the guild/alliance channels to chat with people while I play the game by myself, just like most of the other folks I'm talking to are, heh.
Most of the time I'll still be by myself in the game though, as Guild Wars is exceptionally solo friendly - I use the guild/alliance channels to chat with people while I play the game by myself, just like most of the other folks I'm talking to are, heh.
You hit it on the nose. I play LoTRO in a kin full of casual, and largely solo, players. We do like to organize groups to go after raid content, from time to time, but since real life comes first, group-based play just takes too long to organize to be more than an occasional thing.
The other factor is the pain of pick-up-groups. I got spoiled playing with people who could at least run over a bridge without falling off and target a mob in the right group. It's gotten to the point that I'd rather solo what I can and skip the rest than join a PUG.
The comment about hunters is funny, too. A friend told me the other day that he always tells new players to roll a hunter first, because nobody actually expects hunters to know what they're doing.
The other factor is the pain of pick-up-groups. I got spoiled playing with people who could at least run over a bridge without falling off and target a mob in the right group. It's gotten to the point that I'd rather solo what I can and skip the rest than join a PUG.
The comment about hunters is funny, too. A friend told me the other day that he always tells new players to roll a hunter first, because nobody actually expects hunters to know what they're doing.
I'm totally that guy. It's not because I have something against playing with other people (I used to run a MUD for several years, after all), just that it's hard a lot of the time to find specific people I want to play with. When you narrow it down to people I get along with who want to do the same kinds of things I want to in the game and are around at the same time I am, there's often no one left. I have a hard time justifying the subscription price to play by myself, though, so unless TOR or something like that is really amazing, I can get most of what I want out of single-player games.
This article makes me very sad for the state of MMOS. The whole point is the end game content, not the leveling, that's where the interesting groups happen. People solo in MMOS mostly because it's easier and more efficient if you know how to level better than your likely groups. You get to the end game faster and then you group up for raids.
I've done this in every MMO I've played because compared to a good end game the grind is a boring waste of time. The grouping later is what makes the soloing worth it.
I've done this in every MMO I've played because compared to a good end game the grind is a boring waste of time. The grouping later is what makes the soloing worth it.
personally I've been playing (or trying to) mmo's solo since everquest, the main reason being that other players muck up the game for me. griefers, beggars, spammers, gold farmers, elitist pricks etc. quite often if there is a way to turn off the chat window in a mmo I do.
I tend to play them until I reach the limit of fun soloing and then move on, often with a bad taste in my mouth from not having access to the rest of the game, but it's not like I'm not aware of that going in.
for me this goes right along with my main gripe about team fortress 2. I've played the hell out of that game but I would have played it a lot more if there were single player bot matches like unreal tournament. makes me wonder why they chose to include single player modes for l4d and not tf2.
I love good games regardless, but encouraging one playstyle by punishing others is kinda lame in my book.
I tend to play them until I reach the limit of fun soloing and then move on, often with a bad taste in my mouth from not having access to the rest of the game, but it's not like I'm not aware of that going in.
for me this goes right along with my main gripe about team fortress 2. I've played the hell out of that game but I would have played it a lot more if there were single player bot matches like unreal tournament. makes me wonder why they chose to include single player modes for l4d and not tf2.
I love good games regardless, but encouraging one playstyle by punishing others is kinda lame in my book.
When I played MMOs, I used to hunt and gather on my own. I liked the exploration aspects and didn't feel the necessity to force everyone else to play the game at my pace. I still socialized with others though.
The largest barrier for participating in group scenarios is that, frankly, I don't like a lot of the players out there. If a game absolutely forced me to group with these people or weed through them, I wouldn't play it.
Of course, I don't understand the allure of facebook and twitter either so maybe it's just me.
just two days ago i started playing a mmorpg again (i blame you and Funk) and since my work schedule means that i wont get home before 22-23 i really miss high level solo options, i have been spending the majority of the time just farming gold since thats all you really can do, the smaller instances are fun but towards 02 it takes awhile to gather a group often it takes longer than the instance itself.
and during the 3 days i have been playing i have already encountered plenty people who where offensive and uncomfortable to playing with.
and during the 3 days i have been playing i have already encountered plenty people who where offensive and uncomfortable to playing with.
It's a bit of an ironic situaton, alright. You play MMORPGs because they've a massive amount of players... but, you will tend to want to play MMORPGs solo because dealing with the other players can be hassle.
It's mostly a design problem, really. Once you make a game solo (casual) accessible, the players don't have to go through the hassle of dealing with other players, and so they fall into the habit of playing alone. MMORPGs which make grouping easy and noticably more rewarding than soloing tend to get a lot more groups. Simple carrot and stick, really: the carrot being the rewards to group, the stick being the hassle in doing so.
Most MMORPGs don't spare the effort towards doing so because their designers can't figure out how to make a game that can be casual-accessible and yet still possess the incentives needed make grouping the primary mode of play. The rabbits need brave no sticks if they've more than enough carrot to tide them over.
It's mostly a design problem, really. Once you make a game solo (casual) accessible, the players don't have to go through the hassle of dealing with other players, and so they fall into the habit of playing alone. MMORPGs which make grouping easy and noticably more rewarding than soloing tend to get a lot more groups. Simple carrot and stick, really: the carrot being the rewards to group, the stick being the hassle in doing so.
Most MMORPGs don't spare the effort towards doing so because their designers can't figure out how to make a game that can be casual-accessible and yet still possess the incentives needed make grouping the primary mode of play. The rabbits need brave no sticks if they've more than enough carrot to tide them over.
Playing with other people tends to be an inconvenience. In my experience with WoW, it's nearly impossible to find someone who 1) is at your level, 2) needs the same quests as you, and 3) is generally not an ass. Once you've hit 80, of course, it's a completely different story, with nearly all level 80 players doing roughly the same things.
Even when playing with real-life friends, I've found leveling together to be an extremely annoying, frustrating and unsatisfactory experience. It requires coordinating schedules and an agreement to never play that character when the other isn't around: Something that, assuming you get any enjoyment from the character, can be singularly frustrating. My RL friends and I therefore tend to congregate on our 80's when we want to play together, but play alts independently when we'd prefer to simply talk.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's nice to be social without necessarily having to work together. I love talking to people in guild chat, but at the same time having to gather groups for anything other than high-level dungeons can be truly frustrating. I think it's nice to be able to group together when needed, but one of the huge advantages WoW has over early MMO games is that it's not mandatory to group in order to advance.
Also, finally, I wouldn't exactly agree with the "hunter = casual" argument. Hunters are one of the most capable classes in the game, and can take a fair amount of work to master. More importantly, they're one of the few classes able to reliably solo the "elite" quests, which can be really enjoyable. Playing a hunter is somewhat a natural evolution of this whole "I don't want to be forced to group in order to progress" mentality.
Even when playing with real-life friends, I've found leveling together to be an extremely annoying, frustrating and unsatisfactory experience. It requires coordinating schedules and an agreement to never play that character when the other isn't around: Something that, assuming you get any enjoyment from the character, can be singularly frustrating. My RL friends and I therefore tend to congregate on our 80's when we want to play together, but play alts independently when we'd prefer to simply talk.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's nice to be social without necessarily having to work together. I love talking to people in guild chat, but at the same time having to gather groups for anything other than high-level dungeons can be truly frustrating. I think it's nice to be able to group together when needed, but one of the huge advantages WoW has over early MMO games is that it's not mandatory to group in order to advance.
Also, finally, I wouldn't exactly agree with the "hunter = casual" argument. Hunters are one of the most capable classes in the game, and can take a fair amount of work to master. More importantly, they're one of the few classes able to reliably solo the "elite" quests, which can be really enjoyable. Playing a hunter is somewhat a natural evolution of this whole "I don't want to be forced to group in order to progress" mentality.
I never said that Hunters SUCKED, or that they were over powered, or underpowered, and I can already see this thread is going to be nine miles of thin-skinned hunter hater / apologists. Sigh. Shoulda seen that coming. Honestly. This is why we can't have nice things.dogstile said:I got to the bit about hunters being a casual class and was just like
I mean, i took out /warlocks/ with that thing, and warlocks are stupidly easy to play as in pvp.
It's simply possible to play a hunter while you're barely paying attention and they're the ultimate solo class. Yes, you can get more out of them if you learn to play them well, but they're forgiving in that you can get by with just the basics.
It's worth noting one of the reasons one might want to play solo, other than space/time constraints: people on the Internet are assholes, as demonstrated by the Penny Arcade Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.
Every multiplayer game I played to date was dominated by the assholes, jerks, schmucks and generally unpleasant fellows of the Internet. This social circle is more than unappealing, it's downright repulsing. To speak for myself, I don't want to interact with this kind of crowd, and I know others who feel the same. Regardless of why one wants to play an MMOG, the mere presence of this yapping, whining, cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming (you get the idea) crowd can be almost insufferable. For me to actually actively seek out and play alongside them? Unthinkable.
Why not play single player? Some reasons were already said. And sometimes I do want to play with others, but others that I know and like rather than one of the anonymous masses. This is the reason I picked up Guild Wars, to play with a friend.
I see in the multiplayer crowd a deterrent against many potential gamers, or at least online gamers, who might take only a single look at an online game madhouse and decide "This is not for me". Unfortunately, I don't see online demographic changing anytime soon. With people as with many other things, I find that quality has largely gone underground and into hiding. The face of online gaming remains in its obnoxious form. This is as good a reason as any to stay away from it.
Just dropping in to offer my two cents.
It's not necessarily about playing with others, but about the others you play with.
Every multiplayer game I played to date was dominated by the assholes, jerks, schmucks and generally unpleasant fellows of the Internet. This social circle is more than unappealing, it's downright repulsing. To speak for myself, I don't want to interact with this kind of crowd, and I know others who feel the same. Regardless of why one wants to play an MMOG, the mere presence of this yapping, whining, cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming (you get the idea) crowd can be almost insufferable. For me to actually actively seek out and play alongside them? Unthinkable.
Why not play single player? Some reasons were already said. And sometimes I do want to play with others, but others that I know and like rather than one of the anonymous masses. This is the reason I picked up Guild Wars, to play with a friend.
I see in the multiplayer crowd a deterrent against many potential gamers, or at least online gamers, who might take only a single look at an online game madhouse and decide "This is not for me". Unfortunately, I don't see online demographic changing anytime soon. With people as with many other things, I find that quality has largely gone underground and into hiding. The face of online gaming remains in its obnoxious form. This is as good a reason as any to stay away from it.
Just dropping in to offer my two cents.
It's not necessarily about playing with others, but about the others you play with.
I'd like to put forth something that may have been overlooked, and that's the people (admittedly like me) who enjoy the concept of playing multiplayer in theory, but have next to no comfort with the idea of initiating the multiplayer with other players. So I get this MMO, and end up hacking away at junk by my lonesome.
I'm an introvert at heart and find social interaction draining to a certain extent. Don't get me wrong, I'm not your stereotypical gamer shut-in, I go to parties and enjoy the company of other folks. It just drains me, and every once in awhile I feel the need to....well, shut myself in my room and read a book and avoid interaction completely.
Anywho, that's how I inevitably play my MMOs. Because playing with other people stresses me the hell out. It's fun, but it's stressful, and I eventually feel the need to recharge by just doing my own thing. Who knows, maybe I'm not alone?
I'm an introvert at heart and find social interaction draining to a certain extent. Don't get me wrong, I'm not your stereotypical gamer shut-in, I go to parties and enjoy the company of other folks. It just drains me, and every once in awhile I feel the need to....well, shut myself in my room and read a book and avoid interaction completely.
Anywho, that's how I inevitably play my MMOs. Because playing with other people stresses me the hell out. It's fun, but it's stressful, and I eventually feel the need to recharge by just doing my own thing. Who knows, maybe I'm not alone?