McCain?

[OuroborosChoked]

Yes, but there are those who are lied to and those who check the facts.
If it's impossible to check the lies, then the only way to see they are lies is to wait for the people to get into office.
Thing is, America has a three house system, with the power balanced between the three houses so that none of them can act out on their own, and they try as best they can to act as one government, so no one person has all the power.

Whoa whoa whoa... I think you're tapdancing away from the point, here.

How would it suddenly become impossible to check facts if the electoral college was replaced by one person, one vote? That doesn't follow.

And what does the three-house thing have to do with anything? I thought we were talking about presidential elections... which, by the way, are the ONLY form of elections that use the electoral college. If it was such a good system, why is it only used in one type of election?

 

[Alex_P]

No, electors just don't work, period. It took all of two elections for them to devolve into party hacks.

-- Alex

 

[OuroborosChoked]

The entire system is dependent on people who can make well informed decisions and can put people who support their opinions in power.

If one group has more people, then they win.
It doesn't necessarily make them right though.

So the best-informed people being in positions of power... that's a bad thing? Who would've thought that being ill-informed was a good thing?

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

Yes, but there are those who are lied to and those who check the facts.
If it's impossible to check the lies, then the only way to see they are lies is to wait for the people to get into office.
Thing is, America has a three house system, with the power balanced between the three houses so that none of them can act out on their own, and they try as best they can to act as one government, so no one person has all the power.

Whoa whoa whoa... I think you're tapdancing away from the point, here.

How would it suddenly become impossible to check facts if the electoral college was replaced by one person, one vote? That doesn't follow.

And what does the three-house thing have to do with anything? I thought we were talking about presidential elections... which, by the way, are the ONLY form of elections that use the electoral college. If it was such a good system, why is it only used in one type of election?

Whoops. Tangent.
The three house thing makes it so that the president can not act on their own with complete rule, i.e. like a Dictator.
This makes it so if the people are disagreeing with them, they can protest and try and have thing's changed. (doesn't mean they'll be heard sadly.)

As for why the electoral college is used only for presidential elections, it was mainly less of a hassle to count electoral votes as opposed to an entire population's worth of votes back in the day where things like 'The Cotton Gin' were considered innovative. It's not used in other votes because the people would have chosen a representative of their state who would agree with them and vote on their behalf.

No, electors just don't work, period. It took all of two elections for them to devolve into party hacks.

-- Alex

George Washington was quoted as saying that electoral parties would be the downfall of the nation.
I agree with him.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

The entire system is dependent on people who can make well informed decisions and can put people who support their opinions in power.

If one group has more people, then they win.
It doesn't necessarily make them right though.

So the best-informed people being in positions of power... that's a bad thing? Who would've thought that being ill-informed was a good thing?

Ah. Sorry. I'm not thinking strait right now.

It's required that the people inform themselves on the issues for this system to work, but it doesn't mean that they fully inform themselves. I said 'It doesn't always make them right' because if the majority is uninformed and vote on a whim, then they are not necessarily making the right decision.

 

[jdguy]

What terrifies me as an American is the lack of knowledge people actually have on the issues. So many people side with McCain not knowing that he votes 90% of the time with Bush (its a fact look it up). People think Obama is inexperenced yet he has voted against most of the troubling issues plaguing my country (not all just most). Also with Palin's stance on women's rights (She wanted women to pay for their own rape kits), there is nothing positive coming from John McCain's camp.

Now that is just the facts of the two canidates. It really is America in general that is suffering. As a nation we have shifted so far to the right that even moderates (like myself) are seen as crazy liberals. Most of our citizens think CNN is left wing propoganda, thinks FoX doesn't have outright lies in its reporting, and worst of all thinks evolution hasn't been vetted scientifically.

American's are not evil just either ignorant or stupid (meaning willful ignorance). Most of the anti-Obama stuff is compleatly false or brought on by Racism and ignorance.

But I'm just a political science and American history double major... not like I know what I'm talking about.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Ah. Sorry. I'm not thinking strait right now.

It's required that the people inform themselves on the issues for this system to work, but it doesn't mean that they fully inform themselves. I said 'It doesn't always make them right' because if the majority is uninformed and vote on a whim, then they are not necessarily making the right decision.

Ah, the reason I didn't acknowledge that... who decides what the "right" choice is?

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

Ah. Sorry. I'm not thinking strait right now.

It's required that the people inform themselves on the issues for this system to work, but it doesn't mean that they fully inform themselves. I said 'It doesn't always make them right' because if the majority is uninformed and vote on a whim, then they are not necessarily making the right decision.

Ah, the reason I didn't acknowledge that... who decides what the "right" choice is?

I don't know. Whoever looks back from the future and either calls it as a bad decision or a good one.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

As for why the electoral college is used only for presidential elections, it was mainly less of a hassle to count electoral votes as opposed to an entire population's worth of votes back in the day where things like 'The Cotton Gin' were considered innovative. It's not used in other votes because the people would have chosen a representative of their state who would agree with them and vote on their behalf.

I think you just admitted that the electoral college is out of date.

There's no use for it today.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Ah. Sorry. I'm not thinking strait right now.

It's required that the people inform themselves on the issues for this system to work, but it doesn't mean that they fully inform themselves. I said 'It doesn't always make them right' because if the majority is uninformed and vote on a whim, then they are not necessarily making the right decision.

Ah, the reason I didn't acknowledge that... who decides what the "right" choice is?

I don't know. Whoever looks back from the future and either calls it as a bad decision or a good one.

So only people from the future should vote? I mean, they're the ones who'll know which was the "right" decision... AND they'd be the most informed.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

So only people from the future should vote? I mean, they're the ones who'll know which was the "right" decision... AND they'd be the most informed.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

As for why the electoral college is used only for presidential elections, it was mainly less of a hassle to count electoral votes as opposed to an entire population's worth of votes back in the day where things like 'The Cotton Gin' were considered innovative. It's not used in other votes because the people would have chosen a representative of their state who would agree with them and vote on their behalf.

I think you just admitted that the electoral college is out of date.

There's no use for it today.

There is a use for it, considering that it's used to elect the president, however, it isn't required anymore.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

As for why the electoral college is used only for presidential elections, it was mainly less of a hassle to count electoral votes as opposed to an entire population's worth of votes back in the day where things like 'The Cotton Gin' were considered innovative. It's not used in other votes because the people would have chosen a representative of their state who would agree with them and vote on their behalf.

I think you just admitted that the electoral college is out of date.

There's no use for it today.

There is a use for it, considering that it's used to elect the president, however, it isn't required anymore.

So you agree that we don't need it anymore? So why do we have it still?

I say it's time for a change.

Get rid of the electoral college.

 

[werepossum]

I'd be willing to bet the majority of people in here have never been in a "hostile situation" in the Middle East.

*waits for them to pretend as if it doesn't matter in the BIG picture*

McCain hasn't.
Obama hasn't.
Palin hasn't.
Biden hasn't.

And we all know about McCain's Baghdad market stroll... with armored escort and Apache helicopters overhead. Hell, that's how I go shopping all the time!

I won't support McCain because:
1. Palin is a scary, irresponsible choice which only reflects on McCain's lack of judgement. Is he really putting country first picking someone like Palin?
2. McCain's supporters are racists, bigots, and igorant fucks who continue to chant debunked "facts". All that shit like "Obama is only one letter away from Osama" and "Obama's a secret muslim". What the fuck is a "secret muslim" anyway? And what does that even matter? Muslim does not equal TERRORIST. A vote for McCain is a vote for these kinds of people having a voice in the highest office this country has.
3. McCain's campaign is a campaign based on fear. He wants us to be afraid. Afraid of "that guy". Afraid of foreignness. Afraid of change. Afraid of truth. He plays to peoples hatred and fears. I don't want that in a president.
4. The lies. McCain is beating the old Republican drum that DEMOCRATZ ALWAYZ RAZE TAXES!!. Under Obama's tax plan (yes, this has been explained over and over again), most Americans will SAVE MONEY. Under McCain's plan, the lower-income families will be even more heavily taxed than they are under Bush. Sorry, I can't afford to be taxed MORE, McCain.

That's just 4 reasons. For the sake of brevity, I'll stop here.

Let's see, McCain (who adopted a black daughter and hasn't made a big deal about it) is by extension racist, whilst Obama who wrote in his first book "White folks' greed runs a world in need" is obviously NOT a racist. And McCain is going to raise taxes, whilst Obama is going to lower taxes.

This shows why Obama will be elected president - we have become a whiny bunch of idiots who deserve no better.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

As for why the electoral college is used only for presidential elections, it was mainly less of a hassle to count electoral votes as opposed to an entire population's worth of votes back in the day where things like 'The Cotton Gin' were considered innovative. It's not used in other votes because the people would have chosen a representative of their state who would agree with them and vote on their behalf.

I think you just admitted that the electoral college is out of date.

There's no use for it today.

There is a use for it, considering that it's used to elect the president, however, it isn't required anymore.

So you agree that we don't need it anymore? So why do we have it still?

I say it's time for a change.

Get rid of the electoral college.

Sure. Why not?

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Let's see, McCain (who adopted a black daughter and hasn't made a big deal about it) is by extension racist, whilst Obama who wrote in his first book "White folks' greed runs a world in need" is obviously NOT a racist.

I didn't say a word about McCain and racism. I talked about his followers. Try reading.

And McCain is going to raise taxes, whilst Obama is going to lower taxes.

Yup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITT75RROgQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaIjHWtKtwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BDyz4J-QA
EDIT: One more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNyNv_UfFUo

This shows why Obama will be elected president - we have become a whiny bunch of idiots who deserve no better.

Well, I can't speak for all of us... but I'm not whining... and I'm not an idiot. You must be speaking for yourself, then... you DID say "we", after all...

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

What terrifies me as an American is the lack of knowledge people actually have on the issues. So many people side with McCain not knowing that he votes 90% of the time with Bush (its a fact look it up).

It's 95 percent in 2007.
If you're going to start chastising others for their ignorance, at least get your examples straight.

 

[cainx10a]

Let's see, McCain (who adopted a black daughter and hasn't made a big deal about it) is by extension racist, whilst Obama who wrote in his first book "White folks' greed runs a world in need" is obviously NOT a racist.

I didn't say a word about McCain and racism. I talked about his followers. Try reading.

And McCain is going to raise taxes, whilst Obama is going to lower taxes.

Yup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITT75RROgQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaIjHWtKtwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BDyz4J-QA
EDIT: One more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNyNv_UfFUo

This shows why Obama will be elected president - we have become a whiny bunch of idiots who deserve no better.

Well, I can't speak for all of us... but I'm not whining... and I'm not an idiot. You must be speaking for yourself, then... you DID say "we", after all...

Amen, brother.

 

[jdguy]

on average it is about 90% I know more recently its more but I whent with the average. Also ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of, the problem is when that ignorance turns to stupidity due to willfulness.

I'm more upset about the strait talk being mostly lies and the truth being ignored. I like truthyness as much as the next guy but... would rather have it be in jest.

 

[Fret098]

McCain actually has the potential to do something.
Obama just waves his hand like a celeberity. Couldn't they have at least gotten someone like Brad Pitt to do that? Hell it'd be like electing the same man...

On a fair note, the reason people despise Bush and McCain is because they fail to see the good accomplished by the Bush administration. We took an enemy that wanted to attack us and moved the target from our homeland to a location in the Middle East. Sorry that we don't have time to spend money on "social programs" due to an economy that was bound to collapse regardless if we had gone to war, when the previous administration failed to properly take care of the leftovers Bush had to deal with.

So what if he did lie?

You'd stutter too if you had so many countries which wished to wipe your country off the face of the earth without justification.

hmmm just one thing to say bout this post, LOL!!!!!!!!! /cough excuse me