ME3: One hell of a retcon...

[Alucard788]

You know I was sitting here thinking about how nice it's going to be to finally romance Kaidain in ME3 (I like the men, and I wanted him to join my Hawke, and Elven Gray warden)....and it it struck me. How the hell is that going to go down exactly? While lesbianism is clearly on display in ME3 (for the enjoyment of all I take it) how ever homosexual men...as far as i can remember...are completely absent in any form.

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off? Is it just going to be "Oh hey gay men exist now!" or just...I dunno.

Then I had another thought...why don't thy make it illegal. The love of two women is legal but the love between two men is not and is considered extremely taboo. A kind of sad commentary on how some things never change...even in the future.

That would actually make sense in the context of the world of ME3. Considering what they said here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99710-BioWare-Explains-Why-Theres-No-Homosexuality-in-Mass-Effect-2 which well...it seems like to me they completely ignored the 120 pound blue alien in the room.

Why do you guys think? How should they handle this?

 

[Ekonk]

Well, y'know, lots of gays date or fuck women before they discover they're gay. By falling in love with a man. A gay friend or mine used to have a girlfriend back in the day. It's not like that never happens or anything.

That Shepard first bangs women and then Kaidan isn't really all that odd. Then again, you could have played the game in a way that Shepard bangs no one and then Kaidan. Or no one at all.

EDIT: But I agree, it's still odd that they didn't put this in the first game to begin with. I guess sex in video games was big enough an issue already in the States without throwing gay relationships in it as well.

O'Reilly would be furious.

 

[MisterDyslexo]

Well considering the fact that they're saying that all the rubbish they gave for there being no homosexuality never happened (I shit you not), I imagine its just gonna happen like nothing at all. I mean thats how Kelly worked, thats how it worked in Dragon Age. So a simple nod and "Oh hai I liek guyz" will do. Besides, judging by the PS3 Genesis comic thing, I think that retcon is the least of your worries.

 

[Nimcha]

As far as I remember none of those characters ever explicitly stated they were straight right? *shrug*

You can think of a million reasons why for example Kaiden never stated his apparent attraction to men and I'm sure BioWare will use one of those. It's not really that big of a deal, in my opinion.

 

[Shio]

As far as I remember none of those characters ever explicitly stated they were straight right? *shrug*

Mmm. That's how I see things.

I've never understood the shock or surprise people feel when someone "comes out". If they never said they were heterosexual, should you be all that taken back if your assumption was wrong? Eh.

 

[The Wykydtron]

It doesn't really bother me, in fact a bigger retcon would be how there's even room for proper relationships in ME3 in the first place

"Commander we need stop the Reapers!"
"Shush Kelly i'm systematically walking around the ship taking to absolutely everyone between every single mission, Reapers be damned!"
"But-"
"Ah time to go and get drunk with Chakwas again tallyho!"

 

[SoranMBane]

The way I'd handle it is to just add a few new characters that would serve as gay romance options, since it wouldn't make much sense for previously straight characters to suddenly turn gay. It wouldn't be the first time they've invented new characters just for romancing (that's apparently where Thane came from), so it could work. I also suppose it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that some characters were actually bi but hiding the fact the whole time, but that also feels a bit odd to me.

 

[Zhukov]

This again? Really?

Christ, people sure do start acting funny when sexuality enters the picture.

 

[Alucard788]

How the hell is that going to go down exactly? While lesbianism is clearly on display in ME3 (for the enjoyment of all I take it) how ever homosexual men...as far as i can remember...are completely absent in any form.

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off? Is it just going to be "Oh hey gay men exist now!" or just...I dunno.

Couldn't care less about retconning. What reason is there to moan about it? It's been done so that gay men can enjoy the character more - I'm fine with that reasoning.

I am a gay man. Yes I do realize that is part of the reason as to why they are doing this, but the point I'm tying to make is this.

Int the context of the 'world' of ME3 gay men do not exist in any way, shape, or form. At all...they just do not exist. So how are they going to re-gear to story so that (supposidly) it's always been there.

Thats what I'm trying to say.

 

[ConnorCool]

Last time I looked the whole Mass Effect series sets itself up so you can play your own Shepherd, so there really can't be any propper retconning, unless they make a definite story line the 'correct' story line.
Also, I believe that you fall in love with a person's personality, not their looks or gender, although they do play a part in the feeling.
The sex scene Bioware puts in is just a ham-handed way of showing the emotion of love between the two characters.

 

[Canadish]

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

I don't want another situation like with Anders. Forced you to either romance him or go all homophobic on his ass. How about a polite "No thanks, not my thing" Bioware?
Hell, Zevren was less offensive then that. But I suppose that's the dialogue wheel's problem, not Anders eh? *cough cough*

As for the point about there not being any gay men thus far, I think we can just assume it was there. No real need for it to be addressed.
We know the real reason. It was Bioware afraid of scaring off the usual homophobic 12 year old COD crowd with "Teh Gayz". For whatever reason, they've changed their minds.

 

[Vonnis]

Yeah, people coming out of the closet are basically retconning the hell out of their lives. I really need to tell them I can't stand for this!

The whole ME sexuality discussion is by far one of the silliest gaming topics presently. Why the hell does everyone care so much? As long as they don't fuck up existing characters (or make every single gay character the flamingly flamboyant type) they could add the village people as team mates for all I care.

 

[NickCaligo42]

This again? Really?

Christ, people sure do start acting funny when sexuality enters the picture.

Well, it's a really sensitive topic, unfortunately, and... let's face it, this is going to be a weird retcon; not because Kaidan is suddenly gay, oh no. Because Kaidan, Garrus, Thane, and any other previously romanceable male character will all suddenly be gay and bend over in the space of a wink. That's the thing that really bugs me about Bioware's approach with this sort of thing; none of the characters have any sexual preference to speak of. It's already really improbable that you'd end up making anybody of the opposite sex in your workplace feel attracted to you, much less everybody of both sexes.

 

[Alucard788]

Oh for the love of...where the hell are some of you getting that I have an issue with this?!

I'm not nerd raging I'm just debating in my mind how this might work in the context of the story and the world.

I do not mean for this to be for flames or or anything augmentative. I don't know how my post came across to you people as negative. I'm just putting it out there and seeing if folks had other ideas as to how they would go about it.

A debate people...a debate....just a debate not a firestorm.

>_<

 

[Pearwood]

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off? Is it just going to be "Oh hey gay men exist now!" or just...I dunno.

I think that's exactly what they'll do, broader market appeal is more important than a minor plothole.

 

[mireko]

Two things:

1. Have they actually announced you can romance Kaidan? As far as I'm aware all they've said is that there are same-sex LI's for both male and female Shepard, and that they aren't necessarily the returning team mates.

2. Kaidan was straight? I couldn't tell through all the bland he was giving off.

This again? Really?

Christ, people sure do start acting funny when sexuality enters the picture.

Well, it's a really sensitive topic, unfortunately, and... let's face it, this is going to be a weird retcon; not because Kaidan is suddenly gay, oh no. Because Kaidan, Garrus, Thane, and any other previously romanceable male character will all suddenly be gay and bend over in the space of a wink. That's the thing that really bugs me about Bioware's approach with this sort of thing; none of the characters have any sexual preference to speak of. It's already really improbable that you'd end up making anybody of the opposite sex in your workplace feel attracted to you, much less everybody of both sexes.

Except they haven't said that is happening. Unless you have a source, don't just make stuff up.

Some game sites saying "previously straight chars now available for both m&f chars" not necessarily true. Will have some new LI's in #ME3

link

 

[Zhukov]

Int the context of the 'world' of ME3 gay men do not exist in any way, shape, or form. At all...they just do not exist. So how are they going to re-gear to story so that (supposidly) it's always been there.

Thats what I'm trying to say.

They originally planned to make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual in ME1. Same goes for Tali and Jack in ME2.

Hell, they even recorded dialogue for it. Some of the audio files are on the disc.

I'm not entirely sure why they cut it. There may have been an issue with time or resources. Perhaps they didn't think there was enough demand to bother. And of course they were would have been worried about controversy and sales. Judging by some of the reactions to DA2 ("Oh dear God! Anders hit on me, the horror!"), they may have been right to worry.

 

[Canadish]

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

I don't want another situation like with Anders. Forced you to either romance him or go all homophobic on his ass. How about a polite "No thanks, not my thing" Bioware?
Hell, Zevren was less offensive then that. But I suppose that's the dialogue wheel's problem, not Anders eh? *cough cough*

The problem I had with Anders was that he was the only competent healer in the game. I hated the character intensely in Awakenings, and I hated him even more in DA2.

I wonder whether a lot of flak Bioware got over that character was not merely because he was annoying and also a bit strong with his come-ons (and not really for the latter, but hey), but that he was necessary for any properly balanced party (well again not really, but it's damn hard without him).

Well I guess you should have done what Bioware wanted and played a mage eh!
Then you could have healed yourself!
Darn players and they're desire for "choice"!
Mr. Gaider (the lead writer) obviously had a very specific story in his head.
Hawke was supposed to be a mage.
Anders was the intended love interest.
And of course, he does what he does at the end of the game, regardless if you ignore his quest.

But this is off topic.

I do worry about Mass Effect 3 in the same regard though. Is there going to be another "true" path?

 

[Cavan]

You have no idea how disappointed I am in this thread and in people who insist on keeping the mass effect romance cliché burning.

Making the reapers secretly controlled by the muppets is a huge retcon, replacing everybodies arms and legs with lightsabers in a huge retcon, saying that Shep is actually a dog and that the first two dreams were some kind of drug and reaper induced hallucination from within the twisted mind of Saren while he went down the shops in a sleepy little village south of Yorkshire is a huge retcon.
Changing the sexuality of a character who doesn't openly denounce being homosexual just because Bioware didn't feel like it fit into their grand scheme of things at the time is not a huge retcon :/

 

[Alucard788]

Oh dear...I really do regret posting this now. I never meant it to go this way. I don't really know how I could have worded this any differently...to really bring home what I was trying to say.

I wanted a nice debate over story lines and how perhaps this could come about....but I guess it's just not going to happen.

I do not want to say this...but I have to...did some of you actually read what I wrote? or did you just skim the title?

This is just...worrying in a way I can't describe.

((Apologies to anyone that understood my post...really. I had no idea this would turn out to be so vile. ))