ME3: Thessia and Kai Leng (Spoilers)

[NinjaDeathSlap]

snip

I see where your coming from, unfortunately I think the only way they could have done it differently and made Shepard legitimately lose is to have just done the whole fight as a cutscene (because you can't exactly force players to lose in gameplay), which would have left a lot of people feeling cheated in an even worse sense, feeling like they'd been cheated out of gameplay because - to paraphrase Yahtzee - 'the game thought that you'd cramp its style'.

I do agree with you on the whole Eric Cartman analogy though. He really is a try-hard, especially when, thinking back, I can't actually remember him attacking me at any point. He ran from me at The Citadel; on Thessia he just danced around while I kept him at range with ease, and had to call in Gunships to protect him while he recharged his barriers, and also to win the fight at the end. Finally, at Cronos Station, You get 2 piss easy QTE's, one at the start of the fight and one at the end, while the rest of the time he just runs away and throws goons at you again. So yeah, for a guy who loves to run his mouth so much he's really not very good at his job (admittedly I was playing on Casual though)

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

It's one of the less significant problems with him, but who else is annoyed by the fact that
(in a game where taking cover to recharge your shields is a pivotal mechanic) the dipshit kneels right in your line of fire to pull energy out of nowhere and re- shield?! Ugh, the fights make so little sense.

And if he knew in advance exactly where you would be (including the middle of his stronghold, for fuck's sake) why did he not just lay a trap? Bust out your superficially badass one- liners AFTER you snipe Shepard's trigger arm off. This guy is almost as bad at ambushing as the Collectors.

I might be remembering this wrong, but I think he uses biotic barriers rather than shields. In which case, that's probably just the move he needs to do to use that particular power, as the codex has always said that biotics need to learn specific body movements in order to create the right mass effect fields for specific powers. Still more than a little elaborate for an assassin, but at least then it makes some kind of sense.

 

[mirror's edgy]

It's one of the less significant problems with him, but who else is annoyed by the fact that
(in a game where taking cover to recharge your shields is a pivotal mechanic) the dipshit kneels right in your line of fire to pull energy out of nowhere and re- shield?! Ugh, the fights make so little sense.

And if he knew in advance exactly where you would be (including the middle of his stronghold, for fuck's sake) why did he not just lay a trap? Bust out your superficially badass one- liners AFTER you snipe Shepard's trigger arm off. This guy is almost as bad at ambushing as the Collectors.

I might be remembering this wrong, but I think he uses biotic barriers rather than shields. In which case, that's probably just the move he needs to do to use that particular power, as the codex has always said that biotics need to learn specific body movements in order to create the right mass effect fields for specific powers. Still more than a little elaborate for an assassin, but at least then it makes some kind of sense.

Shields, according to the wiki. Which are far worse, because they block every bloody power short of Overload from doing any good.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

It's one of the less significant problems with him, but who else is annoyed by the fact that
(in a game where taking cover to recharge your shields is a pivotal mechanic) the dipshit kneels right in your line of fire to pull energy out of nowhere and re- shield?! Ugh, the fights make so little sense.

And if he knew in advance exactly where you would be (including the middle of his stronghold, for fuck's sake) why did he not just lay a trap? Bust out your superficially badass one- liners AFTER you snipe Shepard's trigger arm off. This guy is almost as bad at ambushing as the Collectors.

I might be remembering this wrong, but I think he uses biotic barriers rather than shields. In which case, that's probably just the move he needs to do to use that particular power, as the codex has always said that biotics need to learn specific body movements in order to create the right mass effect fields for specific powers. Still more than a little elaborate for an assassin, but at least then it makes some kind of sense.

Shields, according to the wiki. Which are far worse, because they block every bloody power short of Overload from doing any good.

I stand corrected. Mind you, I think the games industry kinda gave up on the idea of assassins being stealthy after Ezio rocked up wearing the most conspicuous outfit ever and packing an entire armory underneath it.

 

[The Bum]

I found Kai Lang hilariously weak. Having brought my Shepard from the beginning, by the time I met Kai Lang (Who looks very stupid) I was a level 50 Vanguard. I don't recall him even bringing down my shields without the help of his little gunship. A leveled villain would have been better, I think.

EDIT: This is with Biotic charge (which puts me in range of his little pig sticker) and Nova (which uses up my shields), which makes it even sadder.

 

[MPerce]

Eh, Kai Leng never bothered me all that much. He only shows up 3 times in the entire game, and he never stuck around long enough to annoy me.

And the Thessia stuff probably would've bothered me if the stuff on the Normandy afterwards hadn't handled it so well. But the character development for Shepard was interesting enough that I didn't care too much about the method they chose for getting me there.

 

[hermes]

Someone brought up a good point on Twitter: Gameplay Shepard is an unstoppable badass, never missing a shot with biotics raging. Cutscene Shepard can't hit the broadside of a barn, plinking away with a pistol that only exists in cutscenes.

So, he is the opposite of DMC's Dante?

 

[Radoh]

I found Kai Lang hilariously weak. Having brought my Shepard from the beginning, by the time I met Kai Lang (Who looks very stupid) I was a level 50 Vanguard. I don't recall him even bringing down my shields without the help of his little gunship. A leveled villain would have been better, I think.

Honestly, I think that was the point they were trying to convey to you.
He's a badass... compared to anyone who isn't Shepard.
Remember Shepard canonically fist fought a Yahg and survived being mostly dead for two years. Hell, in ME2 his heavy weapon was the Cain. This man is responsible for killing Sovereign, stopping Harbinger, killing a Reaper on Tuchanka, and another on Rannoch if I'm remembering the course of events correctly.
This helps to convey that Kai Leng is a little ***** who thinks himself a badass.

 

[Lupus80]

They want you to think that KL is just the biggest pussy in the galaxy, that you could absolutely murder him in a fair fight. For people who might be unfamiliar with the character, I think Bioware WANTED to instill a sense of absolute pure hatred for the guy, the kind that Shepard gets after the Thessia incident. "The next time I see him, he dies." Or as Garrus suggests: "You bottle up all your anger and hate and then use it to rearrange every molecule in Kai Leng's body." Really I was looking forward to killing KL ever since the Citadel, but words can't describe how much I hated him and wanted to kill him in literally indescribable ways (edit: after the mission on Thessia).

That's why after the Thessia mission they have KL send you a letter to rub it in. He's just so over-the-top arrogant "Ha ha, I kicked ur ass, u mad?" To which all I could think was "YOU didn't kick my ass...you called in a fucking airstrike and leveled a building...and you STILL couldn't kill me!"

And of course during the fight when you do finally kill him, Shepard brings up the fact that he is, indeed, the biggest pussy in the galaxy, taunting him by saying "All you every fucking do is run. You ran away like a ***** on the Citadel, you ran away like a ***** on Thessia. Now there's nowhere to run!" and you blast his fucking face off with a shot from the Black Widow. And good god did it feel satisfying to kill him.

They didn't have a whole lot of time to build up his character for those who didn't read the books, but they still wanted you to have a vested interest, a true hatred for the guy. And that's why I think he's so god damn annoyingly arrogant.

I totally agree with what your saying and if it was Bioware's intention to make him an annoying loser than they succeeded on that account. Still though, he has to be one of the shallowest characters in the Mass Effect series. Saren, from ME1, had some pretty simple villian motivations but at least you got to talk to him and learn why he was doing what he was doing. We even got the chance to convince Saren he was wrong and make him doubt himself (even kill himself if we were good enough). Now I know Kai Leng was not a major villian like Saren but wouldn't be great if we were able to convince Leng that he should just give up because he sucks so much?

Maybe one of the things we should ask from Bioware is a blooper reel where Kai Leng fucks up all the time. When he jumped onto the top of your air car in the Citidel I kept thinking "Pull up into that overhang!" and the wonderful vision of Leng's head smacking it. We could also have Kai Leng getting ready to fight, dancing around with his sword...then he trips like a clumsy idiot and enviserates himself.

See? I just can't take this guy seriously. He's a joke to me. I'd find a Elcor undercover cop more intimidating and kickass.

Actually on second thought an Elcor undercover cop is pretty kickass to begin with.

 

[Tono Makt]

Other than the ending there is another part I have issue with the story and gameplay of Mass Effect 3: the Priority: Thessia mission and the villian Kai Leng.

Unlike the ending, I can see what the writers and director was going for when Shepard is trying to save Thessia from the Reapers. It is a losing battle, a conflict that no matter how much you try and what you do you lose. I get that. The theme and mood were very well presented in the story and dialog. But when the mission was over, and you are shown Shepard agonizing over the defeat; I just didn't feel it. I felt cheated.

It's because the game had to "cheat" in order for me to lose. I know it was meant to be a forgone conclusion, all wrapped up in the joke of a villian Kai Leng.

The first time I saw the guy (I didn't watch any spoilers until I played the game) I laughed at how silly he looked. But whatever; lots of badasses look silly (just look at the Final Fantasy series). Even before the first battle with him whenever he talked I just heard a high-pitched-Eric-Cartman-whining voice saying "Look at me, I'm so coo! I'm all ninja-like and have a katana! I can do everything and have no weaknesses! I have to be protected by the plot! I'm so coo! Please believe me! I'm coo right! So coo!"

So at the battle on Thessia I actually managed to take down most of his health until his life-saving cutscene intervened and totally denied my ass kicking of the cyber-ninja wannabe. So when he gets away with the Prothean VI and Thessia is destroyed, I didn't feel like I failed. I just felt cheated. I didn't share Shepard's agnozing after the fact (even though it was well acted and portrayed) because I kept thinking "I didn't fail, the stupid cyber-ninja cheated to win."

Maybe if the game handled it a bit differently I would have shared Shepard's agony in defeat. If they made it so you could save someone important, or give time for people to flee the planet, but make it really, really hard to do so than that would give me something to latch onto emotionally.

It was not a complete failure though. It was still satisfying to skewer Kai Leng a new one in the end (Renegade interupt or not). Compared with the other villians of Mass Effect Kai Leng fails on so many levels to intimidate me or leave a good impression in any way.

ME1 - Saren - Vyrmire.

Sorry dude, can't quite sympathize with you on this point. I can see it, just don't agree with it,

 

[edgecult]

Yeah i never really understood where his so posed badassness came from.. Everyone in the game constantly warns you to just avoid him and be careful of him after he appears on screen for the first time but i never got why.

I mean Thane put it best.. He got reaved from his kill by an injured and sick man. He get's out run by shepard on foot when he had a major head start. On thessia he poses no threat himself.. only his gunship buddies posed any real threat.. then he acts like he stomped you out completely on his own with that stupid smirk on his face. Managed to not finish the job with miranda on horizon.. and then when he finally doesn't have a convenient escape route he goes down as easy as one expects.. I guess his badassness in game corilates to how well you're doing in the game. (He can get his kills on the citadel and horizon.. plus your ability to play the game well.)

From what I understand his badassness comes back from some of the books and such -shrug- but to anyone else he's just this random ninja guy with a trumped up reputation.

 

[angry_flashlight]

I remember not really caring too much about it at first. Yeah, Leng cheated, but all's fair in war, etc. No, what got me was the email he sent afterward. Dude, using cheap tactics is acceptable, but then bragging about it? That made me hate him so much.

^ This so much. If I'd had my way, I'd have called the Normandy and have it fly down and just wreck his *****-crutch gunship in one hit then fly off. Oh, you brought a gunship? I brought a warship. I win.
Then I'd triple overload him (Me: Sentinel, Squad: Garrus & EDI) and LAUGH ALL DAY LONG. Then double kneecap him with the Carnifex for background irony (Anderson shot him in the knees before apparently), and then Warp him until he's a pile of goo/ash.
Moral of the story? DON'T FUCK WITH SHEPARD, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE PISSED OFF.

That email afterwards just made me laugh. Really? You 'went easy on me'? Good because I barely even fired my gun at all. Maxed Overload + Maxed Warp + 200% cooldown = LOLz. I wish I could email him back just mercilessly trolling him.

Kai Leng was such a joke of a boss that I just wanted to face him again so I could punt him into a nearby star. Made that renegade interrupt so satisfying at the end though and I was paragon. Not because he was a worthy villain, but because the ***** got what was coming to him. Kai Leng was about as threatening as Team Rocket at the end. I was more worried about those phantoms actually.

 

[Eddie the head]

The last Kai Leng fight(At illusive base) on Insanity is a *****. Especially if you're playing Vanguard.


bunch of one hit phantoms running around, soldiers trying to shoot at you and what not. it could've been designed better in my opinion.

No fucking joke. I must've died like 30 times.

I know difficulty is subjective but as a Vanguard on Insanity I thought it was piss easy, more boring than anything. Just charge nova over and over.

 

[Lupus80]

ME1 - Saren - Vyrmire.

Sorry dude, can't quite sympathize with you on this point. I can see it, just don't agree with it,

The difference is that with Saren is that you got to know him. You got to understand his motives and actually argue/interact with him. Another difference is that your actions actually matter on Vermire (which squad mate dies, if Wrex dies, if the Sarlian task force is slaughtered, etc.)as opposed to the mission on Thessia where you have no choice in any matter.

I understand the comparison and admit to it; but at least you got to knock Saren off his hover platform (by the way why haven't we seen more of those things? They seem like they would be useful), and you got to ruin his plan to create a krogan-clone army. Yes, I know, you suriving and destroying the facility is just as forced as the destruction of Thessia, but maybe it was just the execution of it all that got to me.

 

[Grivahri]

I was pissed when Kai Leng defeated me. I just wanted to find him and rip him to pieces. I think that part of the game was written perfectly. It gave you the feeling of defeat and anger, and you also realized that if you didn't stop cerberus soon this would all be over. I actually chose the renegade options for awhile after that even though my shepard was strictly paragon, to indicate that the only thing I wanted right now was to defeat Cerberus. You could feel the stress and frustration of Shepard in you as well. This led to the scene when joker jokes about the thessia situation. My Shepard chose the renegade option "why the jokes" and then the paragon "Thanks but I'm fine". This is a great scene which shows the amount of pressure that is on Shepard.

 

[Ridgemo]

snip

I do agree with you on the whole Eric Cartman analogy though. He really is a try-hard, especially when, thinking back, I can't actually remember him attacking me at any point. He ran from me at The Citadel; on Thessia he just danced around while I kept him at range with ease, and had to call in Gunships to protect him while he recharged his barriers, and also to win the fight at the end. Finally, at Cronos Station, You get 2 piss easy QTE's, one at the start of the fight and one at the end, while the rest of the time he just runs away and throws goons at you again. So yeah, for a guy who loves to run his mouth so much he's really not very good at his job (admittedly I was playing on Casual though)

Doesn't matter what difficulty he's on, I ruined him on Insanity and rememeber sitting there thinking "Why is this clown still alive? I have the Widow for christ-sakes, he shouldn't have a face!"

 

[mad825]

Kai Leng...

A mutant from result of this "Ninja meme". Seeing as Cerberus seems to be indoctrinated, why not go for something more Reaperish like...Harbinger.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Kai Leng was like an annoying buzzing fly.

Who the fuck is that guy, and why should I hate him? Just because... he's a bad guy dressed in black? I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Especially not in the final stretch of the series where the main enemy force is already clearly defined and set up.

Also, a space ninja? Really, Bioware? This guy is supposed to be this ultimate badass assassin, yet he can't see the benefit of a projectile weapon. If the guy simply had a Black Widow with him on the Citidal, he could've easily taken out the salarian ambassador and Shepard would've been none the wiser.

I don't mind this stuff in games like Metal Gear Solid, because the universe lends itself to it. But I was under the impression that Mass Effect was a bit more grounded in practicality.