Meat

[rutger5000]

I'm probably the 10th person to say this but:
A vegan is a person who doesn't eat any animal products such as eggs or dairy products. That's pretty hardcore and very difficult to do healthy.
I don't eat meat because I know that the meat industry is one of the largest polluters and a major hazard to the health of the general population. For those that require some explanation. Animals shit, shit contains methane, methane is a very potent greenhouse gas, much more harmful then C02. Most animals in the meat industry regular get antibiotics mixed in their food to prevent infections which would be waste. This will eventually lead to a great number of bacteria that are resistant to any kind of antibiotics. Those bacteria could pose a major threat to health of the general population.
I would eat synthetic meat no problem. Provided that it was reasonable environmental friendly (It should be, no shit).

 

[SKBPinkie]

Vegetarian here.

It's usually healthier. But I understand how some folk may prefer meat for lifestyle / taste reasons.

Also, can I just say - (rant incoming) vegetarian food isn't just salads. It's really annoying when most TV shows or movies (or even random people on the internet) portray vegetarians this way. First of all, it's always expressed with an air of condescension and that's fucking obnoxious. Second of all, you don't know shit about cooking or haven't the faintest clue of good vegetarian dishes if a frickin' salad is the first and only thing that comes to mind.

I'm completely okay with other people eating meat, and will never look down on them or think they're less "moral" than I am, but Jesus Christ, is it too hard to ask for the same level of respect?

 

[TheEvilCheese]

Vegetarian here.

It's usually healthier. But I understand how some folk may prefer meat for lifestyle / taste reasons.

Also, can I just say - (rant incoming) vegetarian food isn't just salads. It's really annoying when most TV shows or movies (or even random people on the internet) portray vegetarians this way. First of all, it's always expressed with an air of condescension and that's fucking obnoxious. Second of all, you don't know shit about cooking or haven't the faintest clue of good vegetarian dishes if a frickin' salad is the first and only thing that comes to mind.

I'm completely okay with other people eating meat, and will never look down on them or think they're less "moral" than I am, but Jesus Christ, is it too hard to ask for the same level of respect?

This gets to me and I'm a Meat eater. My brother is Vegan, and day-to-day his diet is far more varied and interesting than most people I know. He's also much healthier than he used to be because of it. He doesn't even have to try and eat specific things to counter the lack of animal products, just eats what he wants to when he wants to.

The sheer lack of respect for the choice- and the fact that such hatred is so widely accepted is baffling to me.

EDIT: Now on topic, I regularly eat stuff that markets itself as meat replacements, and in general they're not as tasty as the real thing, but sometimes they are miles more enjoyable. My favorite thing (that isn't cake) I have ever eaten was a particularly good curry and- guess what- it was vegan.

 

[Another]

I eat meat. I love a good steak, and I was raised in a family that likes to grill, with a father that showed me how. So it's not only a food thing, but a family and a communal thing as well. I enjoy the act of grilling and cooking it, and then having family and friends enjoy it.

I live in a community that is very into whole and organic foods, so I try to buy local grass fed beef and free range chicken when I can. There are some cuts that are prohibitively expensive (ever try to buy a large amount of grass fed local baby back rib?) and I have to settle for a lesser product, but that normally occurs when I'm trying to cook for more that 2 or three people (myself included).

I would be willing to try synthetic meat, but if the taste and texture is not as good then I wouldn't continue with it. More sustainable meat is a great idea, but as a consumer I will admit that the quality of the end product also concerns me.

 

[Blue_vision]

I don't eat meat, because I don't like the taste, as well as environmental and ethical reasons. I wouldn't eat synthetic meat (if anything, I feel like it taste even grosser than regular meat).
My favourite non-meat protein source has got to be beans; baked beans and gallo pinto are definitely some of my favourite foods. As a good protein source, lentils are also great. In terms of general food, I really like a good stir fry or curry.

Also, since cultured meat is becoming a thing that costs less and less, the vegetarians can finally stop bitching soon, so we can all win there.

As we saw in the other eating thread, there are people who just don't like meat and not just because of ecological reasons or empathy reasons.

The context of the remark was directed at those who do ***** about it for ecological and empathetical reasons. Those who simply dislike meat because of personal tastes aren't usually the ones bitching about the subject.

I'm a vegetarian, and I personally just don't like meat, but I encourage others to eat less meat for environmental/slightly ethical reasons. I'd just like to comment that I think it'll be a very long while before a significant number of people start eating synthetic meat, and I think you'll find that even then, synthetic meat may be considerably less energy efficient than just eating veggies. If the entire world ate synthetic meat, I wouldn't make a fuss about it (I still wouldn't eat it), but I encourage people to eat less meat because I think that's a more reasonable/practical solution to some of the environmental problems associated with meat than synthetic meat is.

 

[Laser Priest]

By the gods, it worries me how much these meat-eaters and vegetarians/vegans seem to take each other's very existence as a personal offense.

ANYWAY:
Do you eat meat?
Yes.

If yes, why?
Because I am not good at preparing meals or balancing my diet, and the only person in the household who can cook likes meat.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
If it was remotely healthy, probably. I'm kind of stuck in that place where I can find no decent natural food, but synthetic food always worries me a bit.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
Not really. If I have meat though, I prefer it with things. Such as mixed with noodles and peppers, or in a sandwich. Meat alone isn't very good.

 

[flying_whimsy]

I'm just going to sidestep all of the other (somewhat heated) discussion here and just respond to the OP:

Yes, I eat meat. I've grown up eating it and I like the flavor and texture.

Yes, I would eat synthetic meat and already have a taste for the vegetarian 'fake' meats (though I find them inferior to actual meat most of the time). I look forward to the day I get to try cloned meat grown in a lab.

My main preference is that I can't eat meat with bones in it and I rarely eat pork. While I like meat, I have a hard time with the killing end of it and consequently can't hunt or process my own meat. Meat is not an essential part of a meal for me, so a vegetarian alternative or simply skipping it is always acceptable.

 

[Daverson]

Do you eat meat?
Yeppers!

If yes, why?
Because it's goddamn delicious! I could go into more depth with this, but it'd ultimately only be explaining how, I, as an om-nom-nomnivore, have evolved to find meat goddamn delicious.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
I wouldn't refuse to eat it. Though, given the relative infancy of the science, I'd rather stick with real meat for now.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
Roast Pork. With lots of crackling. Yum.

I'm not going to judge someone who doesn't eat meat because they find it distasteful, but people who act like being a vegetarian somehow makes them morally superior make me sick. And it's not just because they were poorly cooked! [http://instantrimshot.com/]

 

[Blue_vision]

Also, can I just say - (rant incoming) vegetarian food isn't just salads. It's really annoying when most TV shows or movies (or even random people on the internet) portray vegetarians this way. First of all, it's always expressed with an air of condescension and that's fucking obnoxious. Second of all, you don't know shit about cooking or haven't the faintest clue of good vegetarian dishes if a frickin' salad is the first and only thing that comes to mind.

I'm completely okay with other people eating meat, and will never look down on them or think they're less "moral" than I am, but Jesus Christ, is it too hard to ask for the same level of respect?

Yeah, I know that feeling. Weirdly enough, a good half of my close friend group is vegetarian, so I'm able to interact really comfortably with them. But then I talk to other people, and I get the weirdest looks and most backhanded remarks. People wondering how I could possibly survive not eating meat, questioning my health and my manliness/status as a human in general. I don't go up to meat-eaters and ask them how they could possibly eat meat. I sometimes engage them to see if they could eat less meat (because I consider it a health/environmental thing as well as an ethical one), but I never criticize, and I never stoop to personal attacks.

Now, I know there are some vegetarians and animal rights groups that get a little more in your face, so I guess it's possible that there's a civility lacking from members of both sides. But I feel like identifying myself as a vegetarian makes me far more open to attack and criticism from others than if I were a meat eater, and I just don't understand what the problem is.

 

[Catrixa]

Do you eat meat? No.
If no, why? Basic empathy?

I wouldn't call it 'basic empathy'. Were it 'basic' I think more people would have it and therefore be vegetarians.
If anything it would be 'generalised empathy'.

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

I know you've spent a lot of time arguing because of this post, and I'm very sorry for wanting to throw something else at you, but I wouldn't have typed this if I didn't feel it was important to mention.

Putting all ideas of morality to the side for a moment, these things happened for roughly the same reason: they are both because of a human instinct. Humans ate meat, because meat was food, and you pretty much went for what was the most efficient way to get the food you needed. If meat was closer than a grain with some vitamin you needed, you went for the meat. Fearing others who are different has always been a base human reaction. It kept our tribes alive, and people still use it today to enslave and murder others. Are both of these things strictly necessary anymore? Probably not, but we seem to know more about the genetic makeup of our species (one human is not really significantly different from another) than we do about how to eat in ways that won't wind up being fatal (see: heart disease).

Now, to add morals back in: calling anything "basic," "default," "the base line for being human," is absurd. To say "our instincts are the baseline!" is to say "we should not overcome our instincts and treat others outside of our social groups as equals!" To say "society is the baseline!" is to say "inequalities that exist today should stay, because others say so!" Both of these are pointless, but to go so far as to say "my morals are the baseline, because I said so!" is to say "no one else can be right, so long as it disagrees with me!" Humans have debated what is the proper way to view the world and live our lives for eons. It has been the cause of wars and the basis of societies. If there is a "right" answer, I can guarantee no one has found it yet.

OT:
Do you eat meat?
Yup.
If yes, why?
It's easy, filling, decent on my diet, and provides variety to my day.
Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
Fat content-controlled? Sign me the hell up! I'd love some protein I can add to any meal, without having to worry as much about my diet.
Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
Salmon. Raw salmon, cooked salmon, salmon with rice/mashed potatoes/grilled asparagus, if it was a salmon, I want to eat it.
If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?
When I'm not eating meat, I like veggie burgers (NOT BOCA BURGER. The kind that have a billion vegetables in them. Boca burger patties are like eating flavored rubber floor mats), boca crumbles covered in seasoning ('bout the only kind of boca that isn't blarg), beans, more beans, cheese with beans, beans with beans, and sometimes vegetables with beans. When I go to eat some refried beans, I do so by the can...

Really though, stuff I don't eat: Cantaloupe, honeydew melon, unpickled cucumber in large quantities, and zucchini I can taste. Pretty sure I wouldn't eat human for health reasons, but other than that, I'll try it at least once.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Do you eat meat?
Yes

If yes, why?
I've been eating meat all my life, I love the taste of certain meats, but all meats in generally and I really can't see myself ever stopping.

If no, why?
Does Not Apply

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
If there are no health risks, it tastes as good as the real deal, can be cooked like the real deal, and is either the same price or cheaper than the real deal, than yes, I would at least give it a try.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
Well, I'm just very comfortable with the meats that I've eaten my entire life and cooked in both my cultural way and in other cultural manners. Aside from those meats, I've also tried more exotic meats, such as unagi (eel) and scallops.

If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?
Soups, usually with hearty veggies (i.e. carrots, potatoes, etc.), or seafood, if not considered as meat.

 

[Arakasi]

Well most of the time it is really not practical to torture or harm others, especially since you do have empathy which, even were it pleasurable to do so, would make it proportionally displeasurable. With animals it's an entirely different case. Also, empathy for empathy's sake I think will lead to very strange outcomes, evolutionarily speaking. Hell, it already has. Birds limp around as if they have broken legs to manipulate free food out of us foolish organisms who can't tell the difference. The more they pretend to be in pain the more we'll want to help, and what's the best way for evolution to make us think an animal is in pain? Actually cause them pain in our presence. This is all of course, just wild speculation, but I think the outcomes of sympathy will end up far worse than any consequence of not having it now.

You mean these pigeons who always get the most breadcrumbs from young kids with an overdeveloped sense of justice? http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5258/5520928047_aa295d3c30_z.jpg

They aren't pretending, they just have a fungal infection. But yes, if they are the ones who survive to reproduce the most, then that will negatively affect their species somewhat. Nonetheless I think you're blowing the consequences for both us and them out of proportion. And betraying yourself a bit by worrying about a future that does not practically concern you.

But if hurting another person was practical and pleasurable, you would do it? Then I do not exactly have a reason (or desire) to speak with you.

What I'm trying to say here is that rewarding only those who show pain is a poor idea, it is better to reward action we consider good than action we consider pitiful.

And no, I would not harm another human were it practical and pleasurable. Partially because it goes against the morality I developed, but primarily because of the social contract. Though I cannot say how a version of me without any empathy would act, maybe a version of me without morality would harm a human, I can only say from the point of view of me, me being where I can not understand getting pleasure from harming someone. I might also add an interesting dilemma, you can go to eternal paradise, but you have to flick someone in the arm to go there, but you can't ask permission or forewarn the person. Do you do it?
Oh, and I might also add that there's no reason to be so hostile.

Many, many, many more steps. But complexity has never been a good argument for their being something more.

How is that not a good argument? Do you think shooting an AI opponent in the Goldeneye game is the same as snuffing out a human life? Complexity is everything. I think, therefore I am.

No, because of the social contract. Complexity does not make something intrinsically more valuable (perhaps to own, but not from some sort of objective moral standpoint). A robot could also say it processes therefore it is, all that argument is a matter of perspective, I perceive therefore there must be something doing the perceiving. Nothing to do with complexity beyond simple perception.

They may seem in the moment evolutionary oversights, but they are just part of the mechanism to get along in society. Though there may be a few that haven't caught up with modern society, I'm not sure how you'd identify them other than them being simply maladaptive.[/quote

The joy of beauty and the pursuit of meaning is just a mechanism? Again, not wrong, but incredibly pessimistic, reductionist and boring.

I beg to differ. One can still pursue pleasures (beauty, sport, whatever) knowing they are meaningless outside of just pleasure, or knowing that they are simply a mechanism, there's no need to delude oneself.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Now, to add morals back in: calling anything "basic," "default," "the base line for being human," is absurd. To say "our instincts are the baseline!" is to say "we should not overcome our instincts and treat others outside of our social groups as equals!" To say "society is the baseline!" is to say "inequalities that exist today should stay, because others say so!" Both of these are pointless, but to go so far as to say "my morals are the baseline, because I said so!" is to say "no one else can be right, so long as it disagrees with me!" Humans have debated what is the proper way to view the world and live our lives for eons. It has been the cause of wars and the basis of societies. If there is a "right" answer, I can guarantee no one has found it yet.

No, I stand by what I said. I don't know why so many people objected to my calling it basic empathy. It is basic in the sense that it is simple and easy. It doesn't require any special training to read an animals body language. When an animal is frightened, it tenses up. When an animal is in pain, it screams just like a human.

We know that animals feel pain just as well as a human because of science, and we know they feel fear and they can suffer just as well as a human, thanks to science. On top of this we can empathise with them thanks to, yes, the basic framework for empathy that everyone is born with, unless they have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so properly.

This is merely a fact. For me the fact that I can empathise with animals is enough to prevent me from eating them, like I said in my initial post. For others, it isn't. That does not mean I am claiming my morals are baseline, whatever that means. It genuinely blows my mind sometimes how defensive meat eaters get. No one in this thread has read and responded to what I said within any reasonable margin of error. I'm the first to acknowledge when I've worded something badly, but people here are latching onto certain words here or there and inventing their own wild meanings around them. I'm fucking tired of it, so I'm not going to respond anymore.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I do eat meat. Mainly because it tastes good and I don't suffer the idea that another creature shouldn't have to die for me to eat.

Having said that, I do try to keep my factory farm purchases to an absolute minimum.

If by Synthetic Meat you mean cloned meat then yeah, I got no problem with it. If you mean textured soy protien...I'll eat it but I'd rather not. I can taste the difference and it's rarely good.

 

[VodkaKnight]

I eat meat, because it tastes good. Also nutrition and stuff.
I would eat synthetic meat. It'd help stop factory farming, and we could use the saved space for farming and stuff.
I think Roast Duck with lentils is brilliant.

 

[ViridianV6]

Do you eat meat?

Yes, I eat chicken, beef or pork at least once a day.

If yes, why?

I like the taste of it, and feel as though the lack of it makes a dish boring.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?

Provided it tasted similar enough to real meat I would have no objections to eating it, though I've never had an opportunity to try it.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)

My favourite meat would most likely be pig because of all the cured meats that are derived from it, though my favourite dish would be a rare eye fillet steak with mashed potatoes and salad.

If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?

Anything that has a similar consistency to meat, particularly vegetable curry and vegie burgers. Soup with bread is also a good alternative, given the heartiness of dishes such as minestrone and pumpkin soup.

 

[Nosirrah]

Do you eat meat? Yep, it's delicious.
If yes, why? Because reasons.
Would you eat Synthetic Meat? yeah, don't understand the problem with this, it's meat but without anything dying in the process.
Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish) Call me weird, but raw meat looks much more appetising. But I quite like duck.

 

[Olas]

Do you eat meat?

No, or very rarely.

If yes, why?

Because it's in nearly everything and hard to avoid.

If no, why?

Because I generally don't like the taste or texture

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?

If it tasted good. Not if it tasted like real meat.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)

I can't stand any type of fish or seafood. I find beef merely tolerable. I only eat chicken if it's been highly processed ie: doesn't have the actual chicken texture.

If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?[/b]

Pretty much everything save for maybe some kinds of vegetables raw.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I hunt and I love preparing and eating meat. I still would not want to consider myself a monster, as I do love and respect animals and oftentimes find myself preferring to be in their presence than in that of my fellow humans.

I'm still working on making excellent sausages instead of just decent ones. Too bad grandpa died so randomly and took his time tested recipes with him.

I also like vegetables but I have developed an aversion, nay, an allergy to the assorted misanthropic bs 'militant vegans' and other uebermensch antisocial elements that feel this strong urge to tell me what to do and how to do it randomly spout even when not specifically asked about their opinion.

It's almost as if getting rid of God, the church and our own culture has somehow managed to make them quite intolerant to who and what they are... or are supposed to be.

I don't really think anything much can be gained from discussing this. If you like eat, do eat meat. It's healthy and delicious.

The only thing I feel I have to disagree with is your stance on kangaroo meat. Not sure what happened there, but when you prepare it properly, it's very much like horse. Lean, dark red, in need of nothing but a little oil, a little heat, salt and pepper and maybe some thyme or rosemary if you're feeling fancy.

 

[sumanoskae]

Being upper middle class, North American (USA), and not much of a humanitarian, eating meat is the least of my sins. Living without causing suffering, directly or via cause and effect, is close to impossible.

Pain and suffering are natural parts of life, and to eliminate them would be to change the very nature of existence.

The very fact that some people starve to death whilst I have more food available to me than I could realistically eat is an injustice. I resolved a long time ago that trying to rid the world of injustice was akin to trying to break down a steel wall with my skull; the only thing accomplish in the long run would be more struggling.

The world will continue to do what it always has regardless of what I do, so I will find whatever beauty I can in it, and hold onto it.