"Medicine" in America

[Paragon Fury]

So I've learned two things today:

1: I suck at this "being an adult". Leave for a haircut this morning. 5 hours, a trip to the hospital and 6 stitches later, still no haircut.

2: "Medicine" must be code for "profiteering racket". Because in the ambulance on my way to the hospital, the technician is offering me a paid yearly ambulance subscription service so I don't have to pay to use the ambulance if I need it.

I'll give that a moment to sink in. I'm sitting here with some my meat hanging out - covered, but still not where it should be (I look a bit like uncooked chicken on the inside apparently) - and they're trying to sell me something. I know I'm going to have to pay out the ass for the Emergency Room, the Doctor, the Stitches and the Care........and now she is reminding that the very needed trip to the hospital isn't even free.

If we're not even getting people to the hospital without charging them............

 

[shootthebandit]

An ambulance is not a fucking taxi and healthcare is not a money making enterprise. If you lived in a civilised country your healthcare would be paid for in taxes and government funding

 

[Albino Boo]

So I've learned two things today:

1: I suck at this "being an adult". Leave for a haircut this morning. 5 hours, a trip to the hospital and 6 stitches later, still no haircut.

2: "Medicine" must be code for "profiteering racket". Because in the ambulance on my way to the hospital, the technician is offering me a paid yearly ambulance subscription service so I don't have to pay to use the ambulance if I need it.

I'll give that a moment to sink in. I'm sitting here with some my meat hanging out - covered, but still not where it should be (I look a bit like uncooked chicken on the inside apparently) - and they're trying to sell me something. I know I'm going to have to pay out the ass for the Emergency Room, the Doctor, the Stitches and the Care........and now she is reminding that the very needed trip to the hospital isn't even free.

If we're not even getting people to the hospital without charging them............

Everyone pays for medical care its just a question of when. Ambulances cost money to buy and run and the people that operate them need to make a living, all of which costs money. The rest is how and when you pay.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

This is the problem with universal health care. Those bills you mentioned don't go away. You don't pay them directly, but they still exist. This is good enough for some because if the sheep don't see the bill then they believe the bill doesn't exist.

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

 

[shootthebandit]

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

Or the government step in and pay everyones healthcare with tax payers money. Sure you pay more tax but you know that when you go to hospital you dont have to pay a penny to get healthcare

 

[Daystar Clarion]

If many Americans weren't so damn gung ho about paying less taxes, then it wouldn't be an issue.

It's 2013 and they still have no universal healthcare. It boggles the mind that a first world country lacks such a system.

Here's a thought.

You know that obscenely huge military they have? You know, the big one.

Take like 5% of that budget, and there's your universal healthcare. No extra taxes, just the money redistributed elsewhere.

You should probably look after the people in your own country before making something to kill the populace of another.

 

[frobalt]

This is the problem with universal health care. Those bills you mentioned don't go away. You don't pay them directly, but they still exist. This is good enough for some because if the sheep don't see the bill then they believe the bill doesn't exist.

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

It would be ridiculously hypocritical of the government to do that, since they could also do with a pay cut.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

Or the government step in and pay everyones healthcare with tax payers money. Sure you pay more tax but you know that when you go to hospital you dont have to pay a penny to get healthcare

The relevant question is this, why don't you pay for your healthcare out of your own pocket. You don't because you cant afford it. In America at least, the cost of healthcare is so high that nobody can afford to pay it. Nobody can afford to spend $2000 to sleep in a hospital bed for one night.

This is why universal healthcare wont work, at least for America. How is the government supposed to use our money to pay for something we cant afford? If their isn't enough money in our pockets to pay the bill then how can the government, which gets all of its money from our pockets, afford to pay the bill?

 

[Frezzato]

snip

There was a great story on NPR about hospital bills. It concerned a woman who started her own advocacy service, Medical Billing Advocates of America, after her own hospital emergency room experience.

I'm not suggesting you scrutinize your bill just to weasel out of paying anything, I'm merely suggesting that even hospital bills can contain errors [http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/tips-for-lowering-your-medical-bills/].

Thanks a lot, Captcha. Face the music, indeed.

 

[Jamash]

If you're planning to be in an emergency or suffer a serious injury, you should see if you could pre-order an ambulance and get it cheaper.

If you're lucky you may even get some sort of pre-order bonus (like a free Limited Edition Bandage and Painkillers pack), or some Day 1 LHC (Lifesaving Health Care), such as pre-order and place a deposit on your ambulance and receive 3 free jolts with the Premium Defibrillator, instead of the standard CPR.

A Season Pass for ambulances does seem a bit much, but they have to make money somehow, what with all those patients who take a taxi or drive to hospital, or even worse, look-up first aid on the Internet and treat their injury at home, all of which robs the hospital of sales and means they don't have the money pay their staff and save lives.

 

[shootthebandit]

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

Or the government step in and pay everyones healthcare with tax payers money. Sure you pay more tax but you know that when you go to hospital you dont have to pay a penny to get healthcare

The relevant question is this, why don't you pay for your healthcare out of your own pocket. You don't because you cant afford it. In America at least, the cost of healthcare is so high that nobody can afford to pay it. Nobody can afford to spend $2000 to sleep in a hospital bed for one night.

This is why universal healthcare wont work, at least for America. How is the government supposed to use our money to pay for something we cant afford? If their isn't enough money in our pockets to pay the bill then how can the government, which gets all of its money from our pockets, afford to pay the bill?

It seems to work here in the UK and a lot of other countries. Sure the system is far from perfect and the wards arent like a five star hotel but it does the job. What is america doing so wrong that we are doing right...or vice versa?

 

[ten.to.ten]

This is the problem with universal health care. Those bills you mentioned don't go away. You don't pay them directly, but they still exist. This is good enough for some because if the sheep don't see the bill then they believe the bill doesn't exist.

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

What you just described is universal healthcare. Not all universal healthcare follows the single payer method where everyone is a member of the government's public insurer which is funded by taxes. Most countries that do have universal healthcare use a system which consists of strict price controls and regulations on private insurers and hospitals, combined with private insurance being mandatory for each person with the government paying for the insurance of those who can't afford it, Kind of like Obamacare plus Medicaid/Medicare on steroids.

America's not so special that universal healthcare couldn't work if the government actually tried, instead of half-assing it like the current Obamacare.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

It seems to work here in the UK and a lot of other countries. Sure the system is far from perfect and the wards arent like a five star hotel but it does the job. What is america doing so wrong that we are doing right...or vice versa?

Healthcare is just insanely expensive here, way more than any other country. I could guess at some reason why but I'm sure the root causes are a topic of discussion for more educated individuals. I just have to leave it by saying "That's how it is here"

It's why the analogies to other countries with working healthcare systems don't always work. The government cant afford to provide all its citizens with a free MRIs when an MRI costs 10 times as much as in other countries. I think its been shown that America actually spends more on healthcare than many other countries yet has less coverage, all because of prices.

 

[Ryotknife]

This is the problem with universal health care. Those bills you mentioned don't go away. You don't pay them directly, but they still exist. This is good enough for some because if the sheep don't see the bill then they believe the bill doesn't exist.

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

America's not so special that universal healthcare couldn't work if the government actually tried, instead of half-assing it like the current Obamacare.

Kinda like when the government tried to improve the education system and ended up completely destroying it? There is no evidence to suggest that any (current) government attempt at universal healthcare would not end in disaster. About the only major undertaking that our government has done to any competent level in the past decade was PRISM. Im going to let that soak in for a bit.

Maybe if we had a time machine and went back a few decades, then sure I would entertain the thought of the government trying universal healthcare.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I think America's political system is just far too fucked at this point for any sort of universal healthcare system to work out.

Sucks for them though. I'm always shocked to hear how much various surgeries cost in America. It's fucking ridiculous.

 

[shootthebandit]

It seems to work here in the UK and a lot of other countries. Sure the system is far from perfect and the wards arent like a five star hotel but it does the job. What is america doing so wrong that we are doing right...or vice versa?

Healthcare is just insanely expensive here, way more than any other country. I could guess at some reason why but I'm sure the root causes are a topic of discussion for more educated individuals. I just have to leave it by saying "That's how it is here"

It's why the analogies to other countries with working healthcare systems don't always work. The government cant afford to provide all its citizens with a free MRIs when an MRI costs 10 times as much as in other countries. I think its been shown that America actually spends more on healthcare than many other countries yet has less coverage, all because of prices.

I wasnt using other countries as an analogy i was just asking if there is something fundmentally different in america because i dont have a clue. My guess would be that people are willing to pay an arm and a leg (for want of a better term) to get surgery. If you think about it someone says to you "i can save you or your families life but its gonna cost you 1 million bucks" you can garuntee that you will be doing everything in your power including whoring out your sweet little ass at every truck stop to get that million

However ever when you pay your taxes and the government takes the tab you no longer have the "ill sell you your childs life for as much as i want" mentality. Then prices go down as a result

Edit: hospitals in america are basically buisnesses and are there to make a huge profit whereas in the UK they actually run at loss or break even

 

[Paragon Fury]

And for my two cents; no I don't think its going to change. The time in America when we could've made a change like this is long gone.

The problem isn't the government - its the culture as a whole. The one thing about "old America" that we don't have anymore that we need is is our attitude. We USED to care more about what we could do for each other, the country and the long term prosperity of our country; thats the attitude that let us get so far ahead of other countries for such a long time and built many of the things we have today.

Now we only care about ourselves or our small groups and to hell with everyone else.

 

[Xdeser2]

Honestly, I find the concept of Medicine and medical attention being a "Business" fucking abhorrent. You have to be a real Asshole to charge someone a ridiculous amount of money after saving their life.

 

[frizzlebyte]

This is the problem with universal health care. Those bills you mentioned don't go away. You don't pay them directly, but they still exist. This is good enough for some because if the sheep don't see the bill then they believe the bill doesn't exist.

So the problem isn't insurance companies a lack of a health care system. The problem is that those guys in the Ambulance, the doctors that treated you, and the hospital administrators, are all a bunch of greedy assholes. If the government wants to help us it should bring the hammer down on all the doctors and Ambulance drivers. Force them to do their job for a set price or go out of business.

America's not so special that universal healthcare couldn't work if the government actually tried, instead of half-assing it like the current Obamacare.

Kinda like when the government tried to improve the education system and ended up completely destroying it? There is no evidence to suggest that any (current) government attempt at universal healthcare would not end in disaster. About the only major undertaking that our government has done to any competent level in the past decade was PRISM. Im going to let that soak in for a bit.

Maybe if we had a time machine and went back a few decades, then sure I would entertain the thought of the government trying universal healthcare.

Pretty much this. I used to be a proponent of universal healthcare, but I really don't think it would be that much of an improvement, particularly since "waiting lists" are currently only a thing for organ transplants. I really don't want waiting lists to proliferate the rest of the healthcare industry.

And I have been personally helped by Obamacare, so I absolutely think reform is the way to go, just not a one-payer system.

 

[Hero of Lime]

One problem with our system is that yes the price of surgeries, procedures, etc. are very expensive, but it's mainly because hospitals know that the government will foot the bill so they can charge a lot more. I'm not sure about ambulances being weird about payment like that, but no hospital in the U.S. will refuse a person in need, and if the person has no insurance the bill will get passed on to other taxpayers. The root problem isn't that people here are too greedy to pay more taxes, we just know that medical providers charge way too much for services because they can, it's the same problem with our University system and student loans.

I don't know all the answers, but I don't care about the politics and what not, in the U.S. we cannot get universal health care without changing how the hospitals can charge medicare/medicaid whichever they do. I wish everyone could get every bit of health care they need, but I know that the systems others in this thread are talking about have some pretty bad shortcomings. Here in California it would be a nightmare to implement universal healthcare, other states could do it for sure, but I don't even want to think about that train wreck.