Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain New Trailer at Sony Conference

[dumbseizure]

Er, if you watch the trailer, she starts in a full soldier uniform, hell she was being drowned in it by someone.

Whether she escapes from whatever is happening and ends up like that I don't know, but it doesn't seem like she starts wearing that.

So, I'm going to reserve judgement on what she is wearing until the game comes out and more of the back story is revealed, cause if she escapes torture and ends up wearing that, kinda makes more sense than that being her normal evening desert attire.

Which is irrelevant; she still ends up wearing that outfit for no reason other than objectification. That's what Kojima admitted; it's all for cosplay and figurine sales.

Ya know what? That would be fair (had it not been for the post above me), but just like most SJW's looking to *****, you don't seem to understand what sexism IS.
Is Kojima trying to say that men are better than women? No. Is he trying to make her a stereotype? No. Unless awesome ninja chick with a gun that make your head explode by shooting NEAR you is a lesser woman stereotype.
Could it be a bit 'eye-candy' and a little weird? Sure! Is it sexist? No.

Or you could stay rational and have a calm discussion about the subject instead of resorting to saying I'm 'bitching' and all that.

I have quite a clear idea of what sexism [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism] is, and Kojima's decision regarding this character falls in that category, especially considering the second definition. It's a clear-cut case of objectification thanks to Kojima's admission of why she wears the clothes she does. It's not about practicality or anything like that, and the post above yours is irrelevant to the argument as well, it's simply to boost sales and cosplay titillation.

Really? Cause I remember Hideo kojima saying "I know there?s people concerning about ?Quiet? but don?t worry. I created her character as an antithesis to the women characters appeared in the past fighting game who are excessively exposed. ?Quiet? who doesn?t have a word will be teased in the story as well. But once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Hell, I also remember Stefanie Joosten (the model for quiet) saying "that there were reasons behind why Quiet dresses the way she does".

Something can be done for more than 1 reason, you seem to take Kojimas word for the cosplay thing, but not him also saying theres a good reason behind it.

But whatever, I'm done with this conversation as you have already decided on your stance.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm so sick of seeing people call this sexist. How is it sexist, when the game takes place in the desert, for a sniper to wear as little clothing as possible? Man or woman? Honestly, it follows. I'm more concerned at the fact, evidently, she's a ninja.

That's probably the stupidest thing anyone could do in the desert, sniper or no. Because, you know, sun burn and all.

Why do you think people who live in the desert wear robes?

Anyway, yeah the sniper looks dumb in her bikini and ripped stocking look. Especially with the tone that the game is trying to establish. Now apparently she has some sort of skin camo ability, but that does make it ever so convenient for her to show as much skin as possible.

Still looking forward to this game though.

 

[demented]

I love MGS games for the way they blend serious elements with full blown craziness. The Phantom Pain seems to be abandoning the absurdity in past games for a purely dark serious tone.

If this is true then it's a shame and while the game will probably still be enjoyable, it will lose part of what really drew me (and probably many others) to the franchise.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Really? Cause I remember Hideo kojima saying "I know there?s people concerning about ?Quiet? but don?t worry. I created her character as an antithesis to the women characters appeared in the past fighting game who are excessively exposed. ?Quiet? who doesn?t have a word will be teased in the story as well. But once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Hell, I also remember Stefanie Joosten (the model for quiet) saying "that there were reasons behind why Quiet dresses the way she does".

Something can be done for more than 1 reason, you seem to take Kojimas word for the cosplay thing, but not him also saying theres a good reason behind it.

But whatever, I'm done with this conversation as you have already decided on your stance.

If there's another reason; okay, but I don't believe that one reason cancels out the other. I am curious now what the supposed reason is why Quiet wants to put herself in harms way by dressing like the least effective sniper possible, but that doesn't take away that he expressed objectifying reasons for why she's designed the way she is.

Considering the relationship between the representation of women and game designers, I'm a skeptic, but don't take me for an unreasonable one. I did not know he said the quote above. Would you mind giving a source for that, I want to put it in context.

 

[dumbseizure]

Really? Cause I remember Hideo kojima saying "I know there?s people concerning about ?Quiet? but don?t worry. I created her character as an antithesis to the women characters appeared in the past fighting game who are excessively exposed. ?Quiet? who doesn?t have a word will be teased in the story as well. But once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Hell, I also remember Stefanie Joosten (the model for quiet) saying "that there were reasons behind why Quiet dresses the way she does".

Something can be done for more than 1 reason, you seem to take Kojimas word for the cosplay thing, but not him also saying theres a good reason behind it.

But whatever, I'm done with this conversation as you have already decided on your stance.

If there's another reason; okay, but I don't believe that one reason cancels out the other. I am curious now what the supposed reason is why Quiet wants to put herself in harms way by dressing like the least effective sniper possible, but that doesn't take away that he expressed objectifying reasons for why she's designed the way she is.

Considering the relationship between the representation of women and game designers, I'm a skeptic, but don't take me for an unreasonable one. I did not know he said the quote above. Would you mind giving a source for that, I want to put it in context.

The source was his own twitter account, I can't be bothered to go through and find all of them, but this is the start of his quote https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/376424191664222208

Well, his english twitter account, he has one in japanese and one in english.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Really? Cause I remember Hideo kojima saying "I know there?s people concerning about ?Quiet? but don?t worry. I created her character as an antithesis to the women characters appeared in the past fighting game who are excessively exposed. ?Quiet? who doesn?t have a word will be teased in the story as well. But once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Hell, I also remember Stefanie Joosten (the model for quiet) saying "that there were reasons behind why Quiet dresses the way she does".

Something can be done for more than 1 reason, you seem to take Kojimas word for the cosplay thing, but not him also saying theres a good reason behind it.

But whatever, I'm done with this conversation as you have already decided on your stance.

If there's another reason; okay, but I don't believe that one reason cancels out the other. I am curious now what the supposed reason is why Quiet wants to put herself in harms way by dressing like the least effective sniper possible, but that doesn't take away that he expressed objectifying reasons for why she's designed the way she is.

Considering the relationship between the representation of women and game designers, I'm a skeptic, but don't take me for an unreasonable one. I did not know he said the quote above. Would you mind giving a source for that, I want to put it in context.

The source was his own twitter account, I can't be bothered to go through and find all of them, but this is the start of his quote https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/376424191664222208

Well, his english twitter account, he has one in japanese and one in english.

Ah, Twitter, well so far for context, but that's inherent to the medium I suppose. I'll be keeping an eye on this situation then.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

I love MGS games for the way they blend serious elements with full blown craziness. The Phantom Pain seems to be abandoning the absurdity in past games for a purely dark serious tone.

Well, Kojima sure does say that, and from the look of these trailers, it all definitely seems to be a lot more serious than previous MGS games.

But I wouldn't say the absurdity is completely absent yet.


I think no matter how hard Kojima tries, he cannot shake off the inherent insanity and absurdity present in all of his MGS stories.

But I'm cool with bonkers, I'm just not cool with sexism. If all the lads wear relatively standard military gear and you dress a female character like that, you're doing something wrong.

I think your problems with Quiet's design are valid. Kojima claims there is a reason for Quiet to look the way she does, it all may just boil down to flimsy justification for her to show as much skin as possible. I'm not really sure what to expect but I'm curious to see what her story will reveal.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this. It's probably the one game I'm most anticipating for a long while.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm so sick of seeing people call this sexist. How is it sexist, when the game takes place in the desert, for a sniper to wear as little clothing as possible? Man or woman? Honestly, it follows. I'm more concerned at the fact, evidently, she's a ninja.

Not only is it pretty sexist considering she's the only female character and the only one doing it, it's also incredibly fucking stupid.

 

[Dinosorcerer]

I'm so sick of seeing people call this sexist. How is it sexist, when the game takes place in the desert, for a sniper to wear as little clothing as possible? Man or woman? Honestly, it follows. I'm more concerned at the fact, evidently, she's a ninja.

In case that you're serious I'll respond in kind:

- That is not the way snipers dress, quite evidently when you look at actual snipers who do their job in the desert. [https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2772/4497621277_d8860a437a_z.jpg] Do you notice the distinct lack of nudity in that picture and the distinct presence of camouflage? That's because snipers would actually not be detected, something a black bikini is not adept at. Who would've thought.

- Going in the desert with as little clothing as possible is, by itself, foolish. I don't know about you, but the thought of burning, overheating and sun-stroke is not something that sounds appealing to me. There's a reason why people actually living in deserts dress like this [http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x5QasFNTMEg/TZTV0Ws876I/AAAAAAAAAD8/W2BPHo9N9bw/s320/3bedouins..lose%2Bclothes%2Band%2Blight%2Bcolored.jpg]; loose, light clothing that breaths and prevents the sun from getting on your skin. So the exact opposite of what our little lady sniper is having here.

- Kojima friggin' admitted he's doing it for titillation for the sake of cosplay and figurine sales. [http://www.polygon.com/2013/9/4/4693704/metal-gear-solid-5-characters-more-erotic-encourage-cosplay-hideo-kojima]


So there you have it, Kojima being a perverted creep making some sexist design choices.

Er, if you watch the trailer, she starts in a full soldier uniform, hell she was being drowned in it by someone.

Whether she escapes from whatever is happening and ends up like that I don't know, but it doesn't seem like she starts wearing that.

Fair! I forgot about that.

the important thing to see would be if that's just for the small part of the game she escapes captivity, and then maybe se changes into something sensible; or if that's for the whole game, in which case, yes that outfit is ridiculous. everyone else is dressed for the job.
i personally have more of a problem with the clothing if it doesn't fit the logic of the story. if it makes sense to have the character let it all hang out, then by all means. i have more of a problem with her being a mute. now they could do something clever with how she communicates, but I'm afraid she might just turn into a pair of tits with legs. i'll be happy if she's able to speak her mind and has interesting things to say.
as an aside, did anyone else find it weird that towards the end of the trailer, when Snake shoots those three guys who're grappling with him that there's a fourth guy just walking around right next to them while Snake shoots him in the head? why was he there? what was he doing? he must be either deaf and blind, or snake's shooting friendlies.

 

[spoonybard.hahs]

Well, his english twitter account, he has one in japanese and one in english.
Ah, Twitter, well so far for context, but that's inherent to the medium I suppose. I'll be keeping an eye on this situation then.

Here are the tweets [http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/09/07/hideo-kiojima-explains-quiet-blames-negative-reaction-on-cultural-differences-details-metal-gear-solid-vs-themes/] he was talking about.

Kojima pretty much says, "This is my critique on these kinds of female characters. And that once you discover why she dresses like this, you (playing as Snake) will feel like shit. Also, racism. Oh, and your backlash against this character is actually the point I'm trying to make with the entire game."

 

[DrOswald]

I love MGS games for the way they blend serious elements with full blown craziness. The Phantom Pain seems to be abandoning the absurdity in past games for a purely dark serious tone.

If this is true then it's a shame and while the game will probably still be enjoyable, it will lose part of what really drew me (and probably many others) to the franchise.

Do you remember the MGS4 trailer? It was Solid Snake struggling to put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger, cut to black screen and gunshot sound.

MGS trailers are always over the top serious and the games always end up wacky crazy.

 

[aba1]

Am I the only one who thinks it is silly to call fiction sexist? It isn't real... we are talking about a woman who literally doesn't exist. Criticizing fictional women for not being portrayed realistically would be like me complaining Batman is a unrealistic representation of men. Obviously he isn't realistic he is fictional.

 

[DEAD34345]

What I suppose makes it more bonkers is that this looks really damn serious with some really damn serious themes. What I heard from Ground Zeroes was...well, it certainly was something. And yet at the same time you have that sort of thing.

That sums up Metal Gear Solid pretty well. It's insanely silly at times, and it's insanely serious at others. Sometimes it's both at the same time. That's part of the charm to me, but if it puts you (or anyone else) off or offends you, that's fair enough I suppose.

But I'm cool with bonkers, I'm just not cool with sexism. If all the lads wear relatively standard military gear and you dress a female character like that, you're doing something wrong.

But in the end; I ain't got a PS4 anyway. Yet. Maybe.

It's not really a case of "all the lads" wearing standard military gear and all the female characters being sexualised, I'd say it's more a case of certain characters specific characters being that way, and it's not limited to females either. Possibly the most sexualised character in the entire series was Vamp, and he was a guy. Snake himself is also pretty sexualised, particularly in Metal Gear Solid 4, not to mention Raiden (the protagonist of Metal Gear Solid 2) with his skin-tight skull suit and occasional bouts of naked cartwheeling.

 

[L. Declis]

I don't really understand that horn.. But no matter.

Looking forward to this, it will be extremely interesting to finally see how Big Boss became evil.

Well, you've got the obvious sub-text that he is slowly becoming a daemon, or perhaps even the Devil...

It's probably some shrapnel that they dare not remove.

Ya know what? That would be fair (had it not been for the post above me), but just like most SJW's looking to *****, you don't seem to understand what sexism IS.
Is Kojima trying to say that men are better than women? No. Is he trying to make her a stereotype? No. Unless awesome ninja chick with a gun that make your head explode by shooting NEAR you is a lesser woman stereotype.
Could it be a bit 'eye-candy' and a little weird? Sure! Is it sexist? No.

Ever heard of 'male gaze'? That's a form of sexism. And with character designs like Sniper Wolf, the Beauty and the Beast Unit, Quiet, etc, MGS certainly suffers from male gaze.

And then you realize that Raiden and Snake spend most of their time having the camera gaze at their arse and have them half-naked most of the time, and you realise that MGS sexes up the men as well. Solidus, Liquid and Solid are all designed to be "beautiful", and I am quoting the character designer here. Vamp spends his time licking his knives suggestively, using them as a psuedo-penis, and having latin-dancing and thrusting his hips constantly. Ocelot was once a beautiful little teenage boy who loves Big Boss after getting beaten up and then complimented, Liquid Snake was half naked every time you saw him.

Let's just say, if you're insecure in your sexuality as a man, you probably don't like MGS. I would almost say you will see far more man chest than you will see woman chest.

"So in the event of your death, what do you want done with your remains?"

"Could you have me cremated, and then smear my ashes on some grizzled guy's face?"

"...You're going to have to write that in under 'other'."

It's something similar to a ritual used by some tribes that they paint their faces white to symbolise that they are already dead. Using the ashes of a person who died because of his actions probably emphasises how guilty and fucked up he is getting from all of his actions and killing of people.

I'm so sick of seeing people call this sexist. How is it sexist, when the game takes place in the desert, for a sniper to wear as little clothing as possible? Man or woman? Honestly, it follows. I'm more concerned at the fact, evidently, she's a ninja.

Not only is it pretty sexist considering she's the only female character and the only one doing it, it's also incredibly fucking stupid.

You know what, I'm just going to fucking spoil it. It's not a woman, it's a trans-sexual man. You've met him before. It's suggested she is quiet due to fear of giving it away. I won't tell you who, because that will spoil it more.

Why is she half-naked? Her power is that she has natual camoflague, and can simply change the camo on her skin as needed. Why would you cover it up, as your own camo is better than that of any clothing.

I don't know... I watch this, and I think Kojima's finally gotten a bit too big for his britches.

Every time he releases something he's gotten too big for his britches.

MGS2: "UGH! He replaced Solid with Raiden! Who does he think he is?"
MGS3: "UGH! He has Eva walked around with her top unzipped (even though the idea is it is both a parody of James Bond love interests AND the idea she is distracting the enemy and Snake by showing tits to distract from her characters... which ended up working on the fans as well), who does he think he is?"
MGS4: "UGH! There are too many cutscenes and he is trying to be too serious! Who does he think he is?"
MGSPW: "UGH! The game is full of padding and you can go on a date with a man or a woman. Who does he think he is?"
MGSGZ: "UGH! He made allusions that rape happens in war camps. This is TOO serious/NOT serious ENOUGH! Who does he think he is?"
MGSPP: "UGH! He is continuing to BE TOO SERIOUS/ NOT SERIOUS ENOUGH TO TALK ABOUT THIS! Who does he think he is?"

Frankly, I am getting to the point with the Escapist getting pissy over EVERY SINGLE THING that if I ever made a game I would never include a woman, person of colour or homosexual because I would be torn to pieces for not doing it properly. I don't know what this forum wants, it just knee-jerks despite having NOT played the game and NOT knowing the full story.

 

[lord canti]

I don't really understand that horn.. But no matter.

Looking forward to this, it will be extremely interesting to finally see how Big Boss became evil.

Well, you've got the obvious sub-text that he is slowly becoming a daemon, or perhaps even the Devil...

It's probably some shrapnel that they dare not remove.

Ya know what? That would be fair (had it not been for the post above me), but just like most SJW's looking to *****, you don't seem to understand what sexism IS.
Is Kojima trying to say that men are better than women? No. Is he trying to make her a stereotype? No. Unless awesome ninja chick with a gun that make your head explode by shooting NEAR you is a lesser woman stereotype.
Could it be a bit 'eye-candy' and a little weird? Sure! Is it sexist? No.

Ever heard of 'male gaze'? That's a form of sexism. And with character designs like Sniper Wolf, the Beauty and the Beast Unit, Quiet, etc, MGS certainly suffers from male gaze.

And then you realize that Raiden and Snake spend most of their time having the camera gaze at their arse and have them half-naked most of the time, and you realise that MGS sexes up the men as well. Solidus, Liquid and Solid are all designed to be "beautiful", and I am quoting the character designer here. Vamp spends his time licking his knives suggestively, using them as a psuedo-penis, and having latin-dancing and thrusting his hips constantly. Ocelot was once a beautiful little teenage boy who loves Big Boss after getting beaten up and then complimented, Liquid Snake was half naked every time you saw him.

Let's just say, if you're insecure in your sexuality as a man, you probably don't like MGS. I would almost say you will see far more man chest than you will see woman chest.

"So in the event of your death, what do you want done with your remains?"

"Could you have me cremated, and then smear my ashes on some grizzled guy's face?"

"...You're going to have to write that in under 'other'."

It's something similar to a ritual used by some tribes that they paint their faces white to symbolise that they are already dead. Using the ashes of a person who died because of his actions probably emphasises how guilty and fucked up he is getting from all of his actions and killing of people.

I'm so sick of seeing people call this sexist. How is it sexist, when the game takes place in the desert, for a sniper to wear as little clothing as possible? Man or woman? Honestly, it follows. I'm more concerned at the fact, evidently, she's a ninja.

Not only is it pretty sexist considering she's the only female character and the only one doing it, it's also incredibly fucking stupid.

You know what, I'm just going to fucking spoil it. It's not a woman, it's a trans-sexual man. You've met him before. It's suggested she is quiet due to fear of giving it away. I won't tell you who, because that will spoil it more.

Why is she half-naked? Her power is that she has natual camoflague, and can simply change the camo on her skin as needed. Why would you cover it up, as your own camo is better than that of any clothing.

I don't know... I watch this, and I think Kojima's finally gotten a bit too big for his britches.

Every time he releases something he's gotten too big for his britches.

MGS2: "UGH! He replaced Solid with Raiden! Who does he think he is?"
MGS3: "UGH! He has Eva walked around with her top unzipped (even though the idea is it is both a parody of James Bond love interests AND the idea she is distracting the enemy and Snake by showing tits to distract from her characters... which ended up working on the fans as well), who does he think he is?"
MGS4: "UGH! There are too many cutscenes and he is trying to be too serious! Who does he think he is?"
MGSPW: "UGH! The game is full of padding and you can go on a date with a man or a woman. Who does he think he is?"
MGSGZ: "UGH! He made allusions that rape happens in war camps. This is TOO serious/NOT serious ENOUGH! Who does he think he is?"
MGSPP: "UGH! He is continuing to BE TOO SERIOUS/ NOT SERIOUS ENOUGH TO TALK ABOUT THIS! Who does he think he is?"

Frankly, I am getting to the point with the Escapist getting pissy over EVERY SINGLE THING that if I ever made a game I would never include a woman, person of colour or homosexual because I would be torn to pieces for not doing it properly. I don't know what this forum wants, it just knee-jerks despite having NOT played the game and NOT knowing the full story.

??? please tell me you're lying about quiet...because it makes to much sense.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm so sick of seeing people call this sexist. How is it sexist, when the game takes place in the desert, for a sniper to wear as little clothing as possible? Man or woman? Honestly, it follows. I'm more concerned at the fact, evidently, she's a ninja.

Not only is it pretty sexist considering she's the only female character and the only one doing it, it's also incredibly fucking stupid.

You know what, I'm just going to fucking spoil it. It's not a woman, it's a trans-sexual man. You've met him before. It's suggested she is quiet due to fear of giving it away. I won't tell you who, because that will spoil it more.

Why is she half-naked? Her power is that she has natual camoflague, and can simply change the camo on her skin as needed. Why would you cover it up, as your own camo is better than that of any clothing.

Spoil away friend, I don't find Metal Gear Solid's narrative exactly riveting. You may want to use tags for everybody else though, if that info is anything but trivia. I wouldn't distinguish a facetious answer from a straight faced answer regarding this game. And to be perfectly frank, that explanation you gave about how her camouflage skills augment the more she gets naked... sounds more like a justification than a sensible explanation. Hell, why doesn't she just loose all clothes for that matter?

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Pretty sure the "horn" isn't a horn but a piece of shrapnel.

I thought it was some piece of shrapnel too. It does seem like it differs in size from scene to scene so that's a bit weird.

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

My guess is they couldn't remove it so they filed it down, scenes are obviously from different parts of the game.

I wonder how the The trailer would go to Rooster by Alice in Chains?

I like Snakes new voice.

 

[UberGott]

Spoil away friend, I don't find Metal Gear Solid's narrative exactly riveting. You may want to use tags for everybody else though, if that info is anything but trivia. I wouldn't distinguish a facetious answer from a straight faced answer regarding this game.

The "Quiet is actually..." theory is still just that - a theory. But one that makes so goddamn much sense that I'll be disappointed when it, inevitably, turns out to not be the case.

Come on, Kojima. Stick this landing, even if you have to re-write the whole damned game just to do it!

And to be perfectly frank, that explanation you gave about how her camouflage skills augment the more she gets naked... sounds more like a justification than a sensible explanation. Hell, why doesn't she just loose all clothes for that matter?

When making MGS4, Hideo Kojima wanted the four-woman "Beauty and the Beast Corps" members to be fully nude, other than their specially designed battle gear. He went as far as vetting the capture down to models who'd agree to motion capture in the buff, if I remember. Producers at Konami shot the idea down in the end, and Kojima compromised on skin-tight body suits. Doubtless those would be derided by many as being no less sexist (and the sexual overtones are impossible to ignore even in the finished game), but the outfits themselves are actually damned similar to Snake's own Sneaking Suit. Perhaps even less blatantly fetishized than Psycho Mantis, going all the way back to the first MGS.

In short, Kojima's a lot of things... subtle is not one of them. If a woman in a bikini fighting fully dressed soldiers makes you roll your eyes, this was never the franchise for you. Compared to the roller-skating cyborg ninja fighting bipedal machines who grunt like cows, Quiet is downright boring.


I seem to be one of the few people that thought Ground Zeroes (mostly) delivered what it promised, unfinished cash-grab or not, so put me down as someone thrilled by this Phantom Pain trailer. Now, if I can just borrow a time machine to get back to 1984...