Metal Gear Solid 5's Torture Scene is Non-Playable

roseofbattle

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Apr 18, 2011
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Metal Gear Solid 5's Torture Scene is Non-Playable


Kojima says the scene needed to be done, but making it playable was too far.

Torture scenes in entertainment are supposed to make the viewer uncomfortable, but participating in them in the context of a videogame can be further disturbing. When the first glimpse of a torture scene in Metal Gear Solid 5 was unveiled through a trailer, whether the scene would be playable or kept to a cutscene was not clarified. Speaking to Eurogamer at the Tokyo Game Show, director Hideo Kojima said the torture scene is not playable.

When asked whether scenes of torture are necessary in videogames, Kojima said it needed to be done. "As the expressiveness of videogames goes up, if you want to go beyond that it's not something you can avoid. Of course not all videogames have to do this, and in my case it's not something I want to go through." Metal Gear Solid 5 centers around the topic of revenge, something Kojima found important to explore through torture and the emotions surrounding it.

Kojima pointed at the times the player has been the victim of torture in the series and joked, "So far the player's been tortured by Ocelot so much that I'm thinking I might be the one that introduced torture to games. So sorry about that!"

Kojima said making the torture scene playable would have been too far. Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto V caused a controversy [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar] for a playable torture scene, forcing the player to aggressively and physically question a character. The organization Freedom from Torture criticized the game for glamorizing torture.

Source: Eurogamer [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-20-metal-gear-solid-5s-torture-scene-will-be-non-playable]

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GAunderrated

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So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...
 

AzrealMaximillion

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GAunderrated said:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...
Wow, calm down.... All the "playability" of the torture scenes in the MGS titles have been nothing but holding a button to withstand pain.

The scene will still be there so not having to hold a button for 30 seconds isn't about MGSV "not having balls". I think you're taking this too seriously.
 

WashAran

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GAunderrated said:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...
Dont worry somewhere someone will somehow be offended by something!
 

Proverbial Jon

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Nov 10, 2009
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I haven't reached this already controversial torture scene in GTA V yet but from what I've seen of a certain character, whom I suspect to be the culprit, I can definitely say that none of his violence is glamorised. I'm quite effectively repulsed. I don't expect to take torture lightly in this game or any other.

You could attack the PS1's own Metal Gear Solid for trivialising torture. After all you only have to mash a button for a short time to withstand the pain. Yeah, I'm sure it's all that simple. It cuts both ways.
 

fix-the-spade

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Proverbial Jon said:
You could attack the PS1's own Metal Gear Solid for trivialising torture. After all you only have to mash a button for a short time to withstand the pain. Yeah, I'm sure it's all that simple. It cuts both ways.
Dude, did you play MGS? It wasn't trivialising torture, it was torture, that scene gave me wanker's wrist and I didn't even know what wanking meant when the damn game came out!

On a less disgusting thought, I can't think of many games beyond MGS where you play as both the torturer and the victim. #the many and varied horrors you can visit on the guards coming back to roost when you're strapped up to the electric whatever it was (table?) with the fabulous revolver man tweaking knobs.

It's a pretty unusual approach to take the player out of a position of power.
 

tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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roseofbattle said:
Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto V caused a controversy [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar] for a playable torture scene, forcing the player to aggressively and physically question a character. The organization Freedom from Torture criticized the game for glamorizing torture.
Anyone who has played through that bit knows that there was absolutely ZERO glamorizing going on there. The whole point of that scene, the other mission bits paired with it, and the conversation afterwards was to do the opposite, showing that actual torture was completely ineffectual for obtaining information, and anyone who has done it and says that it is necessary is full of shit and just gets off on it.

GOD I wish these places making news about it would actually take the material in context. This is exactly as if they'd said Spec Ops: The Line was a video game that glamorized burning refugees to death with white phosphorous.
 

GAunderrated

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AzrealMaximillion said:
GAunderrated said:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...
Wow, calm down.... All the "playability" of the torture scenes in the MGS titles have been nothing but holding a button to withstand pain.

The scene will still be there so not having to hold a button for 30 seconds isn't about MGSV "not having balls". I think you're taking this too seriously.
Not sure why you thought I would be angry and need to calm down. I wasn't yelling or using caps. lol.

Yes in the past the torture scenes have been about mashing the X button but that does not mean that after a decade they would follow the same formula.

But I stand by my statement. They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

That way they don't have to rip out gameplay to appease a loud minority. But the way they are going about it right now is just some cheap PR move that anyone with a working brain can see right through.
 

Angelous Wang

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Oct 18, 2011
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MGS torture was fine because it had a purpose, it changed the games ending. You were ether good enough (or masshy enough anyway) to save Merrill or you gave her up (or you died, in which case she still died).

Playable torture is fine IMO as long as it has a point.

If it's just something that happens in the game (a normal unchangeable part of the story) then you might as well make it a cutscene.
 

TiberiusEsuriens

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GAunderrated said:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...
roseofbattle said:
"Of course not all videogames have to do this, and in my case it's not something I want to go through." Metal Gear Solid 5 centers around the topic of revenge, something Kojima found important to explore through torture and the emotions surrounding it.
I think you're misinterpreting that. In games like GTAV where you torture, it's really up to you how you feel participating in it. Everyone has a different reaction. He's not trying to appeal to mass market, he just wants to lead us down a specific set of feelings. He feels this requires taking control away from the player.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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GAunderrated said:
But I stand by my statement. They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.
Unless I see a direct quote from Kojima stating that, I'm actually more under the impression that it was simply a relevant anecdote that the author of this article added to provide a little more context on the subject of "torture in video games".

I'd be perfectly happy to rescind that stance if you can provide me with evidence otherwise, though.

OT: I dunno, I wouldn't say those button-mashing sequences were anything resembling "enjoyable", but they did add a certain something to the Metal Gear Solid games. I'm still a little more interested in how all of the elements of MGSV are really going to effectively gel together, though, if I'm honest. Seems like Kojima is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. Not that he's never done that before, and I imagine I'd enjoy the game anyway, but still.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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GAunderrated said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
GAunderrated said:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...
Wow, calm down.... All the "playability" of the torture scenes in the MGS titles have been nothing but holding a button to withstand pain.

The scene will still be there so not having to hold a button for 30 seconds isn't about MGSV "not having balls". I think you're taking this too seriously.
Not sure why you thought I would be angry and need to calm down. I wasn't yelling or using caps. lol.

Yes in the past the torture scenes have been about mashing the X button but that does not mean that after a decade they would follow the same formula.

But I stand by my statement. They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

That way they don't have to rip out gameplay to appease a loud minority. But the way they are going about it right now is just some cheap PR move that anyone with a working brain can see right through.

If you can provide evidence that Kojima Productions took out a part of the game where you mash the X button for 30 seconds to "appease the masses", please let me know. I highly doubt that removing the mash X button and keeping the full torture scene in the game really doesn't seem like appeasing the mass market to me.

That's like saying that removing the "renegade action" and "paragon action" button prompts from Mass Effect 2 and 3 would ruin the integrity of the morality system as a whole.
 

Norithics

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Wait... what?


Have I been transported, somehow, to an alternate dimension where this game never happened? You have to torture people just to get your health back. I find torture to be unpalatable normally, but this game actually made it a boring chore. Suffocating people felt like working for the weekend.

You don't have to go easy on us!
 

The_Echo

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Mar 18, 2009
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GAunderrated said:
They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.
You uh... you don't think that scene might have already been finished by this point? In fact, probably well before GTAV released? (I didn't even know it had a torture scene.)

I mean... if it's only a cutscene, chances are it's been done for a while now.

Kojima probably wants to convey this torture differently than he has in past games. Previously, the player character would writhe around and grunt as you mashed the Action Button?, which in my opinion mitigates the impact that actual torture carries.
 

elvor0

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mysecondlife said:
Good because fuck you Peace Walker.
Fun fact: The Japanese version of Peace Walker has tickle sticks instead of electrocution.
 

gigastar

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Id just like to point out that MGS3 had a non-playable torture scene as well.

Actually two, if you count what Ocelot does with three revolvers and one bullet as torture.
 

piinyouri

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Speaking of uncomfortable torture scenes, the scene in whichever game where Vulgan is beating the snot out of Snake?
That almost made me sick. Barely any blood, no guts, but it was so gut wrenchingly brutal I almost literally felt ill.