Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes

[OldDirtyCrusty]

It sure is a MGS Kojima game and that means i`ll stay the hell away from it.
The graphics are really good looking and it`s a long inro. That`s all i can say at this time.
The MGS spin off with Raiden is the more interesting game to me.

A hacked-together respin of a game whose first version seemed far better, is better than an actual plot gap being filled? Wow.

I am disappointed as hell in Rising.

Ah, i´m sure Platinum Games will manage to make it fun, no need for disapointment. The story of the MGS games are kind of crappy to me anyway, same goes for the gameplay which isn`t what i would call fun. Believe me i tried to like this franchise for three entire games but they are just not for me. I can`t even stand the first ps1 title anymore even if i considered it great at the time it was released, guess i grew out of it. Good if MGS fans can enjoy the new game but like i already said, i`ll stay away from it.

 

[baddude1337]

Could be great, graphics look stunning for current gen (though probably running on a PC) and the story seems interesting. But it would be nice if, for once, Kojima actually meant that this is the last MGS game. Things won't be able to go much further for Big Boss and After MGS4 I doubt there will be another Solider Snake game. The most I can see (and hope) is remakes of the original 2 Metal Gear games.

 

[BBboy20]

Could be great, graphics look stunning for current gen (though probably running on a PC) and the story seems interesting. But it would be nice if, for once, Kojima actually meant that this is the last MGS game. Things won't be able to go much further for Big Boss and After MGS4 I doubt there will be another Solider Snake game. The most I can see (and hope) is remakes of the original 2 Metal Gear games.

It's really simple: start over.

Not rebooting the story, just show us what this new world looks like after the GOTP incident. Literally start from zero again with new characters, gameplay, and scenarios. Seems simple enough.

Seriously, if fans are able to put up with Metal Gear, they should be understandable that we don't need any more Snake.

 

[BBboy20]

I'm still wondering how he'll earn Zero's trust because FOXHOUND is a US government agency and Big Boss led it but in this game, it's quite apparent Zero is going after him.

That's not much of a problem because...

Spoiler: Major plot

Big Boss forms FOXHOUND with Campbell during the San Hieronymo Takeover. When it's over Zero and Big Boss have their little tiff after Les Enfants Terribles is started and they part ways. As far as we know The Patriots didn't have total influence over the US until the 90's, with almost total control by the time Solidus was president, which was in the early 2000's. It looks like Big Boss was still admired by the US and led FOXHOUND. until Operation Intrude N313.

Spoiler

Influence? You're treating a small unit like it was a city or a land hard to touch. Besides, all the covert agencies would be the first things the Patriots influenced over. I'm pretty sure if Zero was able to confirm Boss was being a double-crosser, he would have been assassinated right away regardless of who ever would admire him.

What I'm definitely wondering is if this game will explain exactly why Big Boss was doubling as both the commander of FOXHOUND and the leader of Outer Heaven. In Metal Gear he was just a big bad, but with his tragic new backstory I have a feeling that they might spin it in his favour.

He's breaking down. He still consumes war since it's the only life he knows. He didn't ending up letting the world be.

 

[baddude1337]

Could be great, graphics look stunning for current gen (though probably running on a PC) and the story seems interesting. But it would be nice if, for once, Kojima actually meant that this is the last MGS game. Things won't be able to go much further for Big Boss and After MGS4 I doubt there will be another Solider Snake game. The most I can see (and hope) is remakes of the original 2 Metal Gear games.

It's really simple: start over.

Not rebooting the story, just show us what this new world looks like after the GOTP incident. Literally start from zero again with new characters, gameplay, and scenarios. Seems simple enough.

Seriously, if fans are able to put up with Metal Gear, they should be understandable that we don't need any more Snake.

I'm fine with Metal Gear games, but not Solid games (as in ones with Snake) as those character arcs have ended. They have already started this with Metal Gear Rising, which looks pretty fun, and then there is the other unannounced FOX engine game which may be another Metal Gear.

 

[Jack and Calumon]

-snip-

You thought the game was trash and yet you decided to get the Foxhound medal anyway? My mind can't really comprehend that.

Anyway, I love MGS4 so we're going to disagree endlessly. With that in mind, let me tell you why I disagree so you can do a rebuttal at a later point.

The Bosses were far from drab and uninspired and were actually inspired from all the bosses in MGS1 and 3, where arguably the most memorable bosses have occurred. Each one took with them an emotion and carried it into battle (Something the Cobra Unit did) except each one was representative of the PTSD that each woman suffered. It shown many different ways it manifests and breaks people's minds.

Act 3 admittedly had the stalking the dude segment, which was dull, undeniably dull, and through playing the game again recently (Woohoo trophies) I can tell that Kojima knew that it was slower paced and dragging on a bit and so we get a heart pumping motorcycle chase sequence through the streets followed by a boss fight with so much explosions and debris everywhere it feels like the apocalypse has just entered the tower. The high tension for this finale for the act really overshadowed the slowness of Act 3 in my eyes. Not to mention Liquid Ocelot's plan in action in the final cutscene.

Yes, Act 4 was Snake versus the robots. So what? The Gekko units are terrifying and strong when you don't know how to take them out and the Scarab units, while not terribly strong are unsettling still. There is no negative point in your statement there. It is just a statement. I feel I can do that too about any game. "Skyrim was just a dude dicking around, being interrupted by dragons. Max Payne was just a dude shooting in slow motion. Angry Birds is just Angry Birds flying at Pigs." These are statements and not negative points.

Act 5 fucks up the plot? I really do not see how. Elaborate. Is it to do with your "Nanomachines" complaint? Okay, next paragraph. It's sort of a spoiler so tags are going up.

Spoiler: MGS Spoilers Ho!

Yes, the Nanomachines play an incredibly big part in MGS4, and I will say that they probably were used too much, but they have been building up the whole "Nanomachines" thing for a long time. They were in MGS1, helping Snake out in Shadow Moses while also killing everyone, they were in MGS2, helping Raiden out while also making him trip balls, and now, as per you would expect with the game that has been building up the significance of these things, they are now the main point of the plot. Beforehand, Nanomachines were just there, didn't do much, not much said about them but now they are a main plot point, delivering the control that the Patriots were aiming for since MGS2. Now all military folk are wired, regulated and controlled and you see real progress as now soldiers and their skills are just given rather than earned, not even through VR training which was what WAS being used until now.

They were a key point yes, and why should that be a bad thing? Yes, they are a little mystical this time around, with the ability of super regeneration and halting cancer, but this in no way makes the story bad in my eyes. The Nanomachines aren't the force, they never reached that strong, so I'm certainly okay with this.

Finally Drebin's Shop making the game too easy? Are you mad sir? I barely used Drebin's shop because there was never any need to use it. Bullets left my guns fine, so I never needed to buy another of the ridiculous amount of guns on display. I never even ran out of ammo, so Drebin wasn't actually all that helpful really, except for buying the easter egg weapons like the Tanegashima and emotive bullets.

(I also don't think the last bit was that hard, but that might the due to the relative skill of the individual in fighting/melee combat based games, so no faults there)

Now, I wait your response with bated breath.

Calumon: I'mma grab popcorn!

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Spoiler

Influence? You're treating a small unit like it was a city or a land hard to touch. Besides, all the covert agencies would be the first things the Patriots influenced over. I'm pretty sure if Zero was able to confirm Boss was being a double-crosser, he would have been assassinated right away regardless of who ever would admire him.

Spoiler

Not exactly true. Look at the Peace Walker Incident, as far as Zero was concerned Pacifica could have assassinated Big Boss any time he gave the order. And you're also forgetting Solid and Liquid, which Zero had ultimate influence over, were both members of FOXHOUND. Oh and there's Ocelot, who was a doub- trip- quadruple agent? He was secretly playing The Patriots during Shadow Moses. FOXHOUND was never a concern for the Patriots, who knows how many other agents they had in the organisation?

When it comes down to it, the Patriots at the time were still small time during FOXHOUND's official founding. Well, not exactly small time but EVA and Ocelot didn't abandon the organisation until after Zanzibar Land. They didn't really have anything to worry about, so why would they bother? FOXHOUND was public, but when it came down to it they squashed both of Big Boss' secret endeavors using Solid Snake.

As for Big Boss going coocoo, it's not really given reason in Metal Gear. We just know he kidnapped Madnar and forced him to make a new, better Metal Gear with nuclear launch capabilities. I know it's been a few years since Peace Walker, but Big Boss makes a complete u-turn from 'I want to create a world for soldiers' to all our nuclear terrorism.

EDIT

Side-note. On the burnt face man, has anyone else seen this image?

Spoiler: Striking Resemblance?

 

[GiantRaven]

I really hope this is better than the clusterfuck of storytelling that went on in MGS4. I don't think I could tell you what actually happened in that game, or how it made sense relative to the rest of the series.

Spoiler: Striking Resemblance?

Who is that guy?

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I really hope this is better than the clusterfuck of storytelling that went on in MGS4. I don't think I could tell you what actually happened in that game, or how it made sense relative to the rest of the series.

Spoiler: Striking Resemblance?

Who is that guy?

Its Galvez from Peace Walker.

Spoiler

Except that he's actually a KGB agent called Zadornov. He is supposedly killed near the end of Peace Walker. I know it's only the suit they share, but thats a pretty neat coincidence.

 

[Jack and Calumon]

OBJECTION!

My gripes?

#1 They had no soul. Every boss in MGS usually had a ton of exposition relating to their character. Not so in MGS4, they all followed the same forumula. You know nothing, you kill them, Drebin explains.

You never know much about them, yes and admittedly you probably learn stuff after the boss fight which should have been beforehand, but you do always know their motivations for trying to kill Snake. They are mentally scarred, with their pysche resembling a smashed mirror and they have been lead to believe that through Snake's death, through this final endeavour, they would be cured. Yes, this could have been handled better, but it does make it weirdly more horrifying when replaying MGS4 and you can hear Raging Raven being abused and potentially raped as a child in the background. You don't register it at first, it's just noises until Drebin let's you know what you're hearing and then "Oh my God, I'm really uncomfortable right now."

This ties in with another major pain I have with the game. All the shit that should have been in the (optional) codec is stuck in cutscenes or mandatory codec, not cool.

I'd be insane if I didn't say this. I was disappointed by the lack of optional codec convos too, and I agree with you there, though the execution of this would be tricky. When would you hear the conversation about Raven? During the bike chase?

#2 Sure the emotions were cool but none of them seem that different, you just sort of shot a machine gun at them until they died. You got nothing like Sniper Wolf, The End or even The Pain. Sure, some of them had similar setups but there was no fear or tension. Sniper Wolf fight #2 has her taunting you over codec before the fight and has a hell of an ending. No, the B&B are all the same, just robots with hot babes underneath for me to photo after I tranq them.

Story wise Sniper Wolf's second fight was good, but gameplay wise it sucked. It was bigged up as the sniper battle to die for, the best one ever, a legendary one for the ages by Wolf herself. Instead, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, stands behind the rocks at some point and blasts her with the Nikita.

Also, the boss fights were way different from one another, apart from when they're out of their suits. Octopus utilises Octo-camo, hiding from you at every given oppurtunity, Raven flies around and destroys everything and has her minions helping out, Wolf has an epic sniper/tracking battle across a blizzard in a snowfield while a pack of soldiers also try to murder you horribly, Vamp was a dude you shot until he died, yes, but the dude was fast and soaked up a lot of bullets, so the problem with him (Unless you have the Sun gun, whatever it was called) is staying alive by dodging his attacks, Metal Gear Ray was Metal Gear Ray being fought inside of Metal Gear Rex, Screaming Mantis had a bunch of Telekinesis based attacks as well as ordering Meryl and the Frog Soldiers you may or may not have killed to kill you AND a callback to "The world's greatest mind-reader and psychokinecist." from the word go. Finally we have Liquid, which is as different as it gets to the other bosses. So while a toutine is there for four of the bosses, that in no way means that every single boss is the same thing again and again.

The bike chase wasn't that interesting to me. Sure it was cool but it wasn't a big enough payoff for such a boring chapter. Besides, we've had a bike chase in 1 and 3 already, it wasn't new. Actually, we already had a chase in chapter 2!

1 had a car chase. You were on a car. A big bloody jeep. 3 did have a bike chase, and there's a reason 4 did too! Look who you're with! LOOK AT HER! Do you see why meeting this person might make Kojima think "Hey in this conclusion of Solid Snake's story, why don't I put a bike chase in when Snake meets this character?" You know, maybe it's meant to be a nod to a previous game in the series or something like that.

I didn't find them scary but my gripe was that returning to Shadow Moses was meant to be "epic" and "awesome" but it was just a trudge through a few buildings with some robots to kill. Sure the robots were new but they were hardly fun to fight, they were just cannon fodder.

It was as linear as you could get, there was nothing interesting to do. I did like the new area they added to Shadow Moses though despite it being about 50 metres in length.

Yeah, it was more linear than the other chapters but it was certainly not as linear as you can get (My introduce you to Final Fantasy XIII, or as her friends call her, "Hallway".) especially since there are wide amount of ways you can go about your business, like the number of ways into the Tank Hangar, the Blast Furnace (Which has got a lot of ways to go now you hang and drop and do whatever you want without turning into grilled snake from the molten iron everywhere.)

I'm not so sure it's meant to be epic and awesome, but more like something you play through while smiling and nodding, occasionally chuckling as you say "Aw man, I remember that" like when you see the Hind D in the snowfield.

I ran out of M4 ammo in no time in my "No Drebin" run and had to resort to militia weapons. It makes the game into a true MGS game as you cannot buy your way out of a fight.

I mean, it makes no sense and takes away all tension. The SM Gekko fight? Just spam the Rail Gun and keep buying ammo.

This ties into another glaring issue I have with the game, the M4. It's the best machine gun in the game and they give it to you for free. The thing gets the best sights, a grenade launcher, plenty of ammo, a suppressor. It should have been a hidden gun or something, it's far too good.

Eh, Kojima wanted to show off the customisation for the guns to the player early, so I can see why he'd show off the gun that is super customisable first. Wouldn't fault your opinion though. Except the "Plenty of ammo" part. All the guns have a similar cap for their ammo. 893 (As in Drebin 893). I think the grenades and heavier weapons may have a lower one, but for most guns, 893 is the magic number.

Were you not giving a shit about no kills and stealth and on The Boss Extreme for that playthrough? Only time I've ever been out of ammo is when I'm shoot Scarabs at the end in order to buy myself something nice. I ask the same question about the Suicide Gekko fight because running out of ammo on that fight? So long as you charge your shots, you're fine. If you don't then... well that just baffles me.

(I also don't think the last bit was that hard, but that might the due to the relative skill of the individual in fighting/melee combat based games, so no faults there)

Did you do the fight on the hardest mode? Liquid does INSANE damage to you, it's not even funny.[/quote]

Dodging. Dodging is your friend. Dodging, strong punches, dash punches and CQC are your friend.

Also, where the hell did Raiden's second arm go? It disappeared and OH did NOT take it off, it just disappeared and was never explained.

...I think we can safely assume it was caused by an entire super goliath tanker/submarine/Arsenal Gear crushing him. I'd be suspicious if he didn't have anything wrong with him or missing. I was raising an eyebrow he could even make it out of that one alive.

All right, let the cycle continue!

Calumon: I still have my popcorn.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Recently played the HD re release of Metal Gear 3 & 4 and Peace Walker. An i have come to the thoughts that they suck. Now not saying they are fun to play, just that the stories and characters are bullshit and they all have an ending that is 180 degrees to what you thought. Its like you play the games for 10 hours that are total lies cos the 1 hour cut scene at the end proves nothing you have learnt/played is what it is.

I love the weird characters, eventhough in snake eater they were all pointless. Why cant we have snake have a mission to solve a mission that makes sense and you win and complete the game and all is good? We wont cos MGS games are more about the crazy and not about the gameplay.

The creator always have awesome graphics and gameplay and adding new things. I remember playing the MG3 demo on PS2 and you could shoot fruit and bags of whatever and have the fruit split and contents of the bags spill out. That was amazing. But now, i just want a good story with out all the bullshit and a complete 180 change at the end.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

This just in, apparently Big Boss isn't old yet. The greyish hair seems to have been caused by the lighting, so says Kojima. I'm on my phone so I can't post a link, but it's two minutes to google and confirm it.

So this game takes place presumably weeks after Peace Walker.

 

[Mirroga]

Recently played the HD re release of Metal Gear 3 & 4 and Peace Walker. An i have come to the thoughts that they suck. Now not saying they are fun to play, just that the stories and characters are bullshit and they all have an ending that is 180 degrees to what you thought. Its like you play the games for 10 hours that are total lies cos the 1 hour cut scene at the end proves nothing you have learnt/played is what it is.

I love the weird characters, eventhough in snake eater they were all pointless. Why cant we have snake have a mission to solve a mission that makes sense and you win and complete the game and all is good? We wont cos MGS games are more about the crazy and not about the gameplay.

The creator always have awesome graphics and gameplay and adding new things. I remember playing the MG3 demo on PS2 and you could shoot fruit and bags of whatever and have the fruit split and contents of the bags spill out. That was amazing. But now, i just want a good story with out all the bullshit and a complete 180 change at the end.

I guess you could say their consistency is something to be admired or people like. The MG stories has always been so complicated even from the MG1 and MG2 era of the NES. But I gotta say, I like MGS 3 the most simply because I love the characters, the survival gameplay within stealth and the fact that it's the very prequel of everything means as little confusion as possible....possibly.