Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes and Rape

[Something Amyss]

-snip-

You might not want to do this on here. It's bad enough that you're lying and attacking people, but I'm pretty sure copypastaing is also a TOU violation. I don't even know why I'm bothering to offer advice here, since I'm one of the people you're lying about....

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I don't get the placement argument, mainly because if it had been a central part of the Ground Zeroe's main plot it would had to have been just a random flashback that the character you're not even playing as has. With it being an optional tape (Not an Easter egg. What is this place, Fox News?) it lets the player discover it on their own, and seeing as the scene takes place at least a few days before Big Boss arrives on the base I don't think there would be any other way. Not everything has to be The Last of Us or Spec Ops: The Line where things only happen in the present, games aren't linear films.

And another thing, when you do rescue Paz and Chico they are both tired, tortured with their minds fucked up from what they've seen, they are in no right mind to start talking about the horrors of rape like it was a counselling meeting. I can't for the life of me think of how to add a 10 minute scene where someone starts to get raped at the end into an hour and a half demo with only three cutscenes and a very "this is what happened" storytelling style.

 

[verdant monkai]

Rape is in film and tv.

There for it should be allowed in video games .

end of story.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Rape is in film and tv.

There for it should be allowed in video games .

end of story.

Yeah, because OF COURSE THAT'S WHAT I SAID.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I don't get the placement argument, mainly because if it had been a central part of the Ground Zeroe's main plot it would had to have been just a random flashback that the character you're not even playing as has. With it being an optional tape (Not an Easter egg. What is this place, Fox News?) it lets the player discover it on their own, and seeing as the scene takes place at least a few days before Big Boss arrives on the base I don't think there would be any other way. Not everything has to be The Last of Us or Spec Ops: The Line where things only happen in the present, games aren't linear films.

And another thing, when you do rescue Paz and Chico they are both tired, tortured with their minds fucked up from what they've seen, they are in no right mind to start talking about the horrors of rape like it was a counselling meeting. I can't for the life of me think of how to add a 10 minute scene where someone starts to get raped at the end into an hour and a half demo with only three cutscenes and a very "this is what happened" storytelling style.

Dude, I already admitted I was wrong, I'm getting tired of saying it...

 

[Hosker]

It's an adult game; they can put whatever they want in it. Why is it only video games that people get so high-rate about? Nobody would care if it was in a book, and probably not for films.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

It's an adult game; they can put whatever they want in it. Why is it only video games that people get so high-rate about? Nobody would care if it was in a book, and probably not for films.

...

Don't give me that "Oh, why do video games get picked on all the time?!?!". You know what, yes sir, you are right, Video games are not fairly judged like other mediums and should be. HOWEVER, just because something is in it's infancy doesn't make it prone to criticism. AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, I'M NOT OFFENDED BY THE RAPE SCENE. I said it was badly placed and shittly designed, which can happen any medium depending on the specific situation.

 

[Erttheking]

. And I want to make a game which really challenges the player and the themes of war." This is precisely the kind of thing that people constantly complain about.

Spec Ops; So AMAZING because it deals with war REALISTICALLY! It makes you realise how bad war is.
The Last of Us; SO AMAZING because it deals with HORRIBLE PEOPLE and how good people can be SHITTY and KILL EACH OTHER and RAPE THREATS and SO DRAMATIC!
Bioshock Infinite: SO AMAZING because it talks about REALLY DEEP THEMES! OH MY GOD! And it's SO DARK while LOOKING BRIGHT!
Tomb Raider: ARGH, WHY CAN'T VIDEO GAMES DEAL WITH RAPE!? (Alternatively) ARGH, VIDEO GAMES AREN'T ALLOWED TO DEAL WITH RAPE! ONLY FILMS AND BOOKS CAN!

Ground Zeroes: UGH! THIS GAME MAKES REFERENCES TO RAPE, TORTURE, MULTILATION AND MURDER! THAT NEVER HAPPENS IN WAR!

Here it is. A game which deals with all those things people complain about Call of Duty for doing. The sort of game which takes what the Red Cross was complaining about when they said video games don't deal with war crimes.

This game is doing precisely that. You want video games to be taken seriously? Here one is. Phantom Pain is going to be similar to Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now. It's not going to be fun. Or comfortable. It's not meant to be.

Ok, I'm just gonna address this as someone who is a major fan of Spec Ops the line and not really on board with all of this. Spec Ops the Line dealt with the usage of White Phosphorous. A real, very controversial weapon that has seen action in the war in Iraq. It is a horrific thing. A bomb vagina? That's...that's just fucking stupid. When you want to have your game taken seriously, you don't uses something that causes a person to think of South Park. And really, it feels like one of the main reasons that people are getting on Metal Gear for this is that rape is a very VERY serious thing that can't be approached lightly. Kojima is...not really the first person I would trust with something so sensitive, and a lot of people probably feel the same way. And can you blame them?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Narm/MetalGear

It doesn't help that Metal Gear has a history of treated female characters less than ideally, such as them showing off skin in situations where it really didn't make sense. Granted Meryl was a pretty good character, but with the presence of Quiet I don't think Kojima has the most healthy attitude towards women. And a woman gets raped...and then dies...so what was the point of her getting raped exactly? Something that REALLY irritates me about rape in fiction is when it's used as a throwaway line like that. Really it feels cheap and manipulative and is only there to get us to see mr skullface as a bad guy. Like we really needed that. Rape is the most serious thing that can happen to a human being and it happened to this woman just so she could get killed off. No her coping with the trauma of it, no her recovering for it, no seeing exactly what damage it did to her. That is fucking lazy.

 

[verdant monkai]

Rape is in film and tv.

There for it should be allowed in video games .

end of story.

Yeah, because OF COURSE THAT'S WHAT I SAID.

THANK YOU FOR NOTICING ME SENPAI!

I'm gonna be honest mate this wasn't directed at you, I didn't even finish reading your post. I shouldn't really have posted but its just my opinion concerning anything to do with rape and games.

 

[Guy from the 80's]

This is funny. People playing ultra violent games and then suddenly gets upset over the introduction of (non graphic) rape?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

snip

You know decoy bombs are actual things right, and bombs in people's bodies to kill other people did actually happen? The reason it was in her nether-regions was because it's such an absurd place that after they took the first bomb out they wouldn't have looked for another one. Seriously, go search it up, decoy bombs being placed anywhere they might not be found is a real thing, and it's not Kojima's fault you don't know your history.

You clearly haven't played the game, because if you had you would have seen that both rape victims had their minds completely fucked up by the torture they went through. Do you expect Kojima to put a rape counselling scene in the midst of a high-stakes rescue only done so the villains could destroy Big Boss' home?

 

[Hosker]

It's an adult game; they can put whatever they want in it. Why is it only video games that people get so high-rate about? Nobody would care if it was in a book, and probably not for films.

...

Don't give me that "Oh, why do video games get picked on all the time?!?!". You know what, yes sir, you are right, Video games are not fairly judged like other mediums and should be. HOWEVER, just because something is in it's infancy doesn't make it prone to criticism. AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, I'M NOT OFFENDED BY THE RAPE SCENE. I said it was badly placed and shittly designed, which can happen any medium depending on the specific situation.

Okay, let's say it was indeed badly placed and designed. So what? It wouldn't be the first time something bad made its way into a videogame. Why is this worth making a thread about in particular?

 

[EternallyBored]

It's an adult game; they can put whatever they want in it. Why is it only video games that people get so high-rate about? Nobody would care if it was in a book, and probably not for films.

...

Don't give me that "Oh, why do video games get picked on all the time?!?!". You know what, yes sir, you are right, Video games are not fairly judged like other mediums and should be. HOWEVER, just because something is in it's infancy doesn't make it prone to criticism. AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, I'M NOT OFFENDED BY THE RAPE SCENE. I said it was badly placed and shittly designed, which can happen any medium depending on the specific situation.

Okay, let's say it was indeed badly placed and designed. So what? It wouldn't be the first time something bad made its way into a videogame. Why is this worth making a thread about in particular?

For the same reason anyone makes threads about mechanics and elements they dislike. The same reason we see people complaining about Vigors in Bioshock: infinite, and complaining about escort mechanics in Resident Evil, or about tailing missions in Assassin's Creed, or to complain about Free to play games and their mechanics.

This is a game forum, so talking about elements and mechanics we don't like in games, and why we don't like them, is pretty much exactly what this forum is for. People create threads like this to see who agrees with them, and to see the reasons why someone may disagree with them.

It's the same as when I create a thread about hating escort missions in games. I want people to commiserate and agree with my opinion, whilst also seeing the reasons that other may disagree with me and why they think escort missions are perfectly fine, or even great. Ideally, by the end of the thread, I'll have had an interesting conversation with those who agree with me, and a civil (and entertaining), even if perhaps futile, debate with those who disagree with my opinion or assertations.

 

[Hosker]

It's an adult game; they can put whatever they want in it. Why is it only video games that people get so high-rate about? Nobody would care if it was in a book, and probably not for films.

...

Don't give me that "Oh, why do video games get picked on all the time?!?!". You know what, yes sir, you are right, Video games are not fairly judged like other mediums and should be. HOWEVER, just because something is in it's infancy doesn't make it prone to criticism. AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, I'M NOT OFFENDED BY THE RAPE SCENE. I said it was badly placed and shittly designed, which can happen any medium depending on the specific situation.

Okay, let's say it was indeed badly placed and designed. So what? It wouldn't be the first time something bad made its way into a videogame. Why is this worth making a thread about in particular?

For the same reason anyone makes threads about mechanics and elements they dislike. The same reason we see people complaining about Vigors in Bioshock: infinite, and complaining about escort mechanics in Resident Evil, or about tailing missions in Assassin's Creed, or to complain about Free to play games and their mechanics.

This is a game forum, so talking about elements and mechanics we don't like in games, and why we don't like them, is pretty much exactly what this forum is for. People create threads like this to see who agrees with them, and to see the reasons why someone may disagree with them.

It's the same as when I create a thread about hating escort missions in games. I want people to commiserate and agree with my opinion, whilst also seeing the reasons that other may disagree with me and why they think escort missions are perfectly fine, or even great. Ideally, by the end of the thread, I'll have had an interesting conversation with those who agree with me, and a civil (and entertaining), even if perhaps futile, debate with those who disagree with my opinion or assertations.

You're right, but in this case what is being discussed, at length, is a single 5-10 minute audio log. If it was something that had bearing on the game (like its short length) I could understand, but I cannot understand people getting so up-in-arms over something so small. What I want to know is why rape, which is rarely controversial in literature and film, is so controversial in games. This is not the first time it's garnered controversy.

 

[Erttheking]

snip

You know decoy bombs are actual things right, and bombs in people's bodies to kill other people did actually happen? The reason it was in her nether-regions was because it's such an absurd place that after they took the first bomb out they wouldn't have looked for another one. Seriously, go search it up, decoy bombs being placed anywhere they might not be found is a real thing, and it's not Kojima's fault you don't know your history.

You clearly haven't played the game, because if you had you would have seen that both rape victims had their minds completely fucked up by the torture they went through. Do you expect Kojima to put a rape counselling scene in the midst of a high-stakes rescue only done so the villains could destroy Big Boss' home?

I never claimed to.

And decoy bombs I have no doubt are a true thing but, I never claimed that they weren't a real thing. But...her vagina? Can't she just...squeeze it out? (FYI, I did google decoy bomb. Not only did I not get a lot of results, all results for "bomb in vagina" let me right back to Metal Gear"

No, I expected her to have a character arc. Something that she can't really have when she's dead, and something I didn't exactly need to play the game to know. This is supposed to be the first hour to a long game right? Pardon me if the whole thing sounds like cheap manipulations to raise the stakes, she gets raped and then doesn't live past the first hour of the game. Keith from Far Cry 3 had more time dedicated to him reacting from his rape, and barely had any presence in that game. But like I said, I haven't played the game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I never claimed to.

And decoy bombs I have no doubt are a true thing but, I never claimed that they weren't a real thing. But...her vagina? Can't she just...squeeze it out? (FYI, I did google decoy bomb. Not only did I not get a lot of results, all results for "bomb in vagina" let me right back to Metal Gear"

No, I expected her to have a character arc. Something that she can't really have when she's dead, and something I didn't exactly need to play the game to know. This is supposed to be the first hour to a long game right? Pardon me if the whole thing sounds like cheap manipulations to raise the stakes, she gets raped and then doesn't live past the first hour of the game. Keith from Far Cry 3 had more time dedicated to him reacting from his rape, and barely had any presence in that game. But like I said, I haven't played the game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The bomb isn't actually explicitly said to be in her vagina. It could have been in her womb, all we know is that it's in her nether regions and it's a place that "nobody would look". In the game they really don't have any time to check for another one seeing as pretty much immediately after they find the first their Base is being destroyed by Skullface and his crew. It may be gross putting a bomb in someone's lady parts, but it makes sense.

And yeah, you are wrong. The tapes don't end with the rape scene, there's 6 more after that all flesh out Paz's and Chico's reaction to the rape and how they eventually just break and give Skullface the information about Big Boss's whereabouts. That and Ground Zeroes also includes all of Paz's unlockable audio logs from Peace Walker that flesh out Paz's character. The rape tape isn't a one-off occurence, and by the time Big Boss gets to her in the main mission of Ground Zeroes she has already had her psyche broken.

It's why I'm seeing a lot of the reactions as kneejerk from the Nerd3 video and the tape itself. Just saying that something bad happens in a game is what places like Fox News does. It'd be like boiling Clockwork Orange down to the rape scene and ignoring any of the things that come before or afterwards.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

It doesn't help that Metal Gear has a history of treated female characters less than ideally, such as them showing off skin in situations where it really didn't make sense. Granted Meryl was a pretty good character, but with the presence of Quiet I don't think Kojima has the most healthy attitude towards women.

Awfully convenient for you to leave out how males are sexualized to the same extent as women in the MGS series. And the fact of how scarce the information on Quiet is. As for the rest of your post on how lazily Skullface was handled, I agree.

 

[Erttheking]

It doesn't help that Metal Gear has a history of treated female characters less than ideally, such as them showing off skin in situations where it really didn't make sense. Granted Meryl was a pretty good character, but with the presence of Quiet I don't think Kojima has the most healthy attitude towards women.

Awfully convenient for you to leave out how males are sexualized to the same extent as women in the MGS series. And the fact of how scarce the information on Quiet is. As for the rest of your post on how lazily Skullface was handled, I agree.

Hm, I suppose when I think about it vamp did have his shirt open a lot, and we did get a rather good look at snake's lovely buttocks. Still, Quiet is leaving a bad taste in my mouth from the impression that we've got. She goes a wee bit too far.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

It doesn't help that Metal Gear has a history of treated female characters less than ideally, such as them showing off skin in situations where it really didn't make sense. Granted Meryl was a pretty good character, but with the presence of Quiet I don't think Kojima has the most healthy attitude towards women.

Awfully convenient for you to leave out how males are sexualized to the same extent as women in the MGS series. And the fact of how scarce the information on Quiet is. As for the rest of your post on how lazily Skullface was handled, I agree.

Hm, I suppose when I think about it vamp did have his shirt open a lot, and we did get a rather good look at snake's lovely buttocks. Still, Quiet is leaving a bad taste in my mouth from the impression that we've got. She goes a wee bit too far.

That's just what it is. An impression. Don't play Mass Effect 2, then. You'll hate Jack

 

[ToastiestZombie]

It doesn't help that Metal Gear has a history of treated female characters less than ideally, such as them showing off skin in situations where it really didn't make sense. Granted Meryl was a pretty good character, but with the presence of Quiet I don't think Kojima has the most healthy attitude towards women.

Awfully convenient for you to leave out how males are sexualized to the same extent as women in the MGS series. And the fact of how scarce the information on Quiet is. As for the rest of your post on how lazily Skullface was handled, I agree.

Hm, I suppose when I think about it vamp did have his shirt open a lot, and we did get a rather good look at snake's lovely buttocks. Still, Quiet is leaving a bad taste in my mouth from the impression that we've got. She goes a wee bit too far.

I'd say Naked Raiden is a bit more than Quiet. Then in Peace Walker you had this:

Spoiler