Metroid....-vania?

[Roboshi]

So I was watching a review for one of the many Metroidvania style games when I suddenly stopped and thought about the term itself.

Metroidvania

After mulling it over a little I came to a weird conclusion; the "-vania" part of that word has no need to be there. As the Castlevania titles that resulted in the term being used did not add any elements that would define what it takes to be a metroidvania title. The only things they add are the setting and a leveling system, bot of which haven't carried over into other IPs claiming to be metroidvania in style.

Castlevania; SotN is an excellent game, but rather than calling it the birth of the "metroidvania" should we not be calling it the first of the successful Metroid-like games?

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

I think it's due to its popularity and the fact that there are still probably more Metroid-style Castlevania titles modelled after SotN alone than there are 2D Metroid games period. It's not really a type of game we can expect to see from the current games industry.

Castlevania just fit the style extremely well, and the name rolls off the tongue much easier than 'Metroid-like'.

 

[Roboshi]

I think it's due to its popularity and the fact that there are still probably more Metroid-style Castlevania titles modelled after SotN alone than there are 2D Metroid games period. It's not really a type of game we can expect to see from the current games industry.

Castlevania just fit the style extremely well, and the name rolls off the tongue much easier than 'Metroid-like'.

But again, surely if they are modelled after SotN they are modeled after Metroid more, as they tend not to have the levelling system SotN added. After all the castlevania games are only slightly more numerous than Metroid games and half of those were just normal action platformers.

 

[VoidOfOne]

The term grew to prominence after Symphony of the Night, and many of the Castlevania games that came out were of the same style, mainly on handhelds. Since those were the first Castlevania games played by many people of that time, the style was attributed to Castlevania. From then, the term just grew.

Much like the word "IPad" is more prominent than "Tablet".

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[Lazule]

Its just gaming slang that stuck. I say it fits the definition pretty well but if you use "Metroid-like" the crowd is going to understand as well.

Also strangely both Castlevania and Metroid stopped making "Metroidvanias" all together (except on handhelds)... WHY!? Ah, anyway that's another topic.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

I've had this exact same thought before. Castlevania just muscled in on Metroid's territory and somehow managed to become a dual headliner. What's more, because of this everyone associates Castlevania with Symphony of the Night and its lacklustre clones and ignores the amazing classics like Castlevania (the first one) and Rondo of Blood.

Anyway I usually use the terms "Metroid style" or "open world platformer".

 

[CrystalShadow]

Its just gaming slang that stuck. I say it fits the definition pretty well but if you use "Metroid-like" the crowd is going to understand as well.

Also strangely both Castlevania and Metroid stopped making "Metroidvanias" all together (except on handhelds)... WHY!? Ah, anyway that's another topic.

Depends on how you define it really. If you ignore the 2d Element, all of the metroid prime series still follows the basic logic of a metroidvania...

As for Other M... That's even more clear, since large portions of it are 2d environments. (And the plot backflips it had to do to get the usual item progression into the game are a big contributor as to why everyone hates it so much)


To me the core of the gameplay style is basically Freely explorable world with the bounds defined by the character's abilities.
(Which increase over time depending on new items or whatever else the setting can come up with.)

Basically, an environment where you can go anywhere you like, but some parts appear to be blocked off until you gain a new ability.
(Which is where the progression comes in. It's not progression in the sense that most RPG's use it. It's progression in the sense that you literally gain entirely new abilities that let you do new things)

Actually, come to think of it, there's at least some degree of overlap with how Zelda functions in terms of gameplay mechanics...

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

I love Metroidvania, especially teh Metroid specifically, but I never got the name either. I guess there are positives, though. Remember back when first person shooters were called Doom-clones? Now, imagine if SotN, later Castlevanias and the recent explosion of indie titles were called Metroid-clones. Also, despite Ninty sitting on one of their best IPs for a combined total of over a decade, the name at least gives Metroid some publicity.

As for Other M... That's even more clear, since large portions of it are 2d environments. (And the plot backflips it had to do to get the usual item progression into the game are a big contributor as to why everyone hates it so much)

I think both M:OM and Fusion were really borderline. (Fusion gets a pass because it's actually good, though.) The player was railroaded, with no option to explore too far off the intended path until the endgame (or epilogue, in Other M's case). That really grates against the whole idea of item-based progression and, of course, non-linearity the genre is known for.

Actually, come to think of it, there's at least some degree of overlap with how Zelda functions in terms of gameplay mechanics...

That's another interesting thing that took me a while to realize. Zelda's only differences is the top-down/3D views and the self contained dungeons that are usually never revisited (and you can see coming from miles away, something Prime 2 and Prime 3's patterns of temples and Leviathans sort of borrowed from Zelda). The Shantae games are called Metroidvanias, but they are laid out like side-scrolling Zelda games, with dungeons and shops. Both of those are considered Metroidvanias by TV Tropes. Metroidvania has a really blurry and subjective definition.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I love Metroidvania, especially teh Metroid specifically, but I never got the name either. I guess there are positives, though. Remember back when first person shooters were called Doom-clones? Now, imagine if SotN, later Castlevanias and the recent explosion of indie titles were called Metroid-clones. Also, despite Ninty sitting on one of their best IPs for a combined total of over a decade, the name at least gives Metroid some publicity.

As for Other M... That's even more clear, since large portions of it are 2d environments. (And the plot backflips it had to do to get the usual item progression into the game are a big contributor as to why everyone hates it so much)

I think both M:OM and Fusion were really borderline. (Fusion gets a pass because it's actually good, though.) The player was railroaded, with no option to explore too far off the intended path until the endgame (or epilogue, in Other M's case). That really grates against the whole idea of item-based progression and, of course, non-linearity the genre is known for.

That's a good point. Although there was a lot of backtracking of sorts in Fusion it did like to lead you by the nose.
I wouldn't actually say that Super Metroid is all that much more open than that, but it doesn't lead you around quite so much, and does revisit things far more frequently.
(And relies on you remembering that there was a door you couldn't get through some way back)

I wouldn't call super-metroid non-linear either, to be honest. I mean, it did let you roam about quite a bit, but there was a definite order to things that took considerable effort to deviate from.

Trying to force things to be more linear seems to be an ongoing trend with Nintendo though.

Compare A link to the past with Ocarina of time, and then twilight princess and Skyward sword.

All are structured linearly, but a Link to the past contains a massive sequence break that opens up exploration of most of the dark world, and the ability to many dungeons out of order.

In Ocarina of time you can do the shadow and spirit temples out of order if you're really determined...

But in Twilight princess, and Skyward Sword even more so, The structure starts to be so rigid you literally can't do anything out of sequence.

I wonder if the setup in a link to the past was intentional, but whether it was or not, it's obvious they've been trying to lock the games down more and more tightly over the years.

Actually, come to think of it, there's at least some degree of overlap with how Zelda functions in terms of gameplay mechanics...

That's another interesting thing that took me a while to realize. Zelda's only differences is the top-down/3D views and the self contained dungeons that are usually never revisited (and you can see coming from miles away, something Prime 2 and Prime 3's patterns of temples and Leviathans sort of borrowed from Zelda). The Shantae games are called Metroidvanias, but they are laid out like side-scrolling Zelda games, with dungeons and shops. Both of those are considered Metroidvanias by TV Tropes. Metroidvania has a really blurry and subjective definition.[/quote]

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

{snip}

Super Metroid certainly had an intended sequence, but I've heard conflicting stories that all of its sequence breaking was completely intentional and many breaks were lucky accidents. Zero Mission's were obviously planned, as I've gotten stuck on purpose sequence breaking only to eventually find a missile block or some such put there just for my situation. But, what was so great about both of those is you could go off the beaten path, then circle around to walk the wrong direction on that path.

I also really miss the non-linearity in Nintendo games. Just like you said, TP and SS don't let you deviate from the proper dungeon order. I would have liked to take on the Wind temple before the Earth Temple in WW at least once, too, as their respective items were not needing in the other. It just gives games more replay value.

Not that it's always a good thing to have that much freedom. (Without an in game guide, at least. That's what I like about Zero Mission: hand holding for newbies and complete freedom for vets.) I played ALttP once and forgot (literately, not because of fear of it) to go through the Ice Palace. I wondered why I couldn't get into Ganon's Tower, until I looked at the map and saw the one crystal still flashing in the lake. Since the item for the Ice Palace is the Blue Mail, I could get that far with no trouble (well things hurt more). I was fine with going back, but some players might be in tears after being brutalized by Turtle Rock, only to find out the Ice Palace remains unconquered. Maybe that's why Nintendo has been locking the sequence more games, because of idiots like me that rush onward without checking the map.

 

[Fappy]

I use the term too, but I agree that it's kinda weird. If it didn't exist I would just call it a Metroid-like game. Honestly, it's a genre I'd love to see more of.

 

[hybridial]

The Topic creator is absolutely correct. I use the term Metroidesque myself.

Part of it is the logic, part of it is I didn't like Symphony of the Night but adore Super Metroid

 

[Nazulu]

The reason trends like this come in is because it's catchier, hence easier to say. As many have said before, it rolls of the tongue beautifully, so why change such a great name just because some people feel the need to be more accurate? It's not like it's hurting anyone.

If you can come up with a catchier name then I'm all for it, but good luck beating Metroidvania.

Also off topic, I want more games like Super Metroid God Dammit! My favourite genre and it's mostly half-assed now.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Strictly speaking, the first Metroid game and the first Castlevania game that could be considered to be "Metroidvania" games came out in the same year. Metorid came out in August, 1986, and Vampire Killer(a non-linear exploration focused remake of the original Castlevania) came out on the MSX2 in October of the same year. So if you want to be pedantic, Metroid was the first, but not by much.

Granted, the Metroidvania term came about after SotN, but still, I can't say that there is no basis for the combination.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

There was a time when they were also called Castletroids, which is less syllables, but the other nomenclature won out pretty much universally for some reason.

Whatever you call them I wish there were more of them, especially from the 2 principle IPs that "started" it.

Both were great and not so great in 2D, and have great and awful 3D entries as well.

Good: Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission, Metroid Prime 1&2
Bad: Other M, Metroid Prime 3

Good: Symphony of the Night, Curse of Darkness, Lament of Innocence, Aria of Sorrow
Bad: Castlevania 64, Lords of Shadow 1&2/Mirror of Fail.

Xeodrifter was not that great, but solid. If it had a little more to it, even so far as having more variety in bosses that would have done wonders. Or they could have hammered home that it was the same boss, and it evolved and followed you from planet to planet as that would have made so much more sense since it is the same model, palette-swapped, with slightly different moves each time. The gun system was pretty broken as well. There was almost no reason to use half the mods, as the ones that increased velocity, damage, and size were way better.

Shantae is a series that I don't even get half the time. It has great art, music, and characters yet it recycles just about everything again and again in every game including enemies, locations, items, entire plot scenarios. The latest game is way better about it as there are actually new islands to go to but I swear that each game is made with at least 70% recycled material.

The best game in the genre in many years, including Metroid and Castlevania games (sadly especially those) is Shovel Knight. And its not even finished getting more and more awesome a year afterwards.

 

[RealRT]

Because it was one of the first series to adopt Metroid's style and also one of the most popular series to do so? Plus, Metroidvania rolls off the tongue better than "Metroid-style platformer".

 

[CrystalShadow]

{snip}

Super Metroid certainly had an intended sequence, but I've heard conflicting stories that all of its sequence breaking was completely intentional and many breaks were lucky accidents. Zero Mission's were obviously planned, as I've gotten stuck on purpose sequence breaking only to eventually find a missile block or some such put there just for my situation. But, what was so great about both of those is you could go off the beaten path, then circle around to walk the wrong direction on that path.

I also really miss the non-linearity in Nintendo games. Just like you said, TP and SS don't let you deviate from the proper dungeon order. I would have liked to take on the Wind temple before the Earth Temple in WW at least once, too, as their respective items were not needing in the other. It just gives games more replay value.

Not that it's always a good thing to have that much freedom. (Without an in game guide, at least. That's what I like about Zero Mission: hand holding for newbies and complete freedom for vets.) I played ALttP once and forgot (literately, not because of fear of it) to go through the Ice Palace. I wondered why I couldn't get into Ganon's Tower, until I looked at the map and saw the one crystal still flashing in the lake. Since the item for the Ice Palace is the Blue Mail, I could get that far with no trouble (well things hurt more). I was fine with going back, but some players might be in tears after being brutalized by Turtle Rock, only to find out the Ice Palace remains unconquered. Maybe that's why Nintendo has been locking the sequence more games, because of idiots like me that rush onward without checking the map.

It's quite possible. Though that would make me a little sad.

My favourite thing to do in ALLTP is basically this:

Do the light world dungeons in order, and the first dark world dungeon. I then skip ahead to dungeon 4 and get the Titan's mitt, which lets me go anywhere in the dark world.

From there I kind of do whatever. Usually go back and do dungeons 2 and 3.

Then I skip ahead to dungeon 6 - misery mire (the swamp), to get the cane of Somaria, which makes a particularly annoying sliding block puzzle in dungeon 5 much easier. (The GBA version modified this puzzle and made it less of a pain)

From there I kind of just do whatever.

So my typical path through the dark world tends to be 1,4,2,3,6,5,7,8

Obviously, I'm still doing large parts of it in order, but quite a few things out of order as well. And it disappoints me that the newer games just won't let you do that.

I wish they'd reconsider, and maybe think about how you give people a bit more freedom without making it too difficult for people that don't know what they're doing, and might get messed up by it.

Surely there has to be some kind of compromise possible...

 

[CaitSeith]

snip

I think it's because Metroid-like didn't sound as appealing as Metroidvania. Metroid was very popular and Castlevania was very popular (even before SotN). Combining the genres of both games sounded awesome, and the resulting game was great too.

 

[Roboshi]

Because it was one of the first series to adopt Metroid's style and also one of the most popular series to do so? Plus, Metroidvania rolls off the tongue better than "Metroid-style platformer".

And yet we say Rogue-like or Rogue-lite instead of Rogue-lunky.