Metroid....-vania?

[RealRT]

Because it was one of the first series to adopt Metroid's style and also one of the most popular series to do so? Plus, Metroidvania rolls off the tongue better than "Metroid-style platformer".

And yet we say Rogue-like or Rogue-lite instead of Rogue-lunky.

Because, again, it rolls off the tongue better. Metroid-ish doesn't sound good. Metroidvania on the other hand sounds cool. And really, what's your beef? Doesn't Metroid get enough acclaim? It gets too much of it, if you ask me.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I still feel the term is very unfitting. Despite their similarities, Metroid and Metroidvania-style Castlvania games feel different enough. I guess it makes sense people group them together since not many games try similar game mechanics and designs, yet I think it's a bit unfair to both franchises.

 

[RandV80]

Its just gaming slang that stuck. I say it fits the definition pretty well but if you use "Metroid-like" the crowd is going to understand as well.

Also strangely both Castlevania and Metroid stopped making "Metroidvanias" all together (except on handhelds)... WHY!? Ah, anyway that's another topic.

Depends on how you define it really. If you ignore the 2d Element, all of the metroid prime series still follows the basic logic of a metroidvania...

As for Other M... That's even more clear, since large portions of it are 2d environments. (And the plot backflips it had to do to get the usual item progression into the game are a big contributor as to why everyone hates it so much)


To me the core of the gameplay style is basically Freely explorable world with the bounds defined by the character's abilities.
(Which increase over time depending on new items or whatever else the setting can come up with.)

Basically, an environment where you can go anywhere you like, but some parts appear to be blocked off until you gain a new ability.
(Which is where the progression comes in. It's not progression in the sense that most RPG's use it. It's progression in the sense that you literally gain entirely new abilities that let you do new things)

Actually, come to think of it, there's at least some degree of overlap with how Zelda functions in terms of gameplay mechanics...

For first iterations of their respective franchises you can actually group Metroid, Zelda, and Metal Gear all together. Rather than following a linear path through the game you had choice to move around back and forward, and had to collect items to access new areas.

The first Castlevania certainly wasn't like that, and I kind of missed the transformation of it into being Metroid-like. I've actually never played a 'Metroidvania' Castlevania game. I played the very first one, don't remember it too well, and on my Wii in the shop bought IV for the SNES expecting to get that but was disappointed with a straight platformer.

So I'm lacking knowledge in Castlevania, but I wonder if it isn't more accurately grouped with another now forgotten game: Sega's Wonder Boy in Monsterland series. That may have been side scrolling like Metroid, but it had more in common with Zelda really.

 

[Signa]

I also like how Metroidvania sounds like Metroid Mania, which is something I made up in my head and is also awesome.

 

[Chester Rabbit]

Yeah when I was first introduced to the genre name I was like "Wait what? Why are we adding the vania when castlevania was doing what Metroid did?"

But over time I have just come to accept it. But it still doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it's because Symphony of the Night just made that big of an impact on people that it and Metroid are kind of just lumped together now as the originators of the concept?

 

[Silence]

I thought I liked Metroidvania-games. Then I realized I don't really like RPG-elements if they are in them. Means I like only Metroid-like games?

But I also understand the term was (weirdly enough) first coined by Castlevania (even though Metroid was first in this style of game).

 

[Lazule]

To me the core of the gameplay style is basically Freely explorable world with the bounds defined by the character's abilities.
(Which increase over time depending on new items or whatever else the setting can come up with.)

Basically, an environment where you can go anywhere you like, but some parts appear to be blocked off until you gain a new ability.
(Which is where the progression comes in. It's not progression in the sense that most RPG's use it. It's progression in the sense that you literally gain entirely new abilities that let you do new things)

Actually, come to think of it, there's at least some degree of overlap with how Zelda functions in terms of gameplay mechanics...

No. Its not about the 2D. Call me crazy but...

Actually believe it or not Dark Souls is a Metroidvania (Yahtzee supports this idea watch his Dark Souls vid). Its not about the abilities either its how the game's world is linked together. In Dark Souls you don't have special powers to reach areas either, you must trigger certain cut scenes to open up more dungeons and proceed, also the master key links dungeons together.

Want another example of a Metroidvania game?

Banjo Tooie all the worlds ("dungeons") can be linked together via secret switches that open passages to each other. Although this game also has an over-world.

Metroidvania is in the level design for the most part, in that its somewhat linear but at the same time it is "open". Its the illusion of an open world in a linear level design with alternative passages that connect different levels. And how you link em? With anything you please, key items, ability moves (like you said), cut scene/event trigger, etc.

I consider Metroidvania to be one of the best approaches to level design because you don't have the emptiness/lack of content of the open worlds.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiCB8ycl8QI

 

[CrystalShadow]

To me the core of the gameplay style is basically Freely explorable world with the bounds defined by the character's abilities.
(Which increase over time depending on new items or whatever else the setting can come up with.)

Basically, an environment where you can go anywhere you like, but some parts appear to be blocked off until you gain a new ability.
(Which is where the progression comes in. It's not progression in the sense that most RPG's use it. It's progression in the sense that you literally gain entirely new abilities that let you do new things)

Actually, come to think of it, there's at least some degree of overlap with how Zelda functions in terms of gameplay mechanics...

No. Its not about the 2D. Call me crazy but...

Actually believe it or not Dark Souls is a Metroidvania (Yahtzee supports this idea watch his Dark Souls vid). Its not about the abilities either its how the game's world is linked together. In Dark Souls you don't have special powers to reach areas either, you must trigger certain cut scenes to open up more dungeons and proceed, also the master key links dungeons together.

Want another example of a Metroidvania game?

Banjo Tooie all the worlds ("dungeons") can be linked together via secret switches that open passages to each other. Although this game also has an over-world.

Metroidvania is in the level design for the most part, in that its somewhat linear but at the same time it is "open". Its the illusion of an open world in a linear level design with alternative passages that connect different levels. And how you link em? With anything you please, key items, ability moves (like you said), cut scene/event trigger, etc.

I consider Metroidvania to be one of the best approaches to level design because you don't have the emptiness/lack of content of the open worlds.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiCB8ycl8QI

That's an interesting take on things. Not one I'd agree with really, but interesting, nonetheless.
Sure, it kind of works, in the sense that items can 'unlock' progress as much as events can, but that really messes up a lot of the effect of the structure.

One opens up more freedom in exploration through making the player more capable in some way, the other just makes it happen through some random circumstance.
... Doesn't have the same kind of feel to it at all.

Genres in games are defined in a pretty nebulous manner though. Portal isn't an FPS, yet it is mechanically. action-adventure sits in some really vague territory. Platformer is at least kind of bound by it's core mechanic, but little else about it is defined.
Adventure games are a very specific style of gameplay focused on story and puzzles.
RPG's seem to be about story and character and things, but it's a pretty broad classification that covers a huge amount of territory.

We aren't very consistent with how we define game genres really, so in the end can we really say with much certainty what precisely defines a sort of niche genre that is still being defined by the games it came from, rather than a proper generic term?
I'm not entirely sure we can.

 

[Worgen]

Because nothing has been able to unseat them. We tend to call specific mechanics like that by the last aaa game to really do them well. Like we call games god of war clones instead of devil may cry clones. No other aaa game has tried to use the metroidvania mechanics in such a way as to outshine super metroid or symphony of the night..

 

[MonsterCrit]

So I was watching a review for one of the many Metroidvania style games when I suddenly stopped and thought about the term itself.

Metroidvania

After mulling it over a little I came to a weird conclusion; the "-vania" part of that word has no need to be there. As the Castlevania titles that resulted in the term being used did not add any elements that would define what it takes to be a metroidvania title. The only things they add are the setting and a leveling system, bot of which haven't carried over into other IPs claiming to be metroidvania in style.

Castlevania; SotN is an excellent game, but rather than calling it the birth of the "metroidvania" should we not be calling it the first of the successful Metroid-like games?

Actually OP... the CastleVania did add more than that. You're probably a little on the young side since your reference is coming from the PS1 Game... but if you step back to the Nes you realize the maine difference between Castlevania and Metroid... that is the COmbat. Metroid was never knwon for much in the way of fast paced combat, or particularly difficult combat. Castlevania on the other hand... oh yeah.. The combat is 3 levels of frustration... if you think those medusa heads are bad now... maaaan you would have hated them in Castlevania and Castlevania 3.

In a metroid game, the enemies are more their for your convenience as a way to grind to refill you ammo and e-tanks. Castlevania... the classic castlevania, they were part of the obstacles.

Also the term comes from the "Great Debate" as to which game to be used as a reference to the genre. It started innocently enough. Two people ina Gamestop... but it escaleted, it spilled into the mall, then out into the streets towns, cities soon got divided along loyalties. I'm not proud to say, things got messy in that argument... it was so bad that the history books and news archives vowed not to speak of the Gamerwar of 1998-1999. Many of us lost brothers to those goddamned 'Vanias' that year. The 1999 peace accord covered it up and the media fabricated the Y2k story and panic as a smokescreen to distract everyone from the horror. Things almost got heated up again though when the debate over which name should be the first word ione the term. The vVanias howeve rescinded their protests when they realized the name "Castleroid' sounded pretty lame..

 

[Roboshi]

I still feel the term is very unfitting. Despite their similarities, Metroid and Metroidvania-style Castlvania games feel different enough. I guess it makes sense people group them together since not many games try similar game mechanics and designs, yet I think it's a bit unfair to both franchises.

I suppose I just find it odd that a game gets put in the genre title when it hasn't actually defined the genre it was just the first to apply it to a different IP.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

So I was watching a review for one of the many Metroidvania style games when I suddenly stopped and thought about the term itself.

Metroidvania

After mulling it over a little I came to a weird conclusion; the "-vania" part of that word has no need to be there. As the Castlevania titles that resulted in the term being used did not add any elements that would define what it takes to be a metroidvania title. The only things they add are the setting and a leveling system, bot of which haven't carried over into other IPs claiming to be metroidvania in style.

Castlevania; SotN is an excellent game, but rather than calling it the birth of the "metroidvania" should we not be calling it the first of the successful Metroid-like games?

Well, you are entirely wrong. Castlevania II: Simon's Quest was the first Castlevania game to feature the Metroid-style gameplay, and that was actually in development before Metroid's release. While Castlevania II famously did not live up to the standard set by Metroid at the time, when Koji Igarashi got control of the series in the 16-bit era, he eventually perfected the elements that Castlevania I and II laid down.

Also, it is important to note that the developers of Metroid were heavily influenced by Castlevania's atmospheric setting, leading to great improvements in that area for Metroid II on Game Boy and Metroid III on SNES. What you have -and I assure you the people who coined the term Metroidvania were aware of this- is a confluence of influence, not one party simply ripping off another party. In a sense, the two series grew up together and influenced one another, so there is no reason to object to the terminology unless you feel that one or the other is so superior, that its counterpart is not worth mentioning.

 

[Prince of Ales]

Yeah the term is a little silly. But why fight against the tide? Language is made by peoples understandings. If people understand the term "Metroidvania" then it's a good term. It's like if you look up the technical definition of the word "strafe" then it means bugger all to do with what gamers think it means, but you can put in a manual "this is the strafe button" and people know what it means.

The comparisons to the Zelda series are very agreeable to me. You could have easily called Super Metroid a "platform Zelda game". It would have been very appropriate. I remember when the Tomb Raider (2013) remake came out, and some people described it as having "Metroidvania elements". I understood what they were talking about: each time you get a new item that allows you to pass through a certain obsticle/wall, then you're racking your brains trying to think of all the other times you saw that same obsticle/wall so you can backtrack and get all the secrets. That could very easily be described as "Zelda elements" though. It's just the case that "Metroidvania" is the term more people are familiar with.

Don't fight it. No point. People will call it what they want. If a term comes out as popular then get used to it. That's language for you.

 

[JagermanXcell]

Yeah I agree it's a silly term, but it's so... catchy, you know? Has a lot to do with the fact that SotN took such a young formula and amped it up so excellently that it stuck. Shame the genre has seen better days in the quantity department.

Speaking of this subject, I cannot WAIT for a new better name for "Souls-like games". Seems like everyone is hopping on the FromSoft school of sword and shield challenge crawlers and we've been stuck saying "Souls-like games" which frankly sounds a million times worse than Metroidvania.

Ex.

 

[Roboshi]

Well, you are entirely wrong. Castlevania II: Simon's Quest was the first Castlevania game to feature the Metroid-style gameplay, and that was actually in development before Metroid's release. While Castlevania II famously did not live up to the standard set by Metroid at the time, when Koji Igarashi got control of the series in the 16-bit era, he eventually perfected the elements that Castlevania I and II laid down.

Also, it is important to note that the developers of Metroid were heavily influenced by Castlevania's atmospheric setting, leading to great improvements in that area for Metroid II on Game Boy and Metroid III on SNES. What you have -and I assure you the people who coined the term Metroidvania were aware of this- is a confluence of influence, not one party simply ripping off another party. In a sense, the two series grew up together and influenced one another, so there is no reason to object to the terminology unless you feel that one or the other is so superior, that its counterpart is not worth mentioning.

You must've seen a different story to metroid than I did, the origin of metroid I saw was that it was based mostly on the film alien (hence the name dropping of ridley and the idea of a female protagonist) and the idea of navogating a metrolink underground railway (hence the name metroid, metro-oid).

I definitely wouldn't call Simons quest a metroidvania either, as the upgrades you get a rarely about progressing, they're more about weapon upgrades.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

So I was watching a review for one of the many Metroidvania style games when I suddenly stopped and thought about the term itself.

Metroidvania

After mulling it over a little I came to a weird conclusion; the "-vania" part of that word has no need to be there. As the Castlevania titles that resulted in the term being used did not add any elements that would define what it takes to be a metroidvania title. The only things they add are the setting and a leveling system, bot of which haven't carried over into other IPs claiming to be metroidvania in style.

Castlevania; SotN is an excellent game, but rather than calling it the birth of the "metroidvania" should we not be calling it the first of the successful Metroid-like games?

I think it's more from the fact that there hasn't been a true "Metroidvania"-style Metroid game since Super Metroid, and that game is over two decades old.

2D Castlevania, from SOTN forward, kept the gameplay formula alive.

So, in my mind, the term "Metroidvania" is a way of saying "Metroid invented it, Castlevania picked up the ball and kept it going, and arguably made it more famous."

 

[Professor Icepick]

I know a guy who gets really pissed off when the genre is described as a "Metroidvania". He tends to use that term for Castlevania games of that style. He uses "Metroid-like" for the genre. I kinda hope that catches on.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

You must've seen a different story to metroid than I did, the origin of metroid I saw was that it was based mostly on the film alien (hence the name dropping of ridley and the idea of a female protagonist) and the idea of navogating a metrolink underground railway (hence the name metroid, metro-oid).

I definitely wouldn't call Simons quest a metroidvania either, as the upgrades you get a rarely about progressing, they're more about weapon upgrades.

And what did I say that contradicted any of that? Well, Escapist has gone downhill, as it seems all people that I talk to know have the reading comprehension of second-graders.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Castlevania; SotN is an excellent game, but rather than calling it the birth of the "metroidvania" should we not be calling it the first of the successful Metroid-like games?

But it still doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it's because Symphony of the Night just made that big of an impact on people that it and Metroid are kind of just lumped together now as the originators of the concept?

I've had this exact same thought before. Castlevania just muscled in on Metroid's territory and somehow managed to become a dual headliner. What's more, because of this everyone associates Castlevania with Symphony of the Night and its lacklustre clones and ignores the amazing classics like Castlevania (the first one) and Rondo of Blood.

The reason trends like this come in is because it's catchier, hence easier to say. As many have said before, it rolls of the tongue beautifully, so why change such a great name just because some people feel the need to be more accurate? It's not like it's hurting anyone.

The reason why the term Metroidvania was coined is because SotN was the moment it became a genre rather then just a single franchise. Saying metroidvania games should be called "metroid-like" serves absolutely no descriptive purpose at all, because if I tell someone young that Shadow Complex is "Metroid-like" their first thought might be "...it's an exploration based FPS?". The Prime games exist, which completely destroys what is trying to be conveyed.

Both Castlevania and Metroid games differ quite a bit now in mechanics, layout and play style compared to their first iterations. The only, ONLY time these two games crossed and seemed similar was the era of Super Metroid/SotN, and any other similar games both franchises produced. Hence Metroidvania gives a very good picture of what you can expect from a genre called that.

 

[Roboshi]

You must've seen a different story to metroid than I did, the origin of metroid I saw was that it was based mostly on the film alien (hence the name dropping of ridley and the idea of a female protagonist) and the idea of navogating a metrolink underground railway (hence the name metroid, metro-oid).

I definitely wouldn't call Simons quest a metroidvania either, as the upgrades you get a rarely about progressing, they're more about weapon upgrades.

And what did I say that contradicted any of that? Well, Escapist has gone downhill, as it seems all people that I talk to know have the reading comprehension of second-graders.

Now hey now there's no need for insults and especially not insulting my reading ability as you make a grammatical error in your post (know =/= now).

Your post was that Simons quest was the inspiration for the concepts and general tone of metroid and I was suggesting Metroid was based more on the movie Alien.