Michael Bay Optimus Prime Too Violent?

[Cicada 5]

While I do agree that the Bay Transformers movies have a lot of problems (juvenile humor, offensive stereotypes, excessive objectification) one complaint that keeps popping up is that Bay's Optimus is some sociopath who takes pleasure in killing. I mean, yeah, he tends to go for the head/face a lot, but that's where his enemies are least protected. And it's not like he didn't have good reasons to be angry in Dark of the Moon and Age of Extinction and even in those movies he still showed enough restraint to only go after the people who'd really wronged him.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

LOL

Are people really complaining about that?! I just don't see it.

Maybe he needs a catch phrase like "OPTIMUS SMASH"

 

[Aerosteam]

Hmm... this part didn't look like he had restraints though...


*Crawling on the ground, defenceless*
"No, Optimus!"
*Gets shot in the face*

 

[Cicada 5]

Hmm... this part didn't look like he had restraints though...


*Crawling on the ground, defenceless*
"No, Optimus!"
*Gets shot in the face*

Exactly the moment I was thinking when I saw the thread title. He decapitates Megatron, who is probably too weak to really put up a fight, and then he executes an enemy who has surrendered and certainly is too weak to put up a fight. Optimus Prime is an outright murderer in Bayformers. Thats murder and he doesn't even feel bad about it. If he at least felt bad about doing these things I could forgive it but he's just murdering folks with no remorse even as they're literally crawling on the ground, defeated and begging for mercy.

Megatron was far from defenseless and was still an enemy combatant. Sentinnel had betrayed the Autobots and nearly destroyed Earth. Optimus was alsom missing an arm when he killed them, so it's not like he wasn't vulnerable either.

 

[Cicada 5]

Megatron was far from defenseless and was still an enemy combatant.

Megatron literally had just proposed a truce and in that moment Optimus decided to take a cheap swing at him with his axe.

Sentinnel had betrayed the Autobots and nearly destroyed Earth.

Yes, I know, I unfortunately saw the movie. Stooping to the level of the villain is what a hero is supposed to do now though? Cuz thats what he did. Sentinel shot Ironhide in the back, killing him in an act of betrayal. Optimus executes a defenseless POW. More or less the same thing. Then there's the fact that Sentinel actually was about to execute Optimus Prime as he begged for his life before Sentinel got interrupted. That literally is sinking to the same level as the villain.

Optimus was alsom missing an arm when he killed them

Sentinel was gutted and lying on the ground defenseless after Megatron just ripped out his waist. He couldn't even stand up.

Megatron's "truce" was nothing more than a farce. He wanted to rule Cybertron again despite him being the reason it was in such a sorry state. He doesn't even sound serious when he calls for a truce. He's clearly mocking Prime. The only reason he shot Sentinnel in the back was because Carly reminded him that he'd just be "Sentinnel's *****". They're called Decepticons for a reason. And given Optimus had called out Sentinnel for siding with Megatron him taking Megatron's deal would have been pretty hypocritical.

Given the magnitude of Sentinnel's crimes I'm not shedding any tears over his death. He wasn't a POW either as Optimus never stated he was. Plus, at least Optimus wasn't laughing like a sadist when he shot Sentinnel unlike Soundwave when he killed Que. That would have been Optimus sinking to a villain's level.

 

[Breakdown]

There's a bit in Revenge of the Fallen where Optimus Prime digs his fingers into a Decepticon's face, and rips his head apart from either side. That's a pretty extreme way of killing somebody.

Not sure which Decepticon it was though, apart from Bumblebee and Optimus Prime all of the other Transformers look the same.

 

[Cicada 5]

There's a bit in Revenge of the Fallen where Optimus Prime digs his fingers into a Decepticon's face, and rips his head apart from either side. That's a pretty extreme way of killing somebody.

Not sure which Decepticon it was though, apart from Bumblebee and Optimus Prime all of the other Transformers look the same.

It was the Fallen, the Big Bad of the film. ANd like I said, he was merely attacking the Transformer weak spot.

 

[Breakdown]

There's a bit in Revenge of the Fallen where Optimus Prime digs his fingers into a Decepticon's face, and rips his head apart from either side. That's a pretty extreme way of killing somebody.

Not sure which Decepticon it was though, apart from Bumblebee and Optimus Prime all of the other Transformers look the same.

It was the Fallen, the Big Bad of the film. ANd like I said, he was merely attacking the Transformer weak spot.

It happened earlier in the film as far as I can remember, I never made it to the end. I'm not even sure what the Fallen looks like.

You wouldn't see Rocky Balboa biting somebody's ear off to win a boxing match, or Spider-Man gouging a bank robber's eyes out. If you have a heroic protagonist in a family film it's probably best if they don't fight like a psychotic lunatic.

 

[Cicada 5]

There's a bit in Revenge of the Fallen where Optimus Prime digs his fingers into a Decepticon's face, and rips his head apart from either side. That's a pretty extreme way of killing somebody.

Not sure which Decepticon it was though, apart from Bumblebee and Optimus Prime all of the other Transformers look the same.

It was the Fallen, the Big Bad of the film. ANd like I said, he was merely attacking the Transformer weak spot.

It happened earlier in the film as far as I can remember, I never made it to the end. I'm not even sure what the Fallen looks like.

You wouldn't see Rocky Balboa biting somebody's ear off to win a boxing match, or Spider-Man gouging a bank robber's eyes out. If you have a heroic protagonist in a family film it's probably best if they don't fight like a psychotic lunatic.

Rocky and Spider-Man don't fight nigh indestructible robots on a daily basis.

 

[the December King]

Although I haven't kept up on the Transformers, I do sympathize with the idea that good guys should not fight like bad guys, at least in certain genres. For example, in horror, I find a certain catharsis in revenge flicks, but only to a certain extent- the anti-hero in such pieces is often either consumed with uncontrollable rage or becoming deranged themselves, and often the horror of the situation becomes how close or over the line a protagonist is (for me, 28 Days Later is the perfect example of this, but The Descent is another good example).

 

[Ryotknife]

Even if Megatron and Sentinel were captured, it is nigh impossible to secure them. Human technology is great on the attack, damn near useless when it comes to defense. Case in point, in the second movie the shard was in "the most secure base in the world," decepticons stole it without hardly any effort at all, tore the base apart without encountering any real resistance. Hell, the two decepticons used were not even impressive ones. In the first movie, a single transformer took out a massive military base with ease (with dozens of tanks and aircrafts). Okay, yes humans didnt know about them at that point, but the amount of firepower available at that base was enough to take out a dozen transformers. An entire carrier group, the height of military power, was destroyed with ease. We had a bunch of naval vessels defending Megatron's corpse and they did fuck all to stop his revival.

But what about when Megatron was on ice? Well, one no one knew where he was, and that trick wont work twice. Two, apparently it requires so much power as it make it child's play to de-ice him. All it took was one decepticon to breach a secret military base.

Which brings us to the crux of the issue, transformers are an army onto themselves. Capturing them alive would bring us to a Joker scenario where the Joker kills a whole bunch of people, gets thrown in prison, escapes, kills more people, gets tossed back in prison, and repeats ad nausum.

 

[Cicada 5]

Megatron's "truce" was nothing more than a farce.

Oh I know he wanted to fight again, but thats the whole thing about a truce. Truces are temporary, not permanent. Still though, dude was offering a temporary peace and Optimus' response is to decapitate him like out of Predator.

Given the magnitude of Sentinnel's crimes I'm not shedding any tears over his death.

Doesn't matter whether you like him or not, its how he should be treated. Doing the right thing even when you want to do something differently is called "being principled" and its one of the hallmarks of a hero.

He wasn't a POW either as Optimus never stated he was.

Oh come on now. Severely wounded and defenseless, he's surrendering unconditionally. By any reasonable standard that person would be a prisoner of war and if somebody shot such a person in real life it'd be considered a war crime, let alone shooting him twice, which is what Optimus does.

Plus, at least Optimus wasn't laughing like a sadist when he shot Sentinnel unlike Soundwave when he killed Que.

So? We're not talking about Soundwave, we're talking about Optimus Prime. You're pulling out the "but their parents let them do it!" pleading.

That would have been Optimus sinking to a villain's level.

Besides actions being the determining factor of whether somebody has done good or not Optimus did stoop that low. He shot Sentinel through the chest first, and then Sentinel rolled over and Optimus shot him through the head. Thats not a double-tap either, thats cruelty.

Rocky and Spider-Man don't fight nigh indestructible robots on a daily basis.

Oh, so if Megatron is a nigh indestructible robot wouldn't that also make Optimus Prime a nigh indestructible robot? If thats the case then wouldn't this justification fall by the wayside?

So you admit that Megatron's peace was temporary at best but still give Optimus flak for killing him before the guy could knife him in the back? He's a Decepticon. there name comes from the words "deception" and "con". Why would Optimus believe anything out of Megatron's mouth?

Sentinnel did not surrender. He tried to justify his heinous actions to someone who moments ago he dismembered and betrayed.

The fact that Optimus isn't showing any enjoyment in these killings more than puts him above the Decepticons in terms of morality.

Megatron survived getting half his face blown off by Optimus in the second film and his spark was still alive despite being decapitated. Frenzy in the first film also survives decapitation. The Decepticons in these movies are shown as being larger and more difficult to put down compared to the Autobots in these movies. Hence why it's important that the Autobots and humans work together when fighting them.

These movies aren't the G! cartoons where nobody died and the shots always missed. Hell, Optimus started acting like his Bay incarnation in the 80s movie as soon as the Decepticons started getting serious.

 

[Scarim Coral]

While I do agreed (I did thought it was a dick moved to killed Megatron when they had kinda worked together against Sentinel especially when Megatron was pretty much a homeless bum in RoTF, seriously he lived in the middle of Africa, had a worn out cape and was still battle damaged from the last film) but would you wanted a merciful Optimus Prime in the movie?

I mean merciful as in like he simply kicked the Decepticon into submission and thrown them into some kind of a cybertronian cell or he simply let them get away like the cartoon (if the oppertunity arised to prevent them from escaping)? Heck maybe the Decepticon can be reason with to had simply forge a peace treaty with the Autobots?
Transformers Prime?

 

[Cicada 5]

While I do agreed (I did thought it was a dick moved to killed Megatron when they had kinda worked together against Sentinel especially when Megatron was pretty much a homeless bum in RoTF, seriously he lived in the middle of Africa, had a worn out cape and was still battle damaged from the last film) but would you wanted a merciful Optimus Prime in the movie?

I mean merciful as in like he simply kicked the Decepticon into submission and thrown them into some kind of a cybertronian cell or he simply let them get away like the cartoon (if the oppertunity arised to prevent them from escaping)? Heck maybe the Decepticon can be reason with to had simply forge a peace treaty with the Autobots?
Transformers Prime?

They didn't work together agaisnt Sentinnel. Megs blindsided Sentinnel while screaming, "this is my planet!".

 

[fix-the-spade]

*Crawling on the ground, defenceless*
"No, Optimus!"
*Gets shot in the face*

Well, his home world was destroyed, he and the survivors of the Autobots have been wandering the galaxy, possibly for centuries until they happened on Earth.

The planet is teeming with life, yet the Decepticons (also responsible for the destruction of Cybertron) are intent on not only murdering every last surviving Autobot (Optimus' friends and sole connection to his home planet), but exterminating a second planet filled with sentient life for the sake of their own agenda and desire for power.

All things considered, it's a surprise he isn't more violent all the time. He should be something like a cross between The Hulk and an industrial shredder, tearing up buildings and machine that even might be a Decepticon and ending conversations with traitorous humans by throwing them through a thirtieth floor window, from the outside.

 

[Breakdown]

*Crawling on the ground, defenceless*
"No, Optimus!"
*Gets shot in the face*

Well, his home world was destroyed, he and the survivors of the Autobots have been wandering the galaxy, possibly for centuries until they happened on Earth.

The planet is teeming with life, yet the Decepticons (also responsible for the destruction of Cybertron) are intent on not only murdering every last surviving Autobot (Optimus' friends and sole connection to his home planet), but exterminating a second planet filled with sentient life for the sake of their own agenda and desire for power.

All things considered, it's a surprise he isn't more violent all the time. He should be something like a cross between The Hulk and an industrial shredder, tearing up buildings and machine that even might be a Decepticon and ending conversations with traitorous humans by throwing them through a thirtieth floor window, from the outside.

If his home planet is destroyed, surely he'd be reluctant to kill a member of his own race, even if they were an enemy? It's just taking the transformer race one step closer to extinction.

 

[Aerosteam]

*Crawling on the ground, defenceless*
"No, Optimus!"
*Gets shot in the face*

Well, his home world was destroyed, he and the survivors of the Autobots have been wandering the galaxy, possibly for centuries until they happened on Earth.

The planet is teeming with life, yet the Decepticons (also responsible for the destruction of Cybertron) are intent on not only murdering every last surviving Autobot (Optimus' friends and sole connection to his home planet), but exterminating a second planet filled with sentient life for the sake of their own agenda and desire for power.

All things considered, it's a surprise he isn't more violent all the time. He should be something like a cross between The Hulk and an industrial shredder, tearing up buildings and machine that even might be a Decepticon and ending conversations with traitorous humans by throwing them through a thirtieth floor window, from the outside.

I'm absolutely for protagonists to let out fits of rage once in a while, but I don't expect it to come from Optimus Prime. But whatever, it's a Michael Bay film, I don't expect much loyalty to the source material.

 

[Cicada 5]

*Crawling on the ground, defenceless*
"No, Optimus!"
*Gets shot in the face*

Well, his home world was destroyed, he and the survivors of the Autobots have been wandering the galaxy, possibly for centuries until they happened on Earth.

The planet is teeming with life, yet the Decepticons (also responsible for the destruction of Cybertron) are intent on not only murdering every last surviving Autobot (Optimus' friends and sole connection to his home planet), but exterminating a second planet filled with sentient life for the sake of their own agenda and desire for power.

All things considered, it's a surprise he isn't more violent all the time. He should be something like a cross between The Hulk and an industrial shredder, tearing up buildings and machine that even might be a Decepticon and ending conversations with traitorous humans by throwing them through a thirtieth floor window, from the outside.

If his home planet is destroyed, surely he'd be reluctant to kill a member of his own race, even if they were an enemy? It's just taking the transformer race one step closer to extinction.

And letting the Decepticons kill him and the other Autobots will stop that, how?

 

[fix-the-spade]

If his home planet is destroyed, surely he'd be reluctant to kill a member of his own race, even if they were an enemy? It's just taking the transformer race one step closer to extinction.

At this point Optimus Prime would probably take extinction over allowing the Decepticons to keep carving their path of greed and destruction through the galaxy at the expense of all other life.

He's already lost his home planet to Megatron and friends, knowing how that feels, why would he stand idly by and watch them do it again to another race? Does a species that lives that way that even deserve to continue?

It's also worth noting that as Prime he's the only Autobot that matches the big Decepticons for size and strength. Nobody else is taking on Starscream and Megatron with any real hope of surviving, that alone would make you pretty ruthless in combat.

 

[Mahorfeus]

Yeah, he's pretty violent. Too violent? Hm. Well, compared to other portrayals, like in the cartoons, sure. Heck, in the third movie, right before the last big battle, if I remember correctly he literally says something along the lines of "We will kill them all!"

But I dunno, as much as there was wrong with the Transformers movies, I never had a problem with Optimus' characterization. Leaving aside the fact that the fights in the movies were often way more brutal than in the cartoons (in the shows, how often did either team leave without all of their members being more or less intact?), but I felt that he had a lot of righteous wrath. He wasn't saintly, but he still had a sense of honor and justice.

And in the movies, he actually loses faith in humanity for a time, another angle I don't think I've ever seen other Transformers media tackle.