In favor of what? A Playstation or Wii, which he does not want? I would agree if he had to pay for the replacements, but they're free. Why change the product?Ghost8585 said:
Microsoft: Hardware Failures Are "Well Behind Us"
- Thread starter Keane Ng
- Start date
The PS2 had it's share of class action lawsuits as well. People tend to forget that the first generation of those things had a disk drive issue that wasn't handled with a spec of the dignity and willingness to satisfy as the Xbox was. Hell, it's still hard to get Sony to resolve an issue with something as simple as a digital CAMERA, let alone any PS3 issues, of which thankfully there were few or that would have been the nail in their coffin.Ghost8585 said:
All in all, I'm still satisfied by my 360 and how microsoft handled the situation. They could have contrived all manner of excuses and half-assed ways to deal with it, but instead they went all out from the start, replacing units, acknowledging an issue, and making the entire process as painless as possible.
I'm willing to forgive those who make an effort to rectify their mistakes. It's called Second Chances, everyone deserves em.
After my laptop issues with Sony however, they burned any bridges of goodwill I had left for them. I don't like having to fight a company to accept their mistakes, fight to get them to fix it, and then fight to prove that some how, some way, everything is NOT actually MY fault.
My 360 hasn't Rrod'd *yet (knocks on wood)*, but it did get some disk reading errors. They were quick to fix it (for free) and return my console (within a week), and they even threw in a free month of XBL. Not bad I'd say. I think MS has a long way to go to shake their bad hardware rep, but with service like I had, they're well on their way.
It might be less likely to overheat, but the perfectly snug shelf I had it in has partially melted. Not that I'm complaining. The console works fine and now it has a surprisingly well done wooden finish.
No console will ever have a zero percent failure rate, but if they've gotten it down into acceptable levels then I see no problem with that.
I'd put another Pinochio joke in here, but considering they've "fixed th problem" five times before with no avail, I think their nose should've broken off at this point. They sshould admit they don't know squat about the problem or it'd be fixed by now. Warraanty or not, I don't approve of liars.
I didnt say you did. But considering that there is only one real competitor, the natural progression of thought points to provide an example using that competitor.Ghost8585 said:Thats funny, I didn't mention anything Sony...at all. Nice try but I wont bite the bait
You don't have to mention anything Sony, because it can go unsaid, considering that no other console/product is even close in comparison.
I mostly agree with you, every console has some failure rates and depending on where you look it has respectable rates. But being completely honest here, I can never look the other way at the atrocity of the RRoD and various other problems with the 360. It's always going to have that nagging feeling that every other time I'll turn it on it'll die on me. As I've said before, this goes with any of my electronics (hell, my iPod already died on me once for no reason, and it has shitty battery life for me, so it's already on this ice).AceDiamond said:
Well the iPod I could probably do a whole book on (bad battery life, resets 3 times in 10 minutes inexplicably). It's probably the fact that the RROD thing is nowhere near as bad as how my iPod behaves that keeps me feeling like Microsoft can at least fix things to a degreeJumplion said:
Difference is, there is only one REAL competitor for this console, and it's fanbase is every bit as rabid and willing to play up any faults as it's counterpart.Jumplion said:
THATS really why RROD seems like such an 'atrocity' because when Sony's PS2 disk drives were committing mass suicide, there wasn't really an alternative product with a strong enough fanbase to fill the gap and keep it in the media.
There also wasn't an internet.
The launch PS2s did have problems, yes, but that's true for practically every single console, including the 360, PS3, and Wii (interestingly, they all had disc-read errorsHyenaThePirate said:
) And when you think about it, the same situation applies to the 360 as with the "perceived" expensiveness of the PS3, people resort to staying with the 360 hence the multiple break downs for one customer refusing to switch or whatever.The difference is, the PS2 errors were no where near 30% let alone 50%. In fact, they were more in line of 5-10%, maybe less than that, which is bad, but nowhere near as bad as 30-50%.
The RRoD is an atrocity for all electronics everywhere. The standard failure rate for most general electronics is more or less 5% really. If a cell phone had a 50% chance of dropping your call or not, you'd better believe there's be complaints. If a drug had a 50% chance of being successful or the "side effect" of death, you'd better believe it'd be yanked off the shelves in days. If a bread knife had a 50% chance of it's serrated edges being smoothed with one cut, it'd...uh...be protested by bakers everywhere or something.
Hell, if you want me to be generous, just replace all the 50%s with 30% (the more accepted "failure rate" of the 360), all of that still applies to the examples. Dropped calls should only effect a minimal of, I dunno, 1% maybe. A drug should be below a .01% failure. A stainless steel bread knife should last for a llooooooonnnnnng time. Why doesn't this apply to consoles? (or to be specific, the 360?)
As I have said before, do not think for a second that I'm being a fanboy here. If my PS3 broke down 3 times on me, it's strike out for Sony, regardless of what games I want from them (though to be fair, I'd probably be a complete hypocrite and continue to send it in for repairs >_>; ). They cannot expect me, as their customer, to deal with their console breaking down on me every other month, and neither should any other console owner. Sadly, from the same GameInformer survey, only 3.8% of those 360 owners said that they would never buy a 360 again, compared to something like 12%(PS3) and 16%(Wii).......that saddens me greatly...
But now I'm ranting, bottom line, I don't give two invisible shits if Microsoft repairs it for free, it takes out of my game time and my money that could be used for more productive things. Like, you know, playing the games they want me to play.
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!? Hell, If my Xbox 360 broke more than 2 times, I wouldn't buy another one.Jumplion said:
My Wii hasn't broken down once. My 360 did. So the next time it breaks, I'm jumping ship to SONY(but if the repair is free, then the 360 stays). (Dispite the fact that their products sucks[Childhood moment])
Unfortunately thats a difficult thing to argue.Jumplion said:The launch PS2s did have problems, yes, but that's true for practically every single console, including the 360, PS3, and Wii (interestingly, they all had disc-read errorsHyenaThePirate said:
The difference is, the PS2 errors were no where near 30% let alone 50%. In fact, they were more in line of 5-10%, maybe less than that, which is bad, but nowhere near as bad as 30-50%.
The RRoD is an atrocity for all electronics everywhere. The standard failure rate for most general electronics is more or less 5% really. If a cell phone had a 50% chance of dropping your call or not, you'd better believe there's be complaints. If a drug had a 50% chance of being successful or the "side effect" of death, you'd better believe it'd be yanked off the shelves in days. If a bread knife had a 50% chance of it's serrated edges being smoothed with one cut, it'd...uh...be protested by bakers everywhere or something.
Hell, if you want me to be generous, just replace all the 50%s with 30% (the more accepted "failure rate" of the 360), all of that still applies to the examples. Dropped calls should only effect a minimal of, I dunno, 1% maybe. A drug should be below a .01% failure. A stainless steel bread knife should last for a llooooooonnnnnng time. Why doesn't this apply to consoles? (or to be specific, the 360?)
As I have said before, do not think for a second that I'm being a fanboy here. If my PS3 broke down 3 times on me, it's strike out for Sony, regardless of what games I want from them (though to be fair, I'd probably be a complete hypocrite and continue to send it in for repairs >_>; ). They cannot expect me, as their customer, to deal with their console breaking down on me every other month, and neither should any other console owner. Sadly, from the same GameInformer survey, only 3.8% of those 360 owners said that they would never buy a 360 again, compared to something like 12%(PS3) and 16%(Wii).......that saddens me greatly...
But now I'm ranting, bottom line, I don't give two invisible shits if Microsoft repairs it for free, it takes out of my game time and my money that could be used for more productive things. Like, you know, playing the games they want me to play.
Nobody realistically knows WHAT the failure rate of early PS2's were. Nobody bothered to really tally that. Any attempt to find such information is either obscured at best, suspect at worst. Just like the RROD issue.
I'm not going to Hurrah Microsoft over the RROD issue, but I'll be honest and say that I really feel that the whole issue has been so obscured by speculation and fan-boy flame war, as well as PR damage control AND attacks by competitor interests that I honestly don't know WHO to believe. I look on forums such as these and see people quoting numbers from 4% to 60% with very little data to support it other than poll data that seems to take small and inaccurate samples of a specific gaming community, with little empirical data and nothing resembling a control group. Then someone else comes along and provides a somewhat valid argument to dispute that poll (a good example is Game Informer's 54% number that is floating around now).
Then to further muddy up the waters, comes real life scenarios... You have one guy who "claims" to have had 11 xbox's fail on him. I'm not in the habit of calling anyone a liar, but I'm also not in the habit of believing every outlandish claim I've seen on the internet without fully understanding the scenarios. What was this guy's room like? His gaming habits? How well did he take care of his product? Did he even HAVE 11 Xbox's? What is the level of his integrity? Can we verify receipts? Even when you send it to Microsoft there is confirmation emails, etc, May I see this proof?
Can't show it to me? then color me skeptical, because the internets are known for their shenanigans, and I'm quick to pull the Shenanigans trigger on something if I have even the most remote notion of doubt.
That said (in typical long-winded fashion), things get worse when I consider my own personal exposure to the issue. Just about everyone I KNOW has an xbox 360. And just about NONE of them have ever RROD'd. Yes, my local group of gamers is not by any stretch of the imagination a sample group that demonstrates an accurate cross section of 360 owners, but it proves my point. I see the same claims made on every single one of these forums. So what number IS truly failing and how much of it is exagerated? I fear the only people who have an ACCURATE record of that is Microsoft, and barring some sort of class action, we will NEVER truly know those numbers, although I suspect they must be higher than 15%, simply by virtue that if it were lower, Microsoft would have long since released the data to prove it and silence opponents once and for all on the issue.
So all in all, I look at it this way. The Xbox is cheap enough, has been, with a large enough game library to make it worth a buy regardless of any reservations about the failure rate. If it does fail, it will be replaced within a week, free of charge and with Microsoft's firm sincere apology. The PS3 is also now cheap, so really, there isn't an excuse not to own BOTH systems within as many years.
I love video games, so really, excluding any system that has a history of blowing up and destroying my house, I will own them all, regardless of their faults.