Mid-range gaming computer specs

[ultrabiome]

I'm looking into purchasing a new gaming computer and am looking for advice.

I've done a little simulated computer building and found the following will probably suffice to play almost anything currently out there on max settings:

Processor ( Intel® Core? i5-3570K Processor (4x 3.40GHz/6MB L3 Cache) - Intel Core i5-3570K )
Processor will have liquid cooling.
Memory ( 8 GB [4 GB X2] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - G.Skill Ripjaws X )
Video Card ( AMD Radeon HD 7850 - 2GB - Single Card )
Motherboard ( Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H -- 1x PCI-E 3.0 x16, 4x USB 3.0 or ASUS P8Z77-V LX)
Power Supply ( 700 Watt - Standard )
Primary Hard Drive ( 2 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200rpm, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive )
Optical Drive ( 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - Black )
Sound Card ( ASUS Xonar DG )
Operating System ( Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - 64-bit )

I know that the differences from a gaming perspective between the i5 and i7 are miniscule. Are Intel processors that much better than AMD?
Any recommendations on the motherboard choices - I've heard both are good.
Is there any reason to get an NVidea card instead? (definitely in the 2GB range seems adequate)
Is that extra sound card worth it for someone most likely running stock speakers or through a TV?
How short term future proof is this setup?

FYI, I'm probably going to go through ibuypower.com for the build, as I probably can do it myself but would rather not make an expensive mistake.

 

[ultrabiome]

thanks for the help!

Due to the rapid rate that P.C.'s evolve, it's impossible to really future-proof your P.C. beyond a few years. But you should be able to play almost every game that comes out in the next 5 years, without a problem.
[sub]Notice I said "play" and not "run at highest settings"[/sub]

that's all i want. my last PC was a dell from 2004 that aside from a RAM and video card upgrade (to 512MB!) in 2010 i was able to play starcraft 2 and fallout 3 until it died recently, although at low settings.

budget is around ~$1100, although ~$100 or so of that will go into labor (prices from ibuypower.com, and they say that this setup should run all of their benchmark games at max, except BF3 which will run at ultra). desktop only, no peripherals. i could be convinced to throw in another ~$100 or two for the right reasons.

for the power supply, ibuypower said that card needs at least 650W, maybe the extra power is from the liquid cooling, not sure though.

for the case, no clue, just looking at price mainly (when a case says USB 3.0, i assume its for the front mounted ports...). the saved configs in my cart include a NZXT Guardian and a Chimera 4SE BTS - that one has a deal right now, but i'm not set on it.

i know that the video card is the main driver for graphics performance, i did notice that i got different performance values even between the different 2 GB cards, but the extra price in jumping to 3 GB and 4 GB cards seems steep (i know, its the way these things go). any recommendations for a better card that won't break my bank?

thanks again for the help!

 

[ultrabiome]

In terms of graphics card, you'd only need more than 1 GB if you're gaming at max settings in 1080p or at high settings in a higher resolution (like 2500x1600).

Before I could make a recommendation, I'd need to know roughly what you're spending on what. Just estimates to the nearest $10/20 would be fine. Then, I could give you a good choice for the graphics card. EDIT: I'll also need your monitor resolution.

I can't help you on the case, though. You're looking at stuff that's quite flash, and I only know about more modest, cheaper cases. You'd have to ask someone else there....

i plan on playing on a small monitor, probably my old 17" Dell CRT to begin and then getting a small 20-22" flatscreen monitor with 1080p resolution. (much cheaper to get through costco or somewhere local than the extra shipping). or i'll hook it up to my HD TV. which tells me that the card i have should be ok based on what you said above.

no worries on the case, everything on that website is flashy and i doubt i'll have any issues with it.

 

[ultrabiome]

$270 for the AMD Radeon HD 7850 - 2GB card from ibuypower, which is very similar to buying from Newegg.

 

[ultrabiome]

$270 for the AMD Radeon HD 7850 - 2GB card from ibuypower, which is very similar to buying from Newegg.

Well, seeing as you need to buy a card from that site, that looks fine. I can't find a better card for cheaper.

thanks for the sanity check. i'll look into the motherboard choices, but even from tom's hardware it doesn't seem like a big difference, at least from a gaming perspective and relative to where i was, i wouldn't be able to tell anyway.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Who the fuck needs a 2 terabyte HDD?

 

[triggahappyhaza]

Try to get a Gigabyte motherboard they seem to be best from my experience. Out of the hundreds I have used and built personally only 3 in the last 4 years have had problems out of the factory.

 

[madster11]

Go for a decent air heatsink and save the money from the water cooling.
Use it to ensure the power supply ISN'T 'standard'. Grab a nice Corsair one.
This is essential. Never cheap out on the PSU.

Next, remove the soundcard (the on-board audio is good enough, and if you're using the PC for audio you should grab a proper external DAC anyway) and use the money saved from that on getting a 7870.
Oh, almost forgot: Get a card with aftermarket cooling. Never use the ones with the standard AMD single fan approach. Go for a good MSI/Sapphire/whatever one with their own cooling on it. It'll be quieter and run cooler.

Windows 7 Professional instead of HP is a stupid idea - and paying for it is an even stupider one.
I will GIVE you a windows 7 home premium CD key if you really want it (a genuine one from one of my old laptops). Just torrent or borrow the disc. This will save, what, $100?


Finally, please build it yourself.
I'm not even kidding, it's incredibly easy to build a PC.
Do you have a phillips head screwdriver?
Can you use it?
Do you have a torch to help you read small writing?
If you have those things, you can build the PC. All you do is do up like 10 screws and plug a bunch of wires into very obvious spots that flat tell you where to plug. The hardest part is putting the cooler on the CPU, and providing you read the instructions it's very easy.

Overall, you should be able to save a good couple hundred bucks off that build and still end up with it being better.

Don't worry about water cooling with the Sandy/Ivybridge CPUs. I have my 2500k at 4.5ghz on air cooling with the fan speed set to '1' pretty much at all times and temps generally hover around 40 degrees in game.

Do explain how a 7850 is "fairly weak" compared to an i5.

[sub]This should be good[/sub]

I have a 2500k and a 6870.

Considering i've had my CPU up to 5.2ghz and run it at 4.5ghz at all other times, my 6870 is very easily the bottleneck. The same situation will occur with OPs build.
While my GPU is maxxing out, my i5 is sitting there bored out of it's bloody mind. And that's not even an ivy.

A GTX680 is a bottleneck for an overclocked i5. A 7850 sure as shit will be.

 

[madster11]

Pics, or it didn't happen.

I believe him.

My 6870 overclocks like a beast, too. And the temps are under control at only 80 degrees when the voltage is maxxed.

Of course, you can't actually play any games like that. The fans on my card run at 100%, and due the sound levels of a damn 747 taking off in the corner of my room you can't hear any sound, and all that dust and debris flying through the air to get sucked into the fans at 200mph can hurt.

 

[madster11]

Pics, or it didn't happen.

I believe him.

My 6870 overclocks like a beast, too. And the temps are under control at only 80 degrees when the voltage is maxxed.

Of course, you can't actually play any games like that. The fans on my card run at 100%, and due the sound levels of a damn 747 taking off in the corner of my room you can't hear any sound, and all that dust and debris flying through the air to get sucked into the fans at 200mph can hurt.

Yeah. I'd also be worried about how long you could run a card like that for....

Well if the temps are under 90 degrees, almost any modern card would survive at least a year or 2. Personally, i'd be more worried about the fan failing - if it's constantly at 70-100% fan speed all the time, the bearings would wear out fairly fast and eventually it just wouldn't be as efficient, so temps would slowly creep up over the months.

Remember that one persons acceptable settings might not be the same as mine or yours. For example, i have a program that sets an alarm off if my GPU goes above 70 degrees or my CPU goes above 60 degrees, and i strive to keep the fan speeds as low as possible to achieve not having the alarm go off.

My 6870 generally runs at 1.27v with the highest stable clocks at that voltage, and very rarely does it hit 70 degrees, but this is because i have a sapphire dual fan thing and because i don't push my voltages to 1.28/1.29v.

I still don't see why he doesn't believe the 7850 to be the bottleneck for an i5.
Even a 6990 running with the highest overclock it can at an ambient temp of -30 degrees would bottleneck my i5 if i push it, let alone a 3570k.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

You won't need THAT much juice for such a system, my powerhog of a first gen i7 and a GTX 480 consumes 420 watts at the wall with 90% efficiency when I stress test CPU and GPU at the same time. But yeah get a Corsair/SeaSonic in the 420-650 watt range.

Also I diesagree with not getting the Soundcard, huge difference and a reciever in the same catagory with regards to quality and software will set you back three times as much as your Xonar DG. But that requires you having some good headphones to match it.

Otherwise pretty good, I would get a "small"(120/128 GB) SSD at some point if I were you, once you go SSD you never go back, Samsung 830, Crucial m4, and Plextor M3 pro are the ones I would recommend. As the OS/application disk of course, not storage.

 

[Signa]

Hell, OP, I'd say that's more than mid-range. That's like the peak-curve of price and performance. Go higher than that, and you will start seeing diminishing returns.

You did ask about AMD vs Intel, and I just wanted to say according to the charts I've read, AMD and Intel perform pretty close while running games. Some games even run slightly better on an AMD than Intel. However, if you run anything that is processor intensive, like encoding a video, or decompressing a rar file, Intel starts to drastically outshine AMD. It gets worse now, because the i5 processor is hitting a perfect power/price ratio, which is something AMD can't offer. In the past, it didn't make a lot of sense to go Intel unless you knew you were going to be encoding videos or some such. You could get a AMD for nearly half the price but still have the same performance in games.

 

[madster11]

Figured i'd quickly back Matt up in terms of the whole crysis 2 deal. IIRC, 6870s and 7850s are fairly similar, with the 7850 being like 10FPS quicker on average or so?
This is with my normal overclock, meaning sub-65 degrees and around 40FPS:

You won't need THAT much juice for such a system, my powerhog of a first gen i7 and a GTX 480 consumes 420 watts at the wall with 90% efficiency when I stress test CPU and GPU at the same time. But yeah get a Corsair/SeaSonic in the 420-650 watt range.

Also I diesagree with not getting the Soundcard, huge difference and a reciever in the same catagory with regards to quality and software will set you back three times as much as your Xonar DG. But that requires you having some good headphones to match it.

Otherwise pretty good, I would get a "small"(120/128 GB) SSD at some point if I were you, once you go SSD you never go back, Samsung 830, Crucial m4, and Plextor M3 pro are the ones I would recommend. As the OS/application disk of course, not storage.

Always good to have a little headroom, but i agree with the PSU. Maybe a HX/TX-650 or something, which gives him headroom and is fairly cheap.

The soundcard does make a huge difference, but will the difference be big enough for OP to actually care? Because if he's just running basic $20 speakers or through a TV or something, it doesn't matter. Better yet, he might have the same setup i do - HDMI to a TV which does the video and sound, making the soundcard pointless when it's all done by the 78x0.

Agree completely with the SSD, of course. Forgot to say so in my post, but having an SSD as the OS drive makes such a huge difference it's insane.
I run a 60gb for my OS drive at the moment, and i will never buy another HDD in my life. From now on, it's SSD or nothing.

 

[madster11]

Double post

 

[Boris Goodenough]

The soundcard does make a huge difference, but will the difference be big enough for OP to actually care? Because if he's just running basic $20 speakers or through a TV or something, it doesn't matter. Better yet, he might have the same setup i do - HDMI to a TV which does the video and sound, making the soundcard pointless when it's all done by the 78x0.

Fair does.

 

[Wolfram23]

OP: That's a really good PC. Better than "mid range" IMO. 7850s are very nice, and will easily play any game at 1080p that is out right now and for the forseeable future at max or near max settings. A small OC will help a bunch but don't do that without learning how first or things can go bad. However, my 5850s for example are running at 870 core 1200 memory, up from stock 700/1000. For the last 2 years, no problems.

That said, about the PSU, definitely don't need 750W. I think it's way better to buy a smaller one like a 550W but that is 80 PLUS PLATINUM rated or at least BRONZE rated. It will probably cost as much as the 750W PSU but it will be way more efficient and, often, can actually go above it's rated wattage no problem. For example, this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371055

"Liquid cooling" on the CPU I assume means a Corsair H80 or something like that. Honestly, for the cost, you might as well go air cooling. The H100 is ok, otherwise go air cooling. There's a lot of nice air coolers right now, from the mighty Archon, the Thermalright Silver Arrow, Zalman CNPS12X, Phanteks PH-TC14PE, to a mediocre but extremely cost effective CoolerMaster 212 Evolution.

As for HDD, I think 1 or 2 TB is a good idea, but you might want to consider going RAID 0 for more speed. Get 2 1TB drives and it will double the read/write speed. Granted, if 1 drive fails you lose everything, but that's not really any different than if you only had 1 drive to begin with.

Also, if you can fit it in the budget, an 80gb to 120gb SSD makes a PC so much faster it's really awesome. Maybe wait for some good deals and snatch one up. Highly recommended!

As for a sound card. 95% of all "PC Speakers" will not benefit from one. If you are going to run your sound card to an amplifier with decent bookshelf speakers, then it might be worthwhile. Alternatively, a good headset ($200+) can greatly benefit from a sound card. I've got Sennheiser PC 350 headset with an AuzenTech Bravura 7.1 sound card. On my 5.1 PC speakers there's maybe a little more clarity but nothing spectacular. However, with the headset it's no question, although the Senn's are 150ohms so it needs a good opamp that no integrated sound will have. I can also playback 192khz/24bit audio over my headphones (absolutely highest quality lossless format) which most people can't. Limited to 96khz/24bit over speakers though. Bear in mind that if you plan to run your audio from a digital source, IE: HDMI, then a soundcard will do nothing. The point of a sound card is it will have a really good DAC (digital-analog converter) and amps. If running HDMI audio (or optical), then the DAC is at the other end of the line.

And finally, @trollpwner and @matthew94
You guys gotta stop your bitching at eachother. It's not helping anybody and it happens in every single PC related thread. Additionally, all you're throwing at eachother is opinion and conjecture (ok, there's a couple fact sources). How about if you want to argue next time, bring some data? Bring some graphs showing how cards OC, what sort of performance gain there is. Maybe link to threads about people blowing their cards up. Because it's all possible - any idiot can crank their clocks and voltage up and fry their cards, but there is definitely a safe way to do it that can still get years and years out of the hardware.

 

[ultrabiome]

Who the fuck needs a 2 terabyte HDD?

free upgrade from 1 TB. figured it couldn't hurt .

 

[DrOswald]

I'm looking into purchasing a new gaming computer and am looking for advice.

I've done a little simulated computer building and found the following will probably suffice to play almost anything currently out there on max settings:

Processor ( Intel® Core? i5-3570K Processor (4x 3.40GHz/6MB L3 Cache) - Intel Core i5-3570K )
Processor will have liquid cooling.
Memory ( 8 GB [4 GB X2] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - G.Skill Ripjaws X )
Video Card ( AMD Radeon HD 7850 - 2GB - Single Card )
Motherboard ( Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H -- 1x PCI-E 3.0 x16, 4x USB 3.0 or ASUS P8Z77-V LX)
Power Supply ( 700 Watt - Standard )
Primary Hard Drive ( 2 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200rpm, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive )
Optical Drive ( 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - Black )
Sound Card ( ASUS Xonar DG )
Operating System ( Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - 64-bit )

I know that the differences from a gaming perspective between the i5 and i7 are miniscule. Are Intel processors that much better than AMD?
Any recommendations on the motherboard choices - I've heard both are good.
Is there any reason to get an NVidea card instead? (definitely in the 2GB range seems adequate)
Is that extra sound card worth it for someone most likely running stock speakers or through a TV?
How short term future proof is this setup?

FYI, I'm probably going to go through ibuypower.com for the build, as I probably can do it myself but would rather not make an expensive mistake.

A pretty good build, all in all.

First of all, my credentials. I have worked as an IT guy for the last 4 years at a software company, so I have a lot of experience building and maintaining computers. I don't make enough money to experiment on new parts at home, so my knowledge is mostly limited to what I do at work and when I design PC's for my friends, family or myself. I don't spend hours reading up on the latest parts and what everyone thinks of them. All my information comes from first hand experience.

Now, I notice you didn't list a case. For the love of all that is holy, make sure you get a good case. Nothing sucks more than having a good computer in a bad case. You are going to spend $1000 on this thing, the extra $25 it takes to go from a bad case to a good case is worth it. Quiet, sturdy, good placement of fans and ports. That is what you are looking for.

AMD processors are about as good as Intel processors in my experience. They each have their advantages. I personally prefer AMD for gaming and Intel for general use. AMD processors tend to be a little more powerful for the dollar you spend, but Intel processors are more reliable and if you want to go whole hog they definitely have more powerful parts available. But the processor you have chosen is a good one and will server your needs fantastically.

Liquid cooling really isn't necessary unless you intend to overclock.

I really like ASUS motherboards, they are very reliable and rarely fail. I have never worked with Gigabyte parts.

The power supply you have chosen looks good, but check if you can the length of the cables. I have seen power supplies have cables that are just a little too short when you have to stretch them over a large video card, and that sucks. Also, I wouldn't go any lower on the wattage, I saw a suggestion to go 550, but I have seen major stability issues come with a power supply that wasn't good enough. Better to spend the extra $20 and have a part that works than to toe the line and get burned.

A 2TB drive is very large, but you will want a large external drive to back everything up. Since you have USB 3.0 you don't need such a large internal drive, 1TB internal and a 1-3 TB external (which you will want anyway for back up purposes) will be fine. However, the 2TB internal drive is not that much extra so if you really want it it is worth the price. I have noticed that the larger the drive the slower the part reads as it ages. I am not sure what causes this but I have seen it consistently. Maybe it has to do with fragmentation?

I prefer Corsair memory to G. Skill memory. I have had several G. Skill sticks fail on me, but that may have been just bad luck.

I would not go with a radion card. I have used 3 radion card personally in the past and everyone of them has had significant problems gaming (crashing, frame rate, texture problems, etc.) and each were the first part to fail in the rig they belonged to. On the other hand, I have never had any significant problems with an Nvidia card. The Nvidia card I put in a gaming rig 5 years ago is still running strong, no problems at all even as the part has outlived it's usefulness. If you plan for the part to last more than a year don't go radion. I seriously recommend switching to an Nvidia card and never looking back.

I notice you didn't list monitors, a mouse or a keyboard. Do not skimp on these parts, a good monitor makes as much a difference in how good your games look as your video card, maybe more on certain levels, and will likely last you through 2 or more video cards. I would also spring for a second monitor, even if it is a cheap and small monitor. You have no idea the convenience of dual monitors until you go there.

Good input devices will really improve the gaming experience, it is worth having good parts. But if you can't afford everything yet, this is the place to wait. You likely already have a passable mouse and keyboard, but don't wait forever. It really does make a difference.

If you own a PS3 and a usb cable you don't need to get a controller for your PC, there are free drivers out there that make your PS3 controller work great on a PC. I can't recommend a good dedicated controller for the PC because I always use my PS3 controller.

Putting together your own computer is not difficult, will save you money, and as long as you are cautions you will be fine. In fact, the ability to take apart and rebuild a computer is very valuable and I really recommend learning how. We learn to do by doing, and if you are going to be designing your own PC's then you should really have this skill.

Also, get a decent headset.

 

[ultrabiome]

Well if the temps are under 90 degrees, almost any modern card would survive at least a year or 2. Personally, i'd be more worried about the fan failing - if it's constantly at 70-100% fan speed all the time, the bearings would wear out fairly fast and eventually it just wouldn't be as efficient, so temps would slowly creep up over the months.

this is exactly why i'm warying of OCing, as i'm looking for this purchase to last upwards of 4-5 years or better. i might invest in a newer card at some point, but i'd rather have a stable reliable machine for longer than OC it for a few more fps and have it die in 2 years.

 

[the doom cannon]

Intel processors are the best hands down for gaming. However, the multiple cores that AMD offers can outperform Intel's processors if you are doing heavy multitasking. So if you aren't a video/graphic editing fanatic or a huge multitasker and only intend to game, then Intel is your best bet. I will echo that the 7850 is a beast. Also, an SSD is well worth it if you can fit it in your budget.