Million Dollar Actor, Five Dollar Writer
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
I'm someone who can usually derive humor from poor writing, so it's not especially grating to me. I usually don't mind poor writing in gaming as long as the gameplay is good enough, and if it's exceptionally poor I just make MST3K-variety jokes as I play it.
Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 holds a place in my heart for just how poor everything is. From the incredibly stiff movements in cutscenes to some of the ridiculous dialogue/delivery, that game is perfect for riffing (if you're willing to even sit through the first half-hour that is).
Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 holds a place in my heart for just how poor everything is. From the incredibly stiff movements in cutscenes to some of the ridiculous dialogue/delivery, that game is perfect for riffing (if you're willing to even sit through the first half-hour that is).
Have to say Oblivion had its moments of terra-awful writing. For some odd reason though, the best parts of the two Bethesda titles I played (Oblivion, Fallout 3) were also the darkest and most morbid. Case in point: the Dark Brotherhood. There's more quality writing (and coding) in that guild than in most of the rest of the game. Runner up for decent writing would be the Arena- simple, but good. Not to mention bloody. And Fallout? The original titles were never actually that dark.
I want to go on record as saying Super Mario Brothers on the NES had the worst writing ever! "Oh thank you Mario, but your princess is in another castle!" Dammit, if you morons know she is in another castle, tell me which one and let's skip this crap! Why must I waste time saving lookalikes instead of the real thing? Yeah, I went old school.
Borderlands had promise, and the beginning cuts were alright with a good dose of humor. As the game progressed, you saw the cuts start to suffer from a heavy case of under-writing. The humor pretty much disappeared and just showed you someone you had to shoot. What happened to the funny one-liners under the still of the boss?
It almost seems like in some games, so much of the budget is focused on the graphics and gameplay elements that when it comes time for the story, they were down to a shoestring budget. I'd like to think that most games start as a storyboard idea that follows a plot, but you've really got to wonder in some of the larger budget games. The simple DLCs or online flash games have had better stories than I've seen in major releases. It has been a dying art, fueled now by dispensing barely enough plot to give the story a ghost of a sense of comprehension as to why you are doing what you are.
And for the record, I like to watch Unskippable for the fact it makes good humor of the horrible cutscenes in games, which isn't to say that the whole game is plagued by them.
Borderlands had promise, and the beginning cuts were alright with a good dose of humor. As the game progressed, you saw the cuts start to suffer from a heavy case of under-writing. The humor pretty much disappeared and just showed you someone you had to shoot. What happened to the funny one-liners under the still of the boss?
It almost seems like in some games, so much of the budget is focused on the graphics and gameplay elements that when it comes time for the story, they were down to a shoestring budget. I'd like to think that most games start as a storyboard idea that follows a plot, but you've really got to wonder in some of the larger budget games. The simple DLCs or online flash games have had better stories than I've seen in major releases. It has been a dying art, fueled now by dispensing barely enough plot to give the story a ghost of a sense of comprehension as to why you are doing what you are.
And for the record, I like to watch Unskippable for the fact it makes good humor of the horrible cutscenes in games, which isn't to say that the whole game is plagued by them.
You'd be wrong. I just particularly like this one show.commasplice said:
A lot.
I don't watch anything else. Much like the only American TV show I watch is House M.D.
Of course it's possible. There are many talented, dedicated games writers out there that are frustrated beyond belief by the culture within the industry that ultimately sees plot as the final polish.Rack said:
If games are going to have plots at all, they need writers who are allowed to have creative input involved from the very beginning to the very end of development. Otherwise, we end up with games like Assassin's Creed or Prototype: games that had potential, but that had, from day one, been meant only to be designed around its gameplay. They tacked a flimsy plot onto the end of it. Anyone can see that.
The industry itself needs to start respecting writers if the problem of bad writing is going to be fixed, and that doesn't just mean investing more money. It means hiring writers to have input on plot, not just to be the designated scribes. It means designers understanding that writers know much more about this stuff than they do, and standing aside to let them do the job they were hired for. If you design a game around a plot from day one, you get a level of synergy like Bioshock or Portal that is way, WAY more rewarding for the player, and that means the game can show off some brilliant writing, too.
Much as this may earn scorn from the rest of the community, I just got into Warcraft 3 (and back into World of Warcraft), and I have to say this game series has to have the worst writing I've ever seen. Due to being unemployed for a good long while, I don't have the money to go out and buy video games when they release (the Escapist has been my window into these games), so I can't comment on them (and the games I do play I like, for the most part).
Warcraft 3's plot just seemed to railroad all of the characters to their eventual ends. I don't know, maybe I'm just being unnecessarily mean, but whenever I load up these games, it's not the story that I'm playing for.
Warcraft 3's plot just seemed to railroad all of the characters to their eventual ends. I don't know, maybe I'm just being unnecessarily mean, but whenever I load up these games, it's not the story that I'm playing for.
I was never happy with Oblivion's writing. It wasn't exactly horrible, and maybe the problem could have been solved with more (and better) voice actors, better consistency, and better (less uncanny) faces. I just got tired of hearing people say the same thing 400 times before they would spit out the plot-relevant rumor that I needed to do a quest.
Come to think of it , the only really horrible writing I can think of at the moment is from "Batman and Robin," a movie with some pretty well-known actors (George Clooney as Batman and the Governator as Mr. Freeze) that has a script consisting almost entirely of bad one-liners.
Come to think of it , the only really horrible writing I can think of at the moment is from "Batman and Robin," a movie with some pretty well-known actors (George Clooney as Batman and the Governator as Mr. Freeze) that has a script consisting almost entirely of bad one-liners.
It kinda makes you wonder what the point of having a paladin's creed is if its paragons are itching to break everything it stands for at their first opportunity. I know it's Blizzard's attempt at making it darker and edgier by making paladins succumb to the 'well-intentioned extremist' trope, but they just come off as lawful stupid.Frylock72 said:
Mirrors Edge. The gameplay was interesting and bold but frustrating and unfinished, however I could look past it if I didn't detest the characters and the story.
It feels like it was written by a 12 year old Green Day fan whose biggest hates are George Bush (because of y'know war and he's STOOPID) and his parents (who home him, clothe him....) I can't actually see what's wrong with the enemies in the game. I think Yahtzee hammered it best when he said "they're evil because they have a lot of money and wear suits."
Such lazy writing... "there's no news anymore, only advertising" OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH! I actively did not enjoy playing that game largely because of the story-line.
It feels like it was written by a 12 year old Green Day fan whose biggest hates are George Bush (because of y'know war and he's STOOPID) and his parents (who home him, clothe him....) I can't actually see what's wrong with the enemies in the game. I think Yahtzee hammered it best when he said "they're evil because they have a lot of money and wear suits."
Such lazy writing... "there's no news anymore, only advertising" OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH! I actively did not enjoy playing that game largely because of the story-line.
Heh, you're not alone. The first KoTOR had *one* proper plot twist, the rest was pretty generic. The second one has characters whose background I actually wanted to learn. Atton Rand is still one of my all-time favourite characters, despite...well you know.nightwolf667 said:
Fahrenheit's plot made me angry because they were sooo close...
The same studio made a forgotten gem called Omikron, which also had a lot of personality and atmosphere. Too bad they decided to throw in 3 games worth of plot-elements:
[spoiler Solving a murder mystery in a dystopian scifi-dimension in the body of another person isn't enough motivation - let's throw in ancient prophesies and demons from Hell! /spoiler]
Not sure I got the spoiler tags right but who cares. It's not like anyone would play the game anyway
Agreed.Izerous said:
That made me laugh just reading it.museli said:
Tales of Symphonia. I don't understand why that game came so highly recommended; every single cutscene made me cringe. It wasn't even the type of bad writing which entertains because it's hammy and unintentionally funny, it was the breed of bad that was even worse than that. And you had to watch ten minutes of cutscenes before each boss, die, and then watch them all over again.
Yeah, Atton is really amazing, in fact, pretty much all the characters in KoTOR II are and they are made better by the fact that you can turn them into Jedi (light side or dark as is your preference). That was really awesome in it's own right. For me, Kreia is the best of the bunch. She's funny, she chews me out whether I'm light side or dark side and you get some of the most amusing dialogue responses. (Like if you're male and Visas Marr has joined your party, Kreia tells you not to mate with her because it will cause... "complications" and you can respond with something like "I don't plan on charging up her loading ramp!")Unia said:
For all that the game is unfinished, I find myself caring about it, it's quest, and it's characters more. At least the influence system in KoTOR II made sense, as opposed to the one in *cough* Dragon Age. In KoTOR II I didn't feel like I always had to lick my character's behinds to get them to like me or that where I got or lost influence felt arbitrary, I could be snarky at them and they appreciated it more. Plus, none of them were neurotic. In comparison, with Dragon Age's characters I felt like I was walking on broken glass, like there was only one dialogue choice that was the right answer. While I do like realistic (not realism) portrayals of characters as people, I feel like Bioware's are caricatures next the ones Obisidian gives us.
Don't get me wrong Bioware fans, many of their characters are amusing. (Like Wrex and Garrus, and even Sten) But I always get the feeling that I've seen them before and the dialogue options I get to talk with them are the same, standard ones with nary a wit of cleverness or humor between them. If I'm going to make jokes in a Bioware game that has an influence system, it will always come out as an insult and I will lose points. In KoTOR II, I could joke with Atton or Mira (though she was more testy about the Mandalorians), or HK-47, or Kreia, or even Canderous all I wanted and I'd be fine. Some had better repartee than others but I always enjoyed the conversation for the sake of the conversation. I couldn't wait to get to new planets to see what new dialogue options opened up next.
Also, I didn't have to take any light side hits for being a smart ass (but not an asshole) to the Jedi Masters. Telling off Master Vrook is still the highlight of Dantooine.
Actually, getting to be a light side Jedi but not being forced to be a saint is one of the highlights of KoTOR II for me. On the same hand, getting to be dark side and not being forced to be a complete monster. Much as I love Revan, the Exile has more personality and is oh, so much wittier.
But I suppose that's the difference between good writing and bad, isn't?
That's exactly the point I was pondering, sure you can get good writing in a game if the writer is involved from the very beginning and is given free reign to dictate the course of the game. But is it possible to get good writing while sticking to the mantra of "gameplay first"?Meemaimoh said:
