Miracles from Heaven - Heaven is Totally for Real, Too
- Thread starter Marter
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Please don't tell me that actually a thing that is occurring? And that's actually the plot? PLEASE?Marter said:
That's depressing. And the Dick Dynasty folks are heavily involved. Shocker. Glad it's releasing on April Fool's Day. Monetizing people's faith and turning it into a blunt instrument to knock down strawmen is gross as hell.Marter said:It's 100% a thing coming out on April 1st.monkeymangler said:Please don't tell me that actually a thing that is occurring? And that's actually the plot? PLEASE?
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That's fair. It's definitely not an issue with all Christians so much as it is a particular brand of evangelical Christian. The kind of people who genuinely believe God is a wrathful God, and who enjoy the idea of atheists/other religions/unbelievers in general 'getting what they deserve.'lacktheknack said:
Basically, the kind of Christian that the Left Behind books were made for. That entire series is just one long, mean-spirited victory lap where God gives every kind of person the authors dislike 'what they deserve.' In the last book where Jesus comes back there's actually a scene where he walks knee-deep through the blood of his enemies (who had just previously been violently ripped to pieces by the power of his voice alone), and this is presented like a good, triumphant moment. It happens all over the world too. Literally every person with the mark of the beast is killed by Jesus, simultaneously in a fairly gory way.
I know they actually made one more book set in the 1000 year Kingdom too. Somehow, for some reason, a group of the Christians who survived the tribulation decide they don't want to follow Jesus and the revived King David that now rule Earth. So they not only rebel, but they somehow form an army even bigger than the one Jesus slaughtered at armageddon (which would be several million people strong), and decide to attack New Jerusalem with it. Jesus just kind of walks outside and casually burns them all to ash with his voice.
The Left Behind series is actually really fascinating for just how horrible it is. Not just the overall message, but the writing itself. It's a case-study in hack writing.
A friend who is a pastor said that the original Bible was written by people that God possessed and wrote with His divine hand. That opens a whole new set of creepy factors though. Plus the infinite amount of times the book has been translated.Worgen said:
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Did he also do that for all the translations? Since I think the english translation is like 2 languages removed from the original. Plus, I would think god would want a layer of separation since some of it makes him? look like a dick.monkeymangler said:
Why is making a film that a Christians will enjoy any different from making a film that environmentalist will enjoy.scw55 said:
When I first heard that a sequel to God's Not Dead was coming out on April 1st I thought it was a joke. The first was so masturbatory I felt like I needed some tissues on hand when it was playing to clean the mess. This one looks even dumber, which I did not think was possible. "First we took on a teacher. Now, we take on the ENTIRE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THE COURTS. FUCKING PRAISE IT".Marter said:It's 100% a thing coming out on April 1st.monkeymangler said:Please don't tell me that actually a thing that is occurring? And that's actually the plot? PLEASE?
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In all seriousness, the big problem with these films is that they miss the entire point of Christianity. The religion is supposed to be about loving your neighbors and such, yet the movies paint every non-believer in the worst lights possible. It's completely alienating to anyone not of the faith and makes Christians look really naive and xenophobic. By trying to make these rallying movies about how right they are in an evil world that is supposedly turning against them, they are only making that situation more prevalent by enforcing the stereotypes that people not of the faith are turned off by. I miss the days of the old Biblical epics that used scripture to show a compelling story, not just preach to the choir about how perfect Christians are and how horrible everyone else is.
There's nothing wrong with having movies for Christians who already believe in God. My problem with these movies as a Christian is it lacks any subtlety, depth, and introspection. As others have said everyone in these films who are believers are shined down with being great people who are always subjected because apparently for some reason many people believe Christians are being persecuted. Instead it's more about how in an increasing skeptical world, with many Christians being way too forceful about preaching are causing a rift.
Sounds like this movie could've been interesting if with the girl's condition caused the family to have huge doubts about their faith. Then the incident happens where it looks grim and things are at their worst. Insert drama about how God would never let this happen, then by the lowest of odds she makes it and their prayers are answered. Cheesy for sure, but at least it would've gone better.
In this day it would be more interesting to have different views of Christians. You can have the older beliefs which while some may be okay there are the ones that are against LGBT issues and other stuff that actively harms other people. You could have a person who starts questioning their beliefs because perhaps some of the beliefs they had seem bad as they go into the world. They start questioning those beliefs and God as a whole. Perhaps over time they come to see God and the bible in a different light that still has a bit of the Christian belief in it, but their views on certain aspects has changed. You can even have multiple perspectives which even some drop their beliefs completely, because that's what happens in real life. The problem is it requires subtlety and many people can't do that, especially people making these kinds of movies.
Sounds like this movie could've been interesting if with the girl's condition caused the family to have huge doubts about their faith. Then the incident happens where it looks grim and things are at their worst. Insert drama about how God would never let this happen, then by the lowest of odds she makes it and their prayers are answered. Cheesy for sure, but at least it would've gone better.
In this day it would be more interesting to have different views of Christians. You can have the older beliefs which while some may be okay there are the ones that are against LGBT issues and other stuff that actively harms other people. You could have a person who starts questioning their beliefs because perhaps some of the beliefs they had seem bad as they go into the world. They start questioning those beliefs and God as a whole. Perhaps over time they come to see God and the bible in a different light that still has a bit of the Christian belief in it, but their views on certain aspects has changed. You can even have multiple perspectives which even some drop their beliefs completely, because that's what happens in real life. The problem is it requires subtlety and many people can't do that, especially people making these kinds of movies.
What about the Prince of Egypt? That's one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen about Moses. To be fair though, for all it's obvious posturing it's still hard to beat the sheer scope of The Ten Commandments.lacktheknack said:
Because every Christian has a different idea of what constitutes being a "true Christian".scw55 said:
Whenever a Christian does something bad, or claims the Bible instructs us to do something most of us view as horrible (which is what most of the Bible actually does, especially the Old Testament), other Christians who disagree claim that person isn't a "True Christian". It's the classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
This is why no film, no matter how good, will ever truly portray what it is to be a Christian. Especially when so many just sort of skip over the more troubling and atrocious parts of the Bible's commands.
That may be your interpretation of what Christianity stands for, but many, many, MANY other Christians will disagree.Comic Sans said:
The fact that people like Fred Phelps exist is testament to your view of Christianity's true meaning not being the only one. There are plenty of others who believe to be a True Christian one must revile homosexuals, atheists, and anyone not beholden to the Christian Bible and Jesus.
I am not an expert on christianity, but wasn't the whole point of the seperation of the evangelical church from the catholic church, that they disagreed on the catholic portrayal of god as a wrathful God that needs to be calmed by buying indulgences?rcs619 said:
It's at least what I used to learn when I was a member of the evangelical church.
Doing a quick search on wikipedia, it might just be something lost in translation? Apparently what I mean with evangelical church is named the Lutheranism in english.
I think the phrase the best sums up this type of thing would be "faith porn", in the same vein as "destruction porn" or "military porn".MarsAtlas said:
Because Christians believe in a loving Omnipotent being. An environmentalist thinks that you should care for the environment.Albino Boo said:
The former is faith, the latter is an opinion.
Probably wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't so much stuff that abuses or predates on people's Christian beliefs already.
Proselytizing implies brain-washing. That is absolutely non-Christian. The point of becoming a Christian is choosing to follow Jesus, not have the choice made for you, or tricked into choosing it. Evangelism is sharing the story of Jesus with people and happily answering any quests they may have. It is being welcoming and loving. It is not forced on anyone. If it is forced on anyone, then the person is doing a very bad thing.MarsAtlas said:
I do not understand what you mean by "proselytizing the poor". People have varying amounts of money regardless of what their faith is.
Jesus chased traders out of The Temple in Jerusalem with a whip. All that the Bible addresses with money is be responsible with the money you have.
I feel like the challenging parts of The Bible are rarely addressed.Vigormortis said:
If you have the Bible App, you get "verses of the day", which are effectively daily "motivational quotes" from The Bible. It's lovely, but it is always going to miss more challenging aspects of the Bible. I mean, you will never get a verse of the day about how a many describe in depth how sexy his mistress it (Song of Songs).
Challenging parts from the Bible often have context missing. The context of the passage. The context of what happened before. The context of the culture. The context of the time period.
Quite a bit of the Old Testament laws get made obsolete by The New Testament. Or certain "rules" get dampened. The New Testament states that the most important thing to do is 'Love God with all your heart, above all things'. Secondly is 'Love every person as you would love yourself'. Jesus' sacrifice makes the need to do "Sin Offerings" unneeded.
Other things, I have no idea. I will be honest and not BS you an answer. Perhaps I will understand in the future.
But I believe, that people gain faith in God and His Son through personal experience and not through academic studying of the text. Without belief, the words will not mean anything to you, other than a narrative or motivational quote.
scw55 said:
You are missing the key point what's the difference between making a film one group enjoys to another making a film another groupenjoys. Why is making film that Christians enjoy watching wrong.