MLP Season 4 thoughts.

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madwarper

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Sniper Team 4 said:
the naysayers (sorry, I couldn't help it)
I'm confused. Were you trying to make a pun? Because, the naysayer is the correct spelling of the word.
If you were trying to reference the high-pitched sound a horse makes, then it should have been neighsayers.

OT: I enjoyed the season overall. I'm glad it was a full season, unlike the half-season from season 3. Though, the only complaint I can think of is that there were too many Rarity episodes.
 

Buzz Killington_v1legacy

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Commander_PonyShep said:
But then the finale comes, and the only thing people are talking about is an overpowered Twilight Sparkle going all Goku on Tirek.
Okay, I thought I could go on ignoring it, but I can't hold this in any more:

Would you please for the love of the sweet zombie Jesus read a book or two? I promise, it'll be good for you. If nothing else, it will expand your reference pool beyond My Little Pony, Dragonball Z, and Sonic.
 

Shadowstar38

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Buzz Killington said:
Commander_PonyShep said:
But then the finale comes, and the only thing people are talking about is an overpowered Twilight Sparkle going all Goku on Tirek.
Okay, I thought I could go on ignoring it, but I can't hold this in any more:

Would you please for the love of the sweet zombie Jesus read a book or two? I promise, it'll be good for you. If nothing else, it will expand your reference pool beyond My Little Pony, Dragonball Z, and Sonic.
Flying around, getting knocked through mountains, and shooting colored energy beams as each other? Clearly an Atlas Shrugged reference is more appropriate.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Commander_PonyShep said:
... even the ones where somepony else is the main perspective character...
I know it's probably an MLP community thing to change the end of indefinite pronouns to "pony", but why? It's not as if "somebody" would humanize ponies. They have bodies too don't they?
 

IceForce

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Johnny Novgorod said:
I know it's probably an MLP community thing to change the end of indefinite pronouns to "pony", but why? It's not as if "somebody" would humanize ponies. They have bodies too don't they?
Have you seen the show? I'm guessing not, because it's the word the characters in the show use to refer to themselves.
They call each other "somepony", "everypony", etc.

I don't personally use the terms myself, as I'm not that way inclined. But I don't demean those who do.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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IceForce said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
I know it's probably an MLP community thing to change the end of indefinite pronouns to "pony", but why? It's not as if "somebody" would humanize ponies. They have bodies too don't they?
Have you seen the show? I'm guessing not, because it's the word the characters in the show use to refer to themselves.
They call each other "somepony", "everypony", etc.

I don't personally use the terms myself, as I'm not that way inclined. But I don't demean those who do.
Honest question is honest, I was wondering what was the point of changing the words since the point of indefinite pronouns is to refer to unspecified beings. I just wanted to know if there was anything more to it other than a cute gimmick.
 

IceForce

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Honest question is honest, I was wondering what was the point of changing the words since the point of indefinite pronouns is to refer to unspecified beings. I just wanted to know if there was anything more to it other than a cute gimmick.
Fair enough. Though you'd have to ask the show's writers that, as they're the ones who originally came up with the concept.

Anyone who uses those modified words outside the show, are doing so just to copy the show's language and mannerisms.
Why people would do this, who knows. Like I say, I don't personally use those words myself.
 

Sylocat

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Yeah, it was a really good season, way better than I was expecting.

I even liked Daring Don't and Equestria Games, though for various reasons not normally touched on by fans.
 
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Jesus, I'm avoiding spoilers like the plague here, but based on the 26 minus final 3 episodes that I HAVE seen, I can't say that this fourth season has done much for my waning interest in MLP. Certainly some individual elements of individual episodes were extremely well-done, as was the comedy and music for the most part, but it seems to me that the writers have just consistently gotten the characters WRONG. Too much Flanderization, not enough nuance. Pinkie Pie, my personal favorite of the Mane 6, was reduced to little more than obnoxious one-line screamer. The one-liners weren't even funny, just... loud. Because that's all they knew to do with her. It made the episodes that focused on her so very, very hard to watch.

Brash Rainbow Dash was brash, Overbearing Applejack was overbearing (though to a lesser degree), Saccharine Fluttershy was saccharine, etc. etc. They didn't even do anything with Twilight's supposed newfound powers/status/wings. She didn't change, and while some of you might say, "Well, that's a good thing, right?" I'm of the opinion that if she didn't need to change, why change her? As far as I'm aware, Alicorn!Twilight isn't doing much to increase MLP merchandise sales, so there's not even a marketing reason for her transformation. (Sorry if you saw my previous post in whatever thread ago that basically reiterates the same point, but it's something that still irks me.)

The moral lessons espoused lacked the same... not necessarily depth, but close to it... as the first two seasons, where the characters were at their strongest. Part of the problem, I think, is that there's just not much more they can do with the Mane 6. Lessons have been learned, days have been saved, friendships have been forged. The writers don't want to spread any of the stories over multiple episodes, so they're left repeating the same concepts as before. Sometimes they manage to put a nice spin on it, more often not.

I want to see more Spike. Completely random thought, but I would like to see more episodes centered on him. Not morality tales, or Spike-as-incompetent-joke-character, but just him being him. He's got a lot more going for him than most of the ponies do by nature of being so different from them yet coexisting with them. And I understand how that seems like a recipe for his Dragon Quest episode or whatever it was called, but there's no reason they can't play it up a bit more. But maybe I just like Spike and dislike the way they've turned him into comical relief.

The expanded mythology doesn't fit perfectly with what's come before. Just like how Cadence and Twilight break down the omnipotence associated with alicorn-dom, so too do the breezies and fruit bats and other new creatures clash with the established canon. Or maybe it's not so much their sheer existence as it is how they were treated by the writing. They should be common enough in their world that the ponies take it in stride, but sure enough, every episode has to have a character espousing exposition to another character who is not an audience surrogate. Fluttershy explaining the breezies to her friends should only happen at their prompting, not because she feels the episode's prologue timer counting down. This happens far too often in the fourth season: exposition doesn't unfold naturally through story progression and character interaction, but through forced get-it-to-the-audience exposition dumps. Part of this has to be due to episodic storytelling and time constraints, but if they could manage well-written episodes in the first two seasons, why couldn't they do the same afterward? (Well, the answer to that has to do with Lauren Faust's departure from the project, but more broadly, I'd say it's because the writers just aren't very interested in these characters anymore.)

But that's not to say season 4 doesn't have a lot of good things, either. Certainly it's a major recovery from the stumble that was season 3 (and the finale of season 2), and there are a ton of really good comedy moments - Pinkie Pie's quiet pan-up/pan-down scheming smile moment from the barbershop quintet episode was hilarious, as was her gloating afterward, and her egging on Fluttershy is likewise top notch (that episode in general was really top notch). I think things are just hampered a bit by the marketing priorities pushed on the show by the suits; when it was less about that and more about character stories, the series was at its best AND did a better job marketing its wares. (No one really thought about Twilight's balloon as a marketing ploy, but everybody saw Cadence and Alicorn!Twilight for what they were.)

Anyway. That's my two cents.
 

Lazy Kitty

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Seeing as the and was so DBZ like, Frieza didn't get nearly enough screentime.

That said, season 1 is still my favorite.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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I am also of the opinion that Season 1 and 2 were the best. Nothing can beat that feeling when I was introduced to all these amazing characters and their heart-warming + funny adventures, and I can go back to the first/second season and still enjoy re-watching the episodes.
Especially A Canterlot Wedding (S2 finale), holy balls that is still easily my favourite finale.

By the time we reached S3 and S4 I was accustomed to the show/characters and everything became rather predictable.
 

Ishal

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All this season 1 love. I can chop off half that seasons episodes as drek and put it right along season 3 for length. That's not good. I swear, I think people let the whole newness and discovery blind them to some awful writing and showrunning.
 

Roxor

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I haven't seen any of it. From what I've heard about it, I think I did the right thing in giving up on new episodes back in late season 2.

Ah, well, back to the fanfics, where I have a chance of finding something good.

Aaron Sylvester said:
I am also of the opinion that Season 1 and 2 were the best. Nothing can beat that feeling when I was introduced to all these amazing characters and their heart-warming + funny adventures, and I can go back to the first/second season and still enjoy re-watching the episodes.
Especially A Canterlot Wedding (S2 finale), holy balls that is still easily my favourite finale.
I disagree about the funny part. I got the occasional snort out of one of Twilight's lines, but that's as far as it got for me. There's humour in the show, yes, but it's not a funny show.

By the time we reached S3 and S4 I was accustomed to the show/characters and everything became rather predictable.
Don't go blaming season 3 for bringing in predictability. I noticed it rear its ugly head back in early season 2.

Ishal said:
All this season 1 love. I can chop off half that seasons episodes as drek and put it right along season 3 for length. That's not good. I swear, I think people let the whole newness and discovery blind them to some awful writing and showrunning.
Short seasons aren't a bad thing. A lot of the best shows I've got sitting around on my hard drive have entire runs which are just a couple of dozen episodes. In fact, I'll say there's a problem with long seasons: viewer fatigue. It's hard to keep up with new episodes coming in every week, and even worse, people talking about them. After three months, I just want a break, which is why I think 13 episodes is the longest any season should go for.
 

Ishal

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Roxor said:
Short seasons aren't a bad thing. A lot of the best shows I've got sitting around on my hard drive have entire runs which are just a couple of dozen episodes. In fact, I'll say there's a problem with long seasons: viewer fatigue. It's hard to keep up with new episodes coming in every week, and even worse, people talking about them. After three months, I just want a break, which is why I think 13 episodes is the longest any season should go for.
When a show has a running length of 26 episodes traditionally, and then gets cut down to half that, it's going to suffer. Condensing the format where all the people working on it from writers to animators, sound guys to producers/directors have to change their approach, aspects are going to suffer. The show has shown it can fill a season of 26 episodes with great content. Season 2 and 4 are the shining examples of this. So that's no problem.

Keeping up with new episodes is a personal thing. Keeping up with people talking about it is even more so. Nobody is obligated to do it. I didn't catch some of the episodes until way after they aired this season. The best thing about seasons like this is that they can be marathoned. When I first discovered the show I watched huge chunks of seasons back to back. I prefer long seasons. More time to develop things and more for me to enjoy. Part of the reason I'm sour on movies has to do with short length.

As for predictability. It's been predictable since season 1, the very beginning. It's always had standard fair little girl premises. Sleepover episode, dress making episode, fashion show episode, dance party episode. Standard fair for girl cartoons. Nobody comes to MLP for premises that blaze new trails.
 

Divine Retribution

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S4 was the season that actually made me like the show. From what I've seen so far, I rank them S4>S2>S3>S1, and I truly believe that S1 has way too many people looking at it with rose tinted glasses. So many substandard episodes and I can't think of a single one that I'd describe as being great.

And as for Equestria Games, it's one of my favourite episodes. Having an episode based on the games themselves would have either come down to a retread of Rainbow Falls in yet another friends vs glory thing for Rainbow Dash or an unfocused mess that focuses more in frivolous things such as medal counts instead of the characters.
 

Roxor

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Ishal said:
Roxor said:
Short seasons aren't a bad thing. A lot of the best shows I've got sitting around on my hard drive have entire runs which are just a couple of dozen episodes. In fact, I'll say there's a problem with long seasons: viewer fatigue. It's hard to keep up with new episodes coming in every week, and even worse, people talking about them. After three months, I just want a break, which is why I think 13 episodes is the longest any season should go for.
When a show has a running length of 26 episodes traditionally, and then gets cut down to half that, it's going to suffer. Condensing the format where all the people working on it from writers to animators, sound guys to producers/directors have to change their approach, aspects are going to suffer.
If the show was heavily focussed on a continuing story, I'd agree that halving the season length would hurt it. If it's largely self-contained stories, like this one, it's an opportunity to toss out the worst half and focus on making what's left as good as possible.

The show has shown it can fill a season of 26 episodes with great content. Season 2 and 4 are the shining examples of this. So that's no problem.
I wholeheartedly disagree about season 2. That season was one long slog of crap. That combined with a couple of absolutely terrible episodes (Lesson Zero and A Friend In Deed) made me throw in the towel three quarters of the way through.

Keeping up with new episodes is a personal thing. Keeping up with people talking about it is even more so. Nobody is obligated to do it. I didn't catch some of the episodes until way after they aired this season. The best thing about seasons like this is that they can be marathoned. When I first discovered the show I watched huge chunks of seasons back to back. I prefer long seasons. More time to develop things and more for me to enjoy. Part of the reason I'm sour on movies has to do with short length.
It's funny, if I get hooked on a new show, I'll run through the available episodes in a couple of big blocks, but I tend to wind up watching movies in bits. A half-hour here, twenty minutes there, leaving the playback program paused in the meantime.

As for predictability. It's been predictable since season 1, the very beginning. It's always had standard fair little girl premises. Sleepover episode, dress making episode, fashion show episode, dance party episode. Standard fair for girl cartoons. Nobody comes to MLP for premises that blaze new trails.
I didn't find season 1 predictable. It was all new to me. A large chunk of what I saw of season 2, however, had me going "Alright, we get it, X is going to happen!"
 

EternallyBored

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Roxor said:
I didn't find season 1 predictable. It was all new to me. A large chunk of what I saw of season 2, however, had me going "Alright, we get it, X is going to happen!"
Eh, nothing in the show has really surprised me except maybe chrysalis, and even then, the surprise was more with the whole love sucking shapshifter thing rather than the fake cadance turning out to be actually evil.

I am curious what you found so new about the season 1 episodes, because as far as subverting expectations, I would say season 2 did a much better job, I can't think of a single season 1 episode that I didn't see coming after the first 5 minutes, the pop culture gags were a nice touch, and the songs were good, but the plots are pretty standard children's t.v. fare.

The sleepover episode where two contentious characters learn to work together, the cliche sharing episode where the hero has an item everyone wants, the jealousy over being replaced episode where the jealous character tries to frame the other character for something they didn't do, the unrealistic expectations episode where everything becomes a comedy of errors, the fitting in episode where the character tries all the stuff they obviously aren't good at before the obvious answer presented at the beginning of the episode is realized by the main character (seriously the plot of winter wrapup was revealed before the opening title), and the "don't judge a book by its cover" episode where a character acts really suspicious and the plot clumsily tries to make them look like the initial judgement was right and totally turns out to be wrong at the very last second.

I dunno, maybe its working in a child centered setting where a lot of children's entertainment ends up playing on the lobby t.v., or maybe it's that Lauren Faust and her writers were borrowing pretty heavily from their previous shows (especially foster's home and Ed, Edd, and Eddy, which I really like), but season 1 of MLP was pretty standard children's television, most of my interest came from the fascinating mix of fantasy/ technology/ and mythology, while avoiding the cliche overused humans, dwarves, and elves that infest fantasy settings, and the interesting characters that were probably one of the strongest representations of an all female main cast I've ever seen in children's television to date.

Not that I'm judging you, there's something special about the first season of any good show that later seasons can never replicate because you can't introduce the same beloved characters twice.
 

Veylon

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I felt Season 4 had a lot of wasted potential. There was a big build up to the Equestria Games...except nothing was done with them. Twilight was made a Princess in Season 3 and...almost nothing was done with that either. The mystery box contained the most obvious thing possible. The writers continue to have no idea what to do with any of the mythology or settings that have been created. They really have no idea what to do with Celestia or Luna, except have them conveniently taken out of action. Someone somewhere has to take a good long look at all this lore that's been built up and slap some sense into it.

But first I need to talk about Pinkie Pie. I never liked Pinkie Pie. Or at least not as much as any of the others. But now whatever few positive qualities she had have been utterly stripped away. She's just annoying and random and foolish. She used to be random and (seemingly) foolish (and sometimes annoying), but it was a side effect of her desire to cheer up others and her unorthodox thinking. That's been lost.

Moving on, more needed to be done to flesh out the how and why of Twilight's princesshood. A movie would've been ideal for this; Twilight's new role could be explored and by the end of it a new status quo would be established that could be picked up in the next season. Instead we got Equestria Girls. The opening two-parter could also have done this; instead we got a series of flashbacks that - while very cool - were ultimately pointless.

Really, a whole arc of Twilight needing to learn how to do Princessing has essentially been passed over.

Next up would be the Equestria Games. They would've made a good finale. And because I can't let the Princess thing go, they could even have tied the two together by having Twilight be put in charge of organizing them as her first big public role.

This would give a few different levels of stress to the whole thing. For one part, Twilight's terrified of screwing this big responsibility up in front of her idol. Some of her friends - probably Rainbow and AJ - are hoping to win medals. Others will be there to help, for opportunities to show off, or simply to enjoy the spectacle. There's an opportunity to bring back Gilda and Lightning Dust as rivals. It's a big event; it'll be inherently chaotic and unwieldly so there's no need to dredge up a villain to make trouble. Because this thing's being run by Twilight, Celestia and Luna will have a reason - other than being incapacitated - to step back and let her deal with things.

And this leads up to Celestia and Luna: they are given nothing to do. Well, Luna a little bit. The writers seem to feel that the only way for Twilight to shine is for the elder Princesses to be rendered useless. Why not have Twilight be the one who comes up with a plan, for once, and have them help her carry it out? That would show how much she's risen in their estimation. Or have Twilight & friends need to cover the Princesses' backs while they cast the must-not-be-interrupted Big Spell; it's the same effect as them being unavailable, but it doesn't come across as them being useless.

What's (maybe) worse is that they've been effectively written out of the show. While their appearances should be rare, it's now become an issue due to Twilight's new role and her need to access them regularly to learn how to do her job properly. There wasn't one Princess training episode this season. I am disappoint. I'd like to note, too, that Twilight leaving to go train is also an opportunity to kick her off the show whenever needed and an excuse for other characters to go with her and get up to shenanigans in Canterlot or wherever else training happens.

Season Four was kind of a mixed bag for me. I liked it more than Season 3, but it never really hit some of the best of 2. It had the feel of a season-long version of the Crystal Empire: darker, deeper stuff is brought in, is briefly epic, but then evaporates leaving what's left feeling poorer and weaker by comparison. It's not terrible - though it does have it's really stupid moments - but it feels unsatisfying. It needed an editor.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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Roxor said:
I disagree about the funny part. I got the occasional snort out of one of Twilight's lines, but that's as far as it got for me. There's humour in the show, yes, but it's not a funny show.
Of course it's not a "funny" show compared to something that is aiming for comedy...but it's all about standards, expectations and tone. Humor comes in many forms and light-hearted humor is some of my favorite. It's why in Avatar: The Last Airbender I found plenty of genuinely hilarious scenes even though that wasn't a "funny show" either.

Roxor said:
By the time we reached S3 and S4 I was accustomed to the show/characters and everything became rather predictable.
Well for me Season 3 was definitely something that seemed to have most of it's heart and soul missing compared to S1+2. Perhaps it acts as a sharp border between S1+2 and S4 for me :p

Here are my favorite episodes from S1 and S2, in no particular order with reasons why I liked them:

Friendship Is Magic P1 + P2 - introduction to sheer adorableness
Boast Busters - Trixie, hell yeah
Bridle Gossip - one of the funniest episodes of all time
Suited For Success - Rarity the drama queen
Feeling Pinkie Keen - Pinkie at her best here
Sonic Rainboom - because sonic rainboom
A Dog and Pony Show - More Rarity drama
Green Isn't Your Color - Photo Finish, great episode
Party of One - Pinkie's depression and spiral into insanity
The Best Night Ever - solely for Fluttershy going nuts

The Return Of Harmony P1 + P2 - Discord, that is all.
Luna Eclipsed - Luna struggles to integrate back into society, funny times
The Mysterious Mare Do Well - this actually had me wondering who the mare was
Baby Cakes - this was just hands-down funny
Read It and Weep - RD stuck in hospital and starts reading, LOVE this episode
Hearts and Hooves Day - Cherrelie + Big Mac accidental love relationship
Putting Your Hoof Down - Iron Will was awesome
A Canterlot Wedding P1 + P2 - still my favorite finale