MMO's: Is there hope for the next generation?

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
0
0
'm seriously considering giving up MMO's, at least until a halfway decent one with a good player base comes out. While I don't expect any game to be perfect, almost every MMO I've tried recently has at least one or two massive gaping flaws in it. Here's what I've tried recently:

World of Warcraft: The current undisputed king of MMO's, WoW comes to us from Blizzard Entertainment and has a lot of what an MMO needs to be successful; it has an interesting, engaging fantasy plot. It has a large player base to allow for plenty of interaction with others. It has an easy-to-use interface. Its graphics are well done, but not so much that it makes a processor strain.

But this game is not without some rather bad flaws. The first is its quest types; it's pretty much limited to "kill x number of enemies/collect x number of items dropped by enemies", "Kill this particular bad guy that it too tough to take out without at least four other friends", and "Escort this brainless retard along a predetermined path with predetermined ambushes, so you better clear the way of wandering monsters first". Now I admit there aren't many other kinds of quests you CAN do out there, but there has to be a way to mix things up a bit; maybe create multiple ways of completing some of them depending on what kind of character you play, or have more class-specific or profession-specific content.

The next problem is while the player-base is large, too many of them are "power gamers", players only interested in being the the biggest hulking juggernaut out there. These players care nothing about the story of the game, only plowing through the game experience as fast as they can so they can reach the highest level possible. These people are no fun to play with when you're trying to work as a team on a quest because they're always in a damn hurry and will leave you behind if you stop to read a quest message or pick up in-game crafting materials. They're also no fun to play with when roleplaying because they'll constantly talk in net-speak, plus some of them insult a person for trying to act in character. Also, despite the large player base, it's also very scattered. It can be very hard to get together a group for a dungeon, though a good guild can correct this. The problem is particularly noticeable these days around the lower levels if you're starting an alt or just getting into the game; the playerbase is very overbalanced on the higher level side with fewer low-level players these days.

Lastly, the inclusion of PvP in this game is very awkward. Some of the most powerful weapons and armor are available only for those who take part in the "battleground" PvP that has only a loose connection to the story-driven part of the game. But the prices on these items are so high, a player has to dedicate frankly unhealthy amounts of time to build up the necessary battleground points to get them. This just adds a layer of work onto the already challenging task of leveling your character. Not only that, but while the user interface is great for "player vs. environment" fighting, you have to come up with an entirely new key layout for effective PvP combat to allow you to both move and attack with the keyboard while you use the mouse to swing the camera around rather than click on your opponent. The tireless obsessives that play the game four hours minimum every single day won't have a problem with this, but for those of us who like to do things outside of grinding, it's a pain in the ass.

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes: This MMO from Sigil, a company bought out by Sony Online Entertainment, is also fantasy based and has very high end graphics. It's a little demanding on hardware, but the interface, much like WoW, is very intuitive. The gameplay is fun, breaking up the usual monotony of fighting quests by also including diplomacy and crafting, which they flesh out more than other MMO's by making their mechanics challenging mini-games and puzzles. However, this game suffers from a smaller player base than it needs, meaning questing at higher levels were groups are needed becomes a bit of a challenge. But this problem is something that could possibly be corrected over time. The crafting and diplomacy aren't without their tedious moments either, but most of the time the uniqueness of them from other MMO's makes it forgivable. However, there's one problem that really makes this game stumble out of the starting gate; while each of the playable races has something of a background to them, the overall story to the game is incredibly weak. There's extremely little immersion in the game, requiring you to almost have to dream up explanations as to why you're bothering to do any of your questing besides some arbitrary desire to become famous or some shit.

Neocron 2: Beyond The Dome of York: This German-based MMO is from Reakktor Inc., and goes in a slightly different direction by being a cyberpunk, post-apocalyptic game with an interesting back story. It also meshes FPS and RPG elements very well; better weapon skills means your aim improves, more stamina means you can run longer, etc. Graphically the game is adequate, although the last edition of the game makes most of the characters look like futuristic Barbie dolls.

While the game has an impressive backstory, its in-game story is pretty lackluster, revolving mostly around you furthering the dealings of whatever faction (or company) you work for. Skills develop in sets, each set independent of each other. However, some complimentary skills are in the same set (like research to create construction blueprints and construction to build things from those blueprints), meaning if you put points in one you can't put points in the other without sacrificing the ability to reach the peak of either skill. This creates a bit of forced cooperation, which isn't necessarily bad, if it wasn't for the game's major problem. Sadly, this game is one whose major flaw is correctable, but not likely to be. The player base for this game is extremely small; the most populated server is usually 3-4 percent full. Unfortunately this game, if it's not on its deathbed, is likely slipping into a coma, and won't come out of it unless some more story-driven, in-game content is added to spice up the otherwise repetitive manual labor jobs the factions hand out to allow people to earn money.

Warhammer Online: Age of Reconing: This fantasy MMO is the newest MMO I've played, and I think the phrase that describes it best is "World of Warcraft Lite." It's plot is just as immersive as WoW, its graphics are good and it manages to make PvP a bit better by making it a part of the game experience from the start and weaving it into the game experience. The controls are a little less awkward than WoW for PvP combat. However, outside of the core PvP combat of the game, there's little else to it. Each class has its signature weapons and armor and there's no deviation from it allowed. Also the player base, while not too small, is spread rather thin, so grouping for quests can be difficult. Quests are livened up, though, by the inclusion of "public quests", repeated events that are started by the arrival of a player at a specific site. Other players passing by can jump in at any time during any stage and start helping out, although this will put them at a disadvantage to players who were at the quest earlier when it comes time to divvy up the loot, but that's to be expected.

WAR has very few major flaws, but all its little ones put together bring it down a bit. The game world is also small, so little exploration is required, comparatively. The lack of any interesting features outside of fighting, though, is perhaps the biggest problem.

When it comes right down to it, I've just been disappointed with MMO's in general lately. A lot of elements are needed to make an MMO successful, I've found: a good plot, graphics that balance with performance, a good inteface, and a large enough player base that's made up of people interested in working with the plot. I think the latest generation of MMO's isn't going to provide that. Fortunately the new year is just around the corner, so with a bit of luck and huge dose of divine guidance, maybe the next series of MMO's will show the game developers have learned from experience.
 

xitel

Assume That I Hate You.
Aug 13, 2008
4,618
0
0
Well, with the next generation of MMOs like the Agency branching away from the RPG suffix to the acronym, I think things will start to get better. I still think we need a good, popular MMOFPS. Planetside started out good, but fell by the wayside fast, so now everyone is afraid of making new ones.
 

Crunchy English

Victim of a Savage Neck-bearding
Aug 20, 2008
779
0
0
I think that persistant gaming is something very dangerous, especially coupled with monthly fees. The minute a company's goals make that subtle shift from "How much you like it" to "How long you play it" the player based is pretty much screwed.

Making something enjoyable is difficult but not impossible. Making something mind-numbingly addictive for reasons other than that of pleasure is child's play.

MMO's need to step down, or at least adapt. I love the idea of playing games with my friends, in a persistant world. I hate the idea of renting a virtual gamesroom to see them in every day, and having our experience hampered by other groups who are playing the same game, with wildly different goals.
 

Caliostro

Headhunter
Jan 23, 2008
3,253
0
0
I'll start caring about MMOs once one comes that is something more than grind and spreadsheet-based-"combat".

In other words: When they stop sucking.
 

Baby Tea

Just Ask Frankie
Sep 18, 2008
4,687
0
0
I actually just got the EVE trial, and so far (Admittedly, I'm not far AT ALL into it) I like it better then World of Warcraft. Now I've seen the Zero Punctuation treatment it got, as well as a few threads/posts said the game isn't that good, but I'm enjoying it so far.

I only really mention it because it wasn't on your list.

I do agree that MMO games DO have to adapt in order to do one of two things:

1) Topple the WoW machine, which is undeniably the beast in the market. Like it or not, it's huge and it's staying for a while.

2) Become as successful as the WoW machine, which doesn't always mean toppling it.

I think the general cry is less grinding and more 'hands on' type combat, rather then 'one click combat'.

BUT, therein lies the problem! One person may abhor one-click combat, another may love it. One person may find grinding to be the WORST of gameplay ideas, and another may not mind so much. I think the evidence lies in the success in WoW: A grind-tastic, one-click combat game that is CRAZY successful, even after years of release and very little in the way of major updates.

It's successful for a reason.

So developers need to stop trying to 'beat' WoW in terms of success, and ask themselves:
What market is WoW NOT getting into?
What type of gamer is totally put off by WoW, but not by the idea of an MMO?

Then what you'll have isn't the Successor to WoW, but a different animal altogether that fulfills the gaming needs of those who are done, or have no interest, in the MMO format of WoW.
 

Steve Dark

New member
Oct 23, 2008
468
0
0
That's why I like Guild Wars so much. While it's not a mummorpurger in the traditional sense, it fixes a great number of the flaws in today's MMO market. It has no monthly fees for a start, which as a poor student type I think is wonderful. :p But also it has a main plot that the game follows, with many cutscenes (something I feel was totally lacking in WoW). And there isn't a single "go kill x monsters till y items drop" quest! Not to mention the level cap of 20 is quick to reach, so from then on it's all about the skill of the player. Also, THERE IS NO GRIND.

Hmm... I didn't mean to come in here and dance around blowing the Guild Wars trumpet, but that seems to be exactly what I've done. Oh well, to try and keep with the general idea of this thread, I think that there is hope for the next generation. That is as long as the industry can learn from it's flaws.

P.S The PvP in Guild Wars is great too. ;)
 

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
0
0
Crunchy English said:
I think that persistant gaming is something very dangerous, especially coupled with monthly fees. The minute a company's goals make that subtle shift from "How much you like it" to "How long you play it" the player based is pretty much screwed.

Making something enjoyable is difficult but not impossible. Making something mind-numbingly addictive for reasons other than that of pleasure is child's play.

MMO's need to step down, or at least adapt. I love the idea of playing games with my friends, in a persistant world. I hate the idea of renting a virtual gamesroom to see them in every day, and having our experience hampered by other groups who are playing the same game, with wildly different goals.
Very good points. When a company's only goal is to prolong the gaming experience as long as possible, it does inevitably lead to the abuse of their customers by arbitrarily lengthening the process without making the content any more interesting. I too enjoy being able to play with other people in a persistent world, being able to explore and have adventures with them. But yes, the monthly fees often seem very overpriced for the experience you get, and having to put up with jerks who spoil the fun is makes you wonder why you bought the game at all.
 

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
0
0
Steve Dark said:
That's why I like Guild Wars so much. While it's not a mummorpurger in the traditional sense, it fixes a great number of the flaws in today's MMO market. It has no monthly fees for a start, which as a poor student type I think is wonderful. :p But also it has a main plot that the game follows, with many cutscenes (something I feel was totally lacking in WoW). And there isn't a single "go kill x monsters till y items drop" quest! Not to mention the level cap of 20 is quick to reach, so from then on it's all about the skill of the player. Also, THERE IS NO GRIND.

Hmm... I didn't mean to come in here and dance around blowing the Guild Wars trumpet, but that seems to be exactly what I've done. Oh well, to try and keep with the general idea of this thread, I think that there is hope for the next generation. That is as long as the industry can learn from it's flaws.

P.S The PvP in Guild Wars is great too. ;)
I've heard of Guild Wars too. I'm tempted to try it, honestly, except that I've heard a lot about a sequel coming out soon that will be a brand new game and the next chapter; hence most of the people playing Guild Wars now will jump on that and leave those of us still struggling through the game content of the first series in their dust. Still, if the top level is reached relatively quickly, maybe that's not too big a concern.
 

Undead Dragon King

Evil Spacefaring Mantis
Apr 25, 2008
1,149
0
0
BioWare and Lucasarts team up once again for the KOTORMMO "The Old Republic". The single quality that they're trumpeting about it is that it's supposed to have a fantastic story, with NPC party members to help you complete said story-driven objectives. Essentially, it sounds like a KOTOR III that you pay a monthly fee for and play with other people.

It's a nice idea in theory, but what happens when PC's want to join a group? Will we be seeing clones of those party members if one of those PC's just happen to have them, or will the NPC's conveniently excuse themselves when the player types in "Lv 32 Jedi Guardian LFG"?

If BioWare can successfully navigate the elements of the orginal KOTOR games into "The Old Republic", we may see a possible contender against WOW. I don't really know how they're going to do it, but I have faith in BioWare. They've never let my expectaions down before.

Baldur's Gate II and Jon Irenicus ftw!
 

Cousin_IT

New member
Feb 6, 2008
1,822
0
0
Neocron 2 does suffer from being completely unpopulated. I tried it for a bit (found a retail version with 1month gametime for 99p). The game itself seemed pretty decent if a little confusing to navigate (lots of corridors). However, I only ever encountered 1 person while playing, & they promptly shot me :-D

I think too many MMOs seem to think that the way to make it is to be the next WoW. Consequently ive found alot of post WoW MMOs to just be copy & paste affairs with different graphics/settings. Thats all well & good (we all love the familiar) but WoW already gives its playerbase what it wants. Offering them the same thing & saying "abandon your lvl70 uber whatever. Come go through the 2year grind all over again with us" is something I dont see as an appealing selling point & the bottom line is that is most other monthly fee MMOs really have to offer.

Thats not to say alot of MMOs out there cant & dont have initial success. But that is not how the MMO business works. For an MMO to survive & grow it has to be able to both attract & retain a large % of its subscribers. Offering an alternative to WoW is good in the shortterm. But in the longterm once the novelty of a new game has worn out many subscribers will "Go Back to WoW" unless theres something significant offered to people that one cant find elsewhere. Coupled with that the frankly astounding ability for even experienced MMO developers (im looking at you Funcom) to completely screw things up with their games release, or for changes to alienate the playerbase without attracting a new one (SWG) & frankly im not surprised when I read new games like Tabula Rasa & Hellgate: London fail
 

Credge

New member
Apr 12, 2008
1,042
0
0
Caliostro said:
I'll start caring about MMOs once one comes that is something more than grind and spreadsheet-based-"combat".
So you mean something like Age of Conan or Ultima Online?

Undead Dragon King said:
BioWare and Lucasarts team up once again for the KOTORMMO "The Old Republic". The single quality that they're trumpeting about it is that it's supposed to have a fantastic story, with NPC party members to help you complete said story-driven objectives. Essentially, it sounds like a KOTOR III that you pay a monthly fee for and play with other people.

It's a nice idea in theory, but what happens when PC's want to join a group? Will we be seeing clones of those party members if one of those PC's just happen to have them, or will the NPC's conveniently excuse themselves when the player types in "Lv 32 Jedi Guardian LFG"?

If BioWare can successfully navigate the elements of the orginal KOTOR games into "The Old Republic", we may see a possible contender against WOW. I don't really know how they're going to do it, but I have faith in BioWare. They've never let my expectaions down before.

Baldur's Gate II and Jon Irenicus ftw!
It will probably be no different than Guild Wars. You have NPC's that you can group with and you can group with them while you group with people.
 

Nutcase

New member
Dec 3, 2008
1,177
0
0
OK, here's something I don't understand.

If you have a monthly membership at a gym, the gym doesn't care if you only show up four times a month. In fact it's slightly good for them, as you are not putting as much of a strain on their facilities as you could be. Going that rarely is normal and appropriate, e.g. if you compete in a sport, and your exercise program only calls for weight training once a week, with sport specific training on most other days.

Now, what I want to do in WoW is max level PvP for a few hours a week. I want to PvP on multiple classes. That would be worth the price of admission for me. After all, if I only play half an hour per day, it's still just $1/hour for the entertainment.

But Blizzard can't have that. If I have one 80, and want to switch classes or even races, they ask me to stop playing my main and sit through mindnumbingly boring content (all of which I have already seen, most of it several times over) for months IRL. All so that I can get the alt to 80 and get it absolute minimum supplies like mount. What's the deal here? Putting this BS in the way of the entertaining part can only make me less willing to keep parting with $15. I lose anyway, Blizzard loses or stays even, no one gains anything no matter what.
 

klaypeeple

New member
Nov 27, 2008
7
0
0
I'll toss in my 2 cents about one vastly overlooked MMO: Final Fantasy XI
I played it on release, then quit for WoW, then quit WoW to rejoin FFXI. Also, I play WAR but honestly, I don't think it has any staying power because of the aforementioned "small" world, and also very boring and pattern-based style of play. Back to FFXI...
Started in Japan for about a year before releasing in the US, then about 2 more years before finding its' way to EU, it's a Final Fantasy game apart from the rest.
If you're unfamiliar with the previous (and subsequent) FF games, you need not worry about feeling lost. The gameplay, characters, settings, and story haven't been recycled from other games, leaving it as a standalone game with a standalone story and a HUGE world.
The game is entirely keyboard based, though you can incorporate the mouse if you prefer. Character movement and commands are simple, also a simplistic but effective macro system is easy enough for anyone to learn without having to learn script. The story is flourishing and broad, and the grind can be done with full or little involving of yourself in the tales of the vast world around you. The game has undergone many expansions, and all are available as a single-purchase bundle. Each expansion features its' own addition to the story and an addition to the world. Unlike many MMOs which begin at top level, FFXI features many level-capped quests and missions that will involve players even as they level, allowing you to partake in the fun very early on.
This game does suffer from a few, large setbacks. The first and foremost being its' money system. It is difficult to earn your money and this has forced many to purchase the currency online. While not recommended, it is the only way to start off the game as a brand new player without spending immense amounts of time "farming", as most methods of earning money are the result of a large amount of money invested to begin with.
Another large problem facing FFXI is the leveling system. In most cases, you are unable to efficiently solo monsters that yield a decent amount of experience beyond the first 10 or so levels. This forces you to spend time online "Looking for Group" before you can even make any forward progress. Some proudly brag that this is the game's shining trait, in that it has a sense of community that I personally guarantee you will NOT find in WoW or WAR. Players, especially in later levels, spend lots of time partied together and get to know who is quality and in some cases prefer to only level with people they know.
Some other cons of FFXI are the travel system, which has been tweaked many many times in an effort to improve the process of getting from one point to another. Without exaggeration, there are places to go that even with the best of transportation modes available, take upwards of 30-45 minutes to travel to. Also death, along with having a penalty of a healthy loss of experience, forces you to either wait for someone to resurrect you (better hope they're close!) or respawning aain from your homepoint, which along with the experience deficit, you also suffer the time lost in travel as mentioned above.
So what is it that not only keeps people playing, but also lured me back despite the vast options available in other MMOs? It's the sense of community, the immense, immersive storyline, loveable characters, gorgeous surroundings, and something missing from many other MMO's: music! Th visuals of the game are outstanding for their time (approx 2003), but the elements of weather effects, progression of day/night, and the absence of trying to make the game look "realistic" and pushing the fantasy aspect without getting too cartoony or simplistic. Without a doubt, FFXI is a large time sink. It has a gentle learning curve and the community is what makes the game set apart from all others. The integration of English, Japanese, French, and German languages into an auto-translate function has enabled gamers from all over the world from many cultures communicate (though not perfectly) with each other. FFXI trial discs are in many game stores for $1.99 (US) for a 15 day limited trial.
 

Fightgarr

Concept Artist
Dec 3, 2008
2,913
0
0
Caliostro said:
I'll start caring about MMOs once one comes that is something more than grind and spreadsheet-based-"combat".

In other words: When they stop sucking.
YES!!!! And when I stop having to pay for them after I've already bought the game.
 

MorganL4

Person
May 1, 2008
1,364
0
0
i agree it will be interesting to see where console mmo's take us, if im not mistaken the agency is the only one out at the moment, i dont have a ps3 so i dont know how it plays, to be honest i havnt heard good or bad things about this game, at all