MMOs stifle creativity yet turn profit, I think that sucks.

zaro27

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Think about it! MMO's are commonly hackneyed, samey, and boring! But do people still play WoW like it's going out of style? Yep. But Zaro27, what about the innovative gameplay of MMO's like WAR and Age of Conan?

Easy answer: People don't play them, therefore people don't want to play them. What does that tell you about the MMO industry? Again, easy: Change is not wanted in MMO's.

Case in point: WoW. WoW does very little that hasn't been done before. It's basically Everquest with a pastel coating. Recently (Read: As people become tired of the same shit), Blizzard has put some new content to satisfy their hardcore fans. Is WoW the best Everquest that's ever been made? Yes! Is it still Everquest? Yes!

What about Aion? It's WoW with wings.

So, who here can change my mind?
 

xavierxenon

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Ok, lets suppose all MMO's are the same, but then again aren't all FPS's the same, all driving games the same and so on?

That sounds like a great idea, lets say every game in a genre is the same as each other.

Why don't people stop hating on MMO's because they don't like them? I've stopped hating halo because its just stupid (My opinion on the topic, not the game)
 

NotMemorable

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It's our fault, not the designers. Designer companies always go for profit, we're to blame for paying for the shit they make.
 

zaro27

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Its true. I don't like MMO's. But you've gotta admit, they're all pretty much the same, at least in terms of gameplay. They never really change enough for me to say, "Now there's an original MMO." I have hope, though. TOR looks like it can make me love MMO's.


Edit: Yes, it's partially the players fault. Players need to support the strange concepts. But developers need to give us strange concepts in a way that we can understand them and rally behind them, differences held high like a frigging banner.
 

Flour

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zaro27 said:
Its true. I don't like First Person Shooters. But you've gotta admit, they're all pretty much the same, at least in terms of gameplay. They never really change enough for me to say, "Now there's an original FPS."
Funny, now it's about First Person Shooters

Not much of an argument when a single acronym will change the full meaning, and every change will get the same basic answer from me: Shut the fuck up if you don't like it.

Why would anyone want to try and change your mind when you're just here to troll about WoW.(well, there will always be some idiot who tries, I guess I would have to thank you for a good laugh when that person shows up)
 

zaro27

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Not trolling, my good sir. Just asking for a civil discourse on why there aren't any popular and different MMO's. I'm asking for proof of an MMO that is/has been popular and is different. The only one I can think of is EVE, but EVE is sorta in it's own class. Also, part of me wants to like MMO's. I want to get that amazing, life ruining experience that everyone else has. I want to enjoy the grind.
 

Cargando

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Does it matter? If you don't like them, you don't like them. Why should I try to change your mind?
 

BlueberryFalacy

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To tell the truth I dount we'll ever see a MMO of any kind that isn't samey. But for the main fact that all the edgier ideas are canned in the name of appealing to a wider demographic than just:
A)Those that are mature enough to get/understand/like edgier/more creative ideas, or
B)Those looking for something different

I can understand why some companies have to fold to these pressures, but those like Nexon, NCSoft, Blizzard and Wizards Of The Coast have no excuse for it as they make enough money to cover development costs, server prices, huge huge chunks of bandwidth for said servers, future projects and still have enough to go all Scrooge McDuck.

(Discourse started)
 

zaro27

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I sadly agree. This reminds me of Tabula Rasa, which I have never played. I remember hearing about how you have clones at different points in your character's career. I think that's a pretty good idea, but obviously it wasn't that good. I have hope that Blizzard will unveil their new non-WoW MMO and announce some massive, unique ideas. The press will say, "What? This is nothing like WoW! What are we supposed to compare it to? How are we going to tell the masses about this game?!" and Blizzard will laugh heartily as millions of gamers decide to try their new MMOTPS/RTS/RPG with squad based clan wars.

If Blizzard or NCSoft or Nexon does something unique, you can bet that dozens of copies will be made and we'll eventually find them to be samey.

On an unrelated note, I don't think Wizards could revolutionize MMO's. It seems like they're focusing more on their paper based RPG's and children's card games.
 

clankwise

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Well im still waiting for a mmofps. Game develpors have already made fpsrpg and i love those games so lets add some online to that. Check out borderlands pretty close to what i mean
http://pc.ign.com/objects/957/957205.html
 

BlueberryFalacy

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zaro27 said:
On an unrelated note, I don't think Wizards could revolutionize MMO's. It seems like they're focusing more on their paper based RPG's and children's card games.
Not entirely true they have their finger in every single D&D pie, which while sounding samey, that could easily actually spawn into something beyond a Tolkienian fair.

clankwise said:
Well im still waiting for a mmofps. Game develpors have already made fpsrpg and i love those games so lets add some online to that. Check out borderlands pretty close to what i mean
http://pc.ign.com/objects/957/957205.html
Well the closest you'll get is MAG (Massive Army Game) and thats looking mighty buggy at this time so we may have a few years wait for that
 

WickedArtist

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Cwn_Annwn said:
To tell the truth I dount we'll ever see a MMO of any kind that isn't samey. But for the main fact that all the edgier ideas are canned in the name of appealing to a wider demographic than just:
A)Those that are mature enough to get/understand/like edgier/more creative ideas, or
B)Those looking for something different

I can understand why some companies have to fold to these pressures, but those like Nexon, NCSoft, Blizzard and Wizards Of The Coast have no excuse for it as they make enough money to cover development costs, server prices, huge huge chunks of bandwidth for said servers, future projects and still have enough to go all Scrooge McDuck.

(Discourse started)
It's easy to attach the image of faceless corporates swimming in piles of money, but that's hardly fair or accurate. Even the big players in the game industry can't afford to throw around their money on an unknown prospect. And change is an unknown prospect. These companies may make a lot of money, but they also spend a lot of it so they can release their next AAA and blockbuster titles.
 

BlueberryFalacy

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Fair, no, accurate, maybe not entirely.

I'll use blizzard as the topic point here:
Math time 30 x >11 mill (couldn't find the actual figure at this time) x 12

You do the math and tell me they aren't making enough money to at least try put a few new "radical" ideas into their games to try pulling in those wanting something more from an MMO
 

TPiddy

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The problem with MMO's is that they need to build a following pretty quickly in order to establish that first "M" in "MMO".

In this case, it's much easier to build a game around something that has already established said following, such as the upcoming Star Wars MMO.

MMO's will definitely begin to diversify because Blizzard has proven there's a lucrative market for them. APB and SW:TOR are steps in the right direction.
 

BlueberryFalacy

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The problem is will they really want to when there are so many people that will jump on a bandwagon if given enough leverage (Case point being WoW(sorry of this seems like we are bashing it but it is one of the biggest eastern MMOs)) I mean hell the only way to really earn the first M in MMO is to hype your game up to the point that it won't live up to peoples expectations, the simpler cheats way is to rip off/clone/bastardize/use an idea that people already love.
 

BlueberryFalacy

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TsunamiWombat said:
Dungeon Fighter is different. I dunno if i'd say it's 'good', but it's different.
I'll agree with different, MMOFS aint my cup of tea though, so it'll probably not fair well from me
 

Therumancer

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Well, actually I think MMORPGS mostly fail due to a lack of creativity. The reason why WoW continues to dominate is simply because it's the best thing out there. It's very well polished, has a lot of people who have invested insane amounts of time in it, and has continued to grow as time has gone on, as well as continue to innovate new features and events. The way the world can morph to your character based on what you have done, driving siege engines, and other things are all innovations that came out with Lich King for example.


In comparison Age Of Conan and WAR were buggy messes that might have innovated in a couple of areas but were also FAR below the dominant MMORPG overall. For example in WAR there was little variability between gear and such, limited equipment sets made everyone look pretty much the same. Age Of Conan had some potential, but didn't actually deliver 9/10ths of what it promised, being sort of the Peter Molyneux of the MMO crowd... except where Peter still turns out an above average product, AoC was a stinking turd once you got past the tutorial.

It's important to note that the success of WoW was largely due to it's unprecedented budget when it was developed. In comparison other MMORPGs are developed on a shoestring. Also Blizzard was given a free hand to sit on it until it was done to their satisfaction, most MMORPGs do not have that luxury.

Right now to take down WoW will involve someone willing to come up with record setting amounts of money, meaning they will have to wait a year or three before they start to see returns (a big gamble), and then be patient while their team works. So we're talking someone (or more likely a group of someones) laying down probably what would currently be a couple hundred million bucks, seeing a game spend as much as 5 years in development, and then having to wait 2-3 years of operation (if it succeeds) to see the returns. Most producers aren't willing to do stuff like that, they want their money to multiply RIGHT NOW! A couple years
of development time is the most they are willing to wait in many cases. WoW is more or less the result of a "perfect storm" of online RPG development variables.

It's also noteworthy to keep in mind that current MMORPGs are not competing with WoW as it was a few years ago when it launched. They are competing with WoW *now*. Sitting down and saying "well, we've got as much content as WoW did when it launched" doesn't work because when your competing in entertainment value and how quickly people are going to max it out, you have to consider what WoW has now to keep people occupied.

The realities of MMORPG development have simply resulting in a lot of WoW players simply trying out a new game here and there, while they play WoW, or during brief lapses of interest/burn out. However lacking any other games with the same enduring value or quality, it's always back to WoW at the end.

Right now I have no vested interest in WoW going down. I feel that nothing is forever though and due to the time I've put into it, I'd prefer that they eventually shut it down (with an epic send off) when the next big game arrives, as opposed to wringing every last penny out of it as it grows increasingly pathetic with time when this day arrives.

Truthfully I've been watching games for a while, and honestly the only MMO that has the vibe that it COULD overcome WoW is "The Old Republic". Bioware is a quality team of developers, allegedly has a high production budget, and also seems to be able to do justice to their franchise. As nice as the current bits I've seen are though, there are enduring questions about how much content there actually is. The most awesome MMO in the world is going to get crushed by WOW unless you can literally put hundreds of hours into it, not counting grinding. If your going to be able to see every zone in the game inside of 2 weeks (even just passing through) then chances are there is going to be a problem.


Age of Conan as it was hyped could have perhaps gone head to head with WoW, but simply put it did NOT have 40+ character classes, it's city development and battleground systems were nothing like promised, and overall it was a general mess. Heck, I was one of those people who was kind of excited about getting a War Mammoth as a pre-order bonus: a combat capable mount that doubles as a siege engine! The reality was however something else entirely, AoC being the only game that could make riding a bloody War Mammoth feel like a chore/disadvantage. I mean when I summon my mighty steed and then go "dang, travelling would be much easier and more fun if I was on foot" there is a problem.

The only game with worse steeds than the AoC ones (Mammoth, Rhino, etc...) is arguably Two Worlds. Two Worlds needs some kind of special catagory for horrendously annoying and unfun mounts. As a result of Two World I have become instantly skeptical of any game that promotes mounted combat. :p
 

BlueberryFalacy

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That is fair enough, but even then every nearly every single MMORPG gets weighed against WoW these days, even if there is no competition.