Modern Gamers Unimpressed by Miyamoto

[Cheesepower5]

I would like to see them do a Trine-esque Zelda. You've got three people linked together by a powerful force, use it! Link is a jack-of-all-trades medium fighter with little magic skill, relying on his bag of tricks to augment his fighting skills. Ganon's a brute force heavy fighter with some magic skill. Zelda's a light fighter with skill in magic, specializing in long range combat. Have puzzles tailored to using each of their skills.

Have Demise resurrected, where we find that Ganon was a pawn in his schemes. Ganon goes all "I AM NOT YOUR PAWN!!!" and joins forces with Link and Zelda.

That'd actually be a really good, balanced mechanic. They'd be different combat wise and in puzzles. Like, Link and Zelda could both have bows, but where Links can just shoot down keese and hit eye targets, Zelda has access to fir/ice/light arrows. Link and Ganon both have swords, but Ganon's is heavier and more powerful where Link strikes with more speed and accuracy. Zelda might effortlessly melt a frozen target, but be useless against a giant stone wall that Ganon simply smashes right through. Brilliant idea, dude.

captcha: half inch
*steels lambswool*

 

[Agayek]

You do know the term, "gimmicky controls" is a statement that the gaming community recognizes as, "I have never played the game and cannot find a legitimate fault in it".
We know when Wii haters are full of shit.

"Gimmicky controls" is a statement referring to a control scheme centered around one particular feature that contributes nothing but allows the creator to say "look at us, we've used !".

That's exactly what Skyward Sword is. I bought the game thinking it was going to be done well, because Mario Galaxy, Okami, and Red Steel all did motion controls well.

Skyward Sword did not. The sword attacks were finicky and hard to aim properly, the controls for flying the bird were ridiculous at best, and the falling controls were even worse. I'm sure there's a few more issues with it too, but I can't remember the game well enough to say.

The game would have been infinitely better if they had allowed for the use of a Gamecube controller.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Oh ok, so when you said 'modern gamers unimpressed by Miyamoto' you actually meant 'I don't like Miyamoto and I now represent all modern gamers because of reasons'. Just so we're clear ^_^

CAN I GET AN 'AMEN'!?

 

[RedDeadFred]

Yay, another Nintendo hater passing off his idiotic dislike of sweet games as market analysis.

Shut up guys, seriously. You hate Nintendo, but they are a corporation that has been around much longer than you think. And they will out live you.

He has an opinion that is different from yours so you tell him to shut up. Classy...

A better approach might be to make a counter argument and then back it up with some points to help validate it.

Are you new to the internet or something? Every single person who ever existed, or ever will exist (I'm looking at you Abraham Lincoln's clone!) knows what using a constructive argument against a Nintendo hater gets.
More idiocy.

I don't see how them not listening to your reason means you have to lower yourself to their level...

 

[Keoul]

So the crux of the matter is that you're doing a cross comparison between who Mario started his career in 1981, to MW2 which was released in 2009 and then whining that in the time since those initial releases MW has changed less then Mario.
Well congratulations Captain Retard your work here is done, have a gold star.

It's laughable how you can attempt to mock MW's plot and yet defend Mario at the same time, I cant even bring myself to go into the depths of stupidity that must take.

The "crux" of the matter is that Nintendo has basically paved the way for video games, Mario going from 2d platformer to 2d rpg is innovative, the controls were different, different story, different looks, Varied environments, EVERYTHING WAS DIFFERENT FROM A TRADITIONAL MARIO GAME except the original cast of characters! And just remember that mario didn't have any competitors, there was no competition for 2d platformers, yes there was other 2d rpgs but they couldn't even compare to Superstar Saga, at best they were Final Fantasy clones.

Now let's look at COD hmm? Made later than mario, still looked worse than other games of it's era (though this is entirely my opinion, I compared it to mass effect released 2007, a whole 2 years before COD). Then there's the fact that barely anything changes in the games, you shoot people. They even stole ideas from their competitors (Battlefield Series) when they ran out of ideas, Vehicles in MW2 is an example of that.

Please learn to argue, provide valid points instead of straw man arguements. You haven't given a single valid point or reasoning this entire time, just mocking me for what I can only assume to be Fanboy Rage.

Sure those sprites were considerably better then the original, they also look exactly like everything you'd expect to see in a Mario game, that is not innovation.

-.- you are just the worst, new art styles are innovative look at tf2 with it's cell-shaded visuals and compare that to the shitty "realistic" art style that was all the hype at the time.

 

[Zeh Don]

Miyamoto is one of the most important game developers in history. And this is coming from someone who's not owned a Nintendo console since the Nintendo 64.

Like gaming with polygons? Thank Miyamoto for making it work in a way that didn't want to make you rip out your fucking eyes.

Like big budget open world games? Thank Miyamoto for wondering: what happens if we let the player do things in whatever order they want?

Like analogue stick controls? Thank Miyamoto for asking for them when making Super Mario 64.

Like touch screen gaming? Thank Miyamoto for suggesting it when his hardware teams were desinging the DS.

Like consoles? Thank Miyamoto for being able to make Super Mario Bros. succeed despite the games crash just years prior.

The list goes on. He's why Nintendo is able to still make more money from their consoles than Sony and Microsoft combined. What he doesn't do, however, is make God of War, Call of Duty, Halo and other over-serious games.

To say Modern Gamers are unimpressed is basically saying: "Call of Duty Fans don't like Mario or Zelda, NINTENROFL". Because the Wii has sold more than the PS3 and XB360 combined, thanks largely to Nintendo's lead designer.

When Miyamoto dies or retires, he'll take Nintendo with him.

 

[Keoul]

this is a point that not often gets brought up
granted, they usually revolve around the main Mario games, but they disregard the RPGs as if they didn't exist
the RPGs of Mario all have not only different strong stories, but also tend to stray away from the "norm"
like how in Super Mario RPG you save Peach very early and then she joins your party to go after the real villain
know what I mean? =P

-sniff- I will miss those awesome mario rpgs :c
wish more people knew about them.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Nnnno, not really. Don't get me wrong - I'm happy that you loved his stuff, I am. But what if I said to you, "Michael Bay, working in the film industry, probably knows more about film than you or I"? Does that sound like a good argument? He might know more about things like "how to shoot film" and "how to market film"... but film in general?

This is going to hurt for me to say, but, Michael Bay knows more about making movies than I do, and unless you're really Ron Howard or James Cameron in disguise, I bet he knows more than you as well. He makes movies that for me waver between passable and abysmal, but if someone handed me $200,000,000 and said 'Make me a movie' wouldn't know where to fucking begin. He went to school, he did the shit jobs, earned himself a rep and made himself reliable and bankable. So whether we think he's talented (and I get the feeling we both think he lacks that), he's directed many movies, and all gave their investors significant returns which is ultimately what they want. I would be so fucking lost on a film set I'd probably be fit only to make the tea. So, bust out your IMDB profile, education credentials and recommendations because that's the only way I'm gonna accept your assertion that you know more than Michael Bay......even if I think he's a hack.

By the way, if that pic from Modern Warfare you posted was from in game, I'll eat my hat because I played MW1, MW2 and MW3 and I do not remember a single frame of those games looking that good. I remember them looking pretty damn good on my PC, but not like that.

 

[Syzygy23]

Um while I do agree that he rehashed old stuff over and over, it's always good quality so who cares

Would you eat your favorite food every day to the exclusion of all other possible foods for 10-15 years?

Stagnation is a terrible thing, it prevents growth and evolution.

Like gaming with polygons? Thank Miyamoto for making it work in a way that didn't want to make you rip out your fucking eyes.

Yes

Like big budget open world games? Thank Miyamoto for wondering: what happens if we let the player do things in whatever order they want?

You sure you aren't thinking about Rockstar or Bethesda? Since when has there ever been a truly open world game developed by a Japanese company?

Like analogue stick controls? Thank Miyamoto for asking for them when making Super Mario 64.

No, I prefer a mouse and keyboard.

Like touch screen gaming? Thank Miyamoto for suggesting it when his hardware teams were desinging the DS.

No, my hand and the stylus always got in the way of the action on my DS screen, I hated it.

Like consoles? Thank Miyamoto for being able to make Super Mario Bros. succeed despite the games crash just years prior.

No, I prefer PC.

The list goes on. He's why Nintendo is able to still make more money from their consoles than Sony and Microsoft combined. What he doesn't do, however, is make God of War, Call of Duty, Halo and other over-serious games.

Was God of War supposed to be taken seriously? It was basically a game about a non-green Hulk with chain swords I thought, no way anyone could take that seriously. Can't speak for CoD since I've only played it once and found it boring, and Halo... is just Halo, nothing too silly or over serious there.

To say Modern Gamers are unimpressed is basically saying: "Call of Duty Fans don't like Mario or Zelda, NINTENROFL". Because the Wii has sold more than the PS3 and XB360 combined, thanks largely to Nintendo's lead designer.

And the Wii was a gimmicky piece of shit that had, what, maybe 9 games worth playing quickly followed by nothing but shovelware consisting of either broken ass controls, terrible graphics or stupid party game collections.

Also, what, no mention of any OTHER genre or game besides CoD? No Elder Scrolls? Grand Theft Autos? Fallouts? Heavy Rains? Burnout Revenges? Portal 1 and 2s? Left 4 deads? Binding of Isaacs?

Way to put words in our mouths and completely misrepresent our position. There's a word for that, something about scarecrows or straw...

When Miyamoto dies or retires, he'll take Nintendo with him.

Or maybe somebody not stuck in the past will take over and breathe new life in Nintendo.

 

[Dryk]

It's funny, over the last six months or so I've played Doom, Doom II, Master Levels for Doom II and I'm currently playing Final Doom. I also played Call of Duty, Call of Duty 2 and a few years ago Call of Duty 4. I'm finding Doom better to be honest, not to say I'm not having fun with Call of Duty (although not unlike ME2 you can see some of the crappy things about the later games starting to seep in with CoD2).

And frankly, every multi-player FPS since Halo has had minimal changes (Pokemon is an apt comparison.)

You can't really call the changes in Pokemon to be 'minimal'. Even putting aside things like every subsequent generation adding at least 100 new Pokemon and several new moves:

Red and Blue started it.
Gold and Silver added Held Items, Gender, Breeding, Shinies, Real-Time-Based Events, Day/Night cycles, and split the single Special stat into Special Attack and Special Defense.
Ruby and Sapphire added Natures, Abilities, Weather Effects, Contests, and completely revamped the IV/EV system from the prior generations. Emerald went even further with additional refinements to Breeding.
Diamond and Pearl added Global Trading, further refined Breeding, and introduced the Physical/Special split, where individual attacks could be Physical or Special, instead of that being determined solely by their Type.
Black and White added Seasons, gave even more refinement to Breeding, and turned TMs from one-time-use items into reusable items.

There are probably some more that I can't think of at the moment, but each Pokemon game has built on and drastically changed and improved the ones that came before. Can you say that about many other franchises?

You forgot the mini-games... although I still haven't forgiven them for replacing contests, which is my opinion is the last time those main mini-games have been any good. But even then that list doesn't really fly off the page at me, a lot of those points seem pretty weak.

Skyward Sword was a potentially excellent game, with a good amount (for a Zelda title) of new ideas, that was utterly ruined by a godawful and gimicky control scheme. Anyone that actually liked the game is provably wrong.

The flying and bowling controls were crap yes, and using the Wii Motion Plus to move the cursor was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. But I found the sword controls to be excellent and I thought they really added to the game.

 

[lordlillen]

I don't know who Miyamoto is am I a bad person?

your gaming card give it to me.
miyamoto is the head of nintendo and the creator of mario and zelda to name a few.

 

[lordlillen]

I don't know who (Generic Japanese Name) is. I know he has something to do with Nintendo...but I don't care

you dont know who shigero miyamoto is? the head of nintendo creator of mario zelda and probably the most famous video game creator in history?

 

[Toby Kitching]

Um while I do agree that he rehashed old stuff over and over, it's always good quality so who cares

I know it's been two days, but I HAD to quote this.

You use that excuse for nintendo franchises, but I bet you hate CoD for that exact reason. It pisses me off that miyamoto gets all this credit and gets called the greatest living game dev and all this when he never seems to make anything new. It's like how notch made one game and now everyone looks at him to find out what their opinions should be about anything.

/Rant

OT: yeah, i kinda agree. Tad ranty for my tastes though

/Hypocrisy

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I don't like him or any of Nintendo's franchises that they seem hell bent on reselling every few years. At the same time its not his fault people are dumb enough to shell out more cash for the same game over and over again.
I wouldn't aim for a good game if I got more money from selling Mario 5 times.

 

[pure.Wasted]

This is going to hurt for me to say, but, Michael Bay knows more about making movies than I do, and unless you're really Ron Howard or James Cameron in disguise, I bet he knows more than you as well. He makes movies that for me waver between passable and abysmal, but if someone handed me $200,000,000 and said 'Make me a movie' wouldn't know where to fucking begin. He went to school, he did the shit jobs, earned himself a rep and made himself reliable and bankable. So whether we think he's talented (and I get the feeling we both think he lacks that), he's directed many movies, and all gave their investors significant returns which is ultimately what they want. I would be so fucking lost on a film set I'd probably be fit only to make the tea. So, bust out your IMDB profile, education credentials and recommendations because that's the only way I'm gonna accept your assertion that you know more than Michael Bay......even if I think he's a hack.

Hey, I don't disagree! If our main concern was hiring a director with experience to film a movie, Michael Bay over you or me 100 times out of 100. Absolutely. Same goes for Miyamoto and physically producing games.

But that's not really what the conversation is about. We're talking about whether these people understand games. Not the process of making them, but playing them, what we as gamers can get out of our games. This is as much about experience* as it is about introspective analysis, and I feel like there are plenty of amateurs out there who might have him beat on both counts. If he said "it takes 100 visual effects artists one week to create a single level in a game these days," I would have to take that at face value (unless I were prepared to do research and verify). But he's not. He's talking about the state of games as a medium of expression and entertainment, and I don't know that he's qualified to make such a judgment, especially in light of the blatant hypocrisy with the mentor of the founder of Pokemon, of all things, being disappointed with where gaming has gone.

*Playing, not creating; and I honestly don't know who's played a wider variety of games, Miyamoto or myself or you. Has he spent hours playing competitive RTS games, or played through the single player campaigns of modern shooters just to FEEL for himself what they're up to these days? I can't say that he hasn't, but I do wonder.

By the way, if that pic from Modern Warfare you posted was from in game, I'll eat my hat because I played MW1, MW2 and MW3 and I do not remember a single frame of those games looking that good. I remember them looking pretty damn good on my PC, but not like that.

It's actually from the PC version of BF3, single player. My apologies for not specifying.

I don't really see a need to distinguish between specific IPs for the purpose of this conversation, considering how much games within a genre tend to bounce ideas off one another. That's why for the sake of this argument I do consider MW3 to be, essentially, Doom 500. If we were talking about JRPGs, I'd be perfectly willing to extend them the same courtesy and consider any innovations from, say, FF1 through Persona 4.

 

[Torrasque]

He's been coasting on nostalgia ever since there were video games old enough to be nostalgic about.

I'm sure these 5 pages of comments are people telling you how wrong you are, so I'll try to be brief and just address this one bit.

Have you noticed that most gamers period have been coasting on those good old games for the last 12 years? If anything, I'd say modern gamers are unimpressed by Miyamoto the same way that kids these days think that Skrillex and LMFAO are the pinnacle of music.

 

[Torrasque]

I would like to see them do a Trine-esque Zelda. You've got three people linked together by a powerful force, use it! Link is a jack-of-all-trades medium fighter with little magic skill, relying on his bag of tricks to augment his fighting skills. Ganon's a brute force heavy fighter with some magic skill. Zelda's a light fighter with skill in magic, specializing in long range combat. Have puzzles tailored to using each of their skills.

Have Demise resurrected, where we find that Ganon was a pawn in his schemes. Ganon goes all "I AM NOT YOUR PAWN!!!" and joins forces with Link and Zelda.

That'd actually be a really good, balanced mechanic. They'd be different combat wise and in puzzles. Like, Link and Zelda could both have bows, but where Links can just shoot down keese and hit eye targets, Zelda has access to fir/ice/light arrows. Link and Ganon both have swords, but Ganon's is heavier and more powerful where Link strikes with more speed and accuracy. Zelda might effortlessly melt a frozen target, but be useless against a giant stone wall that Ganon simply smashes right through. Brilliant idea, dude.

captcha: half inch
*steels lambswool*

I am really ok with this game idea.

Story-wise, Ganon could join forces with Link and Zelda grudgingly--sort of a "I really don't want to, but I have no other choice" dealy--and while Link and Zelda are trying to save the land, Ganon just wants his power back. At certain points of the game, one of the three is possessed by some kind of power (or Ganon is just being a dick) and the other two must free them from this power. Link could be captured and you must go through a dungeon without his combat and puzzle skills to fight Shadow Link at the end. Zelda could be ensnared by an ancient dark magic, and you must beat the dark magic out of her without harming her; this is where Link and Ganon's small magical skill would come into play. Ganon could see a moment to seize a lot of power, and Link and Zelda must show him the error of their ways.
Through all of these challenges, the character relationships would develop (especially Ganon's character) and you would see that Ganon is not that bad of a guy, Link has fears too, and Zelda isn't that wise.

...I really want to start working on this right now

Also would have to add in Sheik. She could be the stealth character!